RaboP12 (Round 6): Leinster (30) vs Munster (21) k/o - 18:30 Sat, 6 October 2012 (Lansdowne Road)

Leinster Squad Update: 1 Oct 14:30
Rob Kearney (back) and Gordon D’Arcy (rib) are major doubts for the province and they will continue to be assessed ahead of Friday’s lunchtime team announcement. South African second row Quinn Roux suffered a shoulder injury and he is expected to miss this weekend’s derby match.
Meanwhile, Shane Jennings is expected to shake off the ill effects of an ankle injury which he sustained on the hour mark in Connacht, though it is likely to curtail his on-field involvement in training this week. It is hoped that club captain Leo Cullen (arm) will also return to the panel either this week or next, while Isaac Boss (arm) is getting closer to a return to action.

The province are expected to be boosted by the return of the likes of Jamie Heaslip, Kevin McLaughlin, Brian O’Driscoll, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton and Richardt Strauss to the panel this week.

There are two significant imminent landmarks for the province with Cian Healy, who turns 25 on Sunday, in line to make his 100th provincial appearance, while Naas number eight Heaslip’s next appearance will be his 150th.

Munster Squad Update: 1 October
Good news from the Munster camp is that the injuries picked up in the game on Saturday at the Liberty Stadium are not causing great concern.


Conor Murray required stitches to a cut above his eye but shortly after he returned it was thought to be in his best interests to replace him with Peter Stringer.
Stringer finished the game but suffered a calf injury and his progress will be monitored though the expectation is that both will be fit for consideration. The same applies to Marcus Horan who sustained a facial cut playing for Shannon.

Paul O'Connell (back), Johne Murphy (knee) and Luke O'Dea (ankle) are all expected to take a full part in training this week while Ian Nagle (shoulder) did likewise last week but will be given a week or so before being made available for selection and Cathal Sheridan (hand) and Ivan Dineen (groin) are also looking at a return in the same timeframe.

Mickado wrote:LEINSTER:

15: Ian Madigan
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Fergus McFadden
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Jack McGrath
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Tom Denton
20: Jordi Murphy
21: John Cooney
22: Noel Reid
23: Fionn Carr

red_stag wrote:01: Dave Kilcoyne
02: Mike Sherry
03: BJ Botha
04: Donncha O'Callaghan
05: Donnacha Ryan
06: Dave O'Callaghan
07: Sean Dougall
08: Peter O'Mahony
09: Conor Murray
10: Ronan O'Gara
11: Simon Zebo
12: Casey Laulala
13: Keith Earls
14: Doug Howlett
15: Denis Hurley

16: Damien Varley
17: Wian du Preez
18: Stephen Archer
19: Billy Holland
20: Paddy Butler
21: Duncan Williams
22: Ian Keatley
23: James Downey

Post match report (Indo)
Having saddled themselves with the unwanted tag of league leaders in tries conceded, Leinster for a while looked like they might make serious headway in the other direction at Lansdowne Road last night. In the end they managed one more than they conceded, 3-2, and were happy enough to win, never mind miss out on the bonus.

The bad news is that their list of injured has grown even longer. Four players had to leave early from what was an entertaining contest for the huge crowd of 46,280 who fetched up on a perfect night for rugby. Kevin McLaughlin, Isa Nacewa, Brian O'Driscoll and Andrew Conway all took knocks. Conway's exit was via a stretcher, with a stinger, while McLaughlin will need a scan on a hyper-extended elbow, Nacewa is in trouble with a haematoma, and O'Driscoll sprained his ankle.

It remains to be seen who is fit for the opening defence of their Heineken Cup title, against Exeter in the RDS on Saturday, but as far as last night was concerned they were stuck with a back three of replacement scrumhalf John Cooney, outhalf Ian Madigan (in fairness he was selected at fullback) and Fionn Carr, who surely would have started if he hadn't missed a bad tackle in the five-try defeat in Galway last weekend.

Smelling the weakness in their opponents, Munster -- who came through the game in much better shape physically -- chased the home team down like men possessed. On 53 minutes they looked like they would be beaten out the gate when an outstanding try from O'Driscoll, converted from the touchline by the excellent Jonny Sexton, put Leinster 30-14 ahead.

Going down the final straight, however, it was a mad scramble. Conor Murray spread a bit of panic in the home crowd when, from a couple of metres out, he took advantage of empty corridor to dot the ball down. Replacement Ian Keatley nailed the conversion with a great kick, and Munster were on the charge. A couple of minutes later they looked on the verge of making it a one-point game.

Keith Earls was held up inches short, and when the ball squirted up referee Leighton Hodges said it was forward and Leinster escaped. Earls made another great burst heading into overtime, but by then the chances of two scores were non-existent.

When the game wasn't stopped for injuries it moved along at a cracking pace, helped by the service of man of the match Eoin Reddan -- his contribution to O'Driscoll's try was first class -- and, in the subtext of showing form for Ireland, Richardt Strauss made a compelling case. He looked like the player who took Leinster by storm when he arrived here three years ago. He did well to finger-tip-score the opening try, after just four minutes, but way better again in keeping the ball alive for the second, for Madigan.

"Yeah I thought he was really good," Joe Schmidt said. "There was one pinball effort where he took a ball behind him and was hit by two guys -- [Casey] Laulala was one of them, who tends not to leave a lot behind when he hits -- and ricocheted away in the lead-up to scoring [Madigan's try]. I thought he was very good."

It remains to be seen if Declan Kidney thinks the same. The Ireland coach will have been pleased with the form of Earls, and Simon Zebo, but it was hard for Munster to get a secure platform given the damage Mike Ross was doing to their scrum. Dave Kilcoyne, his opposite number, is a willing and aggressive ball carrier, but as you would expect he spent more time learning than lecturing in the tight. The ref did him for two penalties in a row -- one hit and one miss for Sexton -- and you felt for him.

Early on Munster looked like they had plenty to offer, with Peter O'Mahony responding within a couple of minutes of Strauss's try. By half-time Leinster had slipped out to 20-14. Ronan O'Gara kept Munster in touch with three penalties but then hit the post with a handy one early in the new half.

Straight from there, Leinster got motoring and hit their opponents with 10 points in four minutes -- first Sexton goaled from the touchline, and then O'Driscoll finished brilliantly after Fergus McFadden laid the groundwork through the middle, riding O'Gara's tackle, before great hands from Reddan kept it all going.

Rob Penney will be delighted with the way his team stuck to the task, but they badly need to get all their big players fit if their game is going to work. Schmidt, while wondering why so much trauma has landed at his door, will be glad that his team can generate this sort of momentum with so many players missing.

Scorers -- Leinster: R Strauss, I Madigan, B O'Driscoll try each; J Sexton 3 pens, 3 cons; Munster: P O'Mahony, C Murray try each; R O'Gara 3 pens; I Keatley con.

Leinster: I Madigan; A Conway (J Cooney 65), B O'Driscoll (N Reid 64), F McFadden, I Nacewa (F Carr 55); J Sexton, E Reddan; H van der Merwe, R Strauss (S Cronin 57), M Ross (J Hagan 65), D Browne (T Denton 73), D Toner, K McLaughlin (J Murphy 12), J Heaslip (capt), S Jennings.

Munster: D Hurley; D Howlett (capt), K Earls, C Laulala, S Zebo (J Downey 65); R O'Gara (I Keatley 60),C Murray; D Kilcoyne (W du Preez 57), M Sherry (D Varley 51 yc 54-64), BJ Botha, Donncha O'Callaghan (B Holland 49), D Ryan, Dave O'Callaghan (P Butler 70), P O'Mahony, S Dougall.

Referee: L Hodges (Wales)

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I actually do think that Schmidt would take the Ireland job if he was offered it. He has kids and all that but I'm sure he could make it work.

I have it on good authority that Drico absolutly loves working with Schmidt and finds him a fountain of knowledge. I believe that even the usually diplomatic Drico is becoming less patient with Kidney. Some of his recent comments suggest this might be true.

I know Schmidt has just signed a new contract but I reckon he should be asked to take over at the end of the season.

Wishful thinking I'd say on your part about Drico losing patience with Kidney - he has hardly been in the Irish camp this year to become impatient (and may account as to why he isn't up to speed on the attack). Ireland/Les Kiss had Drico for a little over a week this season before the 1st NZ game - he didn't even have him for the Barbarians because of the Heineken Cup.

How do you know how often he is in contact with Kidney and the Ireland camp. Who would you rather be coached by, an innovator who comes to the training ground every day with new ideas or a coach who has the creativity of an accountant and is still using the same outdated methods he used when coaching Munster and doesnt seem to be open to any ideas.

SecretFly wrote:If Joe can do the adding and subtractions and all the calculating I think he'll need to drag Leinster through this HEC, and give the team a respectable standing in it come the end (not necessarily a win or indeed even a final place); .... but if he can drag something out of this Leinster that are missing players and tripping over themselves at present with underwhelming play - particularly in defence - then yep, he deserves to be asked to coach Ireland when the time comes. He might well bluntly say no and walk away, I wouldn't be getting my hopes up that he'd necessarily want the job to begin with...but this season will be his true test of leadership that will confirm his candidacy for it. Will he cobble together a respectable showing in this year's HEC? We'll see.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
The break he made isn't the point and you know it.The point is he had the intelligence to change direction and look for his support something which Earls doesn't seem to do.Whether he was playing against the AB's or my clubs 2nds isn't important it's a display of rugby intelligence that by your argument Earls must be lacking.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Leinster were not playing themselves on the day, they were playing the dragons. How many international caps did the opposition have? (There is a clip on Utube of Keith Earls splitting Ulster (mainly inexperienced kids) - if he did that to an international side he would be world player of the year.

The break he made isn't the point and you know it.The point is he had the intelligence to change direction and look for his support something which Earls doesn't seem to do.Whether he was playing against the AB's or my clubs 2nds isn't important it's a display of rugby intelligence that by your argument Earls must be lacking.

eirebilly wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
The break he made isn't the point and you know it.The point is he had the intelligence to change direction and look for his support something which Earls doesn't seem to do.Whether he was playing against the AB's or my clubs 2nds isn't important it's a display of rugby intelligence that by your argument Earls must be lacking.

Sorry for coming into this late but are you suggesting that Earls lacks the intelligence to look for support after making a break? Thats a very bold statement to make if you do mean that.

rodders wrote:Over running is a sign of lacking pace, not having it. Slower wingers mistime their runs because they lack confidence in their ability to maintain depth and come up too flat to the ball carrier.

Thats why Bowe times his runs so well, because when he hits the line at pace he is rarely caught because of his pace.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
The break he made isn't the point and you know it.The point is he had the intelligence to change direction and look for his support something which Earls doesn't seem to do.Whether he was playing against the AB's or my clubs 2nds isn't important it's a display of rugby intelligence that by your argument Earls must be lacking.

Sorry for coming into this late but are you suggesting that Earls lacks the intelligence to look for support after making a break? Thats a very bold statement to make if you do mean that.

No actually my argument isn't really against Earls,it's aimed at the ridiculous assertion that Earls is too quick for his support runners.I don't think this is true but if it is then Earls should be looking for his support instead of running from it.If Earls was playing with a decently coached Ireland backline then he would have no trouble finding support.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
The break he made isn't the point and you know it.The point is he had the intelligence to change direction and look for his support something which Earls doesn't seem to do.Whether he was playing against the AB's or my clubs 2nds isn't important it's a display of rugby intelligence that by your argument Earls must be lacking.

Sorry for coming into this late but are you suggesting that Earls lacks the intelligence to look for support after making a break? Thats a very bold statement to make if you do mean that.

No actually my argument isn't really against Earls,it's aimed at the ridiculous assertion that Earls is too quick for his support runners.I don't think this is true but if it is then Earls should be looking for his support instead of running from it.If Earls was playing with a decently coached Ireland backline then he would have no trouble finding support.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
The break he made isn't the point and you know it.The point is he had the intelligence to change direction and look for his support something which Earls doesn't seem to do.Whether he was playing against the AB's or my clubs 2nds isn't important it's a display of rugby intelligence that by your argument Earls must be lacking.

Sorry for coming into this late but are you suggesting that Earls lacks the intelligence to look for support after making a break? Thats a very bold statement to make if you do mean that.

No actually my argument isn't really against Earls,it's aimed at the ridiculous assertion that Earls is too quick for his support runners.I don't think this is true but if it is then Earls should be looking for his support instead of running from it.If Earls was playing with a decently coached Ireland backline then he would have no trouble finding support.

eirebilly wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
The break he made isn't the point and you know it.The point is he had the intelligence to change direction and look for his support something which Earls doesn't seem to do.Whether he was playing against the AB's or my clubs 2nds isn't important it's a display of rugby intelligence that by your argument Earls must be lacking.

Sorry for coming into this late but are you suggesting that Earls lacks the intelligence to look for support after making a break? Thats a very bold statement to make if you do mean that.

No actually my argument isn't really against Earls,it's aimed at the ridiculous assertion that Earls is too quick for his support runners.I don't think this is true but if it is then Earls should be looking for his support instead of running from it.If Earls was playing with a decently coached Ireland backline then he would have no trouble finding support.

Ok, fair dues then. He is very quick and at times has pinned his ears back and left his support runners for dead but thats more due to the lines he runs at times. I would not generally say that he is quicker than his support runners on a whole.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Earls has no problem with Zebo or Howlett - maybe its just down to playing with such a variety of people - but you are daft if you don't think pace counts. If that was the case, Ian Dowling would have won at least 20-30 caps.

SecretFly wrote:support is a.................................. an International problem, let's say. Has been for quite a while.
As asoreleftshoulder says, it's not so much that natural speed is an issue for many Irish backs, it's that the coaching is tentative and players don't - rather than can't - chase after the one or two whizz guys in any kind of methodical formation of true coaching intent.

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Earls has no problem with Zebo or Howlett - maybe its just down to playing with such a variety of people - but you are daft if you don't think pace counts. If that was the case, Ian Dowling would have won at least 20-30 caps.

Huh?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Earls has no problem with Zebo or Howlett - maybe its just down to playing with such a variety of people - but you are daft if you don't think pace counts. If that was the case, Ian Dowling would have won at least 20-30 caps.

Huh?

Ian Dowling's international career was hampered because he didn't have pace. He had everything else (as in a rugby brain, good positionally, very good defensively, good offload, never got turned over). If he had pace he would have been able to make it to the try line and develop good finishing skills.

SecretFly wrote:support is a.................................. an International problem, let's say. Has been for quite a while.
As asoreleftshoulder says, it's not so much that natural speed is an issue for many Irish backs, it's that the coaching is tentative and players don't - rather than can't - chase after the one or two whizz guys in any kind of methodical formation of true coaching intent.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:support is a.................................. an International problem, let's say. Has been for quite a while.
As asoreleftshoulder says, it's not so much that natural speed is an issue for many Irish backs, it's that the coaching is tentative and players don't - rather than can't - chase after the one or two whizz guys in any kind of methodical formation of true coaching intent.

Or quite simply the players don't look to support (Luke Fitz is the only one I've seen doing it internationally with Earls).

Anther little stat from the weekend:

Leinster v Munster (that order)
Possession: 60% - 40%
Clean breaks: 7 - 3
Defenders beaten: 9 - 13
Offloads: 7 - 16 (Zebo had 3, Casey 4)
Turnovers conceeded: 12 - 9.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:support is a.................................. an International problem, let's say. Has been for quite a while.
As asoreleftshoulder says, it's not so much that natural speed is an issue for many Irish backs, it's that the coaching is tentative and players don't - rather than can't - chase after the one or two whizz guys in any kind of methodical formation of true coaching intent.

Or quite simply the players don't look to support (Luke Fitz is the only one I've seen doing it internationally with Earls).

Anther little stat from the weekend:

Leinster v Munster (that order)
Possession: 60% - 40%
Clean breaks: 7 - 3
Defenders beaten: 9 - 13
Offloads: 7 - 16 (Zebo had 3, Casey 4)
Turnovers conceeded: 12 - 9.

The highlighted bit is irrelevent Sin é as International coaching has nothing to do with Leinster or Munster coaching and everything to do with the International coaches and the players they choose to play for them.

And as for the first part...I repeat, it could be that the players don't support the speedsters (your theory) or it could be that the players are left to their own devices, their own memories and their own confused Provincial soup of ideas and left to get on with their own stuttering version of attack.(my theory). I believe attack needs to be coached...it has nothing to do with a fast fella bolting because he's fast.

We'll agree (as always) to differ on our reading of Ireland inc.

Sin é wrote:
Eh, I never claimed those stats were relevant - I just put up up there because this is a thread about the L v M game played last weekend - a sort of back on topic nudge

Penney's philosophy is to play what is in front of you (not what is behind you). If Earls is leading a charge, his support should be following him.

Is the difference between Dan Carter & Carlos Spencer coaching?

Sin é wrote:
Penney's philosophy is to play what is in front of you (not what is behind you). If Earls is leading a charge, his support should be following him.

Is the difference between Dan Carter & Carlos Spencer coaching?

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:support is a.................................. an International problem, let's say. Has been for quite a while.
As asoreleftshoulder says, it's not so much that natural speed is an issue for many Irish backs, it's that the coaching is tentative and players don't - rather than can't - chase after the one or two whizz guys in any kind of methodical formation of true coaching intent.

People used to joke about Contempomi that he was lucky he played along side Brian O'Driscoll as not only did his team mates not know what he was going to next, he sometimes didn't know what he himself was going to do - but BOD got his wavelength. Unfortuntely BOD doesn't have the legs for that anymore.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Penney's philosophy is to play what is in front of you (not what is behind you). If Earls is leading a charge, his support should be following him.

Is the difference between Dan Carter & Carlos Spencer coaching?

I was a fan of the idea of Penney before too many Munster voices here were...as in before he showed up.... when some Munster voices were unsure about the job been taken from Munster man Foley and given to yet another nuisance SHer. I didn't need Penney proof to see the potential - and it's still potential.

Again, Sin é - Leinster hardly need lessons on the idea of swift attack and heads-up rugby? Penney's philosophy is that he'll coach. He's starting out well and I'm looking forward to the progress over the years.
But it's Penney that will bring whatever new he brings to Munster's play - not the players thinking on their feet. They've had their feet long before he showed up but to a man they're all been positive about his new way...about this wider more backs orientated game he's starting to bring out in them. They want to play it but first you need a set of coaches that want to coach it.

So yep - Penney for now looks a good deal for Munster...and there you go. A coach working and bringing about the kind of gameplan he wants to see being played.

Is the difference between how Munster choose to play this year & how they chose to play under McGahan coaching?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I'd love to see him come off the bench v the boks with his 1st cousin Adriaan as his opposite number. Ryle Nugent would probably have an orgasm.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I'd love to see him come off the bench v the boks with his 1st cousin Adriaan as his opposite number. Ryle Nugent would probably have an orgasm.

am i the only one that thinks that he is better than Adriaan? how is richardt not getting called up to the SA team?

Notch wrote:Val, imagine how good Earls would be if the Lions coaches hadn't coached him to not pay attention to supporting runners

I think he may finally have the right coach at provincial level to get the best out of him. It's going to be an interesting year watching him develop.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Penney's philosophy is to play what is in front of you (not what is behind you). If Earls is leading a charge, his support should be following him.

Is the difference between Dan Carter & Carlos Spencer coaching?

I was a fan of the idea of Penney before too many Munster voices here were...as in before he showed up.... when some Munster voices were unsure about the job been taken from Munster man Foley and given to yet another nuisance SHer. I didn't need Penney proof to see the potential - and it's still potential.

Again, Sin é - Leinster hardly need lessons on the idea of swift attack and heads-up rugby? Penney's philosophy is that he'll coach. He's starting out well and I'm looking forward to the progress over the years.
But it's Penney that will bring whatever new he brings to Munster's play - not the players thinking on their feet. They've had their feet long before he showed up but to a man they're all been positive about his new way...about this wider more backs orientated game he's starting to bring out in them. They want to play it but first you need a set of coaches that want to coach it.

So yep - Penney for now looks a good deal for Munster...and there you go. A coach working and bringing about the kind of gameplan he wants to see being played.

Is the difference between how Munster choose to play this year & how they chose to play under McGahan coaching?

Penney's appoint - most people were delighted with his appointment. The Indo tried to try to stir up stuff about Foley, but it didn't stick. Munster were very open about the whole process, interviews panel etc.

Leinster were always an attacking team Fly - even when Kidney was coach. What Schmidt has done is upskilled the players a lot but the Gaffney loop is still used.

Notch wrote:My take would be his awareness, decision making and passing have all improved. But are still short of his potential, or where he'd had he say grown up in Canterbury not Munster. He's worked on plenty in his games and he's got plenty to work on still. As an international wing I like him a lot. He can do a lot of damage on the wing, has a very handy try scoring ratio. As an international centre he's mediocre.

If tyou were picking your strongest Munster XV, you'd certainly have to say Laulala is by far the better 13. Howlett is the captain which leaves Earls needing to slot in at 11, 12 or 15. Certainly you'd want to get him in somewhere given what he can do to teams but he's not indisputable. I think the centre combination we saw against Leinster might become familiar.

valjester wrote:Rodders' assertion that Earls isn't good enough to make the Munster starting team is ludicrous.

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:My take would be his awareness, decision making and passing have all improved. But are still short of his potential, or where he'd had he say grown up in Canterbury not Munster. He's worked on plenty in his games and he's got plenty to work on still. As an international wing I like him a lot. He can do a lot of damage on the wing, has a very handy try scoring ratio. As an international centre he's mediocre.

If tyou were picking your strongest Munster XV, you'd certainly have to say Laulala is by far the better 13. Howlett is the captain which leaves Earls needing to slot in at 11, 12 or 15. Certainly you'd want to get him in somewhere given what he can do to teams but he's not indisputable. I think the centre combination we saw against Leinster might become familiar.

I agree that he would probably be a better player if he had competent coaching, but I think he is an above average international centre, and if played with the right partner could be more than that. For the last few seasons, he has been in a team, whose only attack seems to be based around giving him or Howlett the ball and hoping they make something happen, he will get better now hopefully. On LLL, I think he is a good player but I'm not sure if he is that much better than Earls. He had some absolutely shocking games for Cardiff, and his defensive intelligence leaves a lot to be desired, which is why he got so few caps for the All Blacks.

I don't think LLL/Earls will work, especially not with Rog at 10. I just feel that Earls gets a lot of unfair criticism, especially when there are other players a lot more deserving off it, and a lot of the criticism is unfair and based on past faults. I would happily take Earls at Ulster, and I think it would slot into our first team fairly comfortably, and I think he would make most sides in Europe, just a pity he has been screwed around so much due to poor coaching at all levels.

Notch wrote:Val, imagine how good Earls would be if the Lions coaches hadn't coached him to not pay attention to supporting runners

I think he may finally have the right coach at provincial level to get the best out of him. It's going to be an interesting year watching him develop.

rodders wrote:Pete I agree with all of that except for your comment that he could be an outstanding international winger. I think he's had his run and only ever impresses against weaker sides.

The one attribute he has, pace, can be found in abundance in better young players coming through like Gilroy, Zebo, K2, Conway even Madigan or Keatley. All as quick, or quicker than Earls but smarter and better all round players too.

HERSH wrote:I knew the real Leinster would turn up for this one.

Just before the HC, who would have guessed it

HERSH wrote:I knew the real Leinster would turn up for this one.

Just before the HC, who would have guessed it

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
What I do find very strange is that while he considers himself a centre ahead of other positions, when he plays wing he rarely seems to come inside looking for more ball or running lines off his centres of forward runners.
That is quite telling IMO.

HERSH wrote:I'm glad we're out of it to be honest, it’s a phoney competition gear towards certain teams, until that changes then I couldn't careless about it.