England v Fiji - KO 14:30 Sat 10th NOV at HQ - Match Thread/Build Up etc....

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

Feel free to discuss this game and any other aspect involving the England Rugby team good or bad as your opinions count and you won't be judged (by me) if you go against England, but do try to give a reason!

Please respect other posters opinions


England team to face Fiji

15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 2 caps)
14. Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby, 2 caps)
13. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 7 caps)
11. Ugo Monye (Harlequins, 13 caps)
10. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 50 caps)
9. Danny Care (Harlequins, 33 caps)
1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 3 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 0 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 31 caps)
4. Tom Palmer (London Wasps, 40 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 8 caps)
6. Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 8 caps)
8. Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)


Replacements
16. David Paice (London Irish, 2 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 0 caps)
19. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 0 caps)
20. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 9 caps)
21. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 24 caps)
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 8 caps)
23. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 7 caps)

[Geordie]

Morgan

Well done for spoiling a geunine thread. Good effort

[HERSH]

Dear God.....do we have to have a FECKING WALES v FECKIN ENGLAND slanging match in every FECKIN thread!!!!!!

Its Pi$$ing me off!!!!!

Here, here.

But action is only ever taken against non Welsh posters so you'd be banging your head against a brick wall Geordie.

[HERSH]

Pokemon

[hugehandoff]

it certainly is boring and has ruined a potentially interesting thread......no comment from any mods????

[Duty281]

Dear God.....do we have to have a FECKING WALES v FECKIN ENGLAND slanging match in every FECKIN thread!!!!!!

Its Pi$$ing me off!!!!!

The Welsh are jealous and insecure and have to make these arguments. After all, they're just a small county in England.

[Morgannwg]

Lads, here you go, Wales were brought into this long before I entered the fray.

40% of the vote has gone for a Fiji win, but no reasons given what a shame.

Do try and give reasons my fellow 606ers.

You're bound to get one or two rogue welshmen who would dearly love England to lose to Fiji just so they don't feel too lonely holding that particular mantle.

No need for the apologies to be sent on a postcard, just use the PM facility on V2 in this instance.

[Geordie]

Believe me im not a miserable t%$t and i love a good laugh...and the odd verbal banter on here is good fun....., but it just seems that EVERY thread on here at the moment is just hijacked by either the English or Welsh wums spoiling it.

[HERSH]

Guys it's just Morgannwg continuing his personal war of words against me, he even tried to win an argument the other day by using Pokemon references

Thats what we're up against here.

Anyway back on topic, I just hope Fiji turn up and show some flair that they used to be famous for.

[hugehandoff]

Good point Hersh. A strong Fiji is a delight for the game and especially neutrals......horrible to play against sometimes but at their best they get you to your feet time and time again. I hope they have their strongest team and have been allowed decent preparation time?

[Alex_Germany]

Back to the rugby?

The feeling here is that Lancaster will play what he regards to be his strongest side. That probably means Care, Flood, Barrit, Tuilagi in the back line, with Farrell on the bench.

Farrell is not a favorite here, but he brings something different. With time he could be like Ronan O'Gara (but with a tackle).

Perhaps given its Fiji, Lancaster could be experimental with the subs. It would be great to have Burns and Twelvetrees on the bench to see what they can do. Would that give enough injury cover for the back three?

Or could Lancaster give a start to Allen? Barritt (96kg) is rock solid in defence but I can't see his attack worrying the ABs. I recall Allen (91kg) caused the ABs some trouble with ball in hand (but missed some important tackles). Or is Twelvetrees (100kg) more of a threat ball in hand?

Final question: Do we expect Fiji to be really physical in the way Samoa are? I've often doubted the value of warm up games against Samoa as you'll probably win (Wales apart - sorry couldn't resist ), but lose a few key players to injury.

[Geordie]

Back to the rugby?

Well done mate

The feeling here is that Lancaster will play what he regards to be his strongest side. That probably means Care, Flood, Barrit, Tuilagi in the back line, with Farrell on the bench.

I think your spot on. Though id sooner see Burns than Farrell on the bench for obvious reasons.

Farrell is not a favorite here, but he brings something different. With time he could be like Ronan O'Gara (but with a tackle).

I think the problem people have with him is that hes still very much a work in progress...and that the full England team is not the place to do this...especially when other like Burns etc look to be further down the development line...
Farrell could be an excellent player...

Perhaps given its Fiji, Lancaster could be experimental with the subs. It would be great to have Burns and Twelvetrees on the bench to see what they can do. Would that give enough injury cover for the back three?

I would love to see them on the bench...and think they deserve the chance after their form in the Prem.

Or could Lancaster give a start to Allen? Barritt (96kg) is rock solid in defence but I can't see his attack worrying the ABs. I recall Allen (91kg) caused the ABs some trouble with ball in hand (but missed some important tackles). Or is Twelvetrees (100kg) more of a threat ball in hand?

At the moment i dont think its really fair to judge Barritt on his attacking game when he really hasnt had much of a chance...as England have rarely created any opportunities...and he had been called on to defend most of the time. Im not sure 36 could have done much better. Lets see how he goes this AI...i would love to see 36 get some gametime...but im not convinced he will....

Final question: Do we expect Fiji to be really physical in the way Samoa are? I've often doubted the value of warm up games against Samoa as you'll probably win (Wales apart - sorry couldn't resist ), but lose a few key players to injury.

I dont think they will be to be honest. They have a very strong team a few years back...but seem to be going through a little trough...maybe they have lost a number of players etc...
Regardless we should put out our strongest team...but if the game is won by 50 mins...id make a raft of changes....

Launchbury simply MUST feature in this game...id give him a full half.

[HERSH]

I agree Lancaster has to start the team that he believes will start against Aus.

[cambiaso]

For someone to make the bench, they need to be ready to play a full 80 mins if one of the starters pulls up in the warm up, or gets an early injury. In my opinion Burns, Launchbury and Twelvetrees haven't had enough time with the squad yet for that to be the case, and since we have adequate alternative options (does no one remember Farrell was in most posters' teams of the 6N?), I reckon we leave them out for this one.

[HERSH]

Lets face it injuries do happen and these guys will get a chance at some point over the next four games.

Who knows maybe will see Burns come on against NZ and win the game for us.

[ChequeredJersey]

I think the suggested lineup is fine. It's not our best possible 15 on form but it's OK especially for Fiji and Lawes etc are still likely to make it back in time for some of the other matches.

I like the idea of having a second 1st receiver option at 15. It would be nice if this were not necessary but at the moment it seems to be, due to what we have seen from our options at 10 and 12 and 13 in terms of pure playmaking. Brown IS the most consistently on-form FB of the last 18 months at least, with an ability to score and stop tries and looking infallible under the high ball at the moment, and I think he is desperately unlucky not to be playing but the team has to come first.

Monye and Sharples- fine wingers, Monye on v good form, Sharples I think less so but he's still a threat with no Ashton. Would like to see Wade again at some point or maybe May but that can wait.

Tuilagi- was always going to start
Barritt- deserves a chance to show what he can do in attack
Flood- good form, should perform well as Care is relatively Youngsesque
Care- if he takes his Club form to Internationals (indication of SA tour is that he will), it would be a travesty if he didn't go to AUS with the Lions

Waldrum- meh, but he's solid enough, deceptively fast and fit. I'd have about 3 8s ahead of him but he won't be a weak link. Just a meh link
Robshaw- must have this spot nailed, want to see more of the breakdown work seen in SA, but with his usual tackling back. Now he's getting comfortable, some of his AP linkwork, which is frankly sublime, would be nice
Johnson- earned his spot, but under pressure from Wood, Haskell, Croft etc so he better perform better than in SA where he disappointed me
Parling- with Youngs at tge lineout, I think a necessity for the first couple of games at least
Botha- fine. Not inspirational but fine. Woukd like to see Launchbury play some minutes
Cole- absolute class, nawt more to say
Youngs- interesting but few other options at yhr time of selection and very physical. Hope yhe lineout goes ok.
Marler- scrummaging infinitely better than 12 months ago an showed it at Int level. Needs to bring his excellent loose game along as his is another position of strength with viable replacements in Mullan, Wood, Vunipola and the man he is replacing, Corbs

[RubyGuby]

"maybe will see Burns come on against NZ and win the game for us"

Morning Hersh

[HERSH]

Everyone has to have a dream Ruby

[RubyGuby]

I had one once and I woke up with Alain Rollain lying next to me Still having therapy for it

[maestegmafia]

A little news on Fiji...


Gloucester flanker Akapusi Qera has linked up with Fiji's national squad ahead of Saturday's international against England.

Qera has been in sparkling form for Gloucester in recent weeks and was named man of the match in the recent win over the Leicester Tigers.

The 28 year old, who has won 26 caps for his country and featured in the 2007 and 2011 Rugby World Cups, had initially committed himself to Gloucester throughout the autumn period.

However, the Fijian squad has been affected by injuries as they prepare for their forthcoming tour matches, which includes a game against Gloucester at Kingsholm next Tuesday.

Gloucester's director of rugby Nigel Davies confirmed that Fiji have formally requested that Qera be released to join them.

"We received a request on Monday morning from the Fijian management requesting Akapusi's services as they have been hit by withdrawals in their build up," he said.

"Under the current IRB regulations in these circumstances, we can't actually prevent a player's release and we'll obviously miss him because he's been in great form for us.

"However, we are of the understanding that this is just for the one match. So, we look forward to him returning to the club very shortly and wish him well in the meantime."

[maestegmafia]

Lots of Fijian news about injuries.




Injuries have forced Fiji to make two late changes to the squad for its four-match rugby tour of Europe.

Suva center Josaia Lotawa failed a fitness test and has been replaced in the 30-man touring squad by England-based Sireli Naqelevuki.

New Zealand-based scrum-half Nemia Kenatale has also been ruled out and will be replaced by Nadroga full-back Aisea Natoga. Melbourne Rebels utility Samu Wara will provide cover at scrum-half for Scotland-based Nikola Matawalu and Lautoka's Kelemedi Bola.

Fiji will start its tour on November 10 with a Test against England, followed by matches against Gloucester, Ireland A and Georgia.

[Morgannwg]

What a wonderfully, on-topic thread this is.

[Geordie]

What a wonderfully, on-topic thread this is.

Please keep it that way

[HERSH]

Please try and have an opinion Morgan, even Mae is adding value to this post (Thanks Mae ) otherwise go and Troll/play Pokemon elsewhere.

[RubyGuby]

Please try and have an opinion Morgan, even Mae is adding value to this post (Thanks Mae ) otherwise go and Troll/play Pokemon elsewhere.

I told you those tablets would work Hersh - Anyways, you need to concentrate on the set piece first against Fiji - Scrums and line outs should be yours with ease, rack up the penaltys early on and have fFood kick deep into the fijian 22 where you have a 50/50 chance of winning the lineout - Once you've established superiority here then by all means create the gaps out wide. Just don't play headless chicken rugby from the off - You should be fine as Gareth Jenkins recently turned down the opportunity to join Lancasters back room staff

[Jimpy]

"Sad thing about this game is Lancaster will just want to get through this game without injuries."

What absolute and utter rubbish!!! Lancaster will want to see his team perform to the highest level, come out firing on all cylinders and put Fiji away with a big score. They have to do that to have any chance with the next 3 games up. Hiding players to avoid injury is something he most definitely will NOT do.

Its not rubbish at all. What coach would not be concerned if his players picked up injuries, with much sterner tests to come?

There was no mention of hiding players away to avoid injury, just that SL would be hoping the players he puts out did not pick up injuries.

you ought to think before you speak.

[nobbled]

Please try and have an opinion Morgan, even Mae is adding value to this post (Thanks Mae ) otherwise go and Troll/play Pokemon elsewhere.

Anyways, you need to concentrate on the set piece first against Fiji - Scrums and line outs should be yours with ease, rack up the penaltys early on and have fFood kick deep into the fijian 22 where you have a 50/50 chance of winning the lineout - Once you've established superiority here then by all means create the gaps out wide. Just don't play headless chicken rugby from the off

Sounds like sage advice RubyGuby. I have to be honest - I know virtually nothing about this Fiji squad. What are their strengths? You see their lineout as a weakness, which is good news as it may give Youngs the opportunity to get his eye in...

[Geordie]

I have to be honest - I know virtually nothing about this Fiji squad. What are their strengths?

Nobbled, i think for once most people are in the same boat. Usually we have some idea of their players etc...but aside from Qera..i know very little.

[ChequeredJersey]

Shame Nalaga isn't playing

[ChequeredJersey]

Also strange how there seem to be more big names missing for Fiji than Samoa who have a pretty full strength squad

[Biltong]

GUYS DON'T FORGET YOUR PREDICTIONS

https://www.606v2.com/t36082-autumn-internationals-inhouse-prediction-game

[HERSH]

Predictions anyone?

England 34 Fiji 15

[RubyGuby]

England 55 Fiji 14

[EnglishReign]

Qera in for Fiji does not help England, just don't get injured Q!

I doubt Burns will feature, SL has implied this:

Lancaster, who will name his team for the Fiji match on Thursday, has also played down the chances of Gloucester fly-half Freddie Burns winning his first cap this weekend.
Burns, 22, has been in outstanding form for his club this season and was called into the squad on Sunday as injury cover.
"For a fly-half to come into any team and take control of it without really knowing the structures and systems you're playing with, it's very difficult," said Lancaster.
"Also, I do think Toby Flood has played extremely well recently and Owen Farrell the same. So it's great that we've got that quality in that key position."

But still good experience for the lad.

[RubyGuby]

Burns is on fire at the moment but I doubt Lancaster will risk him early on. If things get edgy he's the sort of player that can spark things quickly - It remains to be seen

[HERSH]

Has Owen Farrell 'played extremely well recently'?

or is SL just going on what Farrell Snr said?

[damage_13]

I want England to play well and start to use the ball as a weapon rather then fear it.

Play well and get the combinations going and the rest will come.

England by 10.

wot this guy wrote.

I want the to see us attack from all over the pitch and start scoring tries like we did in Australia in 2010

[Geordie]

Qera in for Fiji does not help England, just don't get injured Q!

I doubt Burns will feature, SL has implied this:

Lancaster, who will name his team for the Fiji match on Thursday, has also played down the chances of Gloucester fly-half Freddie Burns winning his first cap this weekend.
Burns, 22, has been in outstanding form for his club this season and was called into the squad on Sunday as injury cover.
"For a fly-half to come into any team and take control of it without really knowing the structures and systems you're playing with, it's very difficult," said Lancaster.
"Also, I do think Toby Flood has played extremely well recently and Owen Farrell the same. So it's great that we've got that quality in that key position."

But still good experience for the lad.

If SL geuinely thinks Farrell has been playing well...and is a quality 10 when Burns is tearing up the Prem...then i genuinely fear for England under his and Farrell seniors reign....My calls for Lancaster out will not be far away!!!!

[HERSH]

I'd be happier if Farrell Snr wasn't around the England set up to be honest, there is always going to be a conflict of interest IMO.

[maestegmafia]

When is the team announced?

[HERSH]

10mins before KO.

[HERSH]

SEE LINK.

http://www.rfu.com/qbeinternationals

[LondonTiger]

Dear God.....do we have to have a FECKING WALES v FECKIN ENGLAND slanging match in every FECKIN thread!!!!!!

Its Pi$$ing me off!!!!!

Yes, yes we do. Otherwise the whole universe will disappear up its own bumhole.

I think. (Rarely)

[beshocked]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/02/glen-jackson-referee

Ref for the game is Glen Jackson.

[lostinwales]

When is the team announced?

When the visas come through?

[maestegmafia]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/02/glen-jackson-referee

Ref for the game is Glen Jackson.

Is it his first International?

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/02/glen-jackson-referee

Ref for the game is Glen Jackson.

Is it his first International?

I think so. He only started reffing Super Rugby last season. He's done at least one international as TMO, and may have been a touch judge during TRC.

[beshocked]

No it might be his 2nd.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/tony-ward-jacksons-meteoric-rise-to-top-level-can-inspire-more-former-players-to-take-up-whistle-3281310.html

[HERSH]

Good for him, the game needs more guys like him, at least his played the game to a high level.

[maestegmafia]

Here are some of Jerry Guscotts thoughts on selection from the BBC website's online Q&A session.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20215206


Mike Brown was as strong, brave and quick-witted as ever at the weekend for Harlequins. Is he a shoe-in at full-back for England for the three "real" autumn internationals that follow the Fiji game? mikej

Hi Mikej, given his form he has a very good chance of starting and, because he was picked ahead of Ben Foden in South Africa, you would think he'd still be in line to play. However, England boss Stuart Lancaster could go for Saracens' Alex Goode, as he offers a different option because he can come in as a first receiver during the phases, and Lancaster might want to try that out in the first Test against Fiji. I think Brown should be selected on current form.


Hi Jeremy, very simple question, what are your predictions for the weekend's autumn internationals? Joew

Hi Joew, England to win by about 15 points against Fiji, Wales to win by a score against Argentina, Scotland to lose by about 20 points to the All Blacks, Ireland to lose to South Africa by a score, France to win by a score against Australia.


Being realistic, how many wins do you expect England to get during the autumn? Rugby Lad

Hi Rugby Lad, it's a tough one to answer but I'd say two - against Fiji and either Australia or South Africa.



Which player do you see as a long term inside centre for England, to add more creativity to the midfield? os99

Hi, the long term inside centre is likely to be Manu Tuilagi because I think his fitness, passing and off-loading game will develop more quickly than the speed which he would need to play at outside centre. There is no doubt in my mind Tuilagi can be as good if not better than a player like Ma'a Nonu of New Zealand.

England's current 12, Brad Barritt, is a good player. His performances are consistent, he tackles well and he can carry the ball well to the gainline. There's not a lot wrong with Barritt and Tuilagi playing together, it just limits your passing game, because as a defence you know the ball isn't going to get wide quickly.

Billy Twelvetrees could develop into a good inside centre. He has the skills of an outside half, his pace is reasonable and he has good vision with a pass to match. He needs more game time there - this has been his first full season as first choice because, before he moved to Gloucester, he was not a regular at Leicester.



After Christian Wade and Tom Varndell made David Strettle look second rate on Sunday, how long will it be before one or both of the Wasps wings are included in the England set-up? Rodb

Hi Rodb, Lancaster is blessed with in-form wingers and it looks as though Charlie Sharples and Ugo Monye will start against Fiji. Wade went on the South Africa tour so is on the radar and will be included should anyone else get injured.



Hi Jerry, why is it England have not called up a specialist open-side flanker such as Andy Saull of Saracens to the elite squad because it seems like all the other best nations use them? alex

Hi Alex, Lancaster has decided that neither Saull nor Toulon's Steffon Armitage fit into the way he sees England playing. It's a strange decision given some of the best international back rows have a specialist open-side in their formation.
Some international teams can get away without having a specialist seven, but when they come up against another team that has a specialist open-side they tend to struggle. Personally I think it's a bit shortsighted not to include Armitage considering his brilliant form in the French top flight, just to see the different dynamic he would bring to the back row.

Hi Jerry, I'm thrilled that Freddie Burns has been called up to the England elite squad but with the residents Toby Flood and Owen Farrell already established at international level, how likely do you think it is that Lancaster will give Burns a chance at 10? Azaer

Hi Azaer, it's very unlikely that Burns will play, he's actually in as a centre replacement for the injured Jordan Turner-Hall. Flood or Farrell would have to pick up an injury during training this week for Burns to get in the 22.



With the top teams in the Premiership having totally different playing styles, how does Lancaster (or any of the home nations coaches) forge a game-plan that brings out the best in his players and wins matches? Loper

Hi, it's a very good question which takes a lot of explaining but this is the short version.
He selects - in his opinion - the best players in each position to fulfil his plan of how he sees the team playing in order to win games. Lancaster has to hope he can keep these players together long enough to create an understanding, a bond between him, his coaches and his players that becomes intuitive.
It's not really about the teams in the Premiership, it's about the players in those teams and their individual ability. It is harder for a coach like Lancaster than say Steve Hansen of New Zealand.
The New Zealanders have played the same way for a long time and all their provincial teams play in the same way. It's easier for Hansen to slot a new player in because he's already used to playing the way the coach wants and their skill level is generally good enough.
All the English players may play in a similar way, but what makes the difference is the exceptions to the rule, the ones that have more talent and do more than the shirt number suggests. In the end it is the quality of the player that matters - and currently England don't have the best players in all positions in comparison to the best that New Zealand, for instance, can turn to.



Hi Jerry, why is Harlequins number eight Nick Easter getting the "too old" write-off when Simon Shaw represented England aged 37/38 at the World Cup, and Brad Thorn helped New Zealand win it at 36? If we got to 2015 and he was still the best number eight in the country at the age of 37, do you think Lancaster would include him then? This applies to other England early-30s cast-offs too! Bounceoftheball

Hi, I don't disagree with the view a lot of people have, namely that Easter is the form number eight in the English league. Unfortunately for Easter, in my opinion, he didn't play consistently well for England when selected, certainly not as well as he had been doing for Quins.
On form there is no doubt Easter should be playing. It's a very hard decision that Lancaster has made but he stands by it and I don't believe Easter will figure again unless there are injuries.

[robbo277]

England 23 announced. Team due Thursday.

http://www.therugbyblog.co.uk/england-squad-trimmed-to-23-for-fiji-game

Likely line-up:

Marler, Youngs, Cole, Palmer, Parling, Johnson, Robshaw (C), Waldrom
Care, Flood, Monye, Barritt, Tuilagi, Sharples, Brown
Paice, Vunipola, Wilson, Launchberry, Wood, Youngs, Farrell, Goode.

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