The Klitschkos - why do we watch?

First topic message reminder :

Everyone is aware that they have been at the top of boxing for a long time. Their contracts are disgracefully over-binding just so they can have things their own way and make as much money as possible. They are ordered by their adopted German public.

Why do we watch them? It's not really for their absolutely impregnable defences which is about as exciting as grey paint or for their vicious brutal knock-outs as they only happen once in a blue moon now.

No, we watch them because we want to see how they are eventually going to lose.

Vitali will eventually be out-hustled and out-worked. He showed he was slowing down badly last night - he wasn't troubled by Chisora's punches, but Dereck did take the fight to him and he struggled. (well a bit, anyway!!)

And you just know that Wlad's time will come when someone thumps him with a lucky punch on the chin a la Corrie Sanders. It'll probably be in 2019 though, when he's 42...

tcribb wrote:

azania wrote:Why was Chisora denied the right to do the same to Vit?

Actually Mayweather offers fair contracts. He doesn't call for options that tie his opponents up should he win. Plus he doesn't offer 95%-5% purse split.

I forgot we allknow the inside and outsides of everyone contracts and negotiations now.

I have no question they benefit from greater contracts, but at the end of the day until a fighter actually proves his worth with a majority fan base and clout behind them, they gonna have to put up with what theyre given to get a shot.

Interesting. I recall the flak Khan (sorry but its valid) got for giving that Irish chap 3 times a career high payday. Chisora got £100k for this fight. I dare say Vit walked away with £4-5m. Something doesn't seem right there.

azania wrote:

tcribb wrote:

azania wrote:Since when has boxing been a barometre of humanity? It isn't. Its an escape. Entertainment. Do the brother's entertain you inside the ring?

Yes they do and I bet you tune in every fight.

Actually I dont. Only saw the Adamek fight a few weeks ago. Haven't seen the Arreola fight or the Sosnowski fight. If I have insomnia one day, I may watch it.

So you're not in a position to comment how good or bad they're then.

rowley wrote:

tcribb wrote:

azania wrote:Why was Chisora denied the right to do the same to Vit?

Actually Mayweather offers fair contracts. He doesn't call for options that tie his opponents up should he win. Plus he doesn't offer 95%-5% purse split.

I forgot we allknow the inside and outsides of everyone contracts and negotiations now.

I have no question they benefit from greater contracts, but at the end of the day until a fighter actually proves his worth with a majority fan base and clout behind them, they gonna have to put up with what theyre given to get a shot.

Fighters can actully do something to improve the contracts they are offered. I am pretty certain when Haye first signed to fight Wlad in 2009 he was getting nowhere near a 5-50 split, however when that fight fell through he went away, got a belt and a PPV following and a fan base and went back to the table from a stronger bargaining position and ended up gettting 50-50. the reason most of their challengers get shafted is because they have no fan base, no PPV audience behind them and limited interests from the major TV networks, none of which is the brothers fault.

That has all changed for Chisora now. He has a bigger fan base on people who want to either see him win or get KTFO. Good move by him.

azania wrote:

tcribb wrote:

azania wrote:Why was Chisora denied the right to do the same to Vit?

Actually Mayweather offers fair contracts. He doesn't call for options that tie his opponents up should he win. Plus he doesn't offer 95%-5% purse split.

I forgot we allknow the inside and outsides of everyone contracts and negotiations now.

I have no question they benefit from greater contracts, but at the end of the day until a fighter actually proves his worth with a majority fan base and clout behind them, they gonna have to put up with what theyre given to get a shot.

Interesting. I recall the flak Khan (sorry but its valid) got for giving that Irish chap 3 times a career high payday. Chisora got £100k for this fight. I dare say Vit walked away with £4-5m. Something doesn't seem right there.

Be his career highest no doubt and frankly doesn't deserve anywhere near the top end of good contract, considering he lost 2 out of his last 3 fights.

In your opinion Alex. Arreola fought a brave fight - how you call the punishment he received boring I don't know.

As for Marquez - I'm sure the money he received more than made up for Floyd's other "antics".

And as for this contract with Chisora - how much money would he have received fighting Dimitrenko? Or Helenius again?

It seems he received a career high payday against Vitali in a fight that Vitali didn't need to take.

What a Bar Steward Vitali is.

rowley wrote:

tcribb wrote:

azania wrote:Why was Chisora denied the right to do the same to Vit?

Actually Mayweather offers fair contracts. He doesn't call for options that tie his opponents up should he win. Plus he doesn't offer 95%-5% purse split.

I forgot we allknow the inside and outsides of everyone contracts and negotiations now.

I have no question they benefit from greater contracts, but at the end of the day until a fighter actually proves his worth with a majority fan base and clout behind them, they gonna have to put up with what theyre given to get a shot.

Fighters can actully do something to improve the contracts they are offered. I am pretty certain when Haye first signed to fight Wlad in 2009 he was getting nowhere near a 5-50 split, however when that fight fell through he went away, got a belt and a PPV following and a fan base and went back to the table from a stronger bargaining position and ended up gettting 50-50. the reason most of their challengers get shafted is because they have no fan base, no PPV audience behind them and limited interests from the major TV networks, none of which is the brothers fault.

not there fault!! what!

they are fighting nobodies thats the problem, they should only be fighting true contenders- thats what boxing is all about - if the only true contenders are themselves- so be it.

Why choose to fight him then?

When you find these true contenders who they haven't faced Mystiroakey, please feel free to give us a shout.

oxring wrote:In your opinion Alex. Arreola fought a brave fight - how you call the punishment he received boring I don't know.

As for Marquez - I'm sure the money he received more than made up for Floyd's other "antics".

And as for this contract with Chisora - how much money would he have received fighting Dimitrenko? Or Helenius again?

It seems he received a career high payday against Vitali in a fight that Vitali didn't need to take.

What a Bar Steward Vitali is.

Yes he is, first sensible thing you've about him all day.

tcribb wrote:When you find these true contenders who they haven't faced Mystiroakey, please feel free to give us a shout.

THEMSELVES- WASNT IT CLEAR ENOUGH

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Why choose to fight him then?

Because between them they have been champions quite a long time, the cupboard is getting a little bare. Should say the Chisora fight is not one that excited me but is the nature of long reigns there is guff in there was true of Ali, true of Louis, true of Holmes and is true of the brothers, all you can ask of any long reigning champion is when a legitimate challenge emerges do they deal with them, the answer for the brothers is yes to my mind.

mystiroakey wrote:

tcribb wrote:When you find these true contenders who they haven't faced Mystiroakey, please feel free to give us a shout.

THEMSELVES- WASNT IT CLEAR ENOUGH

So you want Vitali to fight Wlad, nice one..

Where were the fights against Ruiz and Valuev? Oh yes they realised they wouldn't be able to enforce their slave contracts so didn't bother trying to make them happen, how very convenient.

tcribb wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

tcribb wrote:When you find these true contenders who they haven't faced Mystiroakey, please feel free to give us a shout.

THEMSELVES- WASNT IT CLEAR ENOUGH

So you want Vitali to fight Wlad, nice one..

offcourse, and you think thats a problem.. why?

mystiroakey wrote:

rowley wrote:

tcribb wrote:

azania wrote:Why was Chisora denied the right to do the same to Vit?

Actually Mayweather offers fair contracts. He doesn't call for options that tie his opponents up should he win. Plus he doesn't offer 95%-5% purse split.

I forgot we allknow the inside and outsides of everyone contracts and negotiations now.

I have no question they benefit from greater contracts, but at the end of the day until a fighter actually proves his worth with a majority fan base and clout behind them, they gonna have to put up with what theyre given to get a shot.

Fighters can actully do something to improve the contracts they are offered. I am pretty certain when Haye first signed to fight Wlad in 2009 he was getting nowhere near a 5-50 split, however when that fight fell through he went away, got a belt and a PPV following and a fan base and went back to the table from a stronger bargaining position and ended up gettting 50-50. the reason most of their challengers get shafted is because they have no fan base, no PPV audience behind them and limited interests from the major TV networks, none of which is the brothers fault.

not there fault!! what!

they are fighting nobodies thats the problem, they should only be fighting true contenders- thats what boxing is all about - if the only true contenders are themselves- so be it.

How much boxing do you follow mystiroakey?

This is the current divisional top 10, according to the ring.

CHAMPION: Wlad. (1). Vit (2). Povetkin (3). Adamek (4) Chambers (5) Dimitrenko (6) Helenius (7) Boytsov (8) Chagaev (9) Arreola (10) Pulev
Boxrec go Wlad - Vit - Povetkin - Adamek - Fury - Helenius - Thompson - Dimitrenko - Pulev - Huck.

Povetkin has declined a fight with either brother on numerous occasions - the most recent being just last year. Povetkin is fighting Huck.

Adamek was the last person beaten by Vitali - and hasn't done much since.

Chambers was recently whipped by Wlad and is supposed to be fighting Thompson to get another shot - although he is injured.

Dimitrenko is fighting Pulev. Helenius "beat" Chisora and has since gone AWOL (very quiet on that front). Boytsov is rebuilding after hand surgery.

Chagaev was hammered by Wlad - and is still rebuilding his career. Arreola was hammered by Vitali and the same. Both declined fights before July.

Not real contenders?

Yes - we'd all like to see them fight each other - but most of us are resigned to the fact that fight isn't going to ever occur.

They are still delivering genuine fights against genuine opponents. And when they don't - a la Wlad Mormeck - they have the decency to say as the fight is signed - "this isn't the fight we want, we wanted Povetkin, we're very sorry".

Come on now Ghosty you know as well as me Don King was trying to nurse Valuev through to Marciano's 49-0 and was not letting the big lump within 100 mile of either brother. As for Ruiz if you're going to criticise the brothers for not facing him I can only assume you will be doing the same for Lennox Lewis who dumped a belt rather than face Ruiz as his mandatory, because otherwise it could come across as you lacking objectivity when it comes to the brothers.

mystiroakey wrote:

tcribb wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

tcribb wrote:When you find these true contenders who they haven't faced Mystiroakey, please feel free to give us a shout.

THEMSELVES- WASNT IT CLEAR ENOUGH

So you want Vitali to fight Wlad, nice one..

offcourse, and you think thats a problem.. why?

I thought it maybe obvious but they're brothers, it's not Tennis it's boxing, for one correct me if I'm wrong I don't think it's allowed in the rules and two do you really think either would go for the kill against one another, it would be a sparring session.

oxring wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

rowley wrote:

tcribb wrote:

azania wrote:Why was Chisora denied the right to do the same to Vit?

Actually Mayweather offers fair contracts. He doesn't call for options that tie his opponents up should he win. Plus he doesn't offer 95%-5% purse split.

I forgot we allknow the inside and outsides of everyone contracts and negotiations now.

I have no question they benefit from greater contracts, but at the end of the day until a fighter actually proves his worth with a majority fan base and clout behind them, they gonna have to put up with what theyre given to get a shot.

Fighters can actully do something to improve the contracts they are offered. I am pretty certain when Haye first signed to fight Wlad in 2009 he was getting nowhere near a 5-50 split, however when that fight fell through he went away, got a belt and a PPV following and a fan base and went back to the table from a stronger bargaining position and ended up gettting 50-50. the reason most of their challengers get shafted is because they have no fan base, no PPV audience behind them and limited interests from the major TV networks, none of which is the brothers fault.

not there fault!! what!

they are fighting nobodies thats the problem, they should only be fighting true contenders- thats what boxing is all about - if the only true contenders are themselves- so be it.

How much boxing do you follow mystiroakey?

This is the current divisional top 10, according to the ring.

CHAMPION: Wlad. (1). Vit (2). Povetkin (3). Adamek (4) Chambers (5) Dimitrenko (6) Helenius (7) Boytsov (8) Chagaev (9) Arreola (10) Pulev
Boxrec go Wlad - Vit - Povetkin - Adamek - Fury - Helenius - Thompson - Dimitrenko - Pulev - Huck.

Povetkin has declined a fight with either brother on numerous occasions - the most recent being just last year. Povetkin is fighting Huck.

Adamek was the last person beaten by Vitali - and hasn't done much since.

Chambers was recently whipped by Wlad and is supposed to be fighting Thompson to get another shot - although he is injured.

Dimitrenko is fighting Pulev. Helenius "beat" Chisora and has since gone AWOL (very quiet on that front). Boytsov is rebuilding after hand surgery.

Chagaev was hammered by Wlad - and is still rebuilding his career. Arreola was hammered by Vitali and the same. Both declined fights before July.

Not real contenders?

Yes - we'd all like to see them fight each other - but most of us are resigned to the fact that fight isn't going to ever occur.

They are still delivering genuine fights against genuine opponents. And when they don't - a la Wlad Mormeck - they have the decency to say as the fight is signed - "this isn't the fight we want, we wanted Povetkin, we're very sorry".

good one- have you lost the argument i take it!

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Where were the fights against Ruiz and Valuev? Oh yes they realised they wouldn't be able to enforce their slave contracts so didn't bother trying to make them happen, how very convenient.

You know that isn't true Ghosty.

Come on, be reasonable and deal in facts - I hate to say it, but you're behaving like azania on this one.

King wouldn't let Vitali come within a mile of Valuev - the point was that Valuev was supposed to keep feasting upon rubbish and keep King with an interest in the HW division. That's why there was the Holyfield set up. Same with King.

Nothing to do with slave contracts. Valuev and Ruiz weren't interested.

oxring wrote:In your opinion Alex. Arreola fought a brave fight - how you call the punishment he received boring I don't know.

As for Marquez - I'm sure the money he received more than made up for Floyd's other "antics".

And as for this contract with Chisora - how much money would he have received fighting Dimitrenko? Or Helenius again?

It seems he received a career high payday against Vitali in a fight that Vitali didn't need to take.

What a Bar Steward Vitali is.

Just because someone takes punishment doesn't make it interesting to me, makes it sounds a little more barbaric really. The fact that there's nothing in the fight and very little action outside of Vitali walking around making some fat guy look slow.

Wayne Braithwaite took a fair bit off of Enzo Mac in there fight, doesn't make it exciting or interesting.

For me and most people Vitali stinks out arenas, perhaps that makes most people not sophisticated enough for you however.

tcribb wrote:

azania wrote:

tcribb wrote:

azania wrote:Why was Chisora denied the right to do the same to Vit?

Actually Mayweather offers fair contracts. He doesn't call for options that tie his opponents up should he win. Plus he doesn't offer 95%-5% purse split.

I forgot we allknow the inside and outsides of everyone contracts and negotiations now.

I have no question they benefit from greater contracts, but at the end of the day until a fighter actually proves his worth with a majority fan base and clout behind them, they gonna have to put up with what theyre given to get a shot.

Interesting. I recall the flak Khan (sorry but its valid) got for giving that Irish chap 3 times a career high payday. Chisora got £100k for this fight. I dare say Vit walked away with £4-5m. Something doesn't seem right there.

Be his career highest no doubt and frankly doesn't deserve anywhere near the top end of good contract, considering he lost 2 out of his last 3 fights.

Dont be hiding behind the judges cards on the Helenius fight. Everyone other that Helenius (debeatable) and the 2 judges know who won that fight.

rowley wrote:Come on now Ghosty you know as well as me Don King was trying to nurse Valuev through to Marciano's 49-0 and was not letting the big lump within 100 mile of either brother. As for Ruiz if you're going to criticise the brothers for not facing him I can only assume you will be doing the same for Lennox Lewis who dumped a belt rather than face Ruiz as his mandatory, because otherwise it could come across as you lacking objectivity when it comes to the brothers.

Lewis had bigger fish to fry than Ruiz he was never a legitimate fight for him but he was the for the brothers, it's a big massive glaringly obvious difference.

I personally don't think it's a coincidence that the two contenders they didn't face were both promoted by King, call me cynical but I don't think it's a coincidence, they knew he wouldn't let them call the shots 100% so didn't bother.

mystiroakey wrote:

tcribb wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

tcribb wrote:When you find these true contenders who they haven't faced Mystiroakey, please feel free to give us a shout.

THEMSELVES- WASNT IT CLEAR ENOUGH

So you want Vitali to fight Wlad, nice one..

offcourse, and you think thats a problem.. why?

Dont be silly.

tcribb wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

tcribb wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

tcribb wrote:When you find these true contenders who they haven't faced Mystiroakey, please feel free to give us a shout.

THEMSELVES- WASNT IT CLEAR ENOUGH

So you want Vitali to fight Wlad, nice one..

offcourse, and you think thats a problem.. why?

I thought it maybe obvious but they're brothers, it's not Tennis it's boxing, for one correct me if I'm wrong I don't think it's allowed in the rules and two do you really think either would go for the kill against one another, it would be a sparring session.

are they brothers- what really!!! (i am offcourse being sarcy)

sports need undisputed champions, not saying that they should want to fight each other and it is resonable that they dont,- however it would surely be the biggest fight for ages and truely put HW boxing back on the map!

the best two fighters should fight each other- and that is one of the biggest problems about the current state as it is.

if there would fight each other or wernt brothers HW boxing would be much stronger!

The bigger fish Lewis fried was Micheal Grant.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

rowley wrote:Come on now Ghosty you know as well as me Don King was trying to nurse Valuev through to Marciano's 49-0 and was not letting the big lump within 100 mile of either brother. As for Ruiz if you're going to criticise the brothers for not facing him I can only assume you will be doing the same for Lennox Lewis who dumped a belt rather than face Ruiz as his mandatory, because otherwise it could come across as you lacking objectivity when it comes to the brothers.

Lewis had bigger fish to fry than Ruiz he was never a legitimate fight for him but he was the for the brothers, it's a big massive glaringly obvious difference.

I personally don't think it's a coincidence that the two contenders they didn't face were both promoted by King, call me cynical but I don't think it's a coincidence, they knew he wouldn't let them call the shots 100% so didn't bother.

Utter BS Ghosty and you know it. Valuev wasn't allowed to come within a mile of either brother.

If Valuev was fighting top opposition and neither brother I'd let you get away with it. The only one he was allowed to fight was Chagaev and he lost! Valuev and Ruiz in their King days were paper champs - and every time the Kbros called them out - both were strangly silent.

oxring wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Where were the fights against Ruiz and Valuev? Oh yes they realised they wouldn't be able to enforce their slave contracts so didn't bother trying to make them happen, how very convenient.

You know that isn't true Ghosty.

Come on, be reasonable and deal in facts - I hate to say it, but you're behaving like azania on this one.

King wouldn't let Vitali come within a mile of Valuev - the point was that Valuev was supposed to keep feasting upon rubbish and keep King with an interest in the HW division. That's why there was the Holyfield set up. Same with King.

Nothing to do with slave contracts. Valuev and Ruiz weren't interested.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

rowley wrote:Come on now Ghosty you know as well as me Don King was trying to nurse Valuev through to Marciano's 49-0 and was not letting the big lump within 100 mile of either brother. As for Ruiz if you're going to criticise the brothers for not facing him I can only assume you will be doing the same for Lennox Lewis who dumped a belt rather than face Ruiz as his mandatory, because otherwise it could come across as you lacking objectivity when it comes to the brothers.

Lewis had bigger fish to fry than Ruiz he was never a legitimate fight for him but he was the for the brothers, it's a big massive glaringly obvious difference.

I personally don't think it's a coincidence that the two contenders they didn't face were both promoted by King, call me cynical but I don't think it's a coincidence, they knew he wouldn't let them call the shots 100% so didn't bother.

Agreed. King would have demanded options on them and their manager knew it so stayed well clear of that.

The fact that the Kbros called out Valuev, tried to enter negotiations with Sauerland/King - all of this irrelevant then?

King was trying to nurse Valuev through to Marciano's 49-0, we all know it as well, lets not ignore reality just because it gives us a stick to beat the brothers with. Given he got within a couple of fights despite having virtually no talent to speak of there was never a hope in hell of him going near a brother, the terms of the contract are irrelevant we ll know it never got anywhere near that stage.

They entered contract talks with King but soon realised they wouldn't come to an agreement.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:They entered contract talks with King but soon realised they wouldn't come to an agreement.

OK Ghosty. Have it your way. The brothers ducked Valuev.

I haven't had lunch yet - and I according to Lewis Carroll, I should make an effort to believe 2 impossible things (paraphrase) each morning. What's the second ludicrous thing?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:They entered contract talks with King but soon realised they wouldn't come to an agreement.

So lets not blame the jolly murderer who left half his fighters penniless and bereft of hope - lets blame the boring lot who don't have this amazing ability at articulating alliteration and assonance.

When they were unable to completely control negotiations they quickly stopped bothering, they never made a concerted effort to make the Valuev fight happen.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:When they were unable to completely control negotiations they quickly stopped bothering, they never made a concerted effort to make the Valuev fight happen.

Possibly because King was never going to let it happen?

oxring wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:They entered contract talks with King but soon realised they wouldn't come to an agreement.

OK Ghosty. Have it your way. The brothers ducked Valuev.

I haven't had lunch yet - and I according to Lewis Carroll, I should make an effort to believe 2 impossible things (paraphrase) each morning. What's the second ludicrous thing?

You really need to ask? I'm still here.

I hear the maple syrup is not that good this year (2011).

oxring wrote:The fact that the Kbros called out Valuev, tried to enter negotiations with Sauerland/King - all of this irrelevant then?

More likely King wouldn't accept their slave contract and demanded options on the brothers.

ShahenshahG wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:They entered contract talks with King but soon realised they wouldn't come to an agreement.

So lets not blame the jolly murderer who left half his fighters penniless and bereft of hope - lets blame the boring lot who don't have this amazing ability at articulating alliteration and assonance.

So its ok to be a steroid user (Vit).

oxring wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:When they were unable to completely control negotiations they quickly stopped bothering, they never made a concerted effort to make the Valuev fight happen.

Possibly because King was never going to let it happen?

Strange how Haye managed to make a fight happen fairly easily isn't it.

Prescribed by a doctor - only later found to contravene doping list and he came clean there and then - giving them the tablets for his legs. Inadvertent teroid use is still steroid use but deliberate plunder of your fighters and kicking a man to death arent. big difference

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:They entered contract talks with King but soon realised they wouldn't come to an agreement.

OK Ghosty. Have it your way. The brothers ducked Valuev.

I haven't had lunch yet - and I according to Lewis Carroll, I should make an effort to believe 2 impossible things (paraphrase) each morning. What's the second ludicrous thing?

You really need to ask? I'm still here.

I hear the maple syrup is not that good this year (2011).

Haven't tried any yet - honestly. Have been living off Thai express and Subway.

The Quebecois dish of "poutine" is impressive however - its "cheeps, cheese and gravy" - and its a regional delicacy!

Going back to Ghosty's point. As with azania earlier - I can't really be bothered to mess around with sophistry for the afternoon so lets have it out:

Ghosty - are you seriously suggesting that the Klitschko's ducked or avoided Valuev?

Wouldn't go as far as saying ducked but they could have made the fight if they really wanted it, he was rightly or wrongly one of the more legitimate challengers out there.

ShahenshahG wrote:Prescribed by a doctor - only later found to contravene doping list and he came clean there and then - giving them the tablets for his legs. Inadvertent teroid use is still steroid use but deliberate plunder of your fighters and kicking a man to death arent. big difference

Is that what Vit said? And he's such a gentleman that he never lies even after rescuing a stray cat. In athletics the athlete is responsible for wht goes into his body. He's a steroid junkie. Simples.

And King went to jail. Made time work for him and became the best promoter in history. Only in America. Love the bloke (wouldn;t have him manage me though).

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Wouldn't go as far as saying ducked but they could have made the fight if they really wanted it, he was rightly or wrongly one of the more legitimate challengers out there.

Sounds like sophistry. They either avoided him or they didn't avoid him.

To the rest of the world - it looked like King was avoiding them. Running as fast as his lumbering behemoth's legs could carry him - or so it seemed.

Rowley's right on this Ghosty - you're taking a really strange position here.

azania wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Prescribed by a doctor - only later found to contravene doping list and he came clean there and then - giving them the tablets for his legs. Inadvertent teroid use is still steroid use but deliberate plunder of your fighters and kicking a man to death arent. big difference

Is that what Vit said? And he's such a gentleman that he never lies even after rescuing a stray cat. In athletics the athlete is responsible for wht goes into his body. He's a steroid junkie. Simples.

And King went to jail. Made time work for him and became the best promoter in history. Only in America. Love the bloke (wouldn;t have him manage me though).

Doubtless you call RJJ a steroid junkie as well then?

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:They entered contract talks with King but soon realised they wouldn't come to an agreement.

OK Ghosty. Have it your way. The brothers ducked Valuev.

I haven't had lunch yet - and I according to Lewis Carroll, I should make an effort to believe 2 impossible things (paraphrase) each morning. What's the second ludicrous thing?

You really need to ask? I'm still here.

I hear the maple syrup is not that good this year (2011).

Haven't tried any yet - honestly. Have been living off Thai express and Subway.

The Quebecois dish of "poutine" is impressive however - its "cheeps, cheese and gravy" - and its a regional delicacy!

Going back to Ghosty's point. As with azania earlier - I can't really be bothered to mess around with sophistry for the afternoon so lets have it out:

Ghosty - are you seriously suggesting that the Klitschko's ducked or avoided Valuev?

I got some little extended Az's in Quebec. Will be there this summer (cant take their winters). Go visit the old city. Beautiful place.

I wouldn;t say they were ducking Valuev. I reckon King rejected their slave contract and wanted to install some of his own that they wouldn;t agree to.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Prescribed by a doctor - only later found to contravene doping list and he came clean there and then - giving them the tablets for his legs. Inadvertent teroid use is still steroid use but deliberate plunder of your fighters and kicking a man to death arent. big difference

Is that what Vit said? And he's such a gentleman that he never lies even after rescuing a stray cat. In athletics the athlete is responsible for wht goes into his body. He's a steroid junkie. Simples.

And King went to jail. Made time work for him and became the best promoter in history. Only in America. Love the bloke (wouldn;t have him manage me though).

Doubtless you call RJJ a steroid junkie as well then?

Untimately YES (different circs though as what he took was permitted by other bodies).

They were not willing to give Valuev a fair deal in the eyes of King and he quickly rejected it, they at no point decided to improve upon it.

A strange position because I see them for what they are Oxy?

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Prescribed by a doctor - only later found to contravene doping list and he came clean there and then - giving them the tablets for his legs. Inadvertent teroid use is still steroid use but deliberate plunder of your fighters and kicking a man to death arent. big difference

Is that what Vit said? And he's such a gentleman that he never lies even after rescuing a stray cat. In athletics the athlete is responsible for wht goes into his body. He's a steroid junkie. Simples.

And King went to jail. Made time work for him and became the best promoter in history. Only in America. Love the bloke (wouldn;t have him manage me though).

Doubtless you call RJJ a steroid junkie as well then?

Untimately YES (different circs though as what he took was permitted by other bodies).

As long as your consistent.

Course - Vitali could have kept his mouth shut - like RJJ - yet he is criticised more for coming clean?

If he rescued an old lady from a burning building - some of you on here would find something to criticise in the act.

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Prescribed by a doctor - only later found to contravene doping list and he came clean there and then - giving them the tablets for his legs. Inadvertent teroid use is still steroid use but deliberate plunder of your fighters and kicking a man to death arent. big difference

Is that what Vit said? And he's such a gentleman that he never lies even after rescuing a stray cat. In athletics the athlete is responsible for wht goes into his body. He's a steroid junkie. Simples.

And King went to jail. Made time work for him and became the best promoter in history. Only in America. Love the bloke (wouldn;t have him manage me though).

Doubtless you call RJJ a steroid junkie as well then?

Untimately YES (different circs though as what he took was permitted by other bodies).

Will agree with Oxy on this one, they are either both steroid junkies or neither are, can't let Jones off and not Vitali.