Is the Rabo a serious competition?

First topic message reminder :

Ulster fielded many debutants for the away fixture against Leinster and got smashed 42-13 then made 15 changes (15!!!) for their home fixture against Munster today and smashed them 33-17. According to a Welsh commentator it was a Munster 3rd string that took the field.
In Wales this evening we witnessed a much changed Turk side after their home win against the O's, take on Newport GD and got a lucky win. Not surprisingly Cardiff have many players "injured" or "ill" for the new year's day away fixture against the O's.
I wonder what the Leinster team will be at Cardiff on Jan 7th?

"Scotland and Italy whinge? Get on with improving your regions, simples!"

Do I hear Echoes ??

I pick on them as they have 100% representation now, but you knew what I meant! I'm glad everybody now agrees with Feckless.

Yay. It only took 11 pages.

Feckless Rogue wrote:How about a compromise then. The top 2 Irish and Welsh sides get guaranteed HEC spots. the Top Scottish team and Italian team get spots too. That leaves 2 Irish, 2 Welsh 1 Scottish and 1 Italian going for 4 spots based solely on who's highest in the league.

Applying it to last year Ulster would get a spot as reward for a 3rd place finish. Both Dragons and Connacht would qualify for finishing 7th and 9th. Glasgow and Aironi would miss out for being in the bottom 2.

Now you've got an incentive for the weaker teams (based on last years table Glasgow, Treviso, Aironi, Connacht, Dragons) to battle among themselves to finish higher. It would almost always result in the bottom 2 teams missing out. But no nation would ever completely miss out on HEC rugby.

Applying it to this year, Dragons and Connacht, on 17 points each, would have a serious battle on their hands to climb up the table. Finishing ahead of Dragons, being a more realistic goal for Connacht than finishing above Ulster. The goal for Aironi would be to catch Connacht and Dragons, who are only 3 points ahead of them.

That would add a bit of bite to the bottom I think. But also addresses the case for having at least one team from every union getting into the Heineken Cup.

Yeah, I was thinking something similar. Ideally you could get to a position where each Union would have 1 HC position to allocate their highest finishing team, let the rest fight it out. I definitely see Treviso moving up the table over the next 2-3 years. I think once that happens there will be a realistic chance of HC criteria changing. As I stated somewhere before, Arioni would probably develop better in the Amlin for the time being.

I note that Irish cricket is planning a campaign to join the Test fold (hopefully by 2020) based on the model of the IRFU.

Sincerely I wish them good luck in their aspirations.

Portnoy wrote:I note that Irish cricket is planning a campaign to join the Test fold (hopefully by 2020) based on the model of the IRFU.

Sincerely I wish them good luck in their aspirations.

Thanks a million.

its about time. when teams that ireland beat in the world cup in the test fold already it will only make cricket stronger

caoimhincentre wrote:

Portnoy wrote:I note that Irish cricket is planning a campaign to join the Test fold (hopefully by 2020) based on the model of the IRFU.

Sincerely I wish them good luck in their aspirations.

i
Thanks a million.

its about time. when teams that ireland beat in the world cup in the test fold already it will only make cricket stronger

Don't get ahead of yourself cao, One freakish innings in one on-day game doth not a summer make.

Test cricket is based on four innings over five days.

It's like confusing 7s and the main game.

Internationally it's an even smaller sport than RU.

But I still wish Ireland well.

Portnoy wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:

Portnoy wrote:I note that Irish cricket is planning a campaign to join the Test fold (hopefully by 2020) based on the model of the IRFU.

Sincerely I wish them good luck in their aspirations.

i
Thanks a million.

its about time. when teams that ireland beat in the world cup in the test fold already it will only make cricket stronger

Don't get ahead of yourself cao, One freakish innings in one on-day game doth not a summer make.

Test cricket is based on four innings over five days.

It's like confusing 7s and the main game.

Internationally it's an even smaller sport than RU.

But I still wish Ireland well.

Thanks for clearing that up. we dont really know that much about cricket here as its not really played at all.

an in fairness on that freak inning i believe one of your best players was injured wiht a broken tumb, some morgan fella.

I hope to see Ireland give it a lash when they join the test.....em, cricket test sides...em fold cricket Union.... Union of Socialist Cricketers?.... The Fold of Cricket Unionism????

Anyway, I hope they first smash England with a score of 6 wickets for four balls, all out for 642 creases and three goals for good measure!!!

(Looking at my brand new Beginner's Guide to Cricket) Now let me see........................hmmm, page one............contents...........................

1. Introduction.

Well Ireland have been a better team than Zimbabwe for some while now and probably on a par with Bangladesh so why not

We had a cricket bat in our school it was only used to batter you if you left your rugby shorts at home.

[quote="caoimhincentre"]

Portnoy wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:

Portnoy wrote:I note that Irish cricket is planning a campaign to join the Test fold (hopefully by 2020) based on the model of the IRFU.

Sincerely I wish them good luck in their aspirations.

i
Thanks a million.

its about time. when teams that ireland beat in the world cup in the test fold already it will only make cricket stronger

Don't get ahead of yourself cao, One freakish innings in one on-day game doth not a summer make.

Test cricket is based on four innings over five days.

It's like confusing 7s and the main game.

Internationally it's an even smaller sport than RU.

But I still wish Ireland well.

In fairness their campaign isn't based solely on stuffing England. You may recall Ireland also knocked Pakistan out of a previous world cup and have battled reasonably well against bigger fish in the one day game for a while now. To summarise Ireland have beaten four test nations. England, Pakistan and Bangladesh twice.

Before the GAA was established in Ireland cricket was actually quite a popular sport too. Cricket Ireland have their work cut out though.

[quote="leinsterbaby"]

caoimhincentre wrote:

Portnoy wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:

Portnoy wrote:I note that Irish cricket is planning a campaign to join the Test fold (hopefully by 2020) based on the model of the IRFU.

Sincerely I wish them good luck in their aspirations.

i
Thanks a million.

its about time. when teams that ireland beat in the world cup in the test fold already it will only make cricket stronger

Don't get ahead of yourself cao, One freakish innings in one on-day game doth not a summer make.

Test cricket is based on four innings over five days.

It's like confusing 7s and the main game.

Internationally it's an even smaller sport than RU.

But I still wish Ireland well.

In fairness their campaign isn't based solely on stuffing England. You may recall Ireland also knocked Pakistan out of a previous world cup and have battled reasonably well against bigger fish in the one day game for a while now. To summarise Ireland have beaten four test nations. England, Pakistan and Bangladesh twice.

Before the GAA was established in Ireland cricket was actually quite a popular sport too. Cricket Ireland have their work cut out though.

Lets not mention the Pakistani player who spooned a catch to the same fielder 3 balls ina row till he finaly held it then walked off laughing eh. Nothing suspect happened in that game to suggest thatIreland were genuinly the better team *cough*

But yeagh Irish cricket is comeptitive with the lower end test nations in limited overs. Its a big ask to reproduc ethat in tests as many of teh players dont evenm get regular 4 day cricket currently.

But part of the deal in becoming a test natiuon is to change that structure, thats what the plan involves. Its ambitious and it requires investent in growing the game .. but that should push it form being an amusing sideshow ( the crowd at the last Ireland England ODI was hilarious) into a genuine sport in the country.
Have to wish them all the luck in making it work, and growing the appetitie for the game. I still think the focus will be on the limited over game for the national side, but tests status will give them greater access to torunaments, more games against the bigger sides, a say in how the games run and how the calenders structured, more sponsorship money, and some investment form the ICC in return for their own investments.

Secretly Im also hoping it destroys rugbys popularity and Leinster go back to being rubbish soisomeone else can have a go at winning stuff.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Secretly Im also hoping it destroys rugbys popularity and Leinster go back to being rubbish soisomeone else can have a go at winning stuff.

I'd like to like cricket - well maybe I'd like to like it (as I don't really have much love for any sport other than Rugby). But I've tried watching some of it and I just get confused with all the different names to what's going on and then that matematician's scoreboard!!!

Yeah, I'm sure it's more simple than it sounds and looks but, God, I'd need more time in my life to find out!

I've tried to have cricket explained to me but I just don't get it. I tried to watch a match when I was in College and it was intensely boring. Every 10 minutes a load of the old men that were watching would all cheer and I had no idea why. I didn't even know which team was celebrating because they both wore white.

I'm 99% sure cricket will never be big in Ireland. Rugby caught on because it had attributes that Irish people love in sport. Most importantly physical aggression and speed. In rugby it's also possible to decide which team is better less than 4 days.

If the case of Jordan coughlan is anything to go by rugby is still much more attractive. Jordan excelled at both codes. I think he captained Ireland at underage level in cricket and while representing CWC in schools rugby. He chose the Leinster academy over Irish cricket as far as I know.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I've tried to have cricket explained to me but I just don't get it. I tried to watch a match when I was in College and it was intensely boring. Every 10 minutes a load of the old men that were watching would all cheer and I had no idea why. I didn't even know which team was celebrating because they both wore white.

I'm 99% sure cricket will never be big in Ireland. Rugby caught on because it had attributes that Irish people love in sport. Most importantly physical aggression and speed. In rugby it's also possible to decide which team is better less than 4 days.

140 years of rugby and the English and Welsh are still arguing over whos got the best team.


I do agree though that crickets biggest challenge is going to be eductaing the public in the game, and getting them willing to sit through 5 days of tests. T20 and ODIs are different, they are easier to understand ( till it rains) and over quicker...and theres more "big plays" in that time.
Without a culture its hard for a sport thats so very different to mainstream ones to easily take hold. Most people can quickly get a basic grasp of any sport that has two teams and goals, its a bit like scoccer..great. Cricket ...hmmm. I grew upo watching the summer tests on tv or listening to TMS, you gradually pick up the subtler points by listening the comemntators. One thing with cricket is becaus eof its slow nature the presnetters have more time to really talk about the detail of whats going on, and offer proper analysis rather than the cheap soundbites and cliches you get on most rugby coverage ( SKY!) . Im not sure how much coverage Irish cricket gets on the media, and if people will bother watching more than just the highlight package.
Realisticaly it aint ever gonna displace the main sports there, but it can grow a get its own niche market. Introducing more school kids to it is part of the plan.

On the cricket secion of 606 we are lucky to have one of the Irish coaches as a regular contributor. Im sure hed be happy to take your kids at weekends if you want some peace and quiet....

Cricket wouldn't be completely alien to Ireland though. There is a small niche of people who play it. And there's a GAA sport called rounders which is similar to cricket and baseball. Pretty much every Irish kid has played rounders. I think it's played by kids in Britain too actually.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Cricket wouldn't be completely alien to Ireland though. There is a small niche of people who play it. And there's a GAA sport called rounders which is similar to cricket and baseball. Pretty much every Irish kid has played rounders. I think it's played by kids in Britain too actually.

Rounders a GAA game? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounders

Yeah it is a GAA game Portnoy. In the link you gave it says

The first nationally formalised rules were drawn up by the Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) in Ireland in 1884. The game is still regulated by the GAA in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. In Great Britain it is regulated by the National Rounders Association (NRA), which was formed in 1943. While the two associations are distinct, they share similar elements of gameplay and culture. Competitions are held between teams from both traditions, with games alternating between codes and one version being played in the morning and the other in the afternoon.

I wasn't claiming we invented the thing. I know it's originally a British game and there is a rounders association in Britain. I was just saying that it is a GAA game in Ireland and therefore Irish people are familiar with a cricket-like game.

Guscott - Quote (BBC Q & A)

"If I look at the top six of Pro12 v the top six of the Premiership, I don't think there's a lot in it. As a competition I believe the Premiership is stronger - it has more meaningful games all through the season because of relegation. "

So his basically saying the Rabo is a Mickey Mouse league, end of discussion

Finally, Guscott intervenes and decides it in the AP's favour.

HERSH wrote:Guscott - Quote (BBC Q & A)

"If I look at the top six of Pro12 v the top six of the Premiership, I don't think there's a lot in it. As a competition I believe the Premiership is stronger - it has more meaningful games all through the season because of relegation. "

So his basically saying the Rabo is a Mickey Mouse league, end of discussion

Guscott just seems quite deluded a lot of the time doesn't he. Who is he trying to fool. There are 5 Rabo teams in the Hcup KOs versus one AP team. Sometimes I just want give him a good shake.

The old relegation broken record.

DOWN WITH RELEGATION!

"Who is he trying to fool. There are 5 Rabo teams in the Hcup KOs versus one AP team"

That’s because they can rest players as HC qualification is already guaranteed for most of them, Jeff clubs have to earn the right to be there, simples when you stand back and look at the F A C T S.

So therefore the Rabo isn't a serious Comp!

New Topic:

Is the Guscott a serious Commentator?

He gets paid to do it, long live the BBC!

Stop the presses.....an Englishman things the English league is best.

Have we a winner for the biggest non news story of the day

HERSH wrote:Guscott - Quote (BBC Q & A)

"If I look at the top six of Pro12 v the top six of the Premiership, I don't think there's a lot in it. As a competition I believe the Premiership is stronger - it has more meaningful games all through the season because of relegation. "

So his basically saying the Rabo is a Mickey Mouse league, end of discussion

HERSH wrote:"Who is he trying to fool. There are 5 Rabo teams in the Hcup KOs versus one AP team"

That’s because they can rest players as HC qualification is already guaranteed for most of them, Jeff clubs have to earn the right to be there, simples when you stand back and look at the F A C T S.

So therefore the Rabo isn't a serious Comp!

Please present the F A C T S.

This bit about the English rotating less is often spouted but never backed up with hard evidence.
As I have shown, by looking up the actual statistics, Leicester and Ulster rotated there forwards as much as each other between Rounds 4 and 5 of the Heineken Cup.
As I also shown there was very little rotation of players by Ulster in 2010/11.

I suggest you produce the hard evidence to back up this claim that Aviva teams do not rotate as much as Pro12 teams rather than spout an unsubstantiated ascertion. I think you may well be in for a shock.

The Jeff is more mentally challenging over the course of the season than the Rabo, hence why so many turn to the drink, pushing over drug sampling officials, dwarf throwing, burglary etc.

The AP just isn't quite as good as English media suggest. Why the need for excuses. If relegation is such a problem why not restructure the league. It is quite stagnant anyway.

HERSH wrote:Guscott - Quote (BBC Q & A)

"If I look at the top six of Pro12 v the top six of the Premiership, I don't think there's a lot in it. As a competition I believe the Premiership is stronger - it has more meaningful games all through the season because of relegation. "

So his basically saying the Rabo is a Mickey Mouse league, end of discussion

Was that before or after he said Ben Youngs was the best player in Europe?.......

HERSH wrote:The Jeff is more mentally challenging over the course of the season than the Rabo, hence why so many turn to the drink, pushing over drug sampling officials, dwarf throwing, burglary etc.

It's all starting to make sense now.

After he said Byrne was the best full back...

(Clarkson impression)

...in the World!

Guscott also said that Richie Grey definitely wouldn't be a player to watch prior to the last 6n.

The guys a clown.

If the Rabo is a serious Comp then why are the stadiums empty?*

* excluding Irish teams home fixtures.

HERSH wrote:If the Rabo is a serious Comp then why are the stadiums empty?*

* excluding Irish teams home fixtures.

and Welsh derbies.

HERSH wrote:If the Rabo is a serious Comp then why are the stadiums empty?*

* excluding Irish teams home fixtures.

You need to read all of the thread.

Cymroglan wrote:

HERSH wrote:If the Rabo is a serious Comp then why are the stadiums empty?*

* excluding Irish teams home fixtures.

You need to read all of the thread.

I'll pass on that thanks, I'm washing my hair.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!