I Hope You're Happy Now Lukas!

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I hope you're happy now Lukas Rosal. You've had your 5 minutes of fame. You've pocketed some extra prize money. You've gained some fair weather fans. You may even have carved out a tiny bit of tennis history with your win against Nadal the other night. So I hope you are really really happy and are enjoying this years Wimbledon because thanks to you lots of tennis fans are not quite as happy.

Of course you have opened up the draw and other tennis players (and maybe fans of players who would have great difficulty beating Nadal) might be happy with you. But tennis fans who were looking forward to watching some exciting tennis will be less than happy at a multi slam winning all time great and joint favourite for the title being the victim of your never to be repeated best tennis you have ever played in your life.

socal1976 wrote:Hawkeye, I think the fans of Murray, Fed, and Djoko are happy to see him go out. The same reaction would exist if Djokovic went out early. People like to see the little guy have his day and to see someone play the best they have ever played. Nadal for my part has not been as well of the clay as he is capable of doing for quite some time so I don't know if he was as heavy a favorite as many made him. I think from the outset Novak and nadal were co favorites and Murray and Fed both still have great chances.

I know many do want to see their favourites get easier opponants but I always look forward to matches featuring the best against the best. My favourite match up is still Nadal Federer but Federer Djokovic and Nadal Djokovic are now for me easily the second best match ups.

Yes for me I like to watch those big rivalry matches as well. But many were criticizing and saying that the guys outside the top 4 are weak and not competitive. I think in the last 2 slams they have shown that they are fighting and hard and have a lot of ability. How hard did Novak and Roger struggle in the early rounds at RG as well. It is good for the sport, like I said I am just glad it was Nadal and not novak.

I was happy that Nadal was out. Good riddance to bad rubbish!

Easy. Nadal lost a match. No one died. He has made all but 1 finals since 2006. Has to end one day. Djokovic has a leisure walk to the title now.

luciusmann wrote:Although I'm a Fed fan, I am kind of saddened (strangely enough) that Nadal is out, mainly because yes, Nadal could have gone further but actually, I felt Nadal could have dealt with Rosol and beaten him. It felt like the Federer vs Tsonga match last year all over.

A few crucial differences of course: this was R2 so was unexpected but so was Fed being 2 sets up to love and then losing! However the similarities are more striking: all the sets Tsonga and Rosol won were 6-4 sets. This suggests to me that it was nerves from the opponent more than anything else that lost them the sets. One of the two sets both Fed and Nadal won were tie breakers too. Both Rosol and Tsonga were big hitters. I've always felt that Fed shouldn't have lost to Tsonga but I also think Nadal shouldn't have lost. It was remarkable how the dejected and forlorn look both Fed and Nadal had etched on their faces were so similar in there own different ways.

I may not be Nadal's biggest fan but I do hope he bounces back to his rightful place at the top of the game and not scraping around in the lower rounds where a champion like him shouldn't be.

Agree with much of this. So nice to see someone who appreciates both Nadal and Federer. We are lucky to have two players with such incredible talent playing in the same era. We don't have to imagine how they would match up against each other if the draw plays out we can get to see them play. I agree about that Tsonga match. Federer was cruising and I wasn't even giving the match much attention when it all changed. Nadal will of course bounce back!

https://www.606v2.com/t31277-why-i-love-wimbledon

Why such a U-turn hawkeye?!

Come to think of it, that other Nadal fangirl Haddie-Nuff has been quiet. Where is that bum?

No need to be so disrespectful Super D Boon.

Where were the Nadal hatahs last month when Nadal win FO?

It is interesting though in some respects this loss does do a lot of damage at Nadal's chances of reclaiming the number 1 ranking this year. Overrall my impressions of the match where that Nadal ran into a buzz saw. What people don't realize who haven't played a great deal of tennis is that because so much of the game is timing and belief that at their best even many journeyman have the game to embarass the greatest of tennis stars on that particular day or match.

What I do like about this win is that it shows that the guys outside of the top 4 really can play. We hear this talk all the time about how those outside of the top just aren't very good and the homogenous surfaces are driving the results. It is all nonsense, what Rosol showed us is that the margins at the top are still very small, and that even the world 100 if he plays his best tennis for a few hours can humble the mightiest. People should remember this match and the competive fights the big 4 have had the last 2 slams when they talk about how weak the second tier guys are.

I agree with your assessment socal about the damage Nadal's early exit will do to his chances of reclaiming No.1 this year. Immediately, from Monday he can forget reclaiming No.1 and can worry about reclaiming No.2. Not that I think he will lose sleep over it although he may do if he's still #3 prior to the USO and finds himself on Djokovic's side of the draw!

The main issue for Nadal is not only the 1, 155 points he's lost: it's the paltry 45 points he's got from Wimbledon. He'd need have a good run at either Cinci or Canada and win the other to repair the damage but that only gets him close to where he was at the start of Wimbledon. Winning the USO would help but it won't be enough because of the points Fed & Djokovic will have potentially gained earlier from Wimbledon.

Wimbledon now has affected the race for No.1 and made it mostly a two horse race between Fed and Djokovic. The deeper Fed and Djoko go into Wimbledon, the more remote it looks that Nadal will be able to change things until after the USO.

Yes lucius a good rundown of the numbers thanks for that. The thing that is most troubling if one wanted to handicap the race for number 1 in terms of Nadal's chances are the surfaces and his past track record in the remaining tournaments. This is traditionally a period post wimbeldon when even at his best Nadal rarely has won very much. And now the competition off of clay is maybe even tougher for him with the rise of Novak. Therefore he is really up against it in terms of getting the number 1. At this point I agree that Federer because he has in the past played better in this part of the season has the inside track. But I still see both guys as being distant seconds to Novak. If he stays healthy which he couldn't do post USO last year Novak is looking very strong for year end 1.

socal1976 wrote:Yes lucius a good rundown of the numbers thanks for that. The thing that is most troubling if one wanted to handicap the race for number 1 in terms of Nadal's chances are the surfaces and his past track record in the remaining tournaments. This is traditionally a period post wimbeldon when even at his best Nadal rarely has won very much. And now the competition off of clay is maybe even tougher for him with the rise of Novak. Therefore he is really up against it in terms of getting the number 1. At this point I agree that Federer because he has in the past played better in this part of the season has the inside track. But I still see both guys as being distant seconds to Novak. If he stays healthy which he couldn't do post USO last year Novak is looking very strong for year end 1.

I agree with much of what you say especially regarding Nadal's post Wimbledon record. However, I think he will try to bounce back and win a title somewhere between now and the USO.

If Novak holds Wimbledon next week then yes he is looking very strong for YE No.1. Otherwise no. I'm sure I've mentioned this before but I think that he will lose some of his points from Cinci/Canada where he defends a total of 1, 600 points. Not as important if he holds Wimbledon but will be if doesn't hold the USO. Hence why I think he's only strong for YE No.1 if he holds Wimbledon (& probably the USO), if he doesn't and it goes to Fed by some remarkable stroke of fate, I make Fed the favourite. There is a reason why the winner of Wimbledon has gone onto become No.1 within a month of winning it in 2011, 2009 & 2008 (3 out of the last 4 years) and then subsequently hold it for a year. Funnily enough, Djokovic is going to have to do something which hasn't been done since 2007, win back to back Wimbledon titles: clearly it's become very hard to do, just like @ the USO.

Well I disagree he has virtually no points to defend from after the US open. From Shanghai, Basel, Paris, Beijing, and London. I mean the guy has played in 8 straight semis so I doubt he is going to do poorly at wimbeldon and the USO. I don't think he necessarily has to win wimbeldon to be year end #1. He just has to win one of the two and play well at the year end indoor swing where he isn't defending any points. That is 4500 points we are talking about Djokovic is despite popular opinion a very capable indoor player. And frankly Roger hasn't really looked like a number one to me all year. Did he look it at the Ao or the FO, has he looked it so far at wimby?

Remember if he wins one more slam no one can win more slams than him. It will be a tall order for Roger even if he wins wimby lets say for Djokovic to take the AO and USO and for Roger to finish as year end #1. In short it isn't Rocket Science only one player can finish with two slams this year between the 3 likely candidates for year end #1. Djoko and Rafa have one and Nadal is out of wimby. So if Djoko wins at wimby at best Nadal could tie him. If Roger wins at wimby and Djoko wins at USO Novak would still be a practical shoe in for number 1. The only real scenario for Roger being year end number requires a lot of ifs.

1. Roger wins wimbeldon

2. Novak doesn't win the US

the first one is a big if and even the second one I think the US open suits Novak very well so he has a good chance there as well. Again if I would handicap the three since Novak is still in the wimby draw, is a better hardcourt player and the remaining schedule is on hardcourt, and ALREADY has a slam he is a clear favorite over the other two.

Federer has very little chance of y/e #1 but then that's never been the issue. The fascinating thing is if he can get to #1 at any point it shouldn't be misunderstood what that means; it's not a more momentary reflection on performance than y/e, it's the same time period of 12 complete months of play.

That he is already #2 tells us that across all surfaces over a full year he's performed better than Rafa, which is pretty surprising unless you remember that indoors is part of tennis, and not winning anything unless it's on clay is a weakness.

Just to clear something up - socal is quite right - he did apologise after making those comments (once gallery play and I had pointed out he was going a bit too far). I'm not nursing any bad feeling whatsoever from that incident as people often go a little overboard when they've had a couple of drinks.

The point I was making is that Seifer being asked to leave seemed a bit over the top as other, regular posters have written far more offensive stuff on these boards without censure. Why should he be singled out? Because Nadal fans can't take a bit of stick?

We need to maintain freedom of speech on these boards!

reckoner wrote: regular posters have written far more offensive stuff on these boards without censure.

Go on then, who? And when? (apart from the SoCal thing you were just talking about).

It Must Be Love wrote:

reckoner wrote: regular posters have written far more offensive stuff on these boards without censure.

Go on then, who? And when? (apart from the SoCal thing you were just talking about).

Click on my name and you will see a few.

socal1976 wrote:Remember if he wins one more slam no one can win more slams than him. It will be a tall order for Roger even if he wins wimby lets say for Djokovic to take the AO and USO and for Roger to finish as year end #1. In short it isn't Rocket Science only one player can finish with two slams this year between the 3 likely candidates for year end #1. Djoko and Rafa have one and Nadal is out of wimby. So if Djoko wins at wimby at best Nadal could tie him. If Roger wins at wimby and Djoko wins at USO Novak would still be a practical shoe in for number 1. The only real scenario for Roger being year end number requires a lot of ifs.

1. Roger wins wimbeldon

2. Novak doesn't win the US

the first one is a big if and even the second one I think the US open suits Novak very well so he has a good chance there as well. Again if I would handicap the three since Novak is still in the wimby draw, is a better hardcourt player and the remaining schedule is on hardcourt, and ALREADY has a slam he is a clear favorite over the other two.

socal, you've failed to address the fact that he's got 1, 600 points to defends @ Cinci/Canada. How well he does @ Wimbledon and the USO doesn't mean much, if he makes the final but doesn't win either he loses a combined total of 1, 600! Add in that getting to same the semis @ Cinci & Canada gets him 720, thus a loss of nearly 1, 000 points. The problem with your premise is that Novak already possesses the points from Wimbledon, USO, Cinci & Canada, a total of 5, 600, compared to Fed who has 1, 440 or so. You're rose tinted view seems woefully short sighted. As was proven upto the French Open, Djokovic shed a whole load of points.

Contrary to the line you seem to be spinning, Djokovic's record isn't as stella post USO as you're making out, yes he has won more titles than Nadal, but he certainly hasn't won more than 2 titles max in that part of the year. Anyway, none of what you say about Djokovic sitting comfortably as No.1 rests on anything that has happened this season, he performed better at the French & Monte Carlo, but elsewhere he lost a shed load of points which is why Federer can take the No.1 spot in the first place! Whether Fed looks like the No.1 is immaterial, he only gets to No.1 if he wins a slam.

The USO point is pure fantasy! Djokovic has faced two match points from Fed for the last 2 USO running! A lot depends on Wimbledon, if Fed makes the final at Wimbledon, there's a much higher chance he can win the USO, given how close he has been to knocking out Djokovic, it's more likely to happen. Usually when Fed has made the final at Wimbledon, he's made the final of the USO, hence why I'm confident that if Fed gets there, he can knock out Djokovic, and the draw may be kind to Fed with Nadal on Djokovic's side of the draw. Wimbledon is crucial for both Djokovic and Federer.

HE
a) Nadal played really well - I was surprised how many aces he managed on serve.
b) The court was playing moderately quickly and very fast for todays courts.
c) Rosol's actual performance of the day - ball striking, movement, stamina - was one of the best single performances in recent years of the whole tournament.
d) Fast court conditions is Nadals least preferred surface.
e) Rosol was the better player on the day but it was still close.
f) Your OP is mean and self serving. It is honest I'll grant you that, but it is completely blind to what actually happened in the match. It is a selfish rant blaming Rosol for disturbing your own plans for armchair viewing for the rest of the tournament.

Actually outside of last year where he tore his back out and in 2010 when he didn't play badly but was obviously distracted by the Davis Cup he has had great success in the indoor season. He has won Basel beating Fed on indoors, he has won Paris, he has won Shanghai and Beijing. Lets say lucius as you claim that Novak doesn't defend all his points from this period. That is fine it will be a tough ask to defend all those points. Do you believe that he will get virtually zero points from the 4500 or so points to be played for at the end of the year? Again you are underestimating him on the indoors because of his injury last year he has a great career record indoors and has won every major indoor tournament out there.


Yes Julius Novak has a lot of points to defend but his best surface is also an outdoor hardcourt where they will play half of the remaining matches and he is a very good indoor player with almost zero points from last years indoors to defend. How is Roger going to overtake Djoko Lucius for more points if Novak plays to form in the indoors and US hardcourts? Especially if Djoko wins another slam in the process Roger will have little chance of being year end #1.

Isn't Roger still #3 in the points race and Djoko #2 but both are catching fast on Nadal. So if Roger is #3 in the points and Djoko #2 right now, then you can throw the talk about defending points here and there out the window. I am talking about Year end #1. So if Roger is behind Novak in the points race right now he has to win more points than Novak from now on regardless of where who has to protect what points. I could understand your argument if Novak was behind Roger in the current points race but I think he is already in front of him.

Who's saying y/e is what's in play?

The ranking certainly is.

I should imagine he is very happy Hawkeye! Not really seeing the point of the article though. It just sounds like sour grapes - thankfully Nadal was more mature in his response!

You're speculating wildly with regards to who may get the YE No.1 and even more so on if Djokovic will have a good indoor season.

I'm going by his record. I decided to dig out this greatly successful indoor record you kept talking about and his most successful year was 2009, when he won Basel and Paris. He also made the semis in Shanghai. All good stuff, except he got knocked out in the RR round of the WTF.

Djokovic has got points to defend from last year, of the four big tournaments, Shanghai, Basel, Paris & WTF, Djoko missed one (so did Fed, same one). Admittedly he has a lot less than Fed to defend. All I can gather is that Djokovic has won most tournaments during the indoor stretch but has never won more than 2 in a single year. So in fact Djokovic's results in the indoor season is quite sketchy, certainly compared to Fed, so this notion that Djokovic will make a mad dash to hang onto YE No.1 seems silly.

Until we know wins Wimbledon (we'll know this time next week), it's difficult to determine who will have the best chance of taking YE No.1 I think there's little disagreement that a good run @ Wimbledon gives Fed a strong chance of taking No.1 for some period of time. However, if he wins Wimbledon, it only takes a Djoko slip up at either Cinci/Canada and Djoko will be a fair bit behind Fed even if wins the USO. Winning two slams in a year doesn't mean you'll be No.1, as you seem to think. Nadal had RG & Wimbledon in 2008 but didn't get the No.1 ranking until Fed slipped up @ Cinci/Canada. I don't want to say if Djokovic loses Wimbledon that he won't be YE No.1 but it will do a lot of damage to his chances if he does.