Ireland V All Blacks - Teams Announced and Matchday Thread

[clivemcl]

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND TEAM

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Ronan Loughney (Galwegians/Connacht) *
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)


NZ Team

15 Israel Dagg,
14 Zac Guildford,
13 Conrad Smith,
12 Sonny Bill Williams,
11 Julian Savea,
10 Dan Carter,
9 Aaron Smith,
8 Kieran Read,
7 Richie McCaw (capt),
6 Victor Vito,
5 Sam Whitelock,
4 Brodie Retallick,
3 Owen Franks,
2 Andrew Hore,
1 Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Ali Williams, Adam Thomson, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith.

Tour Previews:
http://www.v2journal.com/irelands-summer-tour.html
http://www.v2journal.com/new-zealands-june-tests-preview.html

[rodders]

Yeah Mintie I don't think you can pin anything on O'Brien...he was one of our best players, he's a marked man these days...

Theres just a lack of invention in our attack, the 3/4 line is too small.... people can criticise Trimble and Bowe but at least they come in field and attack the line.... Earls tried hard but he just puts his head down and runs with the ball in one hand, BOD steps around and looks to off load but there is no real strike threat and attacking patterns... worst off all when we do create opportunites we tend to butcher them with handling errors and by taking the wrong options.....

NZ were a different class today no doubt but how many times did we get into the NZ half and just come away with nothing....its the same old story, lots of huff and puff and effort but the composure and skill is not there when it needs to be... lots of good individual performances but the units don't function.

I don't know where we go from here honestly.... stick Trimble on the wing maybe and dust off and start again.....

[rodders]

The pack were heroic, but the backs were shambolic.

Don't think any of that Ireland team would even make the All Black bench so the next two tests will be chastening.

I don't think the forwards were heroic at all, individually O'Brien, Heaslip, Ryan and most of all Rory Best had great games individually but the restarts were shambolic, the ball carrying was non-existant, Peter O'Mahoney was shown up physically at blindside, the mauling was poor and the scrum disintgrated when Fitzpatrick and Tuohy went off.

I don't think our tight 5 are good enough at this level to be honest and the provinces packs have been really bolstered by the NIQ players.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Rodders would you not consider this performance something of an improvement to the 6N considering the opposition? I thought we did ok and there were some encouraging things

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Meant to say the restarts were god f-ing awful

[Golden]

Ross or Fitzpatrick in the next test? I would have like Fitzpatrick to start and ross on the bench but with Healy going off injured surely a LH has to be on the bench

[Rory_Gallagher]

The pack were heroic, but the backs were shambolic.

Don't think any of that Ireland team would even make the All Black bench so the next two tests will be chastening.

I don't think the forwards were heroic at all, individually O'Brien, Heaslip, Ryan and most of all Rory Best had great games individually but the restarts were shambolic, the ball carrying was non-existant, Peter O'Mahoney was shown up physically at blindside, the mauling was poor and the scrum disintgrated when Fitzpatrick and Tuohy went off.

I don't think our tight 5 are good enough at this level to be honest and the provinces packs have been really bolstered by the NIQ players.

I don't think O'Mahony was shown up at all honestly. I thought he looked very physical rodders. I think our pack provided a fantastic platform, but you are right there wasn't enough carrying. We had no space, it was all very static. We presented no threat.

[rodders]

Rodders would you not consider this performance something of an improvement to the 6N considering the opposition? I thought we did ok and there were some encouraging things

Nope, same old Pete...just met better opposition today .

[rodders]

O'Mahoney was brushed off to easily by Read Rory for one of the tries.. the blindside has to nail his man when he's defending off the scrum but he allowed his man to offload and it cost us a try.

He had a good game overall though but at this level he's not quite there.

[Rory_Gallagher]

He made a good tackle on Read, stopped him head on, but Read managed to ship the ball. Heaslip should have been there to cover. O'Mahony made some good carries, was good at the breakdown, and made some very good tackles. I thought he looked very physical.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Hook its like this....

ah hell there is no point in trying to educate the ignorant....

Now you understand our dilemma when trying to debate with you.

[yappysnap]

I was impressed with Irelands counter rucking, really had one over NZ there but the problems came along when you guys tried to spread it wide, just never clicked and ended up giving territory to the AB's.

I'd like to see Ire play it tighter next week, keep the ball in the pack and just offload between them and then take the tackles and recycle, force the AB's pack to work hard in defense and hopefully tire them a bit.

Healy, Best, Ryan, O'Brian and Heaslip are all massive ball carriers for their provinces and should be able to work over the AB's pack who have a few lighter players in there.

Only spread it wide when it's really on and please don't kick so often.

[Gretgael1]

POM done only ok. We had no one to punch a hole. Heaslip isn't making any ground carrying and SOB can't be faulted because he's finally doing what we're asking of our 7, stealing and slowing up the ball.

I'm just so disappointed with our backs. I've said it already but when is the last time we've scored from a rehearsed move? Our set piece was good but we looked clueless when it went through the backs hands.

[rodders]

Only spread it wide when it's really on and please don't kick so often.

Sounds so simple doesn't it....

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I thought we played better today than in other games and we tried to attack further out and with a bit more invention, we just came up against the best team in the world.

No way were we perfect but considering the opposition and the new combinations I was relatively happy.

If we need LH cover we can't play Fitz as he can't last 80mins.

I don't think POM was all that great today

[Gretgael1]

Also, I think it says everything when Reddan box kicked close to the AB's line. I couldn't believe it, but it just goes to show that we lack creativity when he felt our best option was to put it in the air in such a good position.

[rodders]

I'm just so disappointed with our backs. I've said it already but when is the last time we've scored from a rehearsed move? Our set piece was good but we looked clueless when it went through the backs hands.

In fairness we have an outside center at inside centre, a winger at outside centre, an inside centre on the wing and a scrum half who can't pass.....other than that things aren't so bad.

[Rory_Gallagher]

O'Brien was certainly the standout and leader in that pack. Would like to see him get more opportunities to run though.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Also, I think it says everything when Reddan box kicked close to the AB's line. I couldn't believe it, but it just goes to show that we lack creativity when he felt our best option was to put it in the air in such a good position.

Yeah and that was pre-thought idea that was decided. it wasn't just Reddan kicking under pressure. Someone thought that would be a good idea!

[Rory_Gallagher]

Our backs need a SERIOUS new look. We need some physicality in there. We need some creativity. We need pace on the ball. Who is going to provide all of this? We have plenty of players to fit the creative category, with O'Driscoll, Sexton and the likes of Madigan, Hanrahan coming through. Kearney is pretty physical (bouncing SBW!) but he is a 15. We need one or two physical wingers, and one physical centre IMO. Who do we have who can do that?

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I agree with that Rory. The go forward ball was missing though due to the slowness though. There were times when AB defenders were getting back and we didn't get the ball out until the line was set again

Phsycaility in the backs is missing but I thought earls and BOD at least challenged the line a bit

[Gretgael1]

Our backs need a SERIOUS new look. We need some physicality in there. We need some creativity. We need pace on the ball. Who is going to provide all of this? We have plenty of players to fit the creative category, with O'Driscoll, Sexton and the likes of Madigan, Hanrahan coming through. Kearney is pretty physical (bouncing SBW!) but he is a 15. We need one or two physical wingers, and one physical centre IMO. Who do we have who can do that?

I'd agree with all that. We need someone like Jamie Roberts in our backs, nothing pretty, just run straight and hard, then get the ball outside to our more creative backs, but this all needs to be done with quick ball.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I think we are better with a clever 12 and a Fourie/Ashley Cooper style 13 outside. Who do we have like that? Is Kearney Jr as powerful as his brother? He has looked it for me. Could he provide a physical presence in the midfield? Spence is the best option atm.

[Gretgael1]

I don't know if Kearney jnr is the powerhouse we need. He's highly rated here but I don't think that's his game. Spence is the only player that comes to mind. I think we need someone to bosh through the middle, just keep on making yards, go through the phases and have people playing off their shoulder.

[Rory_Gallagher]

We don't need a giant IMO, just a guy like Ashely Cooper. Ashley Cooper is 5 foot 11, but he can really make ground. Big runner.

[rodders]

Bottom line is we have 3 top class backs: Bowe, Kearney and Sexton.... the others aren't good enough, thats just the brutal truth about it.

McFadden, Murray, Earls, Trimble...none of these guys are good enough at the highest level...ROG,BOD and Darcy are past it.... we can't afford to keep papering over the cracks, its time to put faith in the likes of Zebo, Gilroy, Kearney jr, Madigan..guys with pace, talent energy and hope they can make the grade before the 2015 RWC.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Murray has potential though rodders - I think he could be good if he gets coached properly.

I hope Leinster play a Madigan - Kearney Jr midfield at some point.

[Gretgael1]

Rodders I'd agree with you to a certain extent but I don't think you should write off Earls. He was quiet today but I think he can produce the goods, still not convinced he's a centre but that's another conversation.

Rory, I think we have skillful backs but I'd like to see some muscle there to give us some momentum. It doesn't have to be a giant, just someone to commit defenders and make ground.

[rodders]

I don't think has the top two inches Rory. Takes the wrong option far to often. He's no delivering at club level, like McFadden and a few others so is it any surprise that they get shown up against the best sides?

No sorry the time for deluding ourselves that these guys are better than they are is over.

Murray is young but he's in his second season of international rugby. No excuses. Earls and McFadden have been around for years and no one can agree on their best positions..why? because they aren't bloody good enough..they have glaring weaknesses in their games that get exposed against the best sides.

Trimble too. Not good enough. Sad but true. Time to look to the next generation.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I agree with you on all those guys but Murray. He has a lovely pass naturally. He does need to improve, but he has the potential.

[rodders]

Rodders I'd agree with you to a certain extent but I don't think you should write off Earls.

He's a one trick pony Gret, Smith took him to the cleaners today. Take away his pace and he has nothing. Great against the minnows but against the top teams pace isn't enough. Trimble is the same, good provincial player...too limited to trouble the best teams. The other countries know it too, they don't fear us, they don't respect us and I don't blame them.

[Rory_Gallagher]

The amount of times I have heard "he played alright, give him a chance" about Earls, when he has been playing top flight rugby for about four years, sort of tells me that he has had enough chances now. No? He just isn't cutting it for me. Just okay isn't good enough.

[Gretgael1]

I think he's a winger to be honest rodders. Even at full back he looked class against England a couple of years ago. This was his first start at centre for Ireland, lets not condemn him yet, there's still two tests left. ( I shuddered when I wrote still two tests left!)

[rodders]

...look I'm being very harsh...I don't mean these guys aren't good enough to play international rugby full stop.... but they aren't good enough to be key players and build the team around, they are decent squad players who've served us well but I don't believe they are the calibre of player we need to challenge, let alone beat the top sides..... and if we don't find something better we are in serious danger of slipping further down the international ladder.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Earls has played centre quite a bit now, for both Munster and Ireland. He was playing centre in the 6 nations sure?

[Gretgael1]

Earls has played centre quite a bit now, for both Munster and Ireland. He was playing centre in the 6 nations sure?

Haha how did I forget that? Maybe that goes to show how memorable his performances were, ye win, Earls out!!!!!

[rodders]

Look guys we'll still be having this conversation about Earls in 5 years time. I don't think hes a top class player in any position, including wing.

Maybe he could have been a top full back if he'd been played there from the start but theres no point crying over spilt milk.

A bigger question is what was the flipping point of taking the likes of ROG and O'Callaghan ahead of Madigan and Toner on this tour? How many times do we need to see these guys play the ABs before it clicks that they aren't good enough?

Three of our most talented players are at home: Madigan, Gilroy and Kearney.... whilst we get spanked 3-0 with 100 cap journey men on the bench. Madness.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Yeah, it is a complete joke. Really, what was there to gain in bringing ROG on at 60 minutes? Seriously, what was he going to do?

I don't think Zebo is as talented as people think either.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Yeah, it is a complete joke. Really, what was there to gain in bringing ROG on at 60 minutes? Seriously, what was he going to do?

I don't think Zebo is as talented as people think either.

That's actually one decision I fully agreed with,the game was over there was no point flogging Sexton for the whole game when he'll be starting the next 2 tests as well.

[rodders]

Nope I like the look of Zebo, he looked dangerous in attack which couldn't be said of most of our backline.... we actually started brightly but NZ worked our attack out too easily.... BOD had no gas and Earls was too predictable... McFadden didn't do anything and Kearney too was too deep and just ran into trouble.....second half we just ran out of ideas and started booting the ball away...pretty much the same story as the past 2 seasons really.

[rodders]

Yeah, it is a complete joke. Really, what was there to gain in bringing ROG on at 60 minutes? Seriously, what was he going to do?

I don't think Zebo is as talented as people think either.

That's actually one decision I fully agreed with,the game was over there was no point flogging Sexton for the whole game when he'll be starting the next 2 tests as well.

The subsitution was fine, it was the player on the bench that was the problem.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I thought Zebo was just as ineffective as everyone else. Kearney tried, but he usually had no support and ran into contact. Kearney is a player who operates well with a few playmakers. Give him space, and he is going to power through. Not his best game.

[rodders]

Sorry too depressed to say anymore.... had a good day everyone

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Sorry too depressed to say anymore.... had a good day everyone

I'm off to the dentist this afternoon Rodders, my day has well and truly peaked already

[Rory_Gallagher]

Just checked the stats. O'Brien made 18 tackles!

[rodders]

Sorry too depressed to say anymore.... had a good day everyone

I'm off to the dentist this afternoon Rodders, my day has well and truly peaked already

at least you can sit in that dentist chair with a big

[rodders]

Just checked the stats. O'Brien made 18 tackles!

Awesome effort, he did miss a few though.... that probably says more about how shoite our ball retention is as much as it does about O'Brien...but yeah he's top class, he really is.

[Rory_Gallagher]

He only missed one rodders, which was a pretty bad one, on Savea.

[ballroomhero]

Sorry to jump in here. If there are calls for a hard, ball-carrying 12, then why not Trimble? Breaks tackles and stands up in tackle well.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I don't want a ball carrying 12 though. I think that would just slow things down even more right now. We need a clever 12, with a hard running 13 outside him. Spence is the best 13 atm who can do that. Trimble isn't the future in any position.

[Gretgael1]

I can remember Trimble having an excellent game at 12 against Scotland a few years ago. Not sure he's the answer now though.

[Sponsored content]