So who's going to NZ for Ireland in June

First topic message reminder :

After last Saturday's fiasco, the thoughts of a three-test tour against NZ seems a pretty frightening prospect. But we're going and we assume that DK and his coaching team will be there as well. So given what's happened the season (and ok I know there are a few big HC games and the Barbarians coming up that might change things), given DK's conservatism when it comes making changes, the argument whether a NZ tour is the place to blood new players, the argument whether players on their way out or soon to retire should be left behind, then who should be on the plane. I'm assuming a 35-player panel (like the Lions) split 19-16 between forwards and backs - maybe the panel will be smaller but for this exercise I'm assuming 35

The choices I think are the following (assuming current injured (BOD, Cullen etc) are fit and get some game time ahead of tour

15 - R Kearney, Jones, Hurley, Duffy
14/11 - Fitzgerald, D Kearney, Bowe, Zebo, Gilroy, O'Halloran, Trimble
12/13 - Darcy, McFadden, O'Driscoll, O'Malley, Barnes, Earls, Downey, Cave, Spence, Wallace
10 - Sexton, Madigan, Keatley, O'Gara
9 - Boss, Reddan, Murray, O'Leary, Marshall
8/7/6 - Heaslip, Jennings, McLaughlin, Ruddock, Dom Ryan, O'Brien, Coughlan, Leamy, O'Mahoney, Wilson, Ferris, Henry, Muldoon
4/5 - Cullen, Toner, Nagle, O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan, Tuohy, McCarthy
1/3 - Ross, Hagan, McGrath, Archer, Fitzpatrick, Loughney, Wilkinson, Court, McAllister
2 - Best, Cronin, Varley

So from all that, here is my 35

15 - R Kearney, Jones
14/11 - Fitzgerald, Bowe, Zebo, Trimble, McFadden, O'Driscoll, Earls, Spence, Downey
10 - Sexton, Madigan
9 - Murray, Reddan, Marshall
8/7/6 - O'Brien, Ferris, O'Mahoney, Coughlan, Henry, Wilson
5/4 - O'Connell, Cullen, Toner, Ryan, Tuohy
1/3 - Healy, Ross, Court, Hagan, Fitzpatrick
2 - Best, Cronin, Varley

so that's it - no Darcy, O'Gara or Heaslip - Darcy and Heaslip because of sh1te form in 6N - how Stephen Jones had Heaslip as his best 8 in the 6N i can't fathom since he was outplayed by every other 8. Darcy gone because he's a pale shadow of what he was and his time has come, ROG, not because he's played badly but because he's 35 or so and we need to start looking at his successor - now.

New blood in Zebo, Madigan, Jones, Spence, Marshall, Fitzpatrick, Wilson. Most controversial choices - Downey at 12 (we need to at least try a bash merchant since everybody else seems to be), Wilson because I think he's been unfairly penalised for playing outside Ireland (and he's back next year anyway)

Still frightening light in the front row but until we discover a Romanian/Georgian/Samon/Tongan/Kiwi/Aus prop who is IQ we're in deep sh1t

Views? Well constructive ones anyway!

Golden wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

What is to gain by taking ROG?

A chance to beat the All Blacks?? If hes good enough bring him. The problem with Darcy and DOC is they arent good enough anymore not that theyre too old.

Do you really think that Ireland have a chance to beat the AB's with ROG in the team?

aucklandlaurie wrote: I was just thinking on the weekend that England has probably done Ireland the biggest favour possible,with 3 months to go before coming down here.

I think you might be right. Provided we can keep our dicipline, a big problem for us at the moment I think we will come very close in the first test. We have beaten the last two world camps in our first match after they were crowned champions. Plus NZ wont have had much time with the new boss Hanson. It is a good chance, post WC slump? Who knows but Ill put a small bet down for the first time in a very long time v the ABs.

Might be an unpopular standpoint but I really don't think we will beat the al blacks no matter who we pick. It would take a big turnaround from certain players and a level of Invention we haven't seen from Ireland in a good few years to come close.

This should be a development tour but the best way to do that is to bring in new guys alongside experienced ones.

Nonu..Cant make a sensible contribution tom the Blues.
Guilford..Runs all over the place like a mad womens s..t and achieves FA.
Carter/Woodcock..First games this weekend since WC.
McCaw..Havent seen him.

At the moment I think it comes down to Conrad leading a whole lot of young fullas.

The guy who is in outstanding form at the moment is Dollar Bill Williams.

Standulstermen wrote:Might be an unpopular standpoint but I really don't think we will beat the al blacks no matter who we pick. It would take a big turnaround from certain players and a level of Invention we haven't seen from Ireland in a good few years to come close.

This should be a development tour but the best way to do that is to bring in new guys alongside experienced ones.

We will some day.

Agreed buti don't think it will be this summer

Its a very good chance this summer to be honest.

Standulstermen wrote:Might be an unpopular standpoint but I really don't think we will beat the al blacks no matter who we pick. It would take a big turnaround from certain players and a level of Invention we haven't seen from Ireland in a good few years to come close.

This should be a development tour but the best way to do that is to bring in new guys alongside experienced ones.

+1 (with reservations about not beating them even once. I think the Ireland of mystery could show up for one game and actually beat the ABs - just. But I don't see it as having any footing in rhythm or reason, just maybe another all-in jamboree of intensity that gets the ABs in an unguarded moment)

Morgannwg wrote:laurie;

Dagg
Gear/Maitland
Smith
Nonu/Sonny Bill
Guildford
DC?
?
Read
McCaw
?
Whitelock
?
Franks
?
Franks

The All Blacks shouldn't be far off their team that ended the world cup. With some retirees though and lack of S15 spectating I am struggling to list players in certain positions. I would imagine a few new caps against Ireland though.

Gosh does look glum at the moment in terms of currents.

Even of the non ??? above Carter and Mccaw are yet to play. Nonu is part rubbish at the mo...Woodcock will be there and starts tomorrow. So will Jayne. Thompson and Hores going well. Mealamu and Toeava's stuffed. SBW's going well.

In fact our best players in the sxv at the moment are mostly not AB's- Aaron Smith, Perenara, Anscombe, Barrett, Tyler B...

hmmm...

eirebilly wrote:

Golden wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

What is to gain by taking ROG?

A chance to beat the All Blacks?? If hes good enough bring him. The problem with Darcy and DOC is they arent good enough anymore not that theyre too old.

Do you really think that Ireland have a chance to beat the AB's with ROG in the team?

Well were going to need to bring 3 outhalves for the tour. Im a huge madigan fan and am all for him going but for the first game i would have Rog on the bench and madigan seeing game time in the later games.

I just feel that some people are having a knee jerk reaction and that feel that anyone on the wrong side of 30 shouldn't tour. if your good enough your young enough. The fact that Doc and Darcy are over 30 is not the reason we were bad. Its because they are not up to it any-more and that were stuck with a clueless coach.

Some people think we should be planning for the next World cup already which i think is rediculous

We should be planning for the Nov internationals. We need to win them all to get a good world ranking for the next WC. We should also be planning to win next years six nations. We dont have a hope unless we weed out the guys who arent performing now.

My 35 and why and all that jazz

Healy, McAllister, Court, Ross, Hagan, Andress
The usuals plus Hagan, McAllister and Andress. These are the ones I feel need to be worked on the most and have the most potential. Allows live scrum practice and the 3 are relatively "new age" in terms of how mobile they are.

Best, Cronin, Varley
Pretty standard call this. Our 3rd choice hooker isn't great but rarely gets called up.

POC, Ryan, Tuohy, Toner
No DOC. I feel his best days are behind him, he offers little and youth needs to be tried on this tour if only in the BaaBaa's game and from the bench. Tuohy could be class but needs consistency. Toner I think is seriously underrated and when POC retires he will be on the bench (or starting subject to injury) and thus needs time with the team again.

Ferris, POM, SOB, Henry, Heaslip, Ruddock
No Wallace which I am sad about. Great player. Ruddock in instead as he will be needed for the future. Would drop Heaslip to the bench for POM. Henry should be challenging him for that spot as has been playing well this year.

Murray, Reddan, Marshall
No TOL or Boss. Marshall could well be our reserve 9 in a years time and quite likely come 2015 and it's time to see him. Needs to work on passing but his attacking attitude is vitally needed in this team. Hopefully it isn't smothered. Would also say Murray's service needs to quicken to stay ahead of Reddan.

Sexton, Madigan
No ROG. Very tough call. He still offers something to the team but he doesn't offer as much going forward into the future. Madigan has been hugely promising and like Marshall has an innate ability to attack and this needs to be harnessed and fuelled to the rest of the team. I'm not sure I'd play Sexton at 12 from the start again as I feel Sexton should be our 10 in the future and therefore we need to develop a 12/13.

BOD, Cave, McFadden, EOM
Very tough leaving out Spence. I wish he'd played more of his rugby at 13 this year. EOM in because I think he a great footballer and has shown great ability to break the gainline for someone so small.his defensive frailties are made appear worse than they are (2 bad games versus Bath and Connaught and a few very good ones versus Clermont and Cardiff to name but 2) BOD and Cave to start.

Fitzgerald, Bowe, Trimble, Earls, Kearney Jr.
Personally I see Earls as a winger and not a centre but he would act as centre cover after doing well this 6N. Would be a starting winger with AN.Other. Kearney is the more complete winger compared to Zebo IMO, I think Zebo will overtake him in 2 years or so when his basics and vision are a bit better as he has the ability to score and beat people that few Irishmen have.

Kearney, Jones
Earls or Fitzgerald as cover here. Kearney to start as he was one of our standout performers in the 6N. Jones over Hurley or Duffy as I believe his potential hasn't been fully witnessed yet (I was in school with him) and I think he could be amazing either at 15 or wing.

BaaBaa's team:

McAllister-Cronin-Hagan
Tuohy-Toner
Ruddock-SOB-POM
Reddan-Madigan
McFadden-EOM
Fitz-Jones-Kearney Jr

Court-Varley-Ryan-Henry-Marshall-Sexton-Trimble

Test Team:
Healy-Best-Ross
POC-Ryan
Ferris-SOB-POM
Murray-Sexton
BOD-Cave
Earls-Kearney-Bowe

Court-Cronin-Tuohy-Heaslip-Reddan-Madigan-Trimble

That's just my opinion and god knows there's enough rugby to be played before then.

My wishlist:

1) More attacking play
2) More cohesion (team on the same attacking wavelength)
3) Better discipline
4) No TOL, DOC or Darcy
5) Madigan, Marshall, McAllister, Hagan, Tuohy, Henry, EOM, Jones all to get time somewhere
6) Earls as a winger
7) Lots of vocal support from the Irish supporters at the game.

Well i may be ridiculous Golden but i do think that Ireland should be planning for the future (keeping an eye on 2015) and start phasing out some of the players that wont be around next year.

I see absolutely no problem in that way of thinking. I dont agree with your point of view but i am not going to say that its ridiculous, each to their own.

Taylorman
I have been very impressed with Aaron Smiths ball distribution, I cannot recal Dan Carter ever playing out side a half back that can give that much space.

Golden, I agree with you about it not being about age but about how good you are....or should be.

But I can't agree that we shouldn't be starting our planning for the future - not the next WC - but certainly the AIs and the next Six Nations.

I have no problem with a 'mature' player playing in a certain game if they bring something (still have something to contribute) - afterall, Paul O'Connell is also in that bracket now, not just O'Gara. The problem I do have is that for other games they shouldn't be even on the bench. We are having bad results anyway by keeping selection conservative, we might as well make something positive about them by testing the players who might be our future.

sorry for repeating points others have made...didn't read them early enough..

Ive no problem planning for the future but 4 years down the road is where some people have their eyes set. Whether a player will be there in 2015 should have no bearing over if they travel to New Zealand.

SecretFly wrote:
I have no problem with a 'mature' player playing in a certain game if they bring something (still have something to contribute) - afterall, Paul O'Connell is also in that bracket now, not just O'Gara. The problem I do have is that for other games they shouldn't be even on the bench. We are having bad results anyway by keeping selection conservative, we might as well make something positive about them by testing the players who might be our future.

That is what i meant apologies if that didnt come across or if I came across as dismissive. What i mean is if theres a proven player and he is still performing to the standard required they should be kept around the squad and not discarded. Like i said I want madigan there as well and I dont want darcy or Doc there.

Is this really going to be DK's "Great Leap Forward" ?

It is good to see so many of us in agreement that DOC, Darcy and TOL aren't wanted in the squad but more importantly for the inclusion of the likes of Toner, Cave and Marshall who have very few caps between them.

If this many of us are in agreement on that SURELY Declan has to see it too!

It's onl going to be 3 years after the NZ tour golden. Given that we had no changes in the lead up to RWC 2011 due to it being an RWC year and the need for a settled team it severely narrows the scope. No doub because next year is a lions year we will see changes kept to a minimum to 'be fair' to our established players and then we will have arguments in 2014 because you won't be able to drop lions players after all.

There is always a reason to maintain the status quo and not look to the future but that's what we have done and we have an ageing POC, doc, D'arcy, bod, ROG, redda still propping up our squad. Change doesn't have to be permanent and by not taking some older guys we also acknowledge the demands placed on pro rugby players and the fact that they aren't as young but I digress.

As a general rule we should be taking the best players in their positions regardless of age but had we done that would Brian O'Driscoll have been capped against australia many moons ago.
Sometimes we have to take a chance on a young player and look for what could possibly be 3/4/5 years down the line. I would much rather cap some young guys who haven't maybe earned it and unearth that one gem thats a game breaker, than opt for a safety first (he isn't quite as good as our 30+ year old incumbent) in which we waste valuable time or indeed a valuable career.

This tour to NZ is, as far as I can see, the perfect opportunity. Before anyone talks about rankings we are not likely to win a game anyway so I see no harm in throwing young guys in. Not all at once I agree but say 3/4 in one test and the same in another with a mix of both in the 3rd. Would Alex cuthbert and George north have caps if they were Irish? I'm not sure at all.

Standulstermen wrote:

This tour to NZ is, as far as I can see, the perfect opportunity. Before anyone talks about rankings we are not likely to win a game anyway so I see no harm in throwing young guys in. Not all at once I agree but say 3/4 in one test and the same in another with a mix of both in the 3rd. Would Alex cuthbert and George north have caps if they were Irish? I'm not sure at all.

Thats the right attitude I reckon. If the players selected have real potential having them in a full 3 tests series here must see them right at least for the AI's/ WCup positions as at least those matches wont be (or at least shouldnt be) harder than 3 matches here. 3 matches is enough to try things differently at least twice if things arent working so making it an opportunity is defintely the right approach.

Getting the mix is still crucial so you don't go dropping a ROGtype purely cos hes past it. There must be a legitimate replacement otherwise his presence here due to his experience and in the AI's might be more valuable.

But he's had 10 go's at the AB's. Surely someone else deserves a turn on that basis?

Taylorman wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:laurie;

Dagg
Gear/Maitland
Smith
Nonu/Sonny Bill
Guildford
DC?
?
Read
McCaw
?
Whitelock
?
Franks
?
Franks

The All Blacks shouldn't be far off their team that ended the world cup. With some retirees though and lack of S15 spectating I am struggling to list players in certain positions. I would imagine a few new caps against Ireland though.

Gosh does look glum at the moment in terms of currents.

Even of the non ??? above Carter and Mccaw are yet to play. Nonu is part rubbish at the mo...Woodcock will be there and starts tomorrow. So will Jayne. Thompson and Hores going well. Mealamu and Toeava's stuffed. SBW's going well.

In fact our best players in the sxv at the moment are mostly not AB's- Aaron Smith, Perenara, Anscombe, Barrett, Tyler B...

hmmm...

No problem mates we'll scrape together a team .
Hores doing okay
That Chief Rettalick can stand beside Whitelock
Thompson is on fire and Vito is playing okay.
Cruden is the starting incumbent 1st five and is doing alright
Kahui is doing alright and I think Tamati Ellison is playing very well.
Half back is the only real problem and I reckon one of Smith, Perenara and Kerr Barlow will make the step up this year or next.
Just look to the Highlanders, Chiefs and Hurricanes to save the day

I'd love to see Madigan start at 10 against the Barbarians. He's the 2nd highest try scorer in the Pro12 and I believe he's scored more tries than any other flyhalf in Europe this season. His passing is sublime. Makes you gasp in amazement sometimes. Could easily be a scrumhalf I'd say. His step is great and he makes so many breaks. Most of the tries he's scored, he's made them himself.

Sure he's quite small and is untested. He might get steamrolled at test level but he might excel. We just don't know until we give him a chance. It would also give us an instant solution to the 12 problem. Sexton is very good there, and could still take the kicks to take the pressure off Madigan and let him focus on playing. Like someone said above Kearney is a very good kicker too. McFadden has one of the highest kicking percentages in Europe. Around 90%.

I'd still take ROG though. But he wouldn't necessarily be central to my plans.

At the end of the day though, no matter whose playing, if the coaches don't make serious changes to the way we play, we're going to get three definite hidings from the All Blacks.

nganboy wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:laurie;

Dagg
Gear/Maitland
Smith
Nonu/Sonny Bill
Guildford
DC?
?
Read
McCaw
?
Whitelock
?
Franks
?
Franks

The All Blacks shouldn't be far off their team that ended the world cup. With some retirees though and lack of S15 spectating I am struggling to list players in certain positions. I would imagine a few new caps against Ireland though.

Gosh does look glum at the moment in terms of currents.

Even of the non ??? above Carter and Mccaw are yet to play. Nonu is part rubbish at the mo...Woodcock will be there and starts tomorrow. So will Jayne. Thompson and Hores going well. Mealamu and Toeava's stuffed. SBW's going well.

In fact our best players in the sxv at the moment are mostly not AB's- Aaron Smith, Perenara, Anscombe, Barrett, Tyler B...

hmmm...

No problem mates we'll scrape together a team .
Hores doing okay
That Chief Rettalick can stand beside Whitelock
Thompson is on fire and Vito is playing okay.
Cruden is the starting incumbent 1st five and is doing alright
Kahui is doing alright and I think Tamati Ellison is playing very well.
Half back is the only real problem and I reckon one of Smith, Perenara and Kerr Barlow will make the step up this year or next.
Just look to the Highlanders, Chiefs and Hurricanes to save the day

Yeah I agree. We're being a bit doubtful I think only because the obvious 15 is no longer obvious. New coaches etc. We're a bit like Arthur without his sword at the moment, especially when we look at the NH who have everything in full swing at test level.

The quality of the Highlanders and Chiefs so early is a real bonus and with the WCup pressures gone and positions up for grabs there's a real hunger out there to perform, particularly impressed with the 9's and 10's out there.

Lock is still our biggest problem and made worse when the hugely under rated rock Thorne has gone. Like it or not SBW looks in for a good year (at a cheap price looking at his current league negotiations).

Last time Ireland went down to NZ they had a bunch of new faces and an untried team. They shipped their worst ever defeat but that was because two of their most crucial players in Heaslip and ROG managed to get sent off the pitch. The tour had the same result as the one before but at least some valuable experience was gained.

That should be the approach for this tour. Expose young players now and show them the level they need to aspire to. The result of the games would be the same and although the scoreline might be a bit embarrassing, it might actually take the team forward. Ireland aren't ready to compete with the ABs YET. They need to get a lot better first and simply playing the same old faces will deliver the same old results. Of course I have no faith in Kidney taking the long term view anymore and he will just use as much damage limitation as he can.

Not too much different lads, think it's time for a few players to be cut, just for long term succession planning. Donncha O'Callaghan, Gordon D'Arcy, Paddy Wallace, David Wallace spring to mind. We just need to invest playing time in their successors.

I'd take the below. First choice is listed first, followed by the other players in each position. O'Brien and Henry also cover number 8.

1) Healy, Court, McAllister
2) Best, Cronin, Varley
3) Ross, Hagan, Archer
4) Ryan, Tuohy
5) O'Connell, Toner
6) Ferris, O'Brien
7) O'Mahony, Henry, Jennings
8) Heaslip
9) Murray, Reddan, Marshall
10) Sexton, ROG, Madigan
11) Zebo, Fitzgerald
12) O'Driscoll, McFadden
13) Earls, Cave
14) Bowe, Trimble
15) Kearney, Jones

Standulstermen wrote:It's onl going to be 3 years after the NZ tour golden. Given that we had no changes in the lead up to RWC 2011 due to it being an RWC year and the need for a settled team it severely narrows the scope.

My point exactly, the RWC 2015 is not the be all to end all but if Ireland dont start phasing out some players then there could be issues with big match experience within the younger lads. I am all for steady as she goes but tours like this are designed to bring in fresh players in my eyes. I would hazard a guess that ROG wont be playing for Ireland next 6N so see no value in taking him on the tour.

On the subject of Out-Halves: in a way you can never have enough of them -and you can usually tell how they are going to progress after 10 minutes - e.g. Farrell of England. A few Misses around too inc some one cap Irish players of old.

For all positions - not sure New Zealand is the best place to try a lot of youngsters out? - but there are still plenty of HC seasoned guys out there who could be given a go.

As for Sexton moving to 12 longer term - a certain Mr C.M.H.Gibson made the same move in an Irish shirt many years ago and never looked back.

Different era and a different game now. This isn't like Ryan switching sides in the scrum. We are talking about two specialist positions. Sexton is 25/26 unless I am mistaken and is the current number one fly half in Ireland. Madigan is very good and I would like to see him given some gametime but he isn't currently challenging sexton for either Leinster or Ireland and until such times as sexton is under pressure at 10 I really don't think we should be moving him.

If madigan steps it up and continues his improvement then let's consider it. Let's not switch it before then. It's taken long enough for sexton to get the nod in front of ROG on a consistent basis and now we are talking about moving his position for madigan. Let's not turn him into another McFadden.

I agree re Sexton. He is a very good oh. Really not convinced about moving him to centre even though I'm sure he'd do a good job there.

Unfortunately for him he appears to be getting into the frame for 12; there isn't a huge number of up and running alternatives around in that position -

Agree that in Mike Gibson's era OHs were much more plentiful in Ireland than centres - lately there has been a reasonable selection of decent centres but at the moment not and so there's got to be some question marks around 12??

Marshal, Farrell, hanrahan. If wre want a bosher (I don't) then spence. There are 12's coming through and if none of them step up and madigan does then let's consider it.

Not until then. I honestly thinK kidney is trying to appease people by having ROG and sexton on at the same time

I can't see Sexton being used as an actual 12.
He is a 10. A 10 that can play 12 in my eyes and does when needed.

If you put ROG on it makes a lot of sense to take Darcy off rather than Sexton to put width on the game.

Can't see it happening too often and don't really want it to, we just need a 12 I guess then we won't have to.

I can see McFadden being something of a stop gap 12 until one of the 3 Stand mentions are ready

leinsterbaby wrote:

red_stag wrote:Leinsterbaby - do you actually think that bringing him achieves nothing?

Yeah I do. Whats the point? If this years six nations tought us anything its time to weed out the dinos. England and Wales have put faith in the young guns and it has paid off. Dont think Dricos place should even be safe. Look at what a good job Earls has done when given the chance and 13 when he had so many doubters.

Time to stop being so conservative and put faith in good young players.

Im not sure my selection was conservative i simply picked ROG as a backup. Its not conservative if other correct decisions are taken elsewhere in the squad.

Nz are hardly without a team Franks ,Hore[Flynn]Franks[Woodcock/Crockett
Thomson Whitelock Donnelly[Williams]McCaw[Todd]
Read[Vito]
Ellis[one of the young guns
Carter[Cruden/Slade]
CoryJane Conrad Smith Nonu/SBW Kahui
Dagg[Ben Smith]
Add Guildford,Ben Smith,Maitland,Hosea Gear,plus any one of the young guns
at mid field.
Many of the AllBlacks RWC are injured or jaded,Nonu has just returned from
Japan .Fruen .Ranger/Kahui could move in or out.Guildford in an All Black shirt
like Rocokoko before him creates line breaks for others.The headless chicken bit is unfair to him get the Crusaders firing and you will see.Auckland Blues are a hospital ward at the moment ,sadly there Super 15 looks over.
Taylorman want to bet Nonu `s not firing come Ireland tour time.

Yes he may be. He just isnt now and thats typical of him. He actually played quite well Friday against his old pals.

Just too early to say which players will be the start xv and for that reason its all a bit up in the air.

D'arcy , O Callaghan and O Learys international careers should be ended.

Heaslip and Trimble should be left off to improve. HEASLIP ESPECIALLY NEEDS A KICK IN THE BACKSIDE.

So talented but seems that tweeting and looking like a pillock on the front of the dubliner magazine is more important. All no 8's he played in the 6N throughly schooled hin.SOB FOR 8!

We have to go and give Wilkinson, Cronin , Donncha Ryan , Dan Touhy , Dominic Ryan , Peter O Mahoney , Paul MarshaLl , either Madigan or keatley need a run to see what they have, Mc Fadden at twelve and Zebo and Jones need at least a 40 also.

Poor games from Hore and Crockett this weekend. NZ rugby is not at it's finest right now I would say. All the Australian players happen to look pretty good though...

Captain Charisma wrote:D'arcy , O Callaghan and O Learys international careers should be ended.

Heaslip and Trimble should be left off to improve. HEASLIP ESPECIALLY NEEDS A KICK IN THE BACKSIDE.

So talented but seems that tweeting and looking like a pillock on the front of the dubliner magazine is more important. All no 8's he played in the 6N throughly schooled hin.SOB FOR 8!

We have to go and give Wilkinson, Cronin , Donncha Ryan , Dan Touhy , Dominic Ryan , Peter O Mahoney , Paul MarshaLl , either Madigan or keatley need a run to see what they have, Mc Fadden at twelve and Zebo and Jones need at least a 40 also.

Fair point about about Heaslip but please give your reasons for leaving out Trimble?

Super 15 form is nebulous early on,winning at Home as most of the Australian
franchises have is the Norm.Winning on the road is the key the Reds are going to have to prove they can.
Crusaders run in is at home this year,and they are notorious slow starters.
Stormers are of to a flyer,BUT lets see how they go off shore in NZ and OZ.

Rava wrote:

Captain Charisma wrote:D'arcy , O Callaghan and O Learys international careers should be ended.

Heaslip and Trimble should be left off to improve. HEASLIP ESPECIALLY NEEDS A KICK IN THE BACKSIDE.

So talented but seems that tweeting and looking like a pillock on the front of the dubliner magazine is more important. All no 8's he played in the 6N throughly schooled hin.SOB FOR 8!

We have to go and give Wilkinson, Cronin , Donncha Ryan , Dan Touhy , Dominic Ryan , Peter O Mahoney , Paul MarshaLl , either Madigan or keatley need a run to see what they have, Mc Fadden at twelve and Zebo and Jones need at least a 40 also.

Fair point about about Heaslip but please give your reasons for leaving out Trimble?

As regards Andrew Trimble he was a correct selection on HC form and has improved as a finisher but unfortunately he lacks at international level.

Poor kicker and positional defender. He also misses an inordinate amount of tackles when kick chasing. He really disappointed me in the 6N and reckon either Simon Zebo or Craig Gilroy have more potential.

Sorry for not lining out my critique on him in the previous post.

Leinster have a young guy who plays 10, but is not a great place kicker or game controller. He can spot a gap has great acceleration and an eye for the tryline - why shouldn't Madigan play 12?

No, no way Zebo and Gilroy will do better than Trimble right away. Zebo may long term. But both of those players have more issues with defensive positioning in their game than Trimble right now.

The Great Aukster wrote:Leinster have a young guy who plays 10, but is not a great place kicker or game controller. He can spot a gap has great acceleration and an eye for the tryline - why shouldn't Madigan play 12?

Personally i feel that Madigan is a better 10 than Sexton which is why i have been screaming for some time that i would like to see Sexton at 12 and Madigan at 10 for Leinster. I dont think that it will be that long in coming either. As for Madigans place kicking not being that good, to me that is a myth. He is behind some decent kickers but he is not a bad kicker as people think. He has an 80%+ sucess rate so thats not too bad

Notch wrote:No, no way Zebo and Gilroy will do better than Trimble right away. Zebo may long term. But both of those players have more issues with defensive positioning in their game than Trimble right now.

Trimble is still a very good winger who had 1 or two bad games but the rest of the 6N he was pretty solid. He is still ahead of Zebo and Dave Kearney but i would like to see him get a run one day.

Anyone else see Zebos amazing try saving tackle at the weekend?

Yup! The one on duffy? Brilliant tackle.

Zeeeeebbbbbbboooooooo!!!!!!

To me he has earned the right to get the #11 jersey even if just against Barbarians.

............. are we walking back to happiness already? Are we all coming round to the idea yet again that maybe, just maybe, the next International period, and three very important games in New Zealand won't be the right time to change things around and try out some of those waiting on the sidelines? Give the So Solid Crew yet another few games to redeem themselves?

It's not about 'leaving out' Trimble or Heaslip or D'arcy, or even Bowe or O'Driscoll... it's about getting real-time, genuine first team experience into a few genuine first team potential players. No better platform than possibly a game or half game against the very best this world has. The changes have to be tested before injury necessity... we're delaying the evolution of Ireland by suggesting Bowe and Trimble shouldn't take a game or two out to allow the possible future some time. These guys are old enough - it's an insult that some constantly say they're not ready. They're as ready as any of their colleagues in Wales and England. They might indeed prove inferior but they are ready to be given the opportunity to try.

I have no doubt that enough new potential will be brought to New Zealand but if someone like Zebo or D. Kearney or Gilroy go, then I'll want to see them on the field. Taking them to provide training ballast for the usuals will not be enough