Ireland vs Scotland (part of Irish team)

First topic message reminder :

I know someone who was in camp with the Irish team for the last week, talked to him and seen his pics and from what I am aware, the team will look something like this

-Flannery-
-
-Leamy??-
Boss-Sexton
Wallace-McFadden
Fitzgerald-Kearney-Trimble

Don't know props, locks or flankers, but I have seen a lot of Court at 3, Cullen has been heavily involved, so too has Ryan.

Leamy will play don't know if 6 or 8 but would imagine 8 as I've seen McLaughlin a lot in the pics doing team runs.
Jones will get game time?
Murray will bench if TOL can't get over a small niggle in time.

Can people piece together more bits? Happy with that much of the team??

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Not saying that at all, or saying that that is what Rodders is saying, Sexton is much better at getting backs moving than ROG though as he attacks the gain line far more, draws in defenders and this creates space in the midfield for centres, or blind side wingers.

My point would be that when the pack are not on top with Sexton playing (Magners Final for instance), Sexton can be just as ineffective as O'Gara getting his backs moving. Most of Leinster's creative play actually come from Nacewa counter attacking anyway. Other than that its Leinster forwards bashing their way through.

I wonder how creative Sexton would seem if he had the Munster backline that O'Gara was working with up to 2008?

"One of your posts seems to indicate that Sexton is the man to put our backs into space. Just because ROG isn't a running out half doesn't mean he can't create space for others."

100% true, Sexton is jsut better at it than ROG is, doesn't mean ROG can't do it, isn't good at it or anything of that nature but Sexton is better at it

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:"One of your posts seems to indicate that Sexton is the man to put our backs into space. Just because ROG isn't a running out half doesn't mean he can't create space for others."

100% true, Sexton is jsut better at it than ROG is, doesn't mean ROG can't do it, isn't good at it or anything of that nature but Sexton is better at it

So, how many tries has Tommy Bowe scored by Sexton putting him into space?

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Not saying that at all, or saying that that is what Rodders is saying, Sexton is much better at getting backs moving than ROG though as he attacks the gain line far more, draws in defenders and this creates space in the midfield for centres, or blind side wingers.

My point would be that when the pack are not on top with Sexton playing (Magners Final for instance), Sexton can be just as ineffective as O'Gara getting his backs moving. Most of Leinster's creative play actually come from Nacewa counter attacking anyway. Other than that its Leinster forwards bashing their way through.

I wonder how creative Sexton would seem if he had the Munster backline that O'Gara was working with up to 2008?

In that situation, I wouldn't be worried about his creativeness... Id be more worried about his sanity...

Munster never really had a "backline" as such. We call them outside forwards

Thomond wrote:One of your posts seems to indicate that Sexton is the man to put our backs into space. Just because ROG isn't a running out half doesn't mean he can't create space for others.

He does let defences drift though. He does like to sit further back in the pocket. He's not an aggressive player.

I was pleased to see him try to run the ball a bit more in the Six Nations. It's always frustrated me watching O'Gara- his whole career, he's been a kind of timid outhalf in attack- but he seemed to try and rise to the challenge laid down by Sexton at times.

Sin é wrote:
So, how many tries has Tommy Bowe scored by Sexton putting him into space?

Well I can think of two of the top of my head. The one for Bowe in Landsdowne this season and the one at twickenham last year.

That really awesome turnover, dummy then kick through! Boom!

Notch wrote:

Thomond wrote:One of your posts seems to indicate that Sexton is the man to put our backs into space. Just because ROG isn't a running out half doesn't mean he can't create space for others.

He does let defences drift though. He does like to sit further back in the pocket. He's not an aggressive player.

I was pleased to see him try to run the ball a bit more in the Six Nations. It's always frustrated me watching O'Gara- his whole career, he's been a kind of timid outhalf in attack- but he seemed to try and rise to the challenge laid down by Sexton at times.

Thats called playing to your strengths and the laws of the game suited that strategy. Still, he has an excellent trying scoring record for a non-breaking OH.

Carter 29 tries;
Wilko 7
Neil Jenkins 11
Diego Dominguez 9
Ronan O'Gara 16
Stephen Jones 7
David Humphreys 6

One thing I've noticed about Stephen Jones for instance who would be regarded as a breaking outhalf - he gets turned over very easily when he makes his breaks.

Lads, yer all chooned in yeah? 5 minutes to mayhem.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/index/index/id/8871

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

Thomond wrote:One of your posts seems to indicate that Sexton is the man to put our backs into space. Just because ROG isn't a running out half doesn't mean he can't create space for others.

He does let defences drift though. He does like to sit further back in the pocket. He's not an aggressive player.

I was pleased to see him try to run the ball a bit more in the Six Nations. It's always frustrated me watching O'Gara- his whole career, he's been a kind of timid outhalf in attack- but he seemed to try and rise to the challenge laid down by Sexton at times.

Thats called playing to your strengths and the laws of the game suited that strategy.

Oh, I've no problem with it. if this was 2009 and I'd have zero support for Sexton over ROG. But the emphasis has changed now hasn't it?

Sin é wrote:Thats called playing to your strengths and the laws of the game suited that strategy. Still, he has an excellent trying scoring record for a non-breaking OH.

It's interesting Sin that no one other than you has called O'Gara a "non-breaking OH". I think you are arguing with yourself here and not really reading what other people are posting.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:Thats called playing to your strengths and the laws of the game suited that strategy. Still, he has an excellent trying scoring record for a non-breaking OH.

It's interesting Sin that no one other than you has called O'Gara a "non-breaking OH". I think you are arguing with yourself here and not really reading what other people are posting.

opps, sorry, I misunderstood, I took non-aggressive, timid to mean 'non-breaking.' Would you know what Notch meant?

He does let defences drift though. He does like to sit further back in the pocket. He's not an aggressive player.

I was pleased to see him try to run the ball a bit more in the Six Nations. It's always frustrated me watching O'Gara- his whole career, he's been a kind of timid outhalf in attack- but he seemed to try and rise to the challenge laid down by Sexton at times.

What I mean is, it's not his style of game to attack the gainline which would create space for the centres. He's not that style of player.

He has shown he can play that game at times in his career, but by and large he prefers to sit back in the pocket and pull the strings.

Sin é wrote:
opps, sorry, I misunderstood, I took non-aggressive, timid to mean 'non-breaking.' Would you know what Notch meant?

Well it sounds like Notch was calling him a wimp but I suppose it's open to interpretation....

Notch wrote:What I mean is, it's not his style of game to attack the gainline which would create space for the centres. He's not that style of player.

He has shown he can play that game at times in his career, but by and large he prefers to sit back in the pocket and pull the strings.

Eh? And there was I thinking that Brian O'Driscoll (a centre) was the top tryscoring centre of all time with 45 tries! Comparable to Tana Umaga who scored 36 tries in 73 starts for New Zealand even.

Maybe BOD prefers O'Gara pulling the strings which let him get on with scoring the tries.


Still for a timid attacker, he does have a decent enough tryscoring record for an OH.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
opps, sorry, I misunderstood, I took non-aggressive, timid to mean 'non-breaking.' Would you know what Notch meant?

Well it sounds like Notch was calling him a wimp but I suppose it's open to interpretation....

I notice he is not denying it I've heard of OHs being called 'wimps' in defence, but an OH 'wimp' in attack is a new one

Why would I deny it Sin? Sure it would wind you up and provide hours of fun

I've also said that I was pleased to see O'Gara attack the gainline in the Six Nations, and made reference to the points in his career when he has attacked very well. Particularly the 2007 Six Nations which I believe he finished top try scorer in.

I'm making reference to his preferred style of game, which is at odds with the style of game I believe Ireland will gain most success employing. That's all.

Go ahead and continue imagine I'm throwing some sort of dig tough, if it makes you happy.

By the way, Brian O'Driscoll was a very special player. Scored a lot of ridiculously good individual tries plus finished off a lot of good team tries. He made a lot of the players around him look very good.

There's a certain lack of insight to that argument Sin.

Notch wrote:Why would I deny it Sin? Sure it would wind you up and provide hours of fun

I've also said that I was pleased to see O'Gara attack the gainline in the Six Nations, and made reference to the points in his career when he has attacked very well. Particularly the 2007 Six Nations which I believe he finished top try scorer in.

I'm making reference to his preferred style of game, which is at odds with the style of game I believe Ireland will gain most success employing. That's all.

Go ahead and continue imagine I'm throwing some sort of dig tough, if it makes you happy.

Not worried about you denying it Notch, just making it clear to the rest of your internet buddies that I wasn't putting words in your mouth

I missed the reference to the 2007 6Ns somehow, but now that you mention it, thats a good one to mention because BOD wasn't at his best fitness wise and he missed the French game through injury and voilá, ROG is top tryscorer of the 6Ns.

I'd say his captain and coach has a fair bit to say in where he stands.

"By the way, Brian O'Driscoll was a very special player. Scored a lot of ridiculously good individual tries plus finished off a lot of good team tries. He made a lot of the players around him look very good.

There's a certain lack of insight to that argument Sin."

So there is a good possibility that BOD makes Sexton look good also?

I'd say Umaga, Smith, Nonu etc. are fairly decent players and with Dan Carter who is a very special player outside them putting them into space, they should have 10 times the number of tries BOD has.