RaboP12 (Round 6): Leinster (30) vs Munster (21) k/o - 18:30 Sat, 6 October 2012 (Lansdowne Road)

Leinster Squad Update: 1 Oct 14:30
Rob Kearney (back) and Gordon D’Arcy (rib) are major doubts for the province and they will continue to be assessed ahead of Friday’s lunchtime team announcement. South African second row Quinn Roux suffered a shoulder injury and he is expected to miss this weekend’s derby match.
Meanwhile, Shane Jennings is expected to shake off the ill effects of an ankle injury which he sustained on the hour mark in Connacht, though it is likely to curtail his on-field involvement in training this week. It is hoped that club captain Leo Cullen (arm) will also return to the panel either this week or next, while Isaac Boss (arm) is getting closer to a return to action.

The province are expected to be boosted by the return of the likes of Jamie Heaslip, Kevin McLaughlin, Brian O’Driscoll, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton and Richardt Strauss to the panel this week.

There are two significant imminent landmarks for the province with Cian Healy, who turns 25 on Sunday, in line to make his 100th provincial appearance, while Naas number eight Heaslip’s next appearance will be his 150th.

Munster Squad Update: 1 October
Good news from the Munster camp is that the injuries picked up in the game on Saturday at the Liberty Stadium are not causing great concern.


Conor Murray required stitches to a cut above his eye but shortly after he returned it was thought to be in his best interests to replace him with Peter Stringer.
Stringer finished the game but suffered a calf injury and his progress will be monitored though the expectation is that both will be fit for consideration. The same applies to Marcus Horan who sustained a facial cut playing for Shannon.

Paul O'Connell (back), Johne Murphy (knee) and Luke O'Dea (ankle) are all expected to take a full part in training this week while Ian Nagle (shoulder) did likewise last week but will be given a week or so before being made available for selection and Cathal Sheridan (hand) and Ivan Dineen (groin) are also looking at a return in the same timeframe.

Mickado wrote:LEINSTER:

15: Ian Madigan
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Fergus McFadden
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Jack McGrath
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Tom Denton
20: Jordi Murphy
21: John Cooney
22: Noel Reid
23: Fionn Carr

red_stag wrote:01: Dave Kilcoyne
02: Mike Sherry
03: BJ Botha
04: Donncha O'Callaghan
05: Donnacha Ryan
06: Dave O'Callaghan
07: Sean Dougall
08: Peter O'Mahony
09: Conor Murray
10: Ronan O'Gara
11: Simon Zebo
12: Casey Laulala
13: Keith Earls
14: Doug Howlett
15: Denis Hurley

16: Damien Varley
17: Wian du Preez
18: Stephen Archer
19: Billy Holland
20: Paddy Butler
21: Duncan Williams
22: Ian Keatley
23: James Downey

Post match report (Indo)
Having saddled themselves with the unwanted tag of league leaders in tries conceded, Leinster for a while looked like they might make serious headway in the other direction at Lansdowne Road last night. In the end they managed one more than they conceded, 3-2, and were happy enough to win, never mind miss out on the bonus.

The bad news is that their list of injured has grown even longer. Four players had to leave early from what was an entertaining contest for the huge crowd of 46,280 who fetched up on a perfect night for rugby. Kevin McLaughlin, Isa Nacewa, Brian O'Driscoll and Andrew Conway all took knocks. Conway's exit was via a stretcher, with a stinger, while McLaughlin will need a scan on a hyper-extended elbow, Nacewa is in trouble with a haematoma, and O'Driscoll sprained his ankle.

It remains to be seen who is fit for the opening defence of their Heineken Cup title, against Exeter in the RDS on Saturday, but as far as last night was concerned they were stuck with a back three of replacement scrumhalf John Cooney, outhalf Ian Madigan (in fairness he was selected at fullback) and Fionn Carr, who surely would have started if he hadn't missed a bad tackle in the five-try defeat in Galway last weekend.

Smelling the weakness in their opponents, Munster -- who came through the game in much better shape physically -- chased the home team down like men possessed. On 53 minutes they looked like they would be beaten out the gate when an outstanding try from O'Driscoll, converted from the touchline by the excellent Jonny Sexton, put Leinster 30-14 ahead.

Going down the final straight, however, it was a mad scramble. Conor Murray spread a bit of panic in the home crowd when, from a couple of metres out, he took advantage of empty corridor to dot the ball down. Replacement Ian Keatley nailed the conversion with a great kick, and Munster were on the charge. A couple of minutes later they looked on the verge of making it a one-point game.

Keith Earls was held up inches short, and when the ball squirted up referee Leighton Hodges said it was forward and Leinster escaped. Earls made another great burst heading into overtime, but by then the chances of two scores were non-existent.

When the game wasn't stopped for injuries it moved along at a cracking pace, helped by the service of man of the match Eoin Reddan -- his contribution to O'Driscoll's try was first class -- and, in the subtext of showing form for Ireland, Richardt Strauss made a compelling case. He looked like the player who took Leinster by storm when he arrived here three years ago. He did well to finger-tip-score the opening try, after just four minutes, but way better again in keeping the ball alive for the second, for Madigan.

"Yeah I thought he was really good," Joe Schmidt said. "There was one pinball effort where he took a ball behind him and was hit by two guys -- [Casey] Laulala was one of them, who tends not to leave a lot behind when he hits -- and ricocheted away in the lead-up to scoring [Madigan's try]. I thought he was very good."

It remains to be seen if Declan Kidney thinks the same. The Ireland coach will have been pleased with the form of Earls, and Simon Zebo, but it was hard for Munster to get a secure platform given the damage Mike Ross was doing to their scrum. Dave Kilcoyne, his opposite number, is a willing and aggressive ball carrier, but as you would expect he spent more time learning than lecturing in the tight. The ref did him for two penalties in a row -- one hit and one miss for Sexton -- and you felt for him.

Early on Munster looked like they had plenty to offer, with Peter O'Mahony responding within a couple of minutes of Strauss's try. By half-time Leinster had slipped out to 20-14. Ronan O'Gara kept Munster in touch with three penalties but then hit the post with a handy one early in the new half.

Straight from there, Leinster got motoring and hit their opponents with 10 points in four minutes -- first Sexton goaled from the touchline, and then O'Driscoll finished brilliantly after Fergus McFadden laid the groundwork through the middle, riding O'Gara's tackle, before great hands from Reddan kept it all going.

Rob Penney will be delighted with the way his team stuck to the task, but they badly need to get all their big players fit if their game is going to work. Schmidt, while wondering why so much trauma has landed at his door, will be glad that his team can generate this sort of momentum with so many players missing.

Scorers -- Leinster: R Strauss, I Madigan, B O'Driscoll try each; J Sexton 3 pens, 3 cons; Munster: P O'Mahony, C Murray try each; R O'Gara 3 pens; I Keatley con.

Leinster: I Madigan; A Conway (J Cooney 65), B O'Driscoll (N Reid 64), F McFadden, I Nacewa (F Carr 55); J Sexton, E Reddan; H van der Merwe, R Strauss (S Cronin 57), M Ross (J Hagan 65), D Browne (T Denton 73), D Toner, K McLaughlin (J Murphy 12), J Heaslip (capt), S Jennings.

Munster: D Hurley; D Howlett (capt), K Earls, C Laulala, S Zebo (J Downey 65); R O'Gara (I Keatley 60),C Murray; D Kilcoyne (W du Preez 57), M Sherry (D Varley 51 yc 54-64), BJ Botha, Donncha O'Callaghan (B Holland 49), D Ryan, Dave O'Callaghan (P Butler 70), P O'Mahony, S Dougall.

Referee: L Hodges (Wales)

SecretFly wrote:It's becoming a habit that you guffaw at most things I say, Guns. Ah well, there goes another one. Redden and his team mates are just about to try and prove once more that they're the best in Europe - not just Ireland and nevermind in the Pro12 league. My humble opinion is that they're quite a way from being in the form to manage that one right now. They might hit the ground running and surprise me... but far too many tries a leaking.

Thomond wrote:Reddan was decent MOTM, I don't know. He was at fault for Murray's try. That was basic defending. If an U-17 side gives away a try like that (dropping it in the maul from the lineout) they would be sent running for the night, that was abosolutely appaling stuff. As was the defending. Pillar, Pillar Post or Guard, Guard Pocket like? Come on lads.


Murray was decent enough, he drew in defenders once or twice with runs, ROG is letting him down in some ways by standing so deep, it make Murray's service look worse I think. Got a bit of zip and urgency with Keats there.

Thomond wrote:Did they not call out Reddan on the TV or at the stadium? I'm pretty sure I heard his name called out.

SecretFly wrote:We lack players...willing...to do it, I'd suggest Rory. And that might be smart (longer careers are likely the less you impact with your neighbours at head-on speed) and it might be dumb (as I don't think we create half the space we think we do collectively as Provinces and exploit only half of that - in general, Leinster in their pomp were an exception - and as Thomond says, Ferris and SOB can play the Williams game).

But largely I don't think we mould our players physically to play that kind of battle-ram game - we tend to have the ones that either go to ground and recycle or ones that try to evade contact. I don't think we have many players simply with the right physical attributes to play it the Williams way - heavy set but also powerful leg muscles to keep moving when impact has been made. We Irish can sometimes appear quite light muscled for this modern professional game - I'm always looking at how contoured the opposition are in contrast to our more sinewy street-fighter types.

profitius wrote:

SecretFly wrote:We lack players...willing...to do it, I'd suggest Rory. And that might be smart (longer careers are likely the less you impact with your neighbours at head-on speed) and it might be dumb (as I don't think we create half the space we think we do collectively as Provinces and exploit only half of that - in general, Leinster in their pomp were an exception - and as Thomond says, Ferris and SOB can play the Williams game).

But largely I don't think we mould our players physically to play that kind of battle-ram game - we tend to have the ones that either go to ground and recycle or ones that try to evade contact. I don't think we have many players simply with the right physical attributes to play it the Williams way - heavy set but also powerful leg muscles to keep moving when impact has been made. We Irish can sometimes appear quite light muscled for this modern professional game - I'm always looking at how contoured the opposition are in contrast to our more sinewy street-fighter types.

I think thats more a reflection of the class of people who play rugby. The GAA have all the best athletes.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:There was a huge change in momentum when Keatley went to 10, Downey to 12, Lualala to 13 and Earls to 11.

Some leinster lads went off but by god I was getting seriously nervous by the 70th minute

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Leinster- I am accepting what you are saying merely adding that Munster also looked sharper and made fewer errors than they had previously in the game.

SecretFly wrote:

profitius wrote:

SecretFly wrote:We lack players...willing...to do it, I'd suggest Rory. And that might be smart (longer careers are likely the less you impact with your neighbours at head-on speed) and it might be dumb (as I don't think we create half the space we think we do collectively as Provinces and exploit only half of that - in general, Leinster in their pomp were an exception - and as Thomond says, Ferris and SOB can play the Williams game).

But largely I don't think we mould our players physically to play that kind of battle-ram game - we tend to have the ones that either go to ground and recycle or ones that try to evade contact. I don't think we have many players simply with the right physical attributes to play it the Williams way - heavy set but also powerful leg muscles to keep moving when impact has been made. We Irish can sometimes appear quite light muscled for this modern professional game - I'm always looking at how contoured the opposition are in contrast to our more sinewy street-fighter types.

I think thats more a reflection of the class of people who play rugby. The GAA have all the best athletes.

Well yeah, you're right Profitius, it is a reflection on the....not class as such! Let's not turn it into a class war discussion! ... kind of people who play rugby. But then again, it's also the reasons Rory is seeing what he is seeing. Like I say, I don't think we produce the same kind of rugby players (in general) to most other nations. Maybe the gene pool isn't sufficiently mixed yet - although we're getting there quickly with the newer generations coming along. But also it's just the culture. Irish players don't seem to enjoy the disciplin of eating to put on weight and then doing the necessary gym work to turn the weight into rollicking muscle! We seem to be more comfortable at nearer our natural height to weight ratios than those produced in gym work and at the table. I do see the marked distinction when our sides meet almost any other sides... we're mostly always slightly softer and slightly leaner (and therefore less able to crunch through the spots Rory alludes to) So part of it is genes and part of it is how we simply produce the players we have.

Like the Dalo-Falid type, Brünns are typically tall, broad-shouldered, and large-headed, with big bones and heavy musculature. In its unmixed form the type is usually quite easily distinguished from other local varieties, such as the shorter-statured, more gracile and more leptomorphic Keltic Nordid, with which it is cohabitant.

The modern Brünn inhabitants of western Ireland are mesocephalic to sub-brachycephalic, whereas their more easterly Cro-Magnid counterparts are typically long-headed. This is possibly due to the presence of a shorter-headed strain (such as Borreby) in the former, or to a local process of brachycephalization. The ancestral Cro-Magnid skull form was clearly dolichocranial.

The Brünn forehead is high and broad, and the face broad and mostly orthognathous. The malars are wide, the lower jaw deep and broad (yet usually not as broad as in the Dalo-Falid type), and the chin is prominent and typically clefted (the latter is foremost a male trait).

As with the other Cro-Magnid types, male Brünn facial features can be very ruggedly masculine, often with exaggeratedly pronounced browridges and deep jaws; the degree of sexual dimorphism is high, and a corresponding ruggedness is not usually observed among the females. As with Borreby women, these are typically rounder-featured and larger-breasted than the European mean.

The nose is moderately large, mesorrhine to leptorrhine, and straight in profile, with a considerable concave minority. The tip is somewhat thick, and frequently upturned. The mouth is large and the lines around the oral cavity are deeply drawn, while the lips are moderately thick and little everted. The upper lip tends characteristically towards length and convexity.

The skin, typically freckled, is very fair, and does not easily tan. The hair is brown and wavy, and often rufous (the Irish Brünn is known for its frequent red-headedness). Curly hair seems to be an Irish specialty. The eyes are light-mixed blue in the great majority of cases.

SecretFly wrote:I'm not so sure Brad Thorn was so essential to Leinster's run last season? Was he? Everyone will have an opinion but I think he was simply solid rather than pivotal in the way Rocky Elsom or old Nathan Hines was. Maybe I'm remembering inaccurately but his presence didn't grip me like it seems to have with others.

profitius wrote:

Brunns are most common in Ireland and in Ireland they're most common in the West and South West of the country. Munster (south western province) had the best pack in Europe for a long period.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I'm not so sure Brad Thorn was so essential to Leinster's run last season? Was he? Everyone will have an opinion but I think he was simply solid rather than pivotal in the way Rocky Elsom or old Nathan Hines was. Maybe I'm remembering inaccurately but his presence didn't grip me like it seems to have with others.

I agree fly. I laugh at people who say we couldnt have won the HC without him. But he is still a great player to have in the team.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I'm not so sure Brad Thorn was so essential to Leinster's run last season? Was he? Everyone will have an opinion but I think he was simply solid rather than pivotal in the way Rocky Elsom or old Nathan Hines was. Maybe I'm remembering inaccurately but his presence didn't grip me like it seems to have with others.

I agree fly. I laugh at people who say we couldnt have won the HC without him. But he is still a great player to have in the team.

Hey. Stop laughing at me boss.

He paid for his signing in the extra bums on seats in his first competitive game v the Ospreys in March.

And we would not have beaten Clermont without him. We barely kept them out in the last few minutes as it was, and had a bit of luck with Wesley Fofana's bicep.

Thorn was immense in that game (as was Leo) and I'm convinced we would not have won it without him, and therefore not won the HC.

Among the many things that we would not have won the HC without, a bit of luck and Brad Thorn were 2 of the important ones.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Profitius got any info on people from the North?

SecretFly wrote:

profitius wrote:

Brunns are most common in Ireland and in Ireland they're most common in the West and South West of the country. Munster (south western province) had the best pack in Europe for a long period.

Relying more on natural bulk and leg speed than in one induced or helped along in the gym or dedicated training. You know what I'm saying profitius - it doesn't take a massive amount of indepth observation to realise our internationals tend to be smaller and less 'pumped' than our opponents. We get by sometimes, other times we don't. We have our emphasis and other sides have theirs. We adapt to our limitations and others reap the benefits sometimes of not having so many of them.

Feckless Rogue wrote:We've knocked out Clermont twice without Brad Thorn. But we had Hines. We should have kept Hines for an extra two years. He wanted to stay too. Stupid IRFU.

rodders wrote:Hmm it's all genetics eh...

Not so sure I see the inherent physical similarities between ROG and John Hayes, Paddy Wallace and Stephen Ferris or Rob Kearney and Leo Cullen myself......

Don Alfonso wrote:Ahhh... genetics. One of the very least significant factors, hyped up to great importance because it absolves us of any criticism about what we do with the professional game in Ireland and how we run it.

Sin é wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Ahhh... genetics. One of the very least significant factors, hyped up to great importance because it absolves us of any criticism about what we do with the professional game in Ireland and how we run it.

Explain how all the great middle and long distance runners are East Africans and all great powerful sprinters then are West Africans?

I heard Penney in an interview just prior to the Junior World Cup talking about how the mixing of the genes of the south sea islanders & Europeans resulted in NZ producing some great young athletes.