ENG vs FRA - Match Thread - Team announcement, Chat & Banter etc...

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

Last 10 meetings

26 Feb 2011 England 17 - 9 France
20 Mar 2010 France 12 - 10 England
15 Mar 2009 England 34 - 10 France
23 Feb 2008 France 13 - 24 England
13 Oct 2007 France 9 - 14 England -RWC
18 Aug 2007 France 22 - 9 England
11 Aug 2007 England 15 - 21 France
11 Mar 2007 England 26 - 18 France
12 Mar 2006 France 31 - 6 England
13 Feb 2005 England 17 - 18 France

ENGLAND - 5 Wins - FRANCE - 5 Wins

England

1 Matt Stevens
2 Steve Thompson
3 Dan Cole
4 Louis Deacon
5 Tom Palmer
6 Tom Croft
7 Lewis Moody
8 Nick Easter
9 Ben Youngs
10 Jonny Wilkinson
11 Mark Cueto
12 Toby Flood
13 Manu Tuilagi
14 Chris Ashton
15 Ben Foden

Replacements

16 Dylan Hartley
17 Alex Corbisiero
18 Courtney Lawes
19 Simon Shaw
20 James Haskell
21 Richard Wigglesworth
22 Matt Banahan



France

1 Jean-Baptiste Poux
2 William Servat
3 Nicolas Mas
4 Pascal Pape
5 Lionel Nallet
6 Thierry Dusautoir
7 Julien Bonnaire
8 Imanol Harinordoquy
9 Dimitri Yachvili
10 Morgan Parra
11 Alexis Palisson
12 Maxime Mermoz
13 Aurélien Rougerie
14 Vincent Clerc
15 Maxime Médard

Replacements

16 Dimitri Szarzewski
17 Fabien Barcella
18 Julien Pierre
19 Louis Picamoles
20 Francois Trinh-Duc
21 David Marty
22 Cédric Heymans

[TheGreyGhost]

I actually thought their discipline was much better today. Someone posted during the game that they'd cut out the penalties and substituted them for soft tries.

Look at those two French tries, both poor defence. Wilkinson, Foden, Ashton all involved in the debacles.

Probably not the time, but on re-watching the last England try, did anyone else like Shaw was offside when he went to the line the first time? Looks a good meter or so to me.

[Geordie]

Its all very well being sick with anger...but he needs to recognise that this has been a problem for a while.

The forwards have played like schoolboys at times at the breakdown etc through most of Johnos reign. Now i put this at Wells feet...but why is johno no removing Wells...or getting his selections right with people who will play the forward game that Wells is trying to play.

Also his selections need to be improved. Why pick moody when he has shown NO FORM or LEADERSHIP whatsoever....why pick Matt Stevens who has proved he is not up to International standard...etc

He needs to address these problems now..and learn from this exit as the guys did in 1999...

[Cowshot]

Yep. Hang draw and quarter Wells and Ford. I'm up for it.

We could burn the Board for afters.

I think we keep Jonno, on balance. Given the lack of useful support from the board and the long term inadequacy of the coaches he's actually done ok. Not perfectly, but not bad. He'll have learned a lot from this (as hopefully some of the young players have. Especially looking at Wales!) and it's a shame to waste that experience given he's basically pretty good at his job, imo.

[Smirnoffpriest]

As much as id love 2 agree with sum posters and say england r in deep trouble - I just dont think they r,as although theyve playd terribly at times there is a lot of talent to choose from,u just need a leader (funny I would have said jw and moody were ur leaders but they didnt show up and didnt dictate) and find a way of using ur back 3

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Johnson must be sick with anger. As always the whole England set up completely disrespected their opponents - as they do to whoever they play. This would include their pathetic media -e.g. supporters with word processors/microphones. Team discipline on and off the field was diabolical. The players involved in the drunken debauchery should not be considered for selection again or Johnson should make a point and go! Gatland sorted out the Welsh discipline problems and look at tyhem go.
Thuggery on the field (Lawes, Armitage, Ashton) and the amount of needless penalties they gave away were ultimately their undoing. And now 2 out of the 3 worst teams in the 6 Ns clash in Edinburgh in the opener in February. Will not be pretty or flowing rugby thats for sure. Wales and Ireland must be cacking themselves laughing at the prospect.

Mate, chill out a tad. There's a few sweeping generalisations in that post that are a bit harsh and overblown

[aitchw]

The most depressing thing is that nothing will change in the England setup. Despite the very obvious need for some of the players to be dropped along with coaching staff it won't happen.

[PJHolybloke]

Johnson must be sick with anger. As always the whole England set up completely disrespected their opponents - as they do to whoever they play. This would include their pathetic media -e.g. supporters with word processors/microphones. Team discipline on and off the field was diabolical. The players involved in the drunken debauchery should not be considered for selection again or Johnson should make a point and go! Gatland sorted out the Welsh discipline problems and look at tyhem go.
Thuggery on the field (Lawes, Armitage, Ashton) and the amount of needless penalties they gave away were ultimately their undoing. And now 2 out of the 3 worst teams in the 6 Ns clash in Edinburgh in the opener in February. Will not be pretty or flowing rugby thats for sure. Wales and Ireland must be cacking themselves laughing at the prospect.

I have absolutely no idea where you get the "disrespected their opponents" from, back that up with some proof, any proof that anyone connected with the team or the media that has suggested anything other than the French were in disarray and should be beaten if they performed the way they did against Tonga, BUT, you never can tell with the French.

Everyone has been saying exactly the same thing and knew there was every likelyhood that France would turn up today and see England off.

Show me some back up to your ranting and I'll give you both a biscuit.

[TheGreyGhost]

Perhaps more credit should be given to Tonga for their victory PJ? I thought they played well and exploited the obvious problems in France's defensive organisation...which is something that England failed to do today.

[Geordie]

GG for once i agree with you

Tonga took France on Physically and deserved their victory.

We however look fragile physically...something i never thought i would say about an England team....

[TheGreyGhost]

It's no secret that England have been trying to play more expansively of late.

This is either down to an attempt to adapt to the changing law interpretations, or that all those "boring England" jibes, finally started to cut.

At any rate, I said a while back that England risked being caught in no-mans land at the RWC due to a lighter, more mobile pack suited to play expansive rugby, but a game plan set on kicking posession away and trying to use them as the set piece juggernaughts of the Vickery/Leonard/Johnson era.

[Geordie]

And thats exactly where they are.....

I just think England are suited to the be pack game....and should stick with that...and not be pressured into playing any type of game that is foreign to them....

[perand25]

Johnson must be sick with anger. As always the whole England set up completely disrespected their opponents - as they do to whoever they play. This would include their pathetic media -e.g. supporters with word processors/microphones. Team discipline on and off the field was diabolical. The players involved in the drunken debauchery should not be considered for selection again or Johnson should make a point and go! Gatland sorted out the Welsh discipline problems and look at tyhem go.
Thuggery on the field (Lawes, Armitage, Ashton) and the amount of needless penalties they gave away were ultimately their undoing. And now 2 out of the 3 worst teams in the 6 Ns clash in Edinburgh in the opener in February. Will not be pretty or flowing rugby thats for sure. Wales and Ireland must be cacking themselves laughing at the prospect.

Just a suggestion

[PJHolybloke]

Perhaps more credit should be given to Tonga for their victory PJ? I thought they played well and exploited the obvious problems in France's defensive organisation...which is something that England failed to do today.

Definitely, France weren't good against Tonga but you have to credit Tonga with doing the business in that they were able to apply the pressure where it mattered and put points on the board when the opportunities came, would it be patronising if I called it a mature performance?

France weren't brilliant today either, the shame is that they didn't need to be, they were strong in the scrum where, as I predicted earlier in the week, Mas really put the stink on Stevens, they disrupted England ball at key moments in the lineout and secured their own consistently, the tries weren't flashes of genius they were just an excellent example of simple, accurate ruthless rugby, their defence was fairly well organised, rushed and drifted where necessary.

Tonga will have taken much more pride in their victory after today's performance by France and rightly so, they've earned it.

[PJHolybloke]

And thats exactly where they are.....

I just think England are suited to the be pack game....and should stick with that...and not be pressured into playing any type of game that is foreign to them....

Does it have to be one way or the other Geordie?

Personally I like winning rugby however it's played, but there are some opponents that suit one style of play and some the other, I'd much rather see England developing a 30 man squad of core players that cover both options rather than be restricted to a one-dimensional "style". Where England are at the moment is as TGG says "no man's land", neither here nor there, in my mind a perfect opportunity to develop both styles in parallel.

[whocares]

Perhaps more credit should be given to Tonga for their victory PJ? I thought they played well and exploited the obvious problems in France's defensive organisation...which is something that England failed to do today.

you seem to put a lot of efforts in mimimising today's france performance (saw another post where you were not sure if france was a better team today vs the pool). maybe you should consider rewatching those games.... this is also insulting towards england who at least tried to come back in the second half.

against tonga, there were no team: just an addition of individuals who quickly gave up and were going backwards. today, there was cohesion, players looking for each others, agressivity displayed on the field and most importantly players going forward (well mainly during the 1st half). As a result, you grow on confindence, keep possession of the ball, tire and hurt the opposition who eventually commits mistakes and give away penalties or tries. this is the rugby that france has been playing for some time now and to be successful they need a strong front 8 who do the basics right, a lot of agression and a couple of good backs to finish the job. Same goes with defensive organisation, in fact it is indeed the same they had in the pool games only this time players showed more commitment.

I guess you dont find anything fancy in the french game (you probably find it very poor compared to the 3N entertainment) but today's 1H is the best rugby they played in the last 2 years. not sure if its good enough to beat Wales, today they showed some pride and that's what matters to me.

[HammerofThunor]

Well done whocares (you are French aren't you?). Completely outplayed us today

[Geordie]

PJ

No your right, it doesnt need to be as black and white as one way or another.

But i just think however way we want to play ...we are becoming TOO easy a pushover in the pack.
I then go back to my arguement with the likes of Croft...for all his skills is he the powerhouse that we maybe need at 6. Is Lwaes too lightweight...does he need a few stone on him. I know he's young and will beef out naturally..but he is still very lean and athletic...etc.

Maybe im just annoyed at the exit....

[whocares]

Well done whocares (you are French aren't you?). Completely outplayed us today

yep, still was very nervous during the 2nd half where France started to commit a lot of mistakes - think england was very disorganised at he beginning of the 1st half and let france win turnovers, line outs etc - that was enough to give them confindence - am happy with the team performance and guts showed on the field and particularly impressed by our backrow.

[aitchw]

Yes, another 'well done France' from me. You did enough on the day and it should restore some pride in the jersey. Good to see some leadership on the field, something England sorely lacked. Good luck in the semis.

[PJHolybloke]

PJ

No your right, it doesnt need to be as black and white as one way or another.

But i just think however way we want to play ...we are becoming TOO easy a pushover in the pack.
I then go back to my arguement with the likes of Croft...for all his skills is he the powerhouse that we maybe need at 6. Is Lwaes too lightweight...does he need a few stone on him. I know he's young and will beef out naturally..but he is still very lean and athletic...etc.

Maybe im just annoyed at the exit....

No I'm feeling all of that too Geordie, when it comes down to playing teams with plenty of grunt in their pack England just don't have the muscle to turn to like they used to, it pains me to say it, but Sheridan was missed for that reason alone.

It's OK having plenty to offer in the loose, but what you really need from the tight five is to be absolutely solid over your own feed, and totally secure on your own throw. England have struggled at the scrum right through the group stages and been properly exposed on more than one ocassion, today's lineout was as poor as I can remember, so when it comes down to building a new team, it has to be on the foundations of a solid scrum and lineout.

Cheer up Geordie, we'll get there mate, I'll take gubbings for the next two years in the 6N as long as England are building something exciting for 2015, I can do without 6 point winning margins here and there if it means nothing's going to change, rip out the dead wood and lets get some youth on the bubble.

Wales are definitely showing the way forward.

[senghenydd1913]

not going to gloat guys-would have loved to have played you in the semis-
BUT your 9/10 axis has always been a problem,great when the forwards could rumble and JW would kick the resulting pens but the games moved on-sort 9/10/12 out and its not as bad as you think.

[senghenydd1913]

sorry meant 9/10/11

[aitchw]

It's not a great compliment to Youngs but he would always have stood a better chance of performing had Flood been at 10. As it was he rarely had that opportunity yet again established partnerships were ignored. I still think that the backs are only short of 1 centre and a wing. Didn't like Armitage there. Glad in a way not to have been taken apart by you guys, losing to France doesn't hurt as much

[TheGreyGhost]

Perhaps more credit should be given to Tonga for their victory PJ? I thought they played well and exploited the obvious problems in France's defensive organisation...which is something that England failed to do today.

you seem to put a lot of efforts in mimimising today's france performance (saw another post where you were not sure if france was a better team today vs the pool). maybe you should consider rewatching those games.... this is also insulting towards england who at least tried to come back in the second half.

against tonga, there were no team: just an addition of individuals who quickly gave up and were going backwards. today, there was cohesion, players looking for each others, agressivity displayed on the field and most importantly players going forward (well mainly during the 1st half). As a result, you grow on confindence, keep possession of the ball, tire and hurt the opposition who eventually commits mistakes and give away penalties or tries. this is the rugby that france has been playing for some time now and to be successful they need a strong front 8 who do the basics right, a lot of agression and a couple of good backs to finish the job. Same goes with defensive ogganisation, in fact it is indeed the same they had in the pool games only this time players showed more commitment

I guess you dont find anything fancy in the french game (you probably find it very poor compared to the 3N entertainment) but today's 1H is the best rugby they played in the last 2 years. not sure if its good enough to beat Wales, today they showed some pride and that's what matters to me.hrea

Not at all. What I'm saying is that maybe the global pecking order is not how it is potrayed. The assumption is that if one of the traditional powers of the game lose to a Samoa, a Tonga or an Argentina (for instance) then it's because they "choked" or played poorly. No credit whatsoever is given to the team for their performance on the day in victory. Maybe France were a "better team" today, than the one that lost to NZ and Tonga, but then just maybe the opposition on the day didn't put them under so much pressure.

As far as I could see Tuilagi threatened France all day...his style is similar to the Tongan mid field. Very physical, very direct.

I don't mean any disrespect to France, they played well today and deserved to win. I'm just saying we must all make an effort to give an equal measure of credit whenever there is an "upset" victory, rather than assuming the losing team played badly.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Perhaps more credit should be given to Tonga for their victory PJ? I thought they played well and exploited the obvious problems in France's defensive organisation...which is something that England failed to do today.

you seem to put a lot of efforts in mimimising today's france performance (saw another post where you were not sure if france was a better team today vs the pool). maybe you should consider rewatching those games.... this is also insulting towards england who at least tried to come back in the second half.

against tonga, there were no team: just an addition of individuals who quickly gave up and were going backwards. today, there was cohesion, players looking for each others, agressivity displayed on the field and most importantly players going forward (well mainly during the 1st half). As a result, you grow on confindence, keep possession of the ball, tire and hurt the opposition who eventually commits mistakes and give away penalties or tries. this is the rugby that france has been playing for some time now and to be successful they need a strong front 8 who do the basics right, a lot of agression and a couple of good backs to finish the job. Same goes with defensive ogganisation, in fact it is indeed the same they had in the pool games only this time players showed more commitment

I guess you dont find anything fancy in the french game (you probably find it very poor compared to the 3N entertainment) but today's 1H is the best rugby they played in the last 2 years. not sure if its good enough to beat Wales, today they showed some pride and that's what matters to me.hrea

Not at all. What I'm saying is that maybe the global pecking order is not how it is potrayed. The assumption is that if one of the traditional powers of the game lose to a Samoa, a Tonga or an Argentina (for instance) then it's because they "choked" or played poorly. No credit whatsoever is given to the team for their performance on the day in victory. Maybe France were a "better team" today, than the one that lost to NZ and Tonga, but then just maybe the opposition on the day didn't put them under so much pressure.

As far as I could see Tuilagi threatened France all day...his style is similar to the Tongan mid field. Very physical, very direct.

I don't mean any disrespect to France, they played well today and deserved to win. I'm just saying we must all make an effort to give an equal measure of credit whenever there is an "upset" victory, rather than assuming the losing team played badly.

As a Welshman I wont be upset to see you give us full credit for us beating your lot in the final

[RubyGuby]

As a Welshman I wont be upset to see you give us full credit for us beating your lot in the final.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
Posts: 2167
Join date: 2011-06-02
Location: Cwm Taff, Waleshire


10/10

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

As a Welshman I wont be upset to see you give us full credit for us beating your lot in the final.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
Posts: 2167
Join date: 2011-06-02
Location: Cwm Taff, Waleshire


10/10

Grandparent qualified

[RubyGuby]

Stop it, you're supposed to be depressed and suffering dammit, this is taking the shine off our win

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Stop it, you're supposed to be depressed and suffering dammit, this is taking the shine off our win

OUR win

[RubyGuby]

Hey brawd I bet that Grans from llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

[PJHolybloke]

The school I went to has a field classroom that was converted from an old farmhouse. It's not far from Barmouth, just off the A496 about 2 miles from Bontddu, a place called Farchynys.

I spent weeks there when I was a kid - so I'm practically Welsh!

I'm learning the words to Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau in time for the weekend, it's not easy and I couldn't help noticing that Welsh seems to have a shortage of vowels, I've had a whip-round and come up with a few and as such am now known as PJHlyblk - frm Wlsll, Wst Mdlnds.

[Gatts]

The school I went to has a field classroom that was converted from an old farmhouse. It's not far from Barmouth, just off the A496 about 2 miles from Bontddu, a place called Farchynys.

I spent weeks there when I was a kid - so I'm practically Welsh!

I'm learning the words to Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau in time for the weekend, it's not easy and I couldn't help noticing that Welsh seems to have a shortage of vowels, I've had a whip-round and come up with a few and as such am now known as PJHlyblk - frm Wlsll, Wst Mdlnds.

Kev says you have no hope learning the anthem in time and being a Sxn and should stick to L L L !

[PJHolybloke]

The school I went to has a field classroom that was converted from an old farmhouse. It's not far from Barmouth, just off the A496 about 2 miles from Bontddu, a place called Farchynys.

I spent weeks there when I was a kid - so I'm practically Welsh!

I'm learning the words to Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau in time for the weekend, it's not easy and I couldn't help noticing that Welsh seems to have a shortage of vowels, I've had a whip-round and come up with a few and as such am now known as PJHlyblk - frm Wlsll, Wst Mdlnds.

Kev says you have no hope learning the anthem in time and being a Sxn and should stick to L L L !

Yeah? Well Kev's a Cat mate, he's 2 from 4 so that doesn't make him psychic - just an average guesser.

I'm also so Welsh I'm comfortable with the word Saes (thanks Cymroglan ) and as for Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau? Check this out:

Ahem, ahem, laaaaaaaa.

Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad hmmm hmmm hmm, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol hmmm, hmmm tra mâd,
Hmmm hmmm hmmm eu gwaed.

Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra môr hmmm hmm i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded hmm hmm barhau.

Not bad eh?

[Gatts]

The school I went to has a field classroom that was converted from an old farmhouse. It's not far from Barmouth, just off the A496 about 2 miles from Bontddu, a place called Farchynys.

I spent weeks there when I was a kid - so I'm practically Welsh!

I'm learning the words to Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau in time for the weekend, it's not easy and I couldn't help noticing that Welsh seems to have a shortage of vowels, I've had a whip-round and come up with a few and as such am now known as PJHlyblk - frm Wlsll, Wst Mdlnds.

Kev says you have no hope learning the anthem in time and being a Sxn and should stick to L L L !

Yeah? Well Kev's a Cat mate, he's 2 from 4 so that doesn't make him psychic - just an average guesser.

I'm also so Welsh I'm comfortable with the word Saes (thanks Cymroglan ) and as for Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau? Check this out:

Ahem, ahem, laaaaaaaa.

Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad hmmm hmmm hmm, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol hmmm, hmmm tra mâd,
Hmmm hmmm hmmm eu gwaed.

Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra môr hmmm hmm i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded hmm hmm barhau.

Not bad eh?

Half English, Half Irish and 100% Welsh. welcome to the club!

One qualifying question: What would you do with a lone female sheep given there was no one else in the vicinity

[PJHolybloke]

Fill my boots.

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