Irish Autumn Squad-BOD AND BEST OUT!

First topic message reminder :

So Kidney announces his squad today, a 32 man panel against the boks and pumas. More players come into consideration for the Fiji game.

A 31 man Ireland squad including four uncapped players has been named by Ireland Coach Declan Kidney for the 2012 Guinness Series games against South Africa, Fiji and Argentina.

Centre Luke Marshall and forward Iain Henderson named in the panel and who were involved in the Ireland training camp in September are included in the squad as are prop David Kilcoyne and hooker Richardt Strauss, who is now eligible to play for Ireland based on his residency for the past three years.
In addition to the naming of the Ireland squad for the 2012 Guinness Series, there were also changes announced to the makeup of the national coaching staff with current Munster Assistant Coach and former international Anthony Foley joining the Ireland coaching team.

Foley will be now be leading the defence plans and systems allowing Assistant Coach Les Kiss to lead the attack shape for the team as well as continue to coach the backline. Foley will remain working with Munster Rugby outside of the international window. It was also confirmed that Leinster scrum coach, Greg Feek will continue providing his expertise to the Ireland team during competition time.

Commenting on the Guinness Series games and the addition of Anthony Foley, Ireland Coach Declan Kidney said: "We have three incredibly competitive games ahead of us in November and while there have been quite a few injuries and niggles in the early part of the season, it has opened up opportunities for other players to step into the squad. There are world ranking points on offer, so the underlying challenge for us is to work towards retaining and improving our ranking position ahead of the Rugby World Cup pool draw. While that is the end goal, our focus will be getting our preparations right to match the intensity of international games.

"I'm pleased that Anthony has taken up the offer of working with the squad to assist during this vital period in November. His previous experience of working with the team during the last RBS 6 Nations championship was important, but his own abilities and experience were central to bringing him onboard. I would like to thank Rob Penney and Joe Schmidt for being so positive and giving Anthony Foley and Greg (Feek) the scope to be part of the plans that we have."

Anthony Foley said: "I was delighted when Declan approached Rob and me about the possibility of working with the Ireland team again. I enjoyed the opportunity I got during the Six Nations working with the players and I felt once we were all comfortable with the balance between Munster and Ireland, I jumped at the chance. I certainly feel I can contribute positively and when you get the chance to coach with your country, you don't want to pass it up.

Ticket sales have reached over 46,000 for the South Africa game with only a limited number of categories available for purchase from IrishRugby.ie and www.ticketmaster.ie

While the Argentina game is a full month away, ticket sales are at just over 37,000 tickets and are selling quickly and have already surpassed the attendance the last time Argentina visited the Aviva.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/27539.php

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/62)
Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/49)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/3)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster/29)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/69)
Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster/32)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster/35)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/33)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster/50)
Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster)*
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/2)
David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)*
John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht/3)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/12)
Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/4)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster/14)
Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/5)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/88)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster/85)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/120) Captain
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/124
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/7)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/45)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/22)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/21)
Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/32)
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)*
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster/48)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster/5)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/1)

The question on everyones lips is going to be; who is going to play 15?

Could be Keith Earls or Tommy Bowe. Squad seems unbalanced with back five forwards and slim on wingers and fullbacks.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I, fairly uncontroversially, feel it would have been better to have named Cave at 13 and BOD or Sexton at 12. Yes, we had to move somebody out of position but at least they were with the squad- Wallace was keeping himself fit and available, actually postponing an operation he needed, but its unreasonable and unprofessional to have a player fly across the world and have just 1 or 2 sessions with the team before a test with the world champions. The decision to call-up Wallace was made problematic by his flight being delayed due to bad weather and it exposes an initial error of judgement by Kidney and the IRFU in the original selection and the number of players brought. This is ancient history.

Wallace could have been out there a heck of a lot faster if he went straight from home and not the beach. Didn't he lose a day by not having his mobile phone with him on the beach? Its not the first time that players have had to fly out to cover injuries (most recently, Damien Varley & Mike Sherry during the world cup).

Why didn't Paddy delay his beach holiday until he wasn't required? Surely that must have been a breach of contract! And as far as I know the 'initial error of judgement by Kidney' was down to cost constraints by the IRFU. Ian Madigan could have slotted in instead if he had been allowed to travel.

WOW, he didn't go back to the hotel room till the next day? Must have had some tan. Sin é, you should have a column in a girly gossip mag.

A 31 man Ireland squad including four uncapped players has been named by Ireland Coach Declan Kidney for the 2012 Guinness Series games against South Africa, Fiji and Argentina.






Centre Luke Marshall and forward Iain Henderson named in the panel and who were involved in the Ireland training camp in September are included in the squad as are prop David Kilcoyne and hooker Richardt Strauss, who is now eligible to play for Ireland based on his residency for the past three years.
In addition to the naming of the Ireland squad for the 2012 Guinness Series, there were also changes announced to the makeup of the national coaching staff with current Munster Assistant Coach and former international Anthony Foley joining the Ireland coaching team.

Foley will be now be leading the defence plans and systems allowing Assistant Coach Les Kiss to lead the attack shape for the team as well as continue to coach the backline. Foley will remain working with Munster Rugby outside of the international window. It was also confirmed that Leinster scrum coach, Greg Feek will continue providing his expertise to the Ireland team during competition time.

Commenting on the Guinness Series games and the addition of Anthony Foley, Ireland Coach Declan Kidney said: "We have three incredibly competitive games ahead of us in November and while there have been quite a few injuries and niggles in the early part of the season, it has opened up opportunities for other players to step into the squad. There are world ranking points on offer, so the underlying challenge for us is to work towards retaining and improving our ranking position ahead of the Rugby World Cup pool draw. While that is the end goal, our focus will be getting our preparations right to match the intensity of international games.

"I'm pleased that Anthony has taken up the offer of working with the squad to assist during this vital period in November. His previous experience of working with the team during the last RBS 6 Nations championship was important, but his own abilities and experience were central to bringing him onboard. I would like to thank Rob Penney and Joe Schmidt for being so positive and giving Anthony Foley and Greg (Feek) the scope to be part of the plans that we have."

Anthony Foley said: "I was delighted when Declan approached Rob and me about the possibility of working with the Ireland team again. I enjoyed the opportunity I got during the Six Nations working with the players and I felt once we were all comfortable with the balance between Munster and Ireland, I jumped at the chance. I certainly feel I can contribute positively and when you get the chance to coach with your country, you don't want to pass it up.

Ticket sales have reached over 46,000 for the South Africa game with only a limited number of categories available for purchase from IrishRugby.ie and www.ticketmaster.ie

While the Argentina game is a full month away, ticket sales are at just over 37,000 tickets and are selling quickly and have already surpassed the attendance the last time Argentina visited the Aviva.


N.B. *denotes uncapped player

It's a decent squad.

Surprised to see Muldoon in there
Disappointed not to see madigan, jackson or keatley
Delighted to see Marshall, henderson and kilcoyne.

Just realised that Court is our tight head cover!

clivemcl wrote:OK, so Rodders, how would you expect Anscombe to react if Kidney was to play Bowe ahead of Cave at 13 at the highest level

I don't think that is anything to do with Anscombe whatsoever Clive. Anscombe is Ulster coach.... who Kidney picks where is nothing to do with him.

Sorted by positon:

Looshead: Tom Court, Cian Healy, Dave Kilcoyne

Hooker: Rory Best, Richardt Strauss

Tighthead: Mike Ross

Second Row: Ian Henderson, Donnacha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Mike McCarthy, Donnacha Ryan, Dan Tuohy

Backrow: Stephen Ferris, Jamie Heaslip, Chris Henry, John Muldoon, Kevin McLaughlin, Peter O'Mahony

Scrumhalf: Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan

Flyhalf: Ronan O'Gara, Jonny Sexton

Centre: Darren Cave, Gordon Darcy, Luke Marshall, Fergus McFadden, Brian O'Driscoll

Back Three: Tommy Bowe, Keith Earls, Simon Zebo, Andrew Trimble

I see us as having 1 tighthead and no fullback in that squad of 31

I reckon Henderson/Strauss/L.Marshall might get starts against Fiji. Would be great if they did.

Also, is there not usually three scrum halves? No P.Marshall?

Notch wrote:Well Luke Marshall is picked ahead of Wallace. I think thats actually the right decision despite the fact Wallace is still the better player.

Marshall needs to be involved with Ireland, it'll help him grow as a player and motivate him to take Wallaces place.

Iain Henderson in as well.

Listen, I am absolutely delighted to see Marshall and Henderson in the squad I really am. But here's my problem. I said last season, if you aren't first choice for your province you shouldn't be in the side. Frankly picking Marshall is akin to picking McFadden. Marshall can't get past Wallace, and I can't see it happening this season, and McFadden still can't get past D'Arcy. We can't be like Sin and change the goal posts on every decision to suit our own decisions.

The selection of ROG is an absolute joke. The fact of the matter is that perhaps the form 10 in Irish rugby is Paddy Jackson. Even if you disagree and say Sexton is, then Jackson should at least be in the squad.

To leave out the best 7 in Irish rugby (with apologies to the Chris Henry who has been excellent for the past 18 months and deserves his call up) in Shane Jennings and include O'Mahony is bizarre. O'Mahony isn't good enough at provincial level let alone international level. He will be in time, he is an excellent prospect, but right now he shouldn't be in the squad.

I don't see Kilcoyne being quite ready for the international game, but it is excellent to see a bit more depth in the front row. I wonder if he might get a couple of games off the bench.

rodders wrote:

clivemcl wrote:OK, so Rodders, how would you expect Anscombe to react if Kidney was to play Bowe ahead of Cave at 13 at the highest level

I don't think that is anything to do with Anscombe whatsoever Clive. Anscombe is Ulster coach.... who Kidney picks where is nothing to do with him.

Ah come on Rodders, you know exactly the significance of my question. You think Anscombe will disagree then and stick to his guns? (NB disagreeing is a response - to say he wouldn't care is a bit silly).

You also havn't answered my question about whether Marshall is above Wallace at Ulster and Bowe above Cave at 13. Both of which could be valid. Especially the latter. I just don't see how you can advocate it for Ireland and not Ulster.

Looks like Earls will play 15, unless there's a spot being kept for Kearney.

Not unhappy about that to be honest. I think 15 is Earls best position personally although Madigan would have been the form pick for me.

Reasonable enough squad but I expect the XV will have a familiar look about it.

Not sure about moving Kiss aside for Foley...actually don't see any merit in that at all.

I feel apprehensive based on that squad. We've no tighthead cover. I suspect McFadden is set to play on the wing. There are too many backrowers selected. Not all Kidneys fault. Well, much of it is. Only one specialist tighthead and no specialist fullback. Seven backrows but only four Back Three players.

Lets break it down

LOOSEHEAD- Tom Court, Cian Healy, Dave Kilcoyne
HOOKER- Rory Best, Richardt Strauss
TIGHTHEAD- Mike Ross
LOCK- Paul O'Connell, Donncha O'Callaghan, Donnacha Ryan, Dan Tuohy, Mike McCarthy
BLINDSIDE- Stephen Ferris, Iain Henderson, John Muldoon, Kevin McLaughlin
OPENSIDE- Chris Henry
NUMBER EIGHT- Jamie Heaslip, Peter O'Mahony
SCRUMHALF- Eoin Reddan, Conor Murray
OUTHALF- Johnny Sexton Ronan O'Gara
CENTRES- Gordon D'Arcy, Brian O'Driscoll, Fergus McFadden, Darren Cave, Luke Marshall
WINGS- Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Keith Earls, Simon Zebo
FULLBACK- ?

So I really hope Tommy Bowe gets a start for Ulster at 15 on Friday. I'm guessing he's fullback cover with Earls and MacFadden in going to wing it?

Not a great Irish squad.

We have no fullback in our squad of 31.

We have just 1 tighthead in our squad of 31.

We picked O'Gara who is injured but did not pick Paddy Jackson or Ian Madigan or Ian Keatley who are all playing really well - especially when Madigan/Keatley cover fullback.

Some of the selections in the second / backrow are pretty uninspiring.

We have sold our soul and picked that mercenary Strauss.

So...

PROPS: Healy, Ross, Court, Kilcoyne
HOOKERS: Best, Strauss
LOCKS: POC, DOC, Ryan, McCarthy, Henderson, Tuohy
BACKROW: Ferris, Heaslip, McLaughlin, Henry, Muldoon, POM
SCRUMHALVES: Reddan, Murray
FLYHALVES: Sexton, O'Gara
CENTRES: Cave, Darcy, BOD, Marshall
WINGERS: McFadden, Trimble, Bowe, Zebo
FULLBACK: Earls


1) Strange that they have only gone for 2 hookers, 9's and 10's. Normally they go for three of each.

2) There are a lot of locks and backrow in there.

3) Only 1 recognised fullback who hasn't played there in over a year!!!

4) Missing some form choices- Jackson and Marshall to name two.

I wonder if he is going to call up Jones as part of the squad if he does well in the next few games...

... or if he is going to order Penny to play Earls at 15.

Hookisms

Kidneys job is to not only do the best he can with the national team in his tenure but also to leave the national team (if he doesn't get renewed) in a better state than when he found it.

Playing paddy does nothing for the long term centre options of Ireland. Never have I said you need to be a provincial starter to play. It is preferable of course but in fairness kidney is looking long term and probably beyond his own tenure with selecting the younger guys. He deserves for that.

rodders wrote:Looks like Earls will play 15, unless there's a spot being kept for Kearney.

Not unhappy about that to be honest. I think 15 is Earls best position personally although Madigan would have been the form pick for me.

Reasonable enough squad but I expect the XV will have a familiar look about it.

Not sure about moving Kiss aside for Foley...actually don't see any merit in that at all.

There's been a nasty little WUM going about these boards the last week Rodders- maybe you have seen him. His favourite phrase which I will now borrow as if I made it up 'square pegs for square holes'. Kis is an excellent defense coach, at least until he was made attack coach. So instead of bringing someone in to let him do the job he is best suited for Kidney brings in someone else. Clueless. It's just like making your best ball carrier into a fetching 7. But who would be stupid enough to do that? Oh yeah........

Keatley isnt playing well enough to be in the Irish squad. Madigan should be included.

Some of the Ulster lads unlucky as the form team. Possibly some of the Connacht backs. Leinster both their First team and A team have been not great this year and Munster are ho hum.

clivemcl wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I, fairly uncontroversially, feel it would have been better to have named Cave at 13 and BOD or Sexton at 12. Yes, we had to move somebody out of position but at least they were with the squad- Wallace was keeping himself fit and available, actually postponing an operation he needed, but its unreasonable and unprofessional to have a player fly across the world and have just 1 or 2 sessions with the team before a test with the world champions. The decision to call-up Wallace was made problematic by his flight being delayed due to bad weather and it exposes an initial error of judgement by Kidney and the IRFU in the original selection and the number of players brought. This is ancient history.

Wallace could have been out there a heck of a lot faster if he went straight from home and not the beach. Didn't he lose a day by not having his mobile phone with him on the beach? Its not the first time that players have had to fly out to cover injuries (most recently, Damien Varley & Mike Sherry during the world cup).

Why didn't Paddy delay his beach holiday until he wasn't required? Surely that must have been a breach of contract! And as far as I know the 'initial error of judgement by Kidney' was down to cost constraints by the IRFU. Ian Madigan could have slotted in instead if he had been allowed to travel.

WOW, he didn't go back to the hotel room till the next day? Must have had some tan. Sin é, you should have a column in a girly gossip mag.

No, he said he went to the beach in the morning, left his phone in the hotel/apartment and didn't get the message until that evening - so he lost a day (as in daylight). I didn't mention a night (though it was probably too late and he had to wait until the next morning to get a flight).

It was in all the rugby papers. Maybe you should start reading them.

I doubt Earls will play at 15 for Munster when there is Hurley and also Felix Jones and we are light in the centre.

This whole "Kidney tells the provinces what to do thing" is exaggerated I feel.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

rodders wrote:Looks like Earls will play 15, unless there's a spot being kept for Kearney.

Not unhappy about that to be honest. I think 15 is Earls best position personally although Madigan would have been the form pick for me.

Reasonable enough squad but I expect the XV will have a familiar look about it.

Not sure about moving Kiss aside for Foley...actually don't see any merit in that at all.

There's been a nasty little WUM going about these boards the last week Rodders- maybe you have seen him. His favourite phrase which I will now borrow as if I made it up 'square pegs for square holes'. Kis is an excellent defense coach, at least until he was made attack coach. So instead of bringing someone in to let him do the job he is best suited for Kidney brings in someone else. Clueless. It's just like making your best ball carrier into a fetching 7. But who would be stupid enough to do that? Oh yeah........

Ireland were top try scorers in the last 6Ns with Kis as backs coach Even Andrew Trimble scored a try

DOD wrote:Keatley isnt playing well enough to be in the Irish squad. Madigan should be included.

Some of the Ulster lads unlucky as the form team. Possibly some of the Connacht backs. Leinster both their First team and A team have been not great this year and Munster are ho hum.

As much as I like to disagree with you DOD thats well summed up

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

rodders wrote:Looks like Earls will play 15, unless there's a spot being kept for Kearney.

Not unhappy about that to be honest. I think 15 is Earls best position personally although Madigan would have been the form pick for me.

Reasonable enough squad but I expect the XV will have a familiar look about it.

Not sure about moving Kiss aside for Foley...actually don't see any merit in that at all.

There's been a nasty little WUM going about these boards the last week Rodders- maybe you have seen him. His favourite phrase which I will now borrow as if I made it up 'square pegs for square holes'. Kis is an excellent defense coach, at least until he was made attack coach. So instead of bringing someone in to let him do the job he is best suited for Kidney brings in someone else. Clueless. It's just like making your best ball carrier into a fetching 7. But who would be stupid enough to do that? Oh yeah........

Totally agree with this, seems completely bizzare IMO. An idiotic move. Why not get in someone who can coach attack and let Les do what he was doing better than most in the world at!?

Ladies and Gentlemen I give you Declan Kidney...

Also Ronan O'Gara.... DOC has at least answered his critics and is playing very well, what has ROG done other than get injured?

clivemcl wrote:
You also havn't answered my question about whether Marshall is above Wallace at Ulster and Bowe above Cave at 13. Both of which could be valid. Especially the latter. I just don't see how you can advocate it for Ireland and not Ulster.

Because they are two different teams with different challenges, goals, resources and priorities. Whats right for Ulster is not necessarily right for Ireland.

Ulster have a dominant pack, bolstered by 2 kiwis and and Saffer and a counterattacking NZ fullback as well as two big powerful wings. A huge ball carrier in Williams.

Ireland have an aging and smallish 3/4 line and a shortage of pace, and with O'Brien out carriers too. The pack is solid but rarely dominant so you need power in midfield to get on the front foot. The game is quicker and midfields are bigger at international level and I'm not convinced Wallace and Cave have the fire power at that level.

Different strokes for different folks.

But as you mention it, I would be very pleased to see Marshall and Bowe line up in midfield for Ulster.

DOD wrote:Keatley isnt playing well enough to be in the Irish squad. Madigan should be included.

Some of the Ulster lads unlucky as the form team. Possibly some of the Connacht backs. Leinster both their First team and A team have been not great this year and Munster are ho hum.

I agree about Keatley. Better getting gametime with Munster. Madigan will be better off getting gametime with Leinster (where he will be really needed considering Sexton won't be available) and Nacewa & Kearney are injured. The same applies to Jackson in Ulster. Has Pienaar being called into the SA squad?

Madigan will probably get a chance against Fiji when there are no Rabo games.

Sin é wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I, fairly uncontroversially, feel it would have been better to have named Cave at 13 and BOD or Sexton at 12. Yes, we had to move somebody out of position but at least they were with the squad- Wallace was keeping himself fit and available, actually postponing an operation he needed, but its unreasonable and unprofessional to have a player fly across the world and have just 1 or 2 sessions with the team before a test with the world champions. The decision to call-up Wallace was made problematic by his flight being delayed due to bad weather and it exposes an initial error of judgement by Kidney and the IRFU in the original selection and the number of players brought. This is ancient history.

Wallace could have been out there a heck of a lot faster if he went straight from home and not the beach. Didn't he lose a day by not having his mobile phone with him on the beach? Its not the first time that players have had to fly out to cover injuries (most recently, Damien Varley & Mike Sherry during the world cup).

Why didn't Paddy delay his beach holiday until he wasn't required? Surely that must have been a breach of contract! And as far as I know the 'initial error of judgement by Kidney' was down to cost constraints by the IRFU. Ian Madigan could have slotted in instead if he had been allowed to travel.

WOW, he didn't go back to the hotel room till the next day? Must have had some tan. Sin é, you should have a column in a girly gossip mag.

No, he said he went to the beach in the morning, left his phone in the hotel/apartment and didn't get the message until that evening - so he lost a day (as in daylight). I didn't mention a night (though it was probably too late and he had to wait until the next morning to get a flight).

It was in all the rugby papers. Maybe you should start reading them.

If that's the content of your rugby papers, you can keep them. Did it also have before and after pics Tony Buckleys dramatic weight loss, and an article on how to get that Jamie Heaslip 'look'.

BBC are saying there is to be one more prop and one more back added to the squad after the weekend. I presume that he will be having a look at Fitzpatrick and possibly jones.

Another back and prop to be added after this weekends games apparently. Fitz and Jones/madigan maybe

rodders wrote:

clivemcl wrote:
You also havn't answered my question about whether Marshall is above Wallace at Ulster and Bowe above Cave at 13. Both of which could be valid. Especially the latter. I just don't see how you can advocate it for Ireland and not Ulster.

Because they are two different teams with different challenges, goals, resources and priorities. Whats right for Ulster is not necessarily right for Ireland.

Ulster have a dominant pack, bolstered by 2 kiwis and and Saffer and a counterattacking NZ fullback as well as two big powerful wings. A huge ball carrier in Williams.

Ireland have an aging and smallish 3/4 line and a shortage of pace, and with O'Brien out carriers too. The pack is solid but rarely dominant so you need power in midfield to get on the front foot. The game is quicker and midfields are bigger at international level and I'm not convinced Wallace and Cave have the fire power at that level.

Different strokes for different folks.

But as you mention it, I would be very pleased to see Marshall and Bowe line up in midfield for Ulster.

Ha! Fair answer Rodders! Good lad!

It's probably too late for the IRFU to get in a backs coach. We needed to replace Gaffney immediately after he left. Now who'd want the job? Coming into a struggling team with the rest of the coaches only a year left on their contract. Kidney is left to make do and mend.

Feel like the IRFU are failing more than Kidney. The financial constraints on the touring party we could take to New Zealand leading to back-up players being flown across the world. The fiasco over replacing Phil Morrow when he left. The fiasco over replacing Gaffney as attack coach. The fiasco over O'Sullivans contract being renewed before the RWC being repeated all over again. Alienating the clubs over compulsory purchase of tickets, alienating the general public over ticket prices when the new Lansdowne Road stadium opened.

People are losing interest in the national team it feels. The number of traveling Irish rugby fans to London to see a Heineken Cup final between Leinster and Ulster will probably outweigh the attendance versus the Boks in Dublin. Worrying times. Maybe a new broom will sweep through the IRFU... I can but dream!

Farce.
Am I correct in thinking we will have seven man benches? If so the lack of a specialist tight head back up for Ross is criminal. To expect Tom Court to fill against Matawira if Ross is injured is bonkers. Yeah bonkers, that seems like the most appropriate word.
No full back. None. We have no fullback in our squad. Could have chosen, Hurley, Henshaw or Duffy. In a squad of this size you would expect two full backs.
Twelve players chosen to fill back five of the scrum.
Six centres if you include earls and I do.
The man has completely lost it.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:There's been a nasty little WUM going about these boards the last week Rodders- maybe you have seen him. His favourite phrase which I will now borrow as if I made it up 'square pegs for square holes'.

Haven't seen him but will keep an eye out ...thats a cracking phrase though, I like the sound of that guys jib....

BelfastDickVet wrote:BBC are saying there is to be one more prop and one more back added to the squad after the weekend. I presume that he will be having a look at Fitzpatrick and possibly jones.

Thank God. I hope Fitzpatrick makes it through the Dragons game. He needs a start.

Notch wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:BBC are saying there is to be one more prop and one more back added to the squad after the weekend. I presume that he will be having a look at Fitzpatrick and possibly jones.

Thank God. I hope Fitzpatrick makes it through the Dragons game. He needs a start.

I really hope he does get a start but he won't last the full 80 and will probably get about 60 min, hopefully he can show his worth to kidney in that period of time, or is it just a case of "if he's fit he's in"?

Standulstermen wrote:Another back and prop to be added after this weekends games apparently. Fitz and Jones/madigan maybe

THANK CHRIST!

clivemcl wrote:

Sin é wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I, fairly uncontroversially, feel it would have been better to have named Cave at 13 and BOD or Sexton at 12. Yes, we had to move somebody out of position but at least they were with the squad- Wallace was keeping himself fit and available, actually postponing an operation he needed, but its unreasonable and unprofessional to have a player fly across the world and have just 1 or 2 sessions with the team before a test with the world champions. The decision to call-up Wallace was made problematic by his flight being delayed due to bad weather and it exposes an initial error of judgement by Kidney and the IRFU in the original selection and the number of players brought. This is ancient history.

Wallace could have been out there a heck of a lot faster if he went straight from home and not the beach. Didn't he lose a day by not having his mobile phone with him on the beach? Its not the first time that players have had to fly out to cover injuries (most recently, Damien Varley & Mike Sherry during the world cup).

Why didn't Paddy delay his beach holiday until he wasn't required? Surely that must have been a breach of contract! And as far as I know the 'initial error of judgement by Kidney' was down to cost constraints by the IRFU. Ian Madigan could have slotted in instead if he had been allowed to travel.

WOW, he didn't go back to the hotel room till the next day? Must have had some tan. Sin é, you should have a column in a girly gossip mag.

No, he said he went to the beach in the morning, left his phone in the hotel/apartment and didn't get the message until that evening - so he lost a day (as in daylight). I didn't mention a night (though it was probably too late and he had to wait until the next morning to get a flight).

It was in all the rugby papers. Maybe you should start reading them.

If that's the content of your rugby papers, you can keep them. Did it also have before and after pics Tony Buckleys dramatic weight loss, and an article on how to get that Jamie Heaslip 'look'.

All here in the Irish Times Clive: Paddy even watched the Test Match and saw D'Arcy was injured before heading off to the beach without his phone.

Wallace received the call on Saturday having watched the second Test on television early that morning.

“I was enjoying some sun. I actually didn’t cop when I saw Darce go off. We actually went to the beach and left the phones in the apartment and when I came back there was a long list of missed calls.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0621/1224318355602.html

Sounds great Sin é I'll print that off and wait till next time I'm in a doctors waiting room!

I love how sin e has brought this down to a flimsy argument about paddy Wallace. Grow up mate. He isn't even in the squad.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Another back and prop to be added after this weekends games apparently. Fitz and Jones/madigan maybe

THANK CHRIST!

Ah come on lads have faith! In Deccie we Trust!

Five Euro on Wilkinson and Hurley .

Submachine wrote:Farce.
Am I correct in thinking we will have seven man benches? If so the lack of a specialist tight head back up for Ross is criminal. To expect Tom Court to fill against Matawira if Ross is injured is bonkers. Yeah bonkers, that seems like the most appropriate word.
No full back. None. We have no fullback in our squad. Could have chosen, Hurley, Henshaw or Duffy. In a squad of this size you would expect two full backs.
Twelve players chosen to fill back five of the scrum.
Six centres if you include earls and I do.
The man has completely lost it.

I'm not a kidney apologist but

- with man benches in the AIs. Another prop to be added. Most likely Deccie fitz if uninjured
- Hurley would be a dreadful option at 15. Henshaw I would have liked. Duffy is injured. Henshaw was playing schools rugby last year apparently so it's hard to be too critical. Our options here are turd and potentially jones or madigan will be added this weekend anyway
- fair criticism of the amount of locks/2nd rows but doc and ferris a carrying knocks.
- earls is clearly versatile. An option at 15 too. McFadden also is a back three player while Bowe or Zebo MIGHT be considered at 15 if earls is unfit.


Some calls a poor particularly IMO at 10 but the reality is that after Kearney we have jones and he is just back. As such we are always struggling. fitz out too! I commend kidney for not selecting Hurley.

BelfastDickVet wrote:

Notch wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:BBC are saying there is to be one more prop and one more back added to the squad after the weekend. I presume that he will be having a look at Fitzpatrick and possibly jones.

Thank God. I hope Fitzpatrick makes it through the Dragons game. He needs a start.

I really hope he does get a start but he won't last the full 80 and will probably get about 60 min, hopefully he can show his worth to kidney in that period of time, or is it just a case of "if he's fit he's in"?

Probably that like. I mean, any tighthead in a storm. The options are drastically poor.

I don't understand people's problem with Denis Hurley. I think he is a very under rated player.

red_stag wrote:I don't understand people's problem with Denis Hurley. I think he is a very under rated player.

He has the turning circle of a supertanker and the pace of an arthritic tortoise though.

In seriousness though he is a useful provincial player but he isn't an international

red_stag wrote:I don't understand people's problem with Denis Hurley. I think he is a very under rated player.

More interesting from this squad is the omission of Gavin Duffy. If he is injured then fine, but if not it makes his selection in the previous season's squads and in New Zealand utterly preposterous.

I think he's ok stag. I'd have him at 15 before Fitzgerald..... does a decent job at Munster.

I would go with Madigan though if Kearney is out. He's been excellent under the high ball and adds creativity.

Hookisms, - Duffy is injured.

Standulstermen wrote:

Submachine wrote:Farce.
Am I correct in thinking we will have seven man benches? If so the lack of a specialist tight head back up for Ross is criminal. To expect Tom Court to fill against Matawira if Ross is injured is bonkers. Yeah bonkers, that seems like the most appropriate word.
No full back. None. We have no fullback in our squad. Could have chosen, Hurley, Henshaw or Duffy. In a squad of this size you would expect two full backs.
Twelve players chosen to fill back five of the scrum.
Six centres if you include earls and I do.
The man has completely lost it.

I'm not a kidney apologist but

- with man benches in the AIs. Another prop to be added. Most likely Deccie fitz if uninjured
- Hurley would be a dreadful option at 15. Henshaw I would have liked. Duffy is injured. Henshaw was playing schools rugby last year apparently so it's hard to be too critical. Our options here are turd and potentially jones or madigan will be added this weekend anyway
- fair criticism of the amount of locks/2nd rows but doc and ferris a carrying knocks.
- earls is clearly versatile. An option at 15 too. McFadden also is a back three player while Bowe or Zebo MIGHT be considered at 15 if earls is unfit.


Some calls a poor particularly IMO at 10 but the reality is that after Kearney we have jones and he is just back. As such we are always struggling. fitz out too! I commend kidney for not selecting Hurley.

Yeah wrote this before I noticed the stand by prop issue. But it has to be a specialist tight head. If Dec Fitz does not come through the weekend he has to bring in Hagan or Archer.

Earls can cover 15 but in my mind you play players in their natural positions. I think full back gets lumped in to easily with the tag of "Back three". You wouldn't consider your goal keeper as interchangeable with the rest of your back five.

The reason Kearney, Murphy and Dempsey have been outstanding full backs for us over the years is that they were specialist full backs played at full back (I know all have covered wing but that is an easier transition) . It is easier for a full back to slot in on the wing but not so for a wing to play full back. Bowe, Earls and Fitzpatrick have all done a job for club or country at full back but none have been outstandingly successful.

In my opinion, Hurley as a recognised fullback getting regular game time and playing well would be the correct choice.

Can't believe Madigan isn't in the squad, espeically as no 15 in it! He's been brilliant lately. Hopefully what people saying with the 2 spaces left to fill, DK will see sense and put him in.

It's nice to see younger players in there but can't see DK using them and what's the point if the game plans the same.

When are we going to phase the older players out? ie. ROG, DOC, BOD

BelfastDickVet wrote:I love how sin e has brought this down to a flimsy argument about paddy Wallace. Grow up mate. He isn't even in the squad.

Look closer to home to see who brought up Paddy Wallace. I only explained the circumstances as poor Notch, like most Ulsterfans seem to think that Paddy Wallace is entirely blameless as to why he was late arrival and poor performance in NZ.

Well Paddy, use your cop on when you see a player going off injured that you are meant to be doing injury cover for, and bring your phone with you at least.

1F'sgonnagetya! wrote:
When are we going to phase the older players out? ie. ROG, DOC, BOD

When the provinces stop picking them.

red_stag wrote:I don't understand people's problem with Denis Hurley. I think he is a very under rated player.

I don't think he is underrated. Hes a big, solid player who does the basics well for Munster. He is slow to turn and very slow acceleration.

red_stag wrote:

1F'sgonnagetya! wrote:
When are we going to phase the older players out? ie. ROG, DOC, BOD

When the provinces stop picking them.

...and the provinces will stop picking them when the IRFU stop giving them contracts....