Rio throwing his toys out of the pram

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Ferdinand's representative: "To treat a player that has captained & served his country 81 times like this is nothing short of disgraceful."
"Total lack of respect from Hodgson & The FA as far as I'm concerned."

Well if you're insinuating that Hodgson didn't pick Rio because he's racist, it's pretty ridiculous.

hoggy no not at all.

I suppose what people mean is!

footballing reason= Is the player good enough for the team, Is the player fit, does the player fit the system

non footballing reason= casue a rift in the squad.

Matry was suggesting that rio was told he wasnt in the team for the footballing reason but in reality its due to the non footballing reason.

Wouldn't there be rift between Terry and the other black players in the England side minus Cole and Glen Johnson.

azania wrote:

Ent wrote:

azania wrote:Valdes isn't. Out of the international keepers around I'd have Casillas near the bottom 10 in europe.

I think Juve going unbeaten should be looked at with suspiscion due to match fixing.

Quite true re Juve.

A bit harsh on Casillas who whilst having plenty of chances to make saves and show himself at Madrid is still a top goalkeeper and he does keep a very good keeper in Reina out of the national side.

I presume you don't mean the San Marinos etc who play in europe?

I'd say he is probably top 5, definately top 10. Who are all better?

Buffon probably the only absolute.

Hart, Cech, Stekelenberg, Neuer maybe?

Akinfeev(injured?), Lloris, Given don't think so.

You named them.

Doesn't put him in the bottom 10 though does it? Nor do I think most of them are better than him. I'd say hes top 5.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Wouldn't there be rift between Terry and the other black players in the England side minus Cole and Glen Johnson.

Tbh Terry was having at one of his team mates missus as well as his general behaviour - the other players are used to just getting on with things with him around.

Ent wrote:

azania wrote:

Ent wrote:

azania wrote:Valdes isn't. Out of the international keepers around I'd have Casillas near the bottom 10 in europe.

I think Juve going unbeaten should be looked at with suspiscion due to match fixing.

Quite true re Juve.

A bit harsh on Casillas who whilst having plenty of chances to make saves and show himself at Madrid is still a top goalkeeper and he does keep a very good keeper in Reina out of the national side.

I presume you don't mean the San Marinos etc who play in europe?

I'd say he is probably top 5, definately top 10. Who are all better?



Buffon probably the only absolute.

Hart, Cech, Stekelenberg, Neuer maybe?

Akinfeev(injured?), Lloris, Given don't think so.

You named them.

Doesn't put him in the bottom 10 though does it? Nor do I think most of them are better than him. I'd say hes top 5.

Sorry but Casillas has been the best goalkeeper in the world now for a good 7/8 years. As good as Buffon is, he has had his fair share of back injuries which haven't help, but Iker has kept out Valdes for god sake, a goalkeeper imo is much better than Reina, who makes far too many big mistakes in a season to be considered a great keeper.

mystiroakey wrote:I suppose what people mean is!

footballing reason= Is the player good enough for the team, Is the player fit, does the player fit the system

non footballing reason= casue a rift in the squad.

Matry was suggesting that rio was told he wasnt in the team for the footballing reason but in reality its due to the non footballing reason.

exactly, spot on. Footballing like you say is playing football form, then anything else is off it like you said.

Ent wrote:

azania wrote:

Ent wrote:

azania wrote:Valdes isn't. Out of the international keepers around I'd have Casillas near the bottom 10 in europe.

I think Juve going unbeaten should be looked at with suspiscion due to match fixing.

Quite true re Juve.

A bit harsh on Casillas who whilst having plenty of chances to make saves and show himself at Madrid is still a top goalkeeper and he does keep a very good keeper in Reina out of the national side.

I presume you don't mean the San Marinos etc who play in europe?

I'd say he is probably top 5, definately top 10. Who are all better?

Buffon probably the only absolute.

Hart, Cech, Stekelenberg, Neuer maybe?

Akinfeev(injured?), Lloris, Given don't think so.

You named them.

Doesn't put him in the bottom 10 though does it? Nor do I think most of them are better than him. I'd say hes top 5.

Lower half of the top 10 imo.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Wouldn't there be rift between Terry and the other black players in the England side minus Cole and Glen Johnson.

Look this isnt neccesarily a black v white thing dude.

mystiroakey wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Wouldn't there be rift between Terry and the other black players in the England side minus Cole and Glen Johnson.

Look this isnt neccesarily a black v white thing dude.

We had Terry vs Gerrard at the WC. Now it's Rio vs Terry because of the race row, you think Walcott, Young, Defoe will be comfortable playing with Terry I don't think so.

It's more to do with Terry v Rio and whos side everyone takes on, England players have too much of a big ego this isn't new. The United and Liverpool players used to stick to thier own players.

I am hoping that there isnt an issue in the england camp. What would that mean- a ready made excuse!!

And if there is one - Hodgson has made one hell of a fkup.

Basically what i am saying is that at present I am giving hodgson a free pass, but if I find out at any later point that there is a rift between any player in the squad and JT. then that pass is ripped up! And that is wether he knows about it or he doesnt- because it is his job to know and act.

They say the Dutch have big egos but I think ours are worse, club rivalry spilling onto the International level where players hate each other as much as fans hate playets of rival clubs.

This era is a massive failure time to focus on the younger lads know. Don't think we have an excuse this time we are plain crap.

the french dealt with it!!

and havent lost in 20 games!!

Why didnt we?

mystiroakey wrote:the french dealt with it!!

and havent lost in 20 games!!

Why didnt we?

Because the French took action against these players no matter how good or influential they are, Evra, Toulalan, Anelka all got bans. They don't care how much of a big name or legend you are if you ain't good enough you won't make the team. There was a problem between the old v young players but they fixed that. It's not only France but other nations who have the balls unlike England to take drastic actions.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:the french dealt with it!!

and havent lost in 20 games!!

Why didnt we?

Because the French took action against these players no matter how good or influential they are, Evra, Toulalan, Anelka all got bans. They don't care how much of a big name or legend you are if you ain't good enough you won't make the team. There was a problem between the old v young players but they fixed that. It's not only France but other nations who have the balls unlike England to take drastic actions.

Ibrahimovic was dropped from the Sweden squad a couple of years ago due to his attitude, despite being by far the best player in the side. This wouldn't happen in England. Gerrard as captain is a joke given his form this season.

I don't understand why people are using the argument that Ferdinand is a more cultured defender so should have been picked, if the two friendlies are anything to go by we're playing anything but cultured football.

Crimey wrote:I don't understand why people are using the argument that Ferdinand is a more cultured defender so should have been picked, if the two friendlies are anything to go by we're playing anything but cultured football.

True. But its football and not hoofball. Plus Rio is a better footballer and can hoof it also. He has perspiration as well as inspiration. Terry has just perspiration. Brawn and no brain.

Crimey wrote:I don't understand why people are using the argument that Ferdinand is a more cultured defender so should have been picked, if the two friendlies are anything to go by we're playing anything but cultured football.

An who were the two teams we played Norway and Belgium hardly quality sides. You'll see the need of a defender like Rio when we go to the Euros playing the best teams in Europe, teams who know how to use the ball and punish us when we give it away.

Possession is so important at the top level, we are hardly blessed in that department so not taking someone who is good on the ball is a bit silly.

Ferdinand had the second highest percentage of passes (at least 100 passes to qualify for the criteria) in the Premierleague from non midfielders after Wayne Rooney.

martyr_94 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I suppose what people mean is!

footballing reason= Is the player good enough for the team, Is the player fit, does the player fit the system

non footballing reason= casue a rift in the squad.

Matry was suggesting that rio was told he wasnt in the team for the footballing reason but in reality its due to the non footballing reason.

exactly, spot on. Footballing like you say is playing football form, then anything else is off it like you said.

To me squad harmony is a footballing issue, but that's just my interpretation.

I don't see how Terry adds to squad harmony. But these are footballers who have kicked their shared single brain cell to the corner flag.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I suppose what people mean is!

footballing reason= Is the player good enough for the team, Is the player fit, does the player fit the system

non footballing reason= casue a rift in the squad.

Matry was suggesting that rio was told he wasnt in the team for the footballing reason but in reality its due to the non footballing reason.

exactly, spot on. Footballing like you say is playing football form, then anything else is off it like you said.

To me squad harmony is a footballing issue, but that's just my interpretation.

your just arguing symatics. You do understand the difference, surely!?

GG wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:the french dealt with it!!

and havent lost in 20 games!!

Why didnt we?

Because the French took action against these players no matter how good or influential they are, Evra, Toulalan, Anelka all got bans. They don't care how much of a big name or legend you are if you ain't good enough you won't make the team. There was a problem between the old v young players but they fixed that. It's not only France but other nations who have the balls unlike England to take drastic actions.

Ibrahimovic was dropped from the Sweden squad a couple of years ago due to his attitude, despite being by far the best player in the side. This wouldn't happen in England. Gerrard as captain is a joke given his form this season.

Does our FA take to much control of this? I would suggest our managers become puppets to some extent

Personally my take on the terry rio debate, is that terry was picked instead of rio.

However if carhil was unavailable whilst the squad was announced - rio may have got the nod over terry

On an unrelated side issue- Dries Mertens should be punished for what he did. I cant believe he is seemingly getting away with that shove. This was a friendly game. He isnt going to the euros, yet he has ruined the tourny for another player and possibly another team. He was blatantly cheating at best.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

Crimey wrote:I don't understand why people are using the argument that Ferdinand is a more cultured defender so should have been picked, if the two friendlies are anything to go by we're playing anything but cultured football.

An who were the two teams we played Norway and Belgium hardly quality sides. You'll see the need of a defender like Rio when we go to the Euros playing the best teams in Europe, teams who know how to use the ball and punish us when we give it away.

Possession is so important at the top level, we are hardly blessed in that department so not taking someone who is good on the ball is a bit silly.

Ferdinand had the second highest percentage of passes (at least 100 passes to qualify for the criteria) in the Premierleague from non midfielders after Wayne Rooney.

We're not going to be playing possession football though. Ferdinand's skills would be wasted in an England team which is playing backs to wall, hit them on the break football. If we're happy to let Belgium and Norway have possession, it seems likely we're going to do the same to France et al, so we may as well take players who will actually work in that system i.e. Terry.

I also think a huge motivating factor in picking Terry was so that three of the back five had been working together for six months, Cahill, Terry and Cole. The reason Ferdinand wasn't called up after injuries was because he wasn't on the standby list, which Jagielka was and Kelly was sort of.

For the record, I wouldn't have taken Terry, but I think the insinuation that Hodgson took Terry for some weird political reasons are ridiculous, if they prove true then they are ridiculous, but if not the people claiming it's the case just aren't thinking it through. If it was political, Ferdinand would be going, and the man charged with racism would be staying at home. It's for footballing reasons, Ferdinand doesn't suit the team in the way that Terry does and Hodgson can't exploit a club relationship with Ferdinand.

Crimey...

If terry and rio didnt have an issue - both would have been taken- that is the reason why he isnt going. We know the rest. Terry was picked 'over' rio for footballing reasons(more due to haveing a 3 man chelsea defense) . But the fact is - and this is very simple rio wasnt picked because of a potential full out. He would have deffo been part of the squad if there was no rift between them.

In a perfect world there wouldnt have been an either or scenario. The 'either or scenario' came from a non football related matter

I don't agree that Ferdinand would have been picked anyway. I think there were genuine serious concerns over his fitness, whether or not he has played 4 games in 20 days before, I believe there was enough concern for it to effect the choice.

I don't think Hodgson would have ever have picked Ferdinand in the squad, because he just doesn't offer him what the other defenders off him. If anything, he's too cultured. He's a defender who thrives on the team having possession and building attacks slowly, with passes from the back.

i think he would have genuingly been picked as a replacement for carhil or terry. i would have stuck with the chelsea partnership tho to start

Ferdinand wasn't going to have been picked after injuries as he wasn't on the standby list and hadn't been training with the rest of the England squad.

we know that- question is why?

we know both sides to that argument- its which one we believe..

mystiroakey wrote:

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I suppose what people mean is!

footballing reason= Is the player good enough for the team, Is the player fit, does the player fit the system

non footballing reason= casue a rift in the squad.

Matry was suggesting that rio was told he wasnt in the team for the footballing reason but in reality its due to the non footballing reason.

exactly, spot on. Footballing like you say is playing football form, then anything else is off it like you said.

To me squad harmony is a footballing issue, but that's just my interpretation.

your just arguing symatics. You do understand the difference, surely!?

I do understand the difference.
But aren't those saying that Rio hasn't been dropped for 'footballing reasons' basing that argument on their own interpretation of what 'footballing reasons' constitute, an interpretation that may differ from Hodgson's?

blimey i didnt expect to be on the other side of a symatics argument so quickly.

btw -your post is messed up would you mind fixing it

Crimey why is Rooney in the squad when he is missing two games and his style of play does not suit England? How has Ferdinand made 81 caps for England when his style of play does not suit England surely they would have dropped him after first couple of games, Carragher should have been the one making that many apps for England after all he is the master of the hit it long style.

In a counter attack system you still need the side to be able to pass the ball how do you counter when you can't get the ball out of defence?

If Ferdinand has played 3 games in 8 days 3 times last season why should there be a concern that he can't do it at the Euros?

completly agree- ferdinand would have been picked.the argument that he wasnt picked because he is basically 'too good a player for the team' is a pretty weak argument..

I'm talking about Roy Hodgson's England, rather than England in general. It seems, if the two friendlies are anything to go by, and I understand they may prove to be useless, but if we can take anything from them, it's that we're going to be playing backs to wall defending and then just hit them on the break. We haven't always tried to play this way.

Rooney does fit that system perfectly, as he's happy to get stuck in, come deep and is able to make a goal from nothing, that's perfect for that style.

It's true you need to be able to get the ball out of defence, but Ferdinand is less capable of playing backs to wall defending, he's used to his team being on top, Manchester United don't often get outplayed facing wave after wave of attack.

The reason there is some concern is because he's 33 years old and has had his fair share of injury problems over the past two years, and his club manager placed doubt on whether he'd be capable of playing that many games. I imagine it's easier to play 3 games in 8 days while in the season as you stay fit etc. but after a few weeks off and then having to go into that kind of intensity, would he be able to cope.]

I feel it was the style of England that contributed more to the selection than his fitness anyway.

Since Rio made his debut as an England player we didn't play possession Football always looked to hit it long and he has always played well for England so why can't he play in Roy's England side?

Chelsea are a top team and a hardly on the backfoot it's not like they play back to the walls, Terry was made to look better with a dedicated DM in Makelele and playing alongside a cultured defender in Carvalho since the two have left he has been exposed more a lot more.

How is Rooney going to work in a counter attacking side when he is playing so deep? You need your main striker to play forward up the pitch the wingers are generally the outlet in a counter attack. What England will do is hold the pressure and when they get it lump it forward and lose the ball straight away. I can't see England able to play three or four precise passes to open up a team on the counter.

You really believe what Sir Alex says especially when it comes to England and international Football, he don't give two hoots about England and his only interest is Man Utd.

Why is it that Ferdinand was able to play in Uniteds pre seasons game last season and the start of the premier league after taking a break in May that's two months.

By the way hoggy i think i undersxtand your point at last. The fact is (i didnt know before) that roy has stated that rio was not picked for footballing reasons.

That is political spin of the highest quality from my pov..

For the record, I don't think Ferdinand should have been left out. But find it odd that people think it was anything but for footballing reasons. If Hodgson was going to be political, and was ever going to pick Ferdinand I am sure he would have left out Terry.

I'm not saying that it's the right decision to leave out Ferdinand, but I'm just showing you that there is a possible footballing reason for Hodgson to leave out Ferdinand.

Hodgson has seen Terry play backs to the wall in games recently so is probably more happy deploying him in the back.

I don't think Rooney will be playing as our main striker, but in the no.10 role, if he is deployed as our main striker, I think Roy will soon see he won't get the most out of him.

Crimey, the media needed a story to run with so they bigged this up.

Look at 9/11 theories in America, people will believe anything.

Exactly. It will also make a nice talking point if England fail...

Crimey - rio has played with terry and cole plenty of times so I don't think that is an issue.

The reality is hodgson didn't want to bring both terry and Ferdinand to avoid a potential fall out. He chose terry for some of the above reasons despite the fact he missed Chelsea's headlining defensive efforts and isn't in great form.

Rio is fit and in good form and has essentially been left out for non footballing reasons of someone else's making entirely.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Crimey, the media needed a story to run with so they bigged this up.

Look at 9/11 theories in America, people will believe anything.

I mean why would Hodgson have any reservations about pairing Terry and Ferdinand anyway. All Terry ever did was call Rio's brother a black c**t...

Water off a ducks back..

I do however agree with Crimey that Terry is far better suited for this current England team which is why he probably got the nod.

Ent, so Hodgson could only take one of Ferdinand and Terry, yet chose to take the one charged with racism? Even though he believes Terry is a worse footballer?

He picked Terry for footballing reasons and anything beyond that is pure speculation. I don't think he was ever going to pick Ferdinand.

Crimey wrote:Ent, so Hodgson could only take one of Ferdinand and Terry, yet chose to take the one charged with racism? Even though he believes Terry is a worse footballer?

He picked Terry for footballing reasons and anything beyond that is pure speculation. I don't think he was ever going to pick Ferdinand.

You misunderstand. There would obviously be issues between the players due to the pending trial (despite Ferdinands reassurances), so for the sake of squad harmony he wanted to just take one and he chose Terry due to some of the reasons you stated (very flawed imo as I've stated above).

Ferdinand was left out for non footballing reasons, he'd be in the squad if it wasn't for all this fallout.

If age form and fitness were issues, quite a few of the players in the squad wouldn't be getting picked - including the captain.

I haven't misunderstood anything.

You agree with me, that Terry was chosen over Ferdinand because Hodgson believes Terry is the more valuable player in his squad.

What I am saying is that you're then just making pure speculation that Ferdinand was left out altogether because of the upcoming trial, I'm also speculating that Ferdinand was always going to be left out.

Our views are both purely speculative, so are equally valuable. I believe it's due to the style of football England are planning to play, you think it's because Hodgson didn't want to risk the squad harmony (which I think is risked including Terry in any sense anyway)

If you think the england set up are picking players based on this suppsoed way we are gonna play- then id probally say you are giving us/england to much credit Crimey

What a strange comment.

Are you suggesting Hodgson hasn't picked players based on how he wants to play? Which player doesn't fit into the side then?

I guess we will have to disagree then.

I don't agree with any of the points you have made re styles of play etc.

Another issue is for me it was never a case of Terry vs Ferdinand for selection, I think he should have picked both on merit (as described throughout the thread) - hence I think Ferdinand was unfairly left out for other reasons.

I don't really care, glad hes getting a rest.

Crimey wrote:What a strange comment.

Are you suggesting Hodgson hasn't picked players based on how he wants to play? Which player doesn't fit into the side then?

you are saying that england are not picking one of best ,most experienced and most veristile players for football reasons??

work it out yourself pal.

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Haven't read the thread but back Rio 100%. Disgraceful behaviour by Roy and the FA, inexcusable.

How is it taking a stand against racism when you take a racist subject to criminal charges who has had a cack season ahead of Rio. Not football reasons at all. It's Terry's racism being excused.

England are a joke.

Terry hasn't been found guilty of anything concerning racism.

He's a racist, it's only been rumour before but now he's been caught red handed. The fact that his court case has been delayed so he can play in the Euro's is not important, though it is disappointing.

However note I said 'subject to criminal charges', not that he's been found guilty.