Ireland V All Blacks - Teams Announced and Matchday Thread

[clivemcl]

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND TEAM

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Ronan Loughney (Galwegians/Connacht) *
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)


NZ Team

15 Israel Dagg,
14 Zac Guildford,
13 Conrad Smith,
12 Sonny Bill Williams,
11 Julian Savea,
10 Dan Carter,
9 Aaron Smith,
8 Kieran Read,
7 Richie McCaw (capt),
6 Victor Vito,
5 Sam Whitelock,
4 Brodie Retallick,
3 Owen Franks,
2 Andrew Hore,
1 Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Ali Williams, Adam Thomson, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith.

Tour Previews:
http://www.v2journal.com/irelands-summer-tour.html
http://www.v2journal.com/new-zealands-june-tests-preview.html

[Rava]

I think we were lucky that wasn't a bigger margin. Feic a really good team would have put us to the sword

[ME-109]

Hook its like this....

ah hell there is no point in trying to educate the ignorant....

[Biltong]

Commisserations to me Irish mates, Congratulations to Nz, great display.

[doctor_grey]

Just remember this was the ABs frost match after a short amount of time to prepare............

[Notch]

A lot of negatively, but I thought the pack did pretty well for most of the match. Murray's passing was slow at times and a couple of bad box kicks but did ok. Sexton did not too bad but needs quicker ball. The outside backs were an utter shambles. I don't know who is to blame, the IRFU or Kidney, but why on earth we don't have a backs coach is beyond me. They look utterly clueless.

Its been like that for 3/4 years now. I wonder does anyone at the IRFU notice it?

I know, I'll pen them a stiff letter... that'll sort it.

Thank Christ that's over.

Les Kiss now coaches our backline in both defence and attack. Since he started coaching us in attack our attacking play has got no better- but our defending sure has got worse!

[rodders]

Is Oz v Wales on now?

[chewed_mintie]

Well played NZ, they clicked into test mode effortlessly (unlike our convict cousins) and played clinically in the first half. Wasn't a vintage effort by any means but in saying that, look out Ireland, I think NZ can go up 2-3 gears.

One thing I have noticed in the last couple of seasons is Carter's use of the pin-point low kickoff. Nullifies the assisted lift to catch and makes every kickoff a 1 on 1 contest like a basketball tipoff. It is certainly a weapon, you need only see Read's effort which nearly resulted in him scoring.

Pretty happy with that first up effort, so much for slow starting!

[kiakahaaotearoa]

We lost shape after the substitutions but we finished with hunger and that was pleasing to see. Smith was my standout AB as in Conrad but thought his namesake at halfback had a good debut as did Savea.

We won't be happy with the breakdown. We need to blow those Irish players off the ball as they stole or slowed down too much ball. Great to see Carter running freely and the pack looked a useful unit.

Means nothing though for next week. ABs must be as clinical and keep the same pace because this Irish unit seems unable to tackle for such long periods of the game without losing their defensive shape.

All in all a very handy start from Hansen's men but certainly things to work on for next time. SBW for example is a heavily marked man and he has to be used smarter.

[Pal Joey]

Simply awesome from the ABs... it was like they'd been together forever. A slick performance.

Commiserations Ireland - battled hard there early on before the flood gates opened. It was a crack unit they came up against tonight.

[kingjohn7]

NZ just awesome, unlucky boys that u playing them.
Have to agree the Irish backs look Poopie, even kearney dropped a high ball.
Sexton does look the best/1of FH in home nations but when playing for Ireland looks really average. Do u guys reckon its a confidence thing?(not just today, most people would have looked poor against NZ)

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Right, one down, two to go (both today, and in the series). Next Saturday could be special, 1st test match in Christchurch since the earthquake.

See you all over on the Wales thread in a bit, my (Cork-lass) flatmate gave up on the game 20 minutes ago and has cooked brekkie

[Duty281]

Ireland didn't play badly, it's just that New Zealand were better in every department. Ireland probably didn't deserve to be beaten by 32 points but that's just the way it goes and I can see an easy 3-0 here for New Zealand.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

The story of the match for me was the comparison between two young talented uncapped wingers. I can't even think of one simile or metaphor that accurately describes the chasm between those two players, a microcosm of the match as a whole.

[Rory_Gallagher]

That was just depressing. I actually think our pack did well, though Tuohy didn't do enough unfortunately. In the first half especially our pack couldn't have provided a better platform, and I was really happy with how Fitzpatrick did. Our backs just don't know what to do though. We can't penetrate any decent defences. I just don't think we have good enough backs at this level.

Also, Zebo and McFadden were so badly exposed, it was embarrassing. Especially McFadden.

[Thomond]

NZ just awesome, unlucky boys that u playing them.
Have to agree the Irish backs look Poopie, even kearney dropped a high ball.
Sexton does look the best/1of FH in home nations but when playing for Ireland looks really average. Do u guys reckon its a confidence thing?(not just today, most people would have looked poor against NZ)

It's a combingation of a lot of things. With Ireland, Sexton's pack isn't usually as dominant as the Leinster one. He struggles with slow ball from Murray and a lack of back play (it was imprvoed for the first 20/30 minutes today). Sexton can struggle when his pack don't dominate, as most OHs do. He is also lacking confidence as he is constantly hauled off for ROG.


Zebo wasn't as bad as you make out Hook. He was bad but not that bad.

[Rory_Gallagher]

And I love how DOD immediately turns this into a slagging match between the provinces. Wise up man, for goodness sake.

[littlejohn]

We lost shape after the substitutions but we finished with hunger and that was pleasing to see. Smith was my standout AB as in Conrad but thought his namesake at halfback had a good debut as did Savea.

Fully agree mate - Conrad looks like the complete player to me - interesting to hear the commentators talk about swapping carter and smith around

[Golden]

There are some postives to take from the match though, mainly
http://www.kidneyclock.net/

[Gibson]

HUP HOLLAND!

[Rory_Gallagher]

It's a combingation of a lot of things. With Ireland, Sexton's pack isn't usually as dominant as the Leinster one. He struggles with slow ball from Murray and a lack of back play (it was imprvoed for the first 20/30 minutes today). Sexton can struggle when his pack don't dominate, as most OHs do. He is also lacking confidence as he is constantly hauled off for ROG.


Zebo wasn't as bad as you make out Hook. He was bad but not that bad.

He didn't say he was THAT bad, he said there was a huge gap in talent between Savea and Zebo. Which there was. Also, Murray could not have had a better platform to work from, or quicker ball, than he was provided. Our forwards did very well IMO, Best, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Ryan, Healy.. I think they should all feel very proud, and also feel disappointed in their backs.

[littlejohn]

The story of the match for me was the comparison between two young talented uncapped wingers. I can't even think of one simile or metaphor that accurately describes the chasm between those two players, a microcosm of the match as a whole.

Think you've exaggerated this one - AB backline did dominate overall but was fairly even in the pack - Ireland probably edged the breakdown but New Zealand simply are more decisive and accurate with their chances. Ireland in the first half did have chances in AB 22 but fluffed - AB looked like scoring from every decent bit of possesion

[Gibson]

There are some postives to take from the match though, mainly
http://www.kidneyclock.net/

Love it! Must make it my screensaver.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

I thought Zebo overall was poor. He did run the ball well a couple of times, but positionally and in defence he was way out of his depth. He wast helped I think playing with two centres who looked like they had never met each other before. BOD and Earls exposed Zebo as much as his own frailties and inexperience in all fairness. He is young and he needs this experience. If we want him to be a top class winger we need to expose him to these matches for him to learn about the international game. I would pick him for all three tests personally. McFadden was absolutely dreadful. A decent enough centre but not an international winger in a million years. Andrew Trimble must be absolutely gutted after that match to see who Kidney rates ahead of him.

[littlejohn]

There are some postives to take from the match though, mainly
http://www.kidneyclock.net/

did you make that? lol!

[rodders]

Justice for Zeeeeebbbbbooooo!!!

Good luck Wales

[Rory_Gallagher]

IMO Ireland did win the breakdown battle, which was a massive positive, at least in the first half. Ireland just did nothing with that advantage at all, and the forwards started to tire in the second half.

[chewed_mintie]

Did anyone notice how little O'Brien carried today? He figured on defence and at the breakdown but personally I expected him to give Ireland impetus on attack

[Rory_Gallagher]

Did anyone notice how little O'Brien carried today? He figured on defence and at the breakdown but personally I expected him to give Ireland impetus on attack

He did carry, but not that effectively. Never got any real chances to impose himself on the field. Did anyone though?

[Golden]

There are some postives to take from the match though, mainly
http://www.kidneyclock.net/

did you make that? lol!

I wish. No, someone posted it up on one of the threads.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

I thought O'Brien had a very good match indeed. His breakdown play was excellent, but I agree we lacked a player who carries the ball well. I don't think that guy is O'Mahony, who was good today, thought he does carry at times for Munster effectively. We missed Ferris in that respect today. We had a lot of good possession today, and though Murray was slow at times, the use of the ball by the back line probably makes his distribution look worse that it maybe was. I'd have to watch the game again, but I don't really want to!

[littlejohn]

Did anyone notice how little O'Brien carried today? He figured on defence and at the breakdown but personally I expected him to give Ireland impetus on attack

He did carry, but not that effectively. Never got any real chances to impose himself on the field. Did anyone though?

Heaslip looked alright going forward - had a pretty aggressive game all round. O'Brien seemed to try and step everytime before going into contact rather than running at full tilt - not sure why though....

[Portnoy]

New Zealand were very good, but looked liked they were in third gear and could have stepped it up if they wanted. The score flattered us if truth be told. In offense in the first half our backs looked ok, Earls looked sharp and Zebo did not too bad. But in defense they were as poor as I have seen an Irish back line in a long time. I honestly can't remember a worse performance from BOD in an international.

Bod wan't on top form was he? He was worse last year when preparing for his high society wedding.

Personally I thought that he should've been YCed in saving the Read try against.

Was that not a tackle situation and came in from outside the gate?

As I didn't have the sound on, I don't know what the Irish were actually pinged for. But if it was for the side entry, it was cynical, a PT and a YC.

[Rory_Gallagher]

It is because he took the ball completely static each time. No space to run, nothing on when he got the ball. Heaslip I thought was poor in contact.

[blackcanelion]

The next couple of games could be interesting. I think Ireland can pick themselves up. I think there were some very good indivdual efforts. Obviously the scrum will be an issue.

From a NZ perspective, I thought we looked a bit rusty at times. We lost shape in the second half and at times our decision making wasn't as good as it can be. A lot to work on.

[rodders]

Did anyone notice how little O'Brien carried today? He figured on defence and at the breakdown but personally I expected him to give Ireland impetus on attack

Not sure if you noticed mintie..... but we didn't have the ball......

[Rory_Gallagher]

With the backs we have, we won't be causing NZ any trouble whatsoever. I criticised BOD earlier, but rodders is right, he was one of the few guys who actually tried. Kearney wasn't as good as usual, but I think he was still one of the bright sparks as well.

[Rava]

New Zealand were very good, but looked liked they were in third gear and could have stepped it up if they wanted. The score flattered us if truth be told. In offense in the first half our backs looked ok, Earls looked sharp and Zebo did not too bad. But in defense they were as poor as I have seen an Irish back line in a long time. I honestly can't remember a worse performance from BOD in an international.

Bod wan't on top form was he? He was worse last year when preparing for his high society wedding.

Personally I thought that he should've been YCed in saving the Read try against.

Was that not a tackle situation and came in from outside the gate?

As I didn't have the sound on, I don't know what the Irish were actually pinged for. But if it was for the side entry, it was cynical, a PT and a YC.

The pen was for Zebo holding back the AB winger. But as per you show your dislike for BOD something you have been consistent about for a long time.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Who actually tried creating any attacking opportunities I mean.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

I felt bad for Earls who may have missed a couple of tackles, but he ran his wee legs off trying to cover tackles. He tried really hard, but BOD was as poor as I have ever seen him in truth. Maybe he was worse last season but right now its hard to remember. BOD showed in the Heineken cup he is still a force to be reckoned with and I truly think we need to stick with this 12/13 combo in the medium term. However, we need to decide who is 12 and who is 13 and stop switching them in the match. We can't just jettison players and combos after one match. I'm a big advocate of Cave but I didn't even realise he had come on until he should have been yellow carded.

[The Boss]

Morning lads, just to say there is very little Ireland could have done against that NZ team today. They were simply awesome. Cut Ireland to pieces on the counter-attack. For the 1st half Ireland didn't deserve to be so far behind but the ABs were just ruthless.

Front Row- Fitzpatrick played very well and contributed to a solid scrum. Needs game time to improve fitness. Best workes hard as usual. Solid game without being spectacular. Solid lineout. Healy played well in the loose and did a lot of goodwork at the breakdown.

2nd Row- Tuohy was very quiet tonight in my eyes. Would stick with him but. Ryan played OK. Worked hard and did his best to cross the gainline consistently.

Back Row- POM- Plays like a man possessed. A lot of aggression and good work at the break down. Especially 1st half along with SOB, who I thought was exceptional in the 1st half. Couple of handling errors but continued to try hard even when things weren't going great. 2 standout players. Heaslip- Not going to agree with the majority. Thought he started poorly but did put a lot of effort in carrying in the 2nd half and never gave up.

Half Backs - Murray can produce very quick ball when he wants but slows it down a bit too much for my liking. Very solid defensively. Sexton did OK but nothing to write home about. Struggled with slow ball and mix up with Kearney for Savea's 3rd? Try.
Didn't understand why Kidney brought Reddan on after taking Sexton off?

Centres- Couple of eyecatching tackles and worked hard in defence but Neither of the 2 of them will include the match in their career highlights. Worked well together to prevent Read's break from becoming a try. Couple of uncharacteristic passing errors by BOD. Earls unable to show his attacking skills.

Backline- Poor defensively. Kearney was as quiet as I've seen him in a long time. Cut inside too often when counterattacking for my liking. Zebo looked OK with ball in hand and I'll excuse him defensively for the most part. Making his debut against that AB team was never going to be easy. McFadden scored a try but wasn't great defensively. Wasn't sure if he was offside for the 2nd try?

Well that's my 2 cents worth anyway. And as I don't think many oif yas know what parrt of Ireland I'm from then I'm hoping I won't be accused of provincial bias.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

REACTION FROM THE IRISH PERSPECTIVE:

Healy- Did really well around the park, breakdown work was awesome and scrummaging was good. Poor guy was suffering big time during the game.
Best- Good lineout overall. Great defence particularily on AB crash balls. Pretty good showing. Made a lot of impact at the breakdown too.
Fitzp- Excellent in the scrum. Would Ross have done so well? Made some big tackles in the first 30 too. Horrifically out of shape. I think he could be really good if he is put on an exercise bike for a while.
Ryan- Never stopped even on 79min. good work in ruck and lineout and his defence was very solid. really like him as a player. Was a constant menace to AB 's attack IMO.
Tuohy- Would have liked to have seen him with ball more, everything he did he did well I thought. Missed 1 tackle that is the only blemish I could find w/o being spectacular ever really.
POM- Was hoping for more I have to say, he looked slow, should have drifted for Savea's 2nd. His work at the breakdown was quite good I thought. Again would have like to have seen him carrying more.
SOB- Best player we had I thought. Did really well on the deck and carrying in first 60mins. Saw as the game went on he tired and knocked on twice. Need him running wider channels.
Heaslip- His best game in a while I thought overall. Nice to see him with ball in hand more often. Good work in defence also. You could see him urging the pack on, critical with POC out, Best did the same.
Murray- Poor service when we really needed quick ball and the forwards provided it at times. Very disappointed, would start Reddan next week. His pass wasn't as accurate as it normally is either.
Sexton- Defended SBW and Carter well. He varied the game well and threw in some nice kicks and passes into space. Seemed to relish having Earls and BOD in the centres. Needs to get Kearney into the line (maybe a coaching issue on set plays and tactics).
Zebo- Solid debut. I was impressed I have to say by his industry, missed a tackle or two but overall he played well.
BOD- Was up there at our best moment and down with out worst. He was the biggest threat to the Kiwi defence but missed a bad tackle on Cruden and that offload was poor even if Murray's pass stunted his momentum he should have done better. Overall he did well but possibly tried too hard.
Earls- Same as BOD he looked really good at times with ball in hand. was at fault for Savea's first, that is where I feel his defence is poor-positioning. As a whole I thought he had a pretty good game though.
McFadden- Didn't get much ball. Showed how much pace he has. Defence was good, his defensive decision making was excellent IMO. He, Zebo and Kearney need to work on counterattacking patterns.
Kearney- Mixed bag but more good than bad. Made all his tackles, ran well Savea charge apart. We need to hit him coming into the line more often.

Bench- Loughney was poor. Cronin nothing much shown. DOC lots of energy but not much results wise from that energy. McL didn't really see. Reddan looks good I think, behind a retreating pack he played well. ROG made some poor decisions and wish DK had stayed with Sexton. Cave looked quite poor too for Smiths try and also giving away a stupid penalty.


POSITIVES:
Breakdown work was excellent. Huge plus here with Healy Best, Ryan, SOB, Heaslip excelling.
Attack was much more varied. We moved the AB's and challenged them at times, with quicker ball we probably would have gone in for a second try.
Scrum was awesome. Fitzpatrick and Tuohy really held up their side well and we probably had dominance prior to that pair going off and Healy getting mashed a it.
Lineout was solid. I don't recall losing one except to a crooked throw.
Defence against SBW was surprising good, AB's identified it though and then attacked elsewhere.

Earls and BOD were good as were Tuohy and Ryan. Front row were excellent too.

NEGATIVES:
We need quick ball. Full stop. For the ball and territory we had we should have scored a try more.
We were quite poor in defence albeit we played the best attacking team in the world. Too many missed tackles by the end and there were times you could tell in defence that there were new combinations that need time together. This was a huge deal over the 80 minutes.
We shouldn't have taken Sexton off.
Our kick chase was quite poor and was offset by a very good AB chase which pressurised our back 3.

I think 9 is a pivotal position and has such an influence on the game and Murray was poor IMO.

[chewed_mintie]

Did anyone notice how little O'Brien carried today? He figured on defence and at the breakdown but personally I expected him to give Ireland impetus on attack

Not sure if you noticed mintie..... but we didn't have the ball......

To be fair rodders, Ireland had a lot of ball in that first 20 mins. That was when you needed guys getting over the gainline, to have any chance of picking up early points. Ireland made a load of half breaks through Earls and a couple of other guys but you needed a guy like O'Brien to keep the momentum going. Possession stats weren't that bad were they? something liek 45% to 55%?

[kiakahaaotearoa]

It should've been a yellow card though. No difference to ROG on Jane the last time they met and if that's not cynical play worthy of a yellow card when NZ was hot on attack then I don't know what is.

I think Owens let both sides to go offside and the gap at the lineout was non existent for most of the match. That said, I think he was consistent in his refereeing.

[Portnoy]

New Zealand were very good, but looked liked they were in third gear and could have stepped it up if they wanted. The score flattered us if truth be told. In offense in the first half our backs looked ok, Earls looked sharp and Zebo did not too bad. But in defense they were as poor as I have seen an Irish back line in a long time. I honestly can't remember a worse performance from BOD in an international.

Bod wan't on top form was he? He was worse last year when preparing for his high society wedding.

Personally I thought that he should've been YCed in saving the Read try against.

Was that not a tackle situation and came in from outside the gate?

As I didn't have the sound on, I don't know what the Irish were actually pinged for. But if it was for the side entry, it was cynical, a PT and a YC.

What part of my analysis was wrong Rava?

The pen was for Zebo holding back the AB winger. But as per you show your dislike for BOD something you have been consistent about for a long time.

[Gretgael1]

SOB played a great game. Healy, Best and Ryan were good. McFadden was badly exposed, he can't start again. We looked clueless in the backs. When is the last time we actually scored a try from rehearsed move? All of our scores seem opportunistic, which normally isn't a bad thing, but we can't keep on relying on it. We need to make our own luck, we're in bad need of a backs coach.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

New Zealand were very good, but looked liked they were in third gear and could have stepped it up if they wanted. The score flattered us if truth be told. In offense in the first half our backs looked ok, Earls looked sharp and Zebo did not too bad. But in defense they were as poor as I have seen an Irish back line in a long time. I honestly can't remember a worse performance from BOD in an international.

Bod wan't on top form was he? He was worse last year when preparing for his high society wedding.

Personally I thought that he should've been YCed in saving the Read try against.

Was that not a tackle situation and came in from outside the gate?

As I didn't have the sound on, I don't know what the Irish were actually pinged for. But if it was for the side entry, it was cynical, a PT and a YC.

The pen was for Zebo holding back the AB winger. But as per you show your dislike for BOD something you have been consistent about for a long time.

Portnoy's actually talking about the earlier incident when Read nearly scored off the kickoff - the Zebo penalty was a few minutes later Rava. BOD came in and stopped Read from getting across the line. Personally I thought it what BOD did OK, the tackle was still in progress (otherwise Read would have been guilty of double movement).

[The Great Aukster]

The pack were heroic, but the backs were shambolic.

Don't think any of that Ireland team would even make the All Black bench so the next two tests will be chastening.

[Rory_Gallagher]

The pack were heroic, but the backs were shambolic.

Don't think any of that Ireland team would even make the All Black bench so the next two tests will be chastening.

Agree with the first statement entirely. I think that best describes the game.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Ireland have the advantage of not needing to worry about what happened today. Maybe they can even use it as motivation to channel their anger into a better defensive play. What happens in one game does not have any bearing on what happens in the next.

Though if Healy is out it could well get ugly in the scrums... Here's hoping he recovers. Centres and wings need to sharpen up their defence and that is what Ireland have to work on most of all I feel this week.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I agree with many here about how much attacking ball we had in the first 30 and that we didn't get over the gainline as much as we should have but that is down to slow ball. It's hard to go forward when the defence is set. Quick ball is so, so, so important.

I thought Sexton did well and really want to see him BOD and Earls again, I never liked earls at 13 but maybe he just needed BOD to help him out. they weren't perfect and got their wires crossed a few times with ball in hand and in defence but I think they should be retained for the entire tour.

It was Zebo and Kearney who got mixed up for Savea's 3rd try, Sexton was at the bottom of the ruck after tackling SBW.

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