The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the virtual rugby pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the Tommy Bowe photo on the bar. That's a banning offence

So pull up a chair....what'll it be?




Last Pub: https://www.606v2.com/t10923p950-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub#353840

Yeah, precisely. I won't be happy if we fail to produce that in the World Cup. The provinces have done it so many times, and in our last serious game we definitely produced that against England.

The England game is now the benchmark and anything less than that level of performance in the big games is not acceptable regardless of opposition. If we're serious about being a Top 4 rugby nation and semi-finalist at the RWC this year then less won't do.

Cari, that's what I planned doing. I can see me getting sparked out by Tito though.

Prop, cheers for the wishes. Nice one on the throwing.

Hughie, I apologise profusely. I rate you really.

I went back to that garage tonight (that i walked round with my fly undone last night) just for some chewing gum and thought I'd left my room unlocked and the room key inside. As I leave the garage I catch my pocket with my car keys as I go to unlock my car, but think nothing of it. When I get back to my room and try the door, I find it locked so obviously I Poopie myself and thought I best go search the garage forecourt. Anyway, no joy there and so I get back on camp and start zigzagging in the dark from my car to my block using the rubbish light off my phone to search the floor for them. After ten minutes of this, I decided to try the door one more time and obviously the fecker was still locked, so I decided to try my room key from Lyneham. The flipper worked and I found my key for here on my table, meaning all along I'd locked my door with my Lyneham room key. What a spanner.

Sorry that's long winded but I found it therapeutic talking about it

Rev!

How come the other key worked though? I don't understand.

I'm so confused...

Golf very entertaining tonight. Rory looking good if he can finish in the red.

Is Rev so used to being ignored that he's actually now gone off to do something else safe in the knowledge we wouldn't reply?

Sorry I'm still new to this pub stuff, I didn't realise we had to ignore rev. Apologies.

It's only a joke. Please do reply to Rev.

Notch wrote:It's only a joke. Please do reply to Rev.

Who ?

That's the spirit

Great finish from Westwood. 8 back is nothing he's still in the hunt. Hope Rory is going to be okay.

Watching the Ireland game again. We were far too negative about this. We showed a lot of encouraging play that has been glossed over. I'm now quite excited to see what we can offer at the weekend. The back three in particular worked really well together. Bowe actually has his work cut out. They worked very well as a unit.

We just didn't really commit enough men around the fringes. We didn't get going forward enough from our tight five and backrow. I'm very excited to see what we can do with a stronger pack out.

Risca Rev wrote:Cari, that's what I planned doing. I can see me getting sparked out by Tito though.

Prop, cheers for the wishes. Nice one on the throwing.

Hughie, I apologise profusely. I rate you really.

I went back to that garage tonight (that i walked round with my fly undone last night) just for some chewing gum and thought I'd left my room unlocked and the room key inside. As I leave the garage I catch my pocket with my car keys as I go to unlock my car, but think nothing of it. When I get back to my room and try the door, I find it locked so obviously I Poopie myself and thought I best go search the garage forecourt. Anyway, no joy there and so I get back on camp and start zigzagging in the dark from my car to my block using the rubbish light off my phone to search the floor for them. After ten minutes of this, I decided to try the door one more time and obviously the fecker was still locked, so I decided to try my room key from Lyneham. The flipper worked and I found my key for here on my table, meaning all along I'd locked my door with my Lyneham room key. What a spanner.

Sorry that's long winded but I found it therapeutic talking about it

Lucky you Rev!

Back a while when I was living in London I arrived home from work on a Friday evening, ripped my shoes and some clothes off and about an hour later decided to order a pizza. No one else was home. My flatmates were at a pub in Chelsea; I was in Holland Park.

A few minutes later the phone rang and it was my mate Rosie and we chatted for a while as you do. It must have been about 25 mins later when there was a buzz at the door. The pizza had arrived. I told Rosie to hang on a sec. A grabbed a note and went through the door and onto the 3rd floor landing area at the top of the stairs. As I gave the guy the money and was handed my pizza - a gust of wind (or air pressure change?) blew the front door shut behind me. So there I was standing with a bloody pizza, half dressed, bare foot and with about 5 quid change in my hand.

After standing there in shock for a minute, I decided to beg my way out of it by knocking on some doors. The first few... nothing. Finally, an old lady (widow as it turned out) opened her door with a perplexed look on her face. I told her the situation and she kindly offered to kit me up in some of her recently deceased husband's gear. However, she had thrown out all his shoes and the closest thing she had was a pair of navy blue women's shoes - which were a painfully tight fit. She also lent me some money. With that, I hobbled down to the street and got a taxi to Chelsea.

I had to scour a few pubs until I eventually found one of my flatmates - Katie, who burst into a fit of laughter when I told her about the situation and called people over to me saying "Look at my flatmate - check out his trousers & shoes!" It was hysterical for them; I was beyond embarrassment by that stage. Anyway, I borrowed her key and awkwardly exited the pub.

When I got back Rosie was waiting outside. She had caught a taxi from Chiswick. "WTF happened... I thought you'd dropped dead on me?"

"Faruk...!" I'd been so otherwise occupied I'd completely forgotten about the phone call. "Thanks for coming all the way over here. So sorry! How about some cold pizza?"

When I returned the shoes and money the next day - the lady downstairs was so impressed with my calmness under pressure that she set me up with a date with her niece too. That was the most expensive pizza I've ever had...

Morning all,

I'm back in work for the first time in two weeks today, shoite buzz for me


Anyway the papers


http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport?mobile-redirect=false
http://sport.scotsman.com/rugby
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/
http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/rugby

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=80
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union

Notch wrote:Yeah, precisely. I won't be happy if we fail to produce that in the World Cup. The provinces have done it so many times, and in our last serious game we definitely produced that against England.

The England game is now the benchmark and anything less than that level of performance in the big games is not acceptable regardless of opposition. If we're serious about being a Top 4 rugby nation and semi-finalist at the RWC this year then less won't do.

. Notch, I admire your ambition, but your game against England was only one of five performances in the 6Ns and one of 8 including the AIs, so it seems reasonable to set that level of performance as your target but equally a stretch to have it as your minimum acceptable standard in terms of your expectations for how they will realistically fare. Quite frankly Ireland haven't shown that they are capable of delivering at that level with any consistency at all, or have I missed something?

No, not really. You've put your finger on it. It's our target. It's what we can do as a team, it's the level we are capable of playing at our best and if we are to match up to our ambitions only the best will do.

Notch wrote:Yeah, precisely. I won't be happy if we fail to produce that in the World Cup. The provinces have done it so many times, and in our last serious game we definitely produced that against England.

The England game is now the benchmark and anything less than that level of performance in the big games is not acceptable regardless of opposition. If we're serious about being a Top 4 rugby nation and semi-finalist at the RWC this year then less won't do.

Blimey! Setting the bar a bit high there Notch? I think in that game Ireland did everything and anything to stop Eng doing the slam in Dublin, because it WAS England. I don't think you can maintain that level of intensity for 80mins that Ireland produced for every big game from now on.

Breadvan wrote:

Notch wrote:Yeah, precisely. I won't be happy if we fail to produce that in the World Cup. The provinces have done it so many times, and in our last serious game we definitely produced that against England.

The England game is now the benchmark and anything less than that level of performance in the big games is not acceptable regardless of opposition. If we're serious about being a Top 4 rugby nation and semi-finalist at the RWC this year then less won't do.

Blimey! Setting the bar a bit high there Notch? I think in that game Ireland did everything and anything to stop Eng doing the slam in Dublin, because it WAS England. I don't think you can maintain that level of intensity for 80mins that Ireland produced for every big game from now on.

They should setting the bar high, that's the nature of sport. If you don't believe you can win, well, you won't win. We can produce that level of rugby against England; no excuse for not being able to raise our game for the other big test nations.

I'm not asking for miracles. I'm only asking the team fulfils their own potential.

Precisely: "they" should he setting the bar high - it's a sensible aim for the players to get them playing at that level with consistency. But as a fan, I think you need a :cup: of realism. For example, as a player, I would be aiming for Scotland to produce the attacking display they did in their opener away to France in the last 6Ns and the defensive display they produced against SA in the AIs. But as a supporter, can I expect that every time, claim that is a minimum acceptable standard or suggest that anything less is unconscionable, no, that's not realistic

Linebreaker, great story.

Notch, the key shouldn't have worked no. Very dodgy really. At least I know I have a room to squat in though, should I need it.

Anyway, morning all. Just off for my exam, then it's live rugby for the next five days (Risca tonight, Wales tomorrow and Dragons Tuesday). Can't wait.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Notch wrote:Yeah, precisely. I won't be happy if we fail to produce that in the World Cup. The provinces have done it so many times, and in our last serious game we definitely produced that against England.

The England game is now the benchmark and anything less than that level of performance in the big games is not acceptable regardless of opposition. If we're serious about being a Top 4 rugby nation and semi-finalist at the RWC this year then less won't do.

. Notch, I admire your ambition, but your game against England was only one of five performances in the 6Ns and one of 8 including the AIs, so it seems reasonable to set that level of performance as your target but equally a stretch to have it as your minimum acceptable standard in terms of your expectations for how they will realistically fare. Quite frankly Ireland haven't shown that they are capable of delivering at that level with any consistency at all, or have I missed something?

Shut it As, or ill smash your backdoor in

I agree that the England game is the benchmark game for Ireland.

And vice versa.

The August 27th will be a festering sore that England will desperately want to salve.

I think people take this too seriously. You don't think I'll be too disappointed if they don't? It's just a game. Fans expectations have no bearing on anything really, and I've found that it's a lot more fun to be optimistic than pessimistic. In life as well as sport. Dealing with disappointment is part of being a sports fan, part of life, but the worst you can be is disappointed before a ball is kicked That's why I hated living in Scotland so much from a rugby point of view; they never really believed in their team at all. The fans were so, so negative. I mean if you go in with high expectations and they are dashed, fine. At least you've had that feeling of positivity and optimism and you'll come back next season the same. It's much more fun that way.

But yes, the minimum we should be aiming for is that level. That has nothing to do with my expectations really. I expect us to show further inconsistency but gradually improve until we are reaching that standard. Of course, thats not what I want us to be targeting. I want us to fulfil our potential from the off. Why not?

I believe it's our mentality holding us back. Not any lack of talent.

The_Hound_of_Harrow wrote:Never put any team on a pedestal, otherwise you're behind the game before you've kicked off.

The problem with that is that it's easier said than done. Even if you get off to a good start, get on top early on and get a score or two, at some point they (New Zealand, France, whoever it is) will score a try and you think, 'here we go again.' This is where sports psychologists need to earn their wages. I agree with you though, Hound, that England have made the All Blacks look far from unbeatable the last few times they've visited Twickenham.

Bore da pawb / good morning all. What's the craic?

Portnoy wrote:I agree that the England game is the benchmark game for Ireland.

And vice versa.

The August 27th will be a festering sore that England will desperately want to salve.

gross...

The crack is that I'm following Rava's lead. I've been thinking about what he said. It boils down to this. Because this is treated as some sort if special clique, we put down what we actually think. That upsets people. I acknowledge that I have upset people with my stance on the riots, Notch is forever upsetting people because he shoots from the hip. Therefore I shall not be posting in here ever again in solidarity with the pocket battleship. That is at least until at least the time after next that I get bored.

Are you serious, Glas? I don't understand. Has anyone inside or outside the pub complained to the mods about what's said here? If not, I don't see a problem.

No. The clue is in the last sentence. It's my way of saying we are taking ourselves too seriously. However I have now upset you unnecessarily with my subtlety. Argh! I will have to consider not posting anymore...

Morning all

Having teeth extracted this this morning, not looking forward to it.

That is all.

Good luck, Pete!

Glas, I wasn't sure if you were joking or not. I should have guessed you were joking because it wasn't funny.

Glas a du wrote:No. The clue is in the last sentence. It's my way of saying we are taking ourselves too seriously. However I have now upset you unnecessarily with my subtlety. Argh! I will have to consider not posting anymore...

No! Don't go!

Oh... wait

Portnoy wrote:I agree that the England game is the benchmark game for Ireland.

I think that is nonsence to be honest. The England ficture is obviously a special one because of the history but for me it is no more a bench mark than playing Wales or Scotland. This might come as a surprise to you Portnoy but the bench mark for every team is the All blacks not England.

There is nothing unusual about our record against England and it is on par with our record with the other home nations in recent years. The reason I feel that our record against France is so poor is because they are better team. The only anomaly that I can see is Englands disproportionately good record against France but that could be just down to the way the two sides play and perhaps that England tend to treat France with a bit more respect and fear than Ireland, who they tend to underestimate each season.

Rant over .

Pete, *manly handshake*. Good luck.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote: Quite frankly Ireland haven't shown that they are capable of delivering at that level with any consistency at all, or have I missed something?

Well evidently you've missed the last 8 seasons were we've been the 2nd most consistant team in Europe behind France.

If we were so poor in the 6N then how did we manage to finish 3rd and only lose two games each by a score? Maybe because even when we are below par and missing key players we are still a decent side?

Despite this poor form you rightly mention we have been in, we've actually only lost 3 times in the past 18 months by more than 1 score. 2 times against the AB's and against France in Paris. When you consider we didn't lose a game in 2009 thats 3 times in 2 years.

I'm not sure how much more consistant you can get?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Good luck, Pete!

Glas, I wasn't sure if you were joking or not. I should have guessed you were joking because it wasn't funny.

Right, that's it, proper pwdi now.

Glas don't go! Who will I have to defend me I bring up Europe again? They're all lefties in here I know they're just waiting for excuse to jump me!

But I gave you a rose! You can say whatever you like and as long as you put a rose at the end of it, no one can get angry. It's the law.

roddersm wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote: Quite frankly Ireland haven't shown that they are capable of delivering at that level with any consistency at all, or have I missed something?

Well evidently you've missed the last 8 seasons were we've been the 2nd most consistant team in Europe behind France.

If we were so poor in the 6N then how did we manage to finish 3rd and only lose two games each by a score? Maybe because even when we are below par and missing key players we are still a decent side?

Despite this poor form you rightly mention we have been in, we've actually only lost 3 times in the past 18 months by more than 1 score. 2 times against the AB's and against France in Paris. When you consider we didn't lose a game in 2009 thats 3 times in 2 years.

I'm not sure how much more consistant you can get?

rodders, pls don't statistic me to death!! You may have been the "2nd most consistent team in Europe behind France" over the last 8 seasons (not sure quite how relevant they all are, but nevermind), but in doing so you haven't been producing the same high level of performance as the one that you managed against England - and that is the key, I'm sorry if you don't like it.

So what if you only lost 2 6Ns games by a score, two of those that you won were equally only by a score, so sorry, but that's a nothing stat.

You can be as consistent as you like, but if that actually translates to consistently not quite good enough to seriously challenge the best teams in the world every time you face them (home or away), then you might well be consistent, but not quite there. Perhaps a different example: Scotland are consistent - consistently disappointing to their fans that never fail to get their expectations up before each 6Ns, consistently 5th in the 6Ns, consistently capable of suprising teams ranked much higher above them (except NZ) but rarely doing so. Hope that makes it clearer

roddersm wrote:

Portnoy wrote:I agree that the England game is the benchmark game for Ireland.

I think that is nonsence to be honest. The England ficture is obviously a special one because of the history but for me it is no more a bench mark than playing Wales or Scotland. This might come as a surprise to you Portnoy but the bench mark for every team is the All blacks not England.

There is nothing unusual about our record against England and it is on par with our record with the other home nations in recent years. The reason I feel that our record against France is so poor is because they are better team. The only anomaly that I can see is Englands disproportionately good record against France but that could be just down to the way the two sides play and perhaps that England tend to treat France with a bit more respect and fear than Ireland, who they tend to underestimate each season.

Rant over .

Actually I was referring to this summer's warm-ups.

Unattainable benchmarks are delusional in the short term. Both Ireland and England have the resources to come close or even beat the Boks or Oz.
But it would be a really bad day in the office for the ABs to lose to any of the Home Nations.

So for me, as a developing team, England should go all-out to lay the GS demons.

I'm pretty sure that MJ will be thinking that way. Pull up the drawbridge, drop the portcullis and put that terrible performance behind us.

Morning all. TFIF!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Quite frankly Ireland haven't shown that they are capable of delivering at that level with any consistency at all, or have I missed something?

I'm sure you've said that before somewhere.

Rodders, I'm not sure why you think losing by less than a score is something to shout about, you did actually lose those games. 2009 only stands out because you didn't lose a game.

2008 lost 6 games
2009 lost 0 games
2010 lost 6 games
2011 lost 2 games (so far)

nottins wrote:
Rodders, I'm not sure why you think losing by less than a score is something to shout about, you did actually lose those games. 2009 only stands out because you didn't lose a game.

I don't think it's something to shout about but it dispels the myth that we are inconsistant. No team, bar perhaps the AB's can sustain a high level year in year out and every team has their dips.

ASBO that performance against England was a good performance but I think you are exagerrating the discrepency from our normal level of performance. I don't think that performance was that great, a big improvement from our 1st few games but it was still not brilliant and we dropped off in the 2nd half. The fact that England were so poor flattered us a bit. We've certainly performed better than that albeit not much lately.

Portnoy. I think England and Ireland are at a similar level so their ambitions should be of a similar level.

Okay guys, no need to turn this into an argument. Let's all put the measuring tape away and zip up our trousers.

I was just stating that I have high hopes for this current group of players. I think we've underperformed quite extensively since we won the Slam in 2009; our play has been riddled with basic errors and indiscipline.

I believe we're quite capable of cutting that out and our peak has yet to come. Certainly I have my rose-tinted specs on to a certain extent, which is all part of the fun...

I agree with rodders in that Ireland and England are on a similar level and should have the same realistic goals. I think England have a slightly better chance of reaching the semis though, because in theory they can do so without playing a 3N side whereas we will very probably have to get the win against South Africa or Australia en route.

But I don't agree with rodders that our consistency over the last 8 years means much. The last two seasons would be the most important to me, and we've contrived to lose to Scotland and Wales in that time

It's clear that Asbo is quite justified in questioning our consistency, but I also feel quite justified in thinking that there is a lot of unfulfilled potential in this side yet and it could potentially be an exciting tournament for us.

Notch wrote:
But I don't agree with rodders that our consistency over the last 8 years means much. The last two seasons would be the most important to me, and we've contrived to lose to Scotland and Wales in that time

I don't think it means anything in terms of predicting things moving forward. I'm just using it as a counter arguement to dispel this idea that we are an inconsistant side who only produce a big game once in a blue moon, usually against England.

I think we have been incredibly consistant thoughout the last decade with only two noticible dips, end of 2007-2008 and 2010/11. There are fine margins between winning and losing and to be honest our level hasn't been that far below 2009, it's just the results don't reflect that.

We have been below par but a lot of it has been down to indiscipline, individual errors and selection changes and I just don't agree that there have been the peaks and troughs in our level that some are making out.

Another plug for this year's fantasy football tournament. Home page here to pick a team.

http://fantasy.premierleague.com/

Really simple and easy to play. Anyhow I've set up a 606v2 Pub league ala Sports Guru. Code below feel free to join.

1280463-305867

Oh and 606v2 have a wider forum based one as well which should be better promoted. Code below

39455-16151

I'll plug it again this evening where there'll be more people in.

Ciao.

Notch wrote:Okay guys, no need to turn this into an argument. Let's all put the measuring tape away and zip up our trousers.

I was just stating that I have high hopes for this current group of players. I think we've underperformed quite extensively since we won the Slam in 2009; our play has been riddled with basic errors and indiscipline.

I believe we're quite capable of cutting that out and our peak has yet to come. Certainly I have my rose-tinted specs on to a certain extent, which is all part of the fun...

I agree with rodders in that Ireland and England are on a similar level and should have the same realistic goals. I think England have a slightly better chance of reaching the semis though, because in theory they can do so without playing a 3N side whereas we will very probably have to get the win against South Africa or Australia en route.

But I don't agree with rodders that our consistency over the last 8 years means much. The last two seasons would be the most important to me, and we've contrived to lose to Scotland and Wales in that time

It's clear that Asbo is quite justified in questioning our consistency, but I also feel quite justified in thinking that there is a lot of unfulfilled potential in this side yet and it could potentially be an exciting tournament for us.

Ha, ha! A Scottish 6 inches: <----------------------------------->

Within the top echelon I think that there are 3 distinct tiers at the moment - (i) Aus, NZ & SA; (ii) Eng, Fra & Ire; &, (iii) Arg, Sco & Wal (all shown alphabetically to avoid contention, and the ordering will vary from time-to-time). So I think you are right that Eng & Ire should have roughly the same aspirations, altho in the back of my mind, there's always this notion that Eng have such a massive professional playing base, such huge finances and resources available to them at all levels of the game, that they should really be in tier (i). And again I think you are spot on in suggesting that the other two nations in tier (ii) have potentially easier journeys to the semi-finals in terms of how many teams above them they must meet.

PS Wales also remain a conundrum for me - I feel that they have the talent to be solidly in tier (ii), but I haven't seen that shown on the pitch in the last 3 seasons, hence their inclusion (perhaps harsh) in tier (iii)
PPS Now is there any other Celtic country that I can offend this fine morning?!

Maybe not so many troughs, but we have had a few peaks. A few one-off games where we've played at a much higher level than in others. Against France and South Africa in 2009, England and Wales in 2010 and England in 2011. In 2009 we were very consistent, but won a good few matches in third gear. There were only glimpses of our full potential despite finishing the year unbeaten. In 2010, we performed very well against England and Wales after being dismantled by France and then subsequently didn't turn up against Scotland. In 2011, our best performance came a week after one of our very worst, the embarrassing (for both sides really) game in Cardiff.

I do think Asbos point is well made and fair as I said.

Please, try not to jump down other posters throats in the pub everyone. It is a place for friendly debate. And hopefully somewhat less partisan. Robust debate is meant to be reserved for the main boards.

roddersm wrote:
I don't think it means anything in terms of predicting things moving forward. I'm just using it as a counter arguement to dispel this idea that we are an inconsistant side who only produce a big game once in a blue moon, usually against England.

When and against which other sides in the last 8 years have Ireland produced a big game(s) against ?

roddersm wrote:

Notch wrote:
But I don't agree with rodders that our consistency over the last 8 years means much. The last two seasons would be the most important to me, and we've contrived to lose to Scotland and Wales in that time

I don't think it means anything in terms of predicting things moving forward. I'm just using it as a counter arguement to dispel this idea that we are an inconsistant side who only produce a big game once in a blue moon, usually against England.

I think we have been incredibly consistant thoughout the last decade with only two noticible dips, end of 2007-2008 and 2010/11. There are fine margins between winning and losing and to be honest our level hasn't been that far below 2009, it's just the results don't reflect that.

We have been below par but a lot of it has been down to indiscipline, individual errors and selection changes and I just don't agree that there have been the peaks and troughs in our level that some are making out.

rodders, to be fair, I haven't seen anyone, except for your good self mention peaks or troughs. In fact, I hope you noted that I agreed that Ireland have been consistent - and also that they have not consistently achieved the standard which they managed against England last year

Damn, I do want to get involved in this convo, but there is so much reading to be done to get up to speed.

someone bullet point for me.

I am too tired to think

Notch wrote:I think people take this too seriously. You don't think I'll be too disappointed if they don't? It's just a game. Fans expectations have no bearing on anything really, and I've found that it's a lot more fun to be optimistic than pessimistic. In life as well as sport. Dealing with disappointment is part of being a sports fan, part of life, but the worst you can be is disappointed before a ball is kicked That's why I hated living in Scotland so much from a rugby point of view; they never really believed in their team at all. The fans were so, so negative. I mean if you go in with high expectations and they are dashed, fine. At least you've had that feeling of positivity and optimism and you'll come back next season the same. It's much more fun that way.
But yes, the minimum we should be aiming for is that level. That has nothing to do with my expectations really. I expect us to show further inconsistency but gradually improve until we are reaching that standard. Of course, thats not what I want us to be targeting. I want us to fulfil our potential from the off. Why not?

I believe it's our mentality holding us back. Not any lack of talent.

Notch, I know that you lived in Scotland for 9 years, but I sometimes wonder how much of our national psyche you have been able to understand? Before I say anything, I'll happily admit to being in the land of sweeping generalisations here, but why let that stop me?!?! We Scots are in general two personalities, part highland (heightened expectations at the beginning of every 6Ns, followed by despair when they are crushed) and part lowland (generally pretty pragmatic, with an understanding of where we really stand in the world, but equally a determination to better ourselves thru hard work and application) - is that something close to what you experienced? It's not all negative vibes in the far north!