Ireland vs Scotland (part of Irish team)

First topic message reminder :

I know someone who was in camp with the Irish team for the last week, talked to him and seen his pics and from what I am aware, the team will look something like this

-Flannery-
-
-Leamy??-
Boss-Sexton
Wallace-McFadden
Fitzgerald-Kearney-Trimble

Don't know props, locks or flankers, but I have seen a lot of Court at 3, Cullen has been heavily involved, so too has Ryan.

Leamy will play don't know if 6 or 8 but would imagine 8 as I've seen McLaughlin a lot in the pics doing team runs.
Jones will get game time?
Murray will bench if TOL can't get over a small niggle in time.

Can people piece together more bits? Happy with that much of the team??

Mickado wrote:
If it’s no bad reflection on them then what’s your point?

With BOD around, it might have been a win - all based on BOD=GOD and the longstanding centre partnership of BOD/D'Arcy

(I wasn't having a go at any of them for losing game as it does happen- they can only do their best).

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:ROG doesn't bring anything in terms of leadership that Sexton doesn't.

I'd disagree with that - its a very different kind of leadership. ROG brings the "I've been there and done it all before, it'll be ok" kind of leadership. Sexton can't offer that. He has another type. Still would start Sexton though.

Except ROG hasn't done anything Sexton hasn't, he just thinks he has.

Do you really think that?

No not really stag. Sin has wound me up so much with his nonsensical argument that I've started talking total rubbish myself.....

Ah just don't argue Munster players with Sin and you'll be fine

red_stag wrote:

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:But Sin, its like saying we shouldn't try Keatley at 10 against La Rochelle as he has no experience with Danny Barnes and Duncan Williams.

There is no similarity between Scotland and La Rochelle

Don;t be so flipping mean to la Rochelle. No need to make that comparison

No one from La Rochelle on these boards

Yeah I'd agree with defence I have to say not necessarily cos either centre are bad at it but because darcy/BOD are just so good at it. The difference in speed would be huge.

Yeah Stag it would be, I'd quite like to see it I have to say and with Trimble running hard off his wing and Fitz looking for offloads (hopefully he will grab the ball) this could be quite a tasty backline.

Wish I knew more about the pack

mcFadden's outside break coupled with Wallace's distribution could be quite lethal

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:ROG doesn't bring anything in terms of leadership that Sexton doesn't.

I'd disagree with that - its a very different kind of leadership. ROG brings the "I've been there and done it all before, it'll be ok" kind of leadership. Sexton can't offer that. He has another type. Still would start Sexton though.

Except ROG hasn't done anything Sexton hasn't, he just thinks he has.

Do you really think that?

No not really stag. Sin has wound me up so much with his nonsensical argument that I've started talking total rubbish myself.....

Rodders, I'm sorry you don't get my logic (I must be the Alan Quinlan of 606 for getting people wound up even though I don't try Must be something in the Tipperary Water. )

You'd imagine if resting front liners is the key that Court, Flannery, Buckley in front row with Horan on the bench will be the order of business. Flannery back from injury. The others haven't been swamped with gametime for their province.

Lock is hard to call. Maybe the forgotten man Mick O'Driscoll along with any of the others.

Backrow - Leamy along with McLaughlin and Henry probably.

That would be a very very poor pack.

I'd make a guess at Court-Fla-Buckley/Hayes

Second rows: eek, eh well Ryan anyway he needs to be there. I saw Cullen in the (1st team) training team. Don't see how he could be included though if others aren't, then again Fitz is in there too.

Possibly
McLaughlin-Leamy-Henry

Jennings isn't ready yet is he?

And yes it would be a very poor pack.

red_stag wrote:And if he picks both (as Pete is suggesting) it is one of the trademarked Declan Kidney left field solutions up there with picking Denis Hurley and Tomas O'Leary for the knockout stages in 2008.

Who was the OH that day

It wasn't their first game with that team though. And they had been training together for a few months beforehand, not a week.

Sin é wrote:

Rodders, I'm sorry you don't get my logic (I must be the Alan Quinlan of 606 for getting people wound up even though I don't try Must be something in the Tipperary Water. )

Your a while man sin! I give up!

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote: Sexton will be more experienced at that stage as well. Bear in mind his 12 starts (and 4 appearances from the bench) doesn't make him a hugely experienced international when you compare him to Toby Flood with 37 caps (not all as the pressurised OH position) and they are both the same age.

Toby Flood doesn't have two HEC winners medals does he?

No, but he does have a win over Australia in Australia

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote: Sexton will be more experienced at that stage as well. Bear in mind his 12 starts (and 4 appearances from the bench) doesn't make him a hugely experienced international when you compare him to Toby Flood with 37 caps (not all as the pressurised OH position) and they are both the same age.

Toby Flood doesn't have two HEC winners medals does he?

No, but he does have a win over Australia in Australia

No, but does ROG?

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote: Sexton will be more experienced at that stage as well. Bear in mind his 12 starts (and 4 appearances from the bench) doesn't make him a hugely experienced international when you compare him to Toby Flood with 37 caps (not all as the pressurised OH position) and they are both the same age.

Toby Flood doesn't have two HEC winners medals does he?

No, but he does have a win over Australia in Australia

No, but does ROG?

No, but at least he has a few wins over Australia. Does that suggest that Heineken Cup rugby is at a level below international rugby?

Pete, according to the newspapers, O'Gara (& Tainton, Ireland's kicking coach) was coaching Kildare gaelic team last weekend.

Sin-

So?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sin-

So?

Is he not meant to be injured - surely he should be catching up on his fitness?

Sin é wrote:
No, but at least he has a few wins over Australia. Does that suggest that Heineken Cup rugby is at a level below international rugby?

It suggests Australia haven't played Ireland at home since 2009.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sin-

So?

Is he not meant to be injured - surely he should be catching up on his fitness?

They take days off Sin to do anything they want, be it golf, skydiving or to coach teams.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sin-

So?

Is he not meant to be injured - surely he should be catching up on his fitness?

They take days off Sin to do anything they want, be it golf, skydiving or to coach teams.

Skydiving - seriously?

Since O'Gara has a calf injury, surely he would be resting it when not training. He would have to demonstrate technique if coaching.

From the sounds here, his leg seems to be hanging off.

Which reminds me - last week someone posted that D'Arcy had annoyed the Ireland management by going off on holidays and not having his operation first.

It turns out, that the medical people advised him to wait until after his holidays to have the operation (according to Paul McNaughton in Irish Times) as they didn't think he needed one.

Just want to clear his name with regard to this as he was getting a bit of stick for it.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
No, but at least he has a few wins over Australia. Does that suggest that Heineken Cup rugby is at a level below international rugby?

It suggests Australia haven't played Ireland at home since 2009.

Still, a home win is not as good as an away win against Australia. You can't take that away from Flood (who at the same age as Sexton, has both).

Sin é wrote:
Still, a home win is not as good as an away win against Australia. You can't take that away from Flood (who at the same age as Sexton, has both).

Well if Sexton hasn't played against them at home then he's not likely to get a home win is he? No one in the Irish team has an away win so maybe none of them are good enough including ROG???

Skydiving is great craic!

And why would he have to show them, he could have been giving a talk while the kicking coach did the actual kicking, or maybe his legs are grand while kicking but not when running.

Nit-picking Sin

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Still, a home win is not as good as an away win against Australia. You can't take that away from Flood (who at the same age as Sexton, has both).

Well if Sexton hasn't played against them at home then he's not likely to get a home win is he? No one in the Irish team has an away win so maybe none of them are good enough including ROG???

Look, I know you despise O'Gara as a player and as a person, so I'm not going to argue with you about him.

I do think that Flood has achieved more internationally than Sexton - 6Ns championship and home and away win over Australia for starters and both are of a similar age with similar (aging) competition internationally.

But Sin why the comparison with Englishman, Toby Flood. That has NOTHING to do with a trial match on Saturday.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:"they decided to kick the points rather than go for the scrum and would have scored a try"

How can you be so sure Sin. That is a ridiculous thing to say

Just spotted this when looking for something else!

5 metres from Munster's line and Munster down a lock! As good a chance as Sexton getting the 3pts with his boot.

red_stag wrote:But Sin why the comparison with Englishman, Toby Flood. That has NOTHING to do with a trial match on Saturday.

I only mentioned the Englishman in the context of comparing their international OH experience. Rodders went further!

Sin é wrote: Sexton will be more experienced at that stage as well. Bear in mind his 12 starts (and 4 appearances from the bench) doesn't make him a hugely experienced international when you compare him to Toby Flood with 37 caps (not all as the pressurised OH position) and they are both the same age.

rodders wrote:Toby Flood doesn't have two HEC winners medals does he?

Sin I don't know O'Gara as a person and I certainly don't despise him as a player. In fact I rate him very highly as a player and I think you know this. I just happen to think that Sexton brings much more to the table for Ireland given the dynamics of the team and the skill sets they both have.

I don't have any problem with O'Gara starting against Scotland, I just don't agree with your arguments to why he should. I would prefer to see Sexton play though.

Toby Flood has nothing to do with anything.

Sin é wrote:Which reminds me - last week someone posted that D'Arcy had annoyed the Ireland management by going off on holidays and not having his operation first.

It turns out, that the medical people advised him to wait until after his holidays to have the operation (according to Paul McNaughton in Irish Times) as they didn't think he needed one.

Just want to clear his name with regard to this as he was getting a bit of stick for it.

Wow Ireland manager defends player in public, shocker! What on earth was he expected to say - that they were annoyed with him?

roddersm wrote:Sin I don't know O'Gara as a person and I certainly don't despise him as a player. In fact I rate him very highly as a player and I think you know this. I just happen to think that Sexton brings much more to the table for Ireland given the dynamics of the team and the skill sets they both have.

I don't have any problem with O'Gara starting against Scotland, I just don't agree with your arguments to why he should. I would prefer to see Sexton play though.

Toby Flood has nothing to do with anything.

You keep saying you rate him as a player, but then you keep criticising him and having cheap digs - it just doesn't add up to you rating him as a player.

Up to now, Sexton has been very inconsistent and has played about 2/3 good games at international level. He has played very well for Leinster, but he has not brought that consistency to his international game just yet.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Sin é wrote:Which reminds me - last week someone posted that D'Arcy had annoyed the Ireland management by going off on holidays and not having his operation first.

It turns out, that the medical people advised him to wait until after his holidays to have the operation (according to Paul McNaughton in Irish Times) as they didn't think he needed one.

Just want to clear his name with regard to this as he was getting a bit of stick for it.

Wow Ireland manager defends player in public, shocker! What on earth was he expected to say - that they were annoyed with him?

McNaughton was more having a go at the medics at getting the diagnosis wrong than defending D'Arcy.

Just someone 'in the know' here claimed that the Ireland management were annoyed with D'Arcy because because he decided to go on his holidays rather than have his operation first. That is not the case as it was the medics who decided when the operation went ahead.

Sin é wrote:
You keep saying you rate him as a player, but then you keep criticising him and having cheap digs - it just doesn't add up to you rating him as a player.

Can you point out some of these 'cheap digs' Sin? It is possible to rate a player but feel that someone else is better. For example I rate Leo Cullen very highly but wouldn't select him ahead of POC. I rate Shane Jennings but wouldn't pick him ahead of David Wallace. I think you take these things too personally sin.

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Still, a home win is not as good as an away win against Australia. You can't take that away from Flood (who at the same age as Sexton, has both).

Well if Sexton hasn't played against them at home then he's not likely to get a home win is he? No one in the Irish team has an away win so maybe none of them are good enough including ROG???

Look, I know you despise O'Gara as a player and as a person, so I'm not going to argue with you about him.

Do you seriously believe that?

Just seen the report on the BBC NI news there. Ferris looks pretty fit to me! By the sounds of it he could feature against France.

Just because someone thinks another player is better... jeez, Sin, Johnny Sexton is our first choice 10 for a reason. O'Gara still has a big role to play.

Not this week in all probability. Being as he's not fully match fit. But I expect he will play a big role in the next three games.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
You keep saying you rate him as a player, but then you keep criticising him and having cheap digs - it just doesn't add up to you rating him as a player.

Can you point out some of these 'cheap digs' Sin? It is possible to rate a player but feel that someone else is better. For example I rate Leo Cullen very highly but wouldn't select him ahead of POC. I rate Shane Jennings but wouldn't pick him ahead of David Wallace. I think you take these things too personally sin.

No comparison between these examples. POC & Wallace have the 70+ caps to prove that they are regarded as better players.

I'm not taking it personally rodders, just bored with the "I rate ROG BUT ... " line that it trotted out by you regularly, then claiming that Sexton has done everything that ROG has done is just mind boggling. And you probably believe it!

Seen the same thing rodders, France game 28th August they are saying Ferris 'should' play a role in.

Notch wrote:Just because someone thinks another player is better... jeez, Sin, Johnny Sexton is our first choice 10 for a reason. O'Gara still has a big role to play.

Not this week in all probability. Being as he's not fully match fit. But I expect he will play a big role in the next three games.

Notch, I doubt very much if Kidney has a first or second choice OH - not based on one good game in the last year anyway.

I also doubt if O'Gara got a two year international contract to warm the bench.

Anyway, these are warmup games, so they all have to get gametime. As first choice, surely Sexton would be better off getting gametime against France & England away.

McNaughton mentioned Jennings, Ferris & BOD as not being in contention. Why didn't he include ROG in that list as well if he isn't fit?

Sin é wrote:
I'm not taking it personally rodders, just bored with the "I rate ROG BUT ... " line that it trotted out by you regularly, then claiming that Sexton has done everything that ROG has done is just mind boggling. And you probably believe it!

Sin I've already said that I was wrong to say Sexton had achieved everything ROG had. I'm not sure how any of that equates to "despising rog as a person and player" or "cheap digs"?

Dodger you have to take the bbc ni reports with a pinch of salt but certainly Ferris looked in pretty good nick in those clips!

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
You keep saying you rate him as a player, but then you keep criticising him and having cheap digs - it just doesn't add up to you rating him as a player.

Can you point out some of these 'cheap digs' Sin? It is possible to rate a player but feel that someone else is better. For example I rate Leo Cullen very highly but wouldn't select him ahead of POC. I rate Shane Jennings but wouldn't pick him ahead of David Wallace. I think you take these things too personally sin.

No comparison between these examples. POC & Wallace have the 70+ caps to prove that they are regarded as better players.

I'm not taking it personally rodders, just bored with the "I rate ROG BUT ... " line that it trotted out by you regularly, then claiming that Sexton has done everything that ROG has done is just mind boggling. And you probably believe it!

There's a case for experience. But let's not judge ROG on his past alone. Head to head, I think we can see the difference an on-form Sexton can make to our team. The thing is Sexton hasn't done everything ROG has and ROG is still a very valuable member of the side- but i'm sick of people bashing him because of the emotional attachment they have to ROG as a player. I really believe we could not have delivered the performance we did against England without him.

Moving forward as a side, we need this guy. And arguing he can't start because of other senior players missing is really the kind of thing that can hold us back as a rugby playing nation. He's not some wet behind the ears kid, he's 25 and has a couple of HEC medals in his back pocket. Give him plenty of gametime, and the more different players we get to see him with the better it is for us going into this World Cup.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I'm not taking it personally rodders, just bored with the "I rate ROG BUT ... " line that it trotted out by you regularly, then claiming that Sexton has done everything that ROG has done is just mind boggling. And you probably believe it!

Sin I've already said that I was wrong to say Sexton had achieved everything ROG had. I'm not sure how any of that equates to "despising rog as a person and player" or "cheap digs"?

Dodger you have to take the bbc ni reports with a pinch of salt but certainly Ferris looked in pretty good nick in those clips!

The fact that you came out with it says a lot about your mindset. And I just don't see how Sexton has earned the rating at international level that you are giving him. As far as I can see, he is still a work-in-progress, which is what you would expect most players with 12 interntional caps to their name to be.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
You keep saying you rate him as a player, but then you keep criticising him and having cheap digs - it just doesn't add up to you rating him as a player.

Can you point out some of these 'cheap digs' Sin? It is possible to rate a player but feel that someone else is better. For example I rate Leo Cullen very highly but wouldn't select him ahead of POC. I rate Shane Jennings but wouldn't pick him ahead of David Wallace. I think you take these things too personally sin.

No comparison between these examples. POC & Wallace have the 70+ caps to prove that they are regarded as better players.

I'm not taking it personally rodders, just bored with the "I rate ROG BUT ... " line that it trotted out by you regularly, then claiming that Sexton has done everything that ROG has done is just mind boggling. And you probably believe it!

There's a case for experience. But let's not judge ROG on his past alone. Head to head, I think we can see the difference an on-form Sexton can make to our team. The thing is Sexton hasn't done everything ROG has and ROG is still a very valuable member of the side- but i'm sick of people bashing him because of the emotional attachment they have to ROG as a player. I really believe we could not have delivered the performance we did against England without him.

Moving forward as a side, we need this guy. And arguing he can't start because of other senior players missing is really the kind of thing that can hold us back as a rugby playing nation. He's not some wet behind the ears kid, he's 25 and has a couple of HEC medals in his back pocket. Give him plenty of gametime, and the more different players we get to see him with the better it is for us going into this World Cup.

Thats the point really - Sexton's form at international level has been inconsistent. I'm not bashing Sexton - I'm saying that in the situation where you have in experienced centre partnership playing their first game together, it seems logical to me to have an experienced OH who has been there and done that before.

As recently as last November against Samoa, thats what Kidney did. Since then Sexton has probably started 4 internationals at OH and Paddy Wallace/ Earls/McFaddan have started none at centre.

Sin é wrote:
The fact that you came out with it says a lot about your mindset. And I just don't see how Sexton has earned the rating at international level that you are giving him. As far as I can see, he is still a work-in-progress, which is what you would expect most players with 12 interntional caps to their name to be.

I don't see Sexton as a work-in-progress at all. He can improve yes but for me he's the best fly-half in Europe right now and by some distance. I'm sorry that you are upset by that assessment. It doesn't mean I don't rate ROG who has been one of the best in Europe for the past decade and is still a fine player. I have no idea what "mindset" you think I have but I want to see Ireland do well and for me Sexton is the best guy to take us forward.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
The fact that you came out with it says a lot about your mindset. And I just don't see how Sexton has earned the rating at international level that you are giving him. As far as I can see, he is still a work-in-progress, which is what you would expect most players with 12 interntional caps to their name to be.

I don't see Sexton as a work-in-progress at all. He can improve yes but for me he's the best fly-half in Europe right now and by some distance. I'm sorry that you are upset by that assessment. It doesn't mean I don't rate ROG who has been one of the best in Europe for the past decade and is still a fine player. I have no idea what "mindset" you think I have but I want to see Ireland do well and for me Sexton is the best guy to take us forward.

Whatever about rating ROG, you don't rate consistency. I'm not upset by your assessment, I just don't rate it

There's consistently average which won't win us this thing and hasn't won us mach to date. Then there's occasionally brilliant... only one way for Sexton to develop consistency, and thats on the pitch and in the green shirt.

Notch wrote:There's consistently average which won't win us this thing and hasn't won us mach to date. Then there's occasionally brilliant... only one way for Sexton to develop consistency, and thats on the pitch and in the green shirt.

Well, the 'consistently average' outhalf has a far better success rate than the 'occasionally brilliant' one. I'm sure his team mates appreciate their 'consistently average' win bonuses to their 'occasionally brilliant ones.'

Breaking news:

Just got off with a source.

13 of the 15 have been named:

Court, Cronin, Buckley
Mick O'Driscoll, Cullen
McLaughlin, Leamy, XXX
Boss, Wallace
Spence, McFadden
XXX ,Kearney, Trimble

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:There's consistently average which won't win us this thing and hasn't won us mach to date. Then there's occasionally brilliant... only one way for Sexton to develop consistency, and thats on the pitch and in the green shirt.

Well, the 'consistently average' outhalf has a far better success rate than the 'occasionally brilliant' one. I'm sure his team mates appreciate their 'consistently average' win bonuses to their 'occasionally brilliant ones.'

Munster appreciate it?
I'm sure they do, but he's not the best outhalf in Ireland at provincial level is he? And Sexton needs more gametime to get to that level consistently for Ireland.

I really don't understand the point your trying to make.

Stag- sounds like a WUM to me man

Notch - here's a link - http://www.insidecartonhouse.ie/news/234777.php