Saints v Ulster Friday HEC 7th December

First topic message reminder :

So the big double header kicks off at Franklin's Gardens on Friday evening. Both teams will believe a win is possible but who will prevail?

Ulster coach Mark Anscombe says Ulster will need to improve on the current form. I would agree, though the disruption of Autumn Internationals wouldn't have helped.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/19701.php#.ULyVo-RWySo

Interesting interview with Pat Lam (Former Saints captain) who actually thinks these sides could face each other in the Final next May.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchdaytv?play=media&id=13581

Ulster XV & replacements to face Northampton Saints, Heineken Cup, Friday 7th December, Franklin's Gardens (8.00pm):
(15-9): J Payne; T Bowe, D Cave, P Wallace, A Trimble; P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (c), D Tuohy, I Henderson, C Henry, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): N Brady, C Black, R Lutton, R Diack, N Williams, P Marshall, L Marshall, C Gilroy.

Northampton XV.

(15-9): B Foden; K Pisi, G Pisi, D Waldouck, J Elliott; R Lamb, M Roberts;

(1-8): S Tonga'uiha, D Hartley (c), B Mujati, S Manoa, C Lawes, C Clark, T Wood, G van Velze;

Replacements (16-23): M Haywood, A Waller, P Doran-Jones, M Sorenson, P Dowson, L Dickson, S Myler, T May.

I think Anscombe has got it right this week. Right down to the bench.

Forgot to add one more point. I am a big leadership guy. Both teams have very good captains. That can help teams during the times when under pressure at any time.

I'd agree with that, up to the boys to do it on the field now.
Bit gutted for McComb, he has come on massively.

Great tache too

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/movember-power-rankings-this-years-best-sporting-mos-10-1-696293-Dec2012/#slide-slideshow10

Hey who can tell what will happen in the match, you cant predict it. Right now Anscombe has got it right but if locks where to get injured and we lost because of it then it would be wrong but you can't predict that you can only go what we have now and now it is right

Seems both coaches have it about right. Time to play the game.

It is a funny shaped ball and does bounce in strange directions. No one can predict that.............

Northampton XV named.

(15-9): B Foden; K Pisi, G Pisi, D Waldouck, J Elliott; R Lamb, M Roberts;

(1-8): S Tonga'uiha, D Hartley (c), B Mujati, S Manoa, C Lawes, C Clark, T Wood, G van Velze;

Replacements (16-23): M Haywood, A Waller, P Doran-Jones, M Sorenson, P Dowson, L Dickson, S Myler, T May.

Dickson on the bench, Roberts starts at 9.

doctor_grey wrote:

profitius wrote:Are the Saints fans confident? I think the packs will be about even but Ulsters backline will be the difference.

Profitius,
I will speak for all the Saints fans here on 606. We are cautiously optimisitc, as people should be when two good teams play each other. But certainly not more than that. My thoughts:
I think our pack is slightly better than yours:
Both front rows are terrific.
Your second row is better in the set piece, ours better and quicker in the loose.
Our back row is somewhat better.

Your halfbacks are better. Dickson is very good, but Pienaar is great.
Centres are about even (admittedly I am not too familiar with your centres)
Your wings are much better.
Our fullback is better.

My biggest concern, which I have stated before, is we cannot shut off at all during the match. If we don't play full out for all 80 minutes, I have nightmares of your wings running sprints against us.

I like that summation but I think you a underestimating Jared Payne. I think he would walk onto most international teams. It's going to be a cracker though!

When I read doctor_grey's summation , I thought exactly the same, Jared Payne is the best back 3 player on the pitch for me, close with Bowe though.

Monkeyan wrote:Hi Doc,

I'll be heading over with a few mates - any tips on good pubs near the ground?

Ta

Sorry I missed your post earlier, mate. On the same road with The Gardens there is The Foundry, The Rover, and the Thomas A Beckett. They are all between the Gardens and the town centre on Weedon Road. The Foundry and The Rover are closer to the stadium. Just follow the crowd.

According to Saints mythology, and possibly true, Franklin's Gardens have the longest bar in England.
Although none to scenic on the inside, there will be lots 'o folks having good Rugby conversation. And open to everyone, even Leicester supporters, so Ulster supporters will be like long-lost brothers.

Great minds lads.

Foden is good but I would not swap Payne for him.

Getting excited now!!!!

MrsP wrote:Foden is good but I would not swap Payne for him.

I supose we get a chance to see. If Payne outplays Foden, then I owe you all a beer. If Foden outplays Payne, you all owe me a beer. And we pay each other off at the HEC Finals...........

Deal!

Either your liver or your wallet will regret that bet!

I hope it's your wallet! Just for the sake of your health of course.



We did agree that I would be the arbiter or the decision, didn't we?

If it's dry I'd fancy an Ulster win by three tries to one.
If it's wet I'd fear a Saints win by one penalty try to nil.

According to the Beeb Northampton is not expecting any weather at all at 7pm tomorrow!

I suspect it is another tactic like the one they pulled last week to hinder our preparation.

#dirtyrottencheats

Nah, we don't receive any favouritism. The beeb doesn't lke Northampton because the city is less than beautiful (on the outside). There is no bad weather forecast because we - Saints Organisation - have arranged this out of respect for our Ulster guests.

doctor_grey wrote:Nah, we don't receive any favouritism. The beeb doesn't lke Northampton because the city is less than beautiful (on the outside). There is no bad weather forecast because we - Saints Organisation - have arranged this out of respect for our Ulster guests.

Thats terribly nice of you guys, much appreciated and since the beeb has no clue who actually plays for us I wouldn't worry about them lol

Gotta say that i'd have backed Saints to win this going by their early season form but now not too sure.

I just don't trust the half backs and the centres still seem to struggle to create out side them.

I guess they'll be going with Lamb and hoping he has one of his good days.

The sooner George Ford becomes available the better, It's been ages since they had a youngster with some talent to try to mould... wait George had a brother who played rugby??

OK, now I am officially concerned. I was wrong with four selections:
15 Ben FODEN
14 Ken PISI
13 George PISI
12 Dom WALDOUCK
11 Jamie ELLIOTT
10 Ryan LAMB
9 Martin ROBERTS
1 Soane TONGA'UIHA
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Brian MUJATI
4 Samu MANOA
5 Courtney LAWES
6 Calum CLARK
7 Tom WOOD
8 GJ VAN VELZE

Replacements
16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Alex WALLER
18 Paul DORAN JONES
19 Mark SORENSON
20 Phil DOWSON
21 Lee DICKSON
22 Stephen MYLER
23 Tom MAY

Reasons for concern for Saints fans and/or reasons to start drinking now?

Van Velze is a penalty machine. Hopefully he draws no yellow cards on Friday (let's not discuss the possibility of a red). Obviously Jim Mallinder has seen something? But must be with his secret double X-ray glasses and he sees things the rest of us don't see.

Ryan Lamb. Nuff said.

Martin Roberts. Actually a pretty good player, but his service has been slower than Dickson's. We will need fast ball. And he doesn't practice with the firsts so much.

Ryan Lamb. Nuff said.

Jamie Elliott v Artemyev doesn't bother me. Jamie is a real good player. A real quality young lad, only 20 years old, with a great nose for the line. Perhaps this is the wild card which Jim Mallinder is playing?

Some big games this weekend

been looking forward to this one since the draw.

Chance to get one back on Saints for putting us out in q-final.

To be honest at start of season though Saints will win at home and Ulster will beat them at Ravenhill and this group will come down to LBP's and try BP's.

However while I still think Saints will win at home, part of me is thinks that we can beat them this weekend.

Both seam equally likely to happen a real 50/50 game.

At Ravenhill I'd have it 55/45 in Ulsters favor, this weekend though instead of being 55/45 in Saints favor, I call it 50/50

PaddyPower has it saints 8/11 Ulster 6/5, they make Saints odds on favourites, which is good for Saints fans to be Favourites.

so if they have it 6/5 and I think it should be evens that makes it a value bet.

doctor_grey wrote:I will speak for all the Saints fans here on 606

Feeling lonely?

Few questions, doc_grey

why the Lamb and Roberts half back partnership,
isn't Myler and Dickson the first choice one?

Is one partnership more physical/better at running the ball/kicking for touch?
Myler and Dickson there to come on to make an impact?
Does this suggest tatics Saints will start with?

Think your centers are bigger and more physical, is this going to be a Saints bash em up game?

From what I have seen of Saints Myler is the more tactical kicker with lamb being the player who is more daring or as Grey eluded to too daring. Put it this way I think we will get more spare change out of Lamb at 10 than I think we would have of Myler.

Hartley is one of those players I dislike but respect, same as Ashton and Saints used to hate them both.

Ashton, I grew to respect for not going down when nailed by Tuilagi, (though since Tuilagi didn't get sent off, he should have), but those big show off dives...

Hartley likes to wind other teams up, I'm sure Saints fans love him and fans of other teams love to hate him.

Soooooooooo looking forward to this game... hurry up and be tomorrow already

neilthom7 wrote:From what I have seen of Saints Myler is the more tactical kicker with lamb being the player who is more daring or as Grey eluded to too daring. Put it this way I think we will get more spare change out of Lamb at 10 than I think we would have of Myler.

Think of Lamb as Ian Humphries and Myler as a cross between Ronan O'Gara and Niall O'Connor

Yes that seems like a fairly accurate description. Lamb tends to do more stupid stuff than even Humphreys though. Strange that Dickson doesn't play though, I do watch a lot of Aviva rugby when I am off at the weekends and he is an excellent little player.

B91212 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I will speak for all the Saints fans here on 606

Feeling lonely?

Hey baby!
Where you been? Still up in the frozen tundra?

Was missing you through the week. You just doubled the number of Saints supporters here. So now the ratio is about 100,000 Ulsterdudes to 2 Saints supporters. In other words, right about about even..........

We need some global bonding here to help restrain some of these obstreperous Ulster supporters. They are actually feeling good about their team. We can't have that, can we?

For any of them which come over to watch at the Gardens, if we make them stay at the Moat House, that should be enough to suck the energy out of them. Certainly the bedbugs and the creepy crawlies in the closets will.

Cripe, this game is going to be tough. Ulster are one of the only teams with a front row to match ours. And their wings are better. But if can pull off the win tomorrow night, then we have a great shot to get to the knock-outs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16QZkyFrRUM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBziW9qQvsc&list=PL2AA59F22728E4579&playnext=2&feature=autoplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNfkuEsZB-Q&playnext=1&list=PL00E4F8AA09A87E8A&feature=results_video

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Think of Lamb as Ian Humphries and Myler as a cross between Ronan O'Gara and Niall O'Connor

I think of Ryan Lamb as a cross between Rowan Atkinson and Sacha Baron Cohen.

No good idea the rationale for stating Martin Roberts and Lamb. I do think Saints will try to bash it up through your centres, especially with George Pisi at 13. Myler is indeed the ideal player to bring on if Saints get ahead. But that kind of ignores a minor detail. We need to get ahead first and not give away any cheap points the other way. Dickson is class, so I am unsure what is behind that move. Unless he was injured against Sale last week and it never made the media.

Just make sure you book mark those clips lads.

Might bring you some comfort over the next week or so!

Flip I disappear for a day and the Saints fans have taken over the thread! ....

Yeah boys enjoy this when it hits you about 20mins from the end. HULK SMASH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkJW6joaZHg

doctor_grey wrote:

B91212 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I will speak for all the Saints fans here on 606

Feeling lonely?

Hey baby!
Where you been? Still up in the frozen tundra?

Was missing you through the week. You just doubled the number of Saints supporters here. So now the ratio is about 100,000 Ulsterdudes to 2 Saints supporters. In other words, right about about even..........

We need some global bonding here to help restrain some of these obstreperous Ulster supporters. They are actually feeling good about their team. We can't have that, can we?

For any of them which come over to watch at the Gardens, if we make them stay at the Moat House, that should be enough to suck the energy out of them. Certainly the bedbugs and the creepy crawlies in the closets will.

Cripe, this game is going to be tough. Ulster are one of the only teams with a front row to match ours. And their wings are better. But if can pull off the win tomorrow night, then we have a great shot to get to the knock-outs.

Yup, still up north and already under a couple of feet of snow. Been away for a couple of months due to being stupidly busy at work (99% of my posts are done here at work). It's still stupidly busy but in more of a f*** it mood now, must be something to do with the festive season I guess. I did think about posting a couple of weeks back but saw all the shenanigans going on and decided to leave it a while longer.

Although the game is a bit too close to call I'm not overly confident. Ulster are certainly improved from our last meeting whilst I feel we seem to have stalled a little in terms of progressing.

Agree that it is not the first 15 that I would have picked. Concerns over Tiny, he's not the player he was in the loose and seems to have issues with binding but he's the best we have for now (I'm more upset with Mujarti leaving at the end of the season). Would have like to have seen Dowson starting at 8. For me it isn't just that Van Velze is a penalty machine, he doesn't seem the be the brightest of players and often gets himself isolated with ball in hand, resulting in turnovers (and penalties!). Although I think with experience he will come good but he's currently not anywhere near the class of Roger Wilson. With Manoa and Lawes starting there should be enough carrying ability already in the pack to not need a huge ball carrier at 8.

In the backs Roberts is maybe more of a threat with ball in hand around the fringes than Dickson but I would still start with the England man given the choice, and I think Lamb is now firmly established as JM's first choice 10. His game management has improved this season but he is still prone to a very flaky display when you least want it. Is Roberts starting because the management feel he works best with Lamb? I would have preferred to see Myler start. The pitch may be heavy (snow and rain earlier this week) which I think he is better suited to. Happy to see Elliot start over Artemyev. The Russian is probably a bigger threat in attack but his defense can be questionable, especially against larger wingers. I'm actually happy with the centers and feel we have actually improved here on last season.

As for Ulster Afoa & Best are class and like most Saints fans I'm a huge Roger Wilson fan. Pienaar is for me just about the best 9 in rugby at moment (admittedly it's currently not the strongest position for world class players) - he may not be the greatest running threat but his game management is at times faultless. I've not seen much of the Ulster 15 but if people on here are saying he is as good or better than Foden then he must have something about him.

All in all I feel the packs are about equal but that Ulster are stronger in the backs, especially at 9 and the back 3. Hopefully home advantage will see us through!

Hope your doing okay, are you still having to tuck your jeans into your socks after Auntie Sandy's visit? Sorry to read about your Dad, the worst thing about being an expat is when family members get sick.

I'm not going to this one...but I've finalised my Belfast trip today, so I'll be there for the Ulster/Glasgae clash next month...just sayin'


I can't blydi wait!

Good post B91212 - with regards to Roger Wilson I'll be sticking a few quid on him to score a try against his old club. (I always go for bets like that) With regards to Payne the guy is pure class, before coming to Ulster he was the form player in an all-star Auckland Blues backline which included the likes of Rokocoko, but when we signed him Payne was the pick of their backs. In his first season (last season) he was injured in his second match and out for the season, but this season he has been our best back. He just oozes class and is so composed in defence and under the high ball and displays fantastic poise and reading of the game in attack.

The front row battle will be immense, I think its the two best front rows in these isles and they are both a match for any of the front rows the French have to offer - it will be a key area in the game.

Can't wait for the game, got myself a bottle of Scotch ready for it.

Its a bit tough with my Dad.
My dad, uncle and I had been discussing making a Rugby week out of the Ulster-Saints double-header, but that was before my dad's atria started misbehaving. I'm leaving to go to the airport in an hour to fly home for the weekend again. At least my uncle and I will be at the Gardens tomorrow night. In consideration, I would appreciate if Ulster lose by 30.

All in all, Sandy was not too bad where I live. I only lost power for two days, but others lost it for more than two weeks. We are not near the shore communities, some of those towns were wiped out.

doctor_grey wrote:Its a bit tough with my Dad.
My dad, uncle and I had been discussing making a Rugby week out of the Ulster-Saints double-header, but that was before my dad's atria started misbehaving. I'm leaving to go to the airport in an hour to fly home for the weekend again. At least my uncle and I will be at the Gardens tomorrow night. In consideration, I would appreciate if Ulster lose by 30.

All in all, Sandy was not too bad where I live. I only lost power for two days, but others lost it for more than two weeks. We are not near the shore communities, some of those towns were wiped out.

Safe travels, enjoy the game and have a couple of pints of at the Gardens for me!

Artful_Dodger wrote:Good post B91212 - with regards to Roger Wilson I'll be sticking a few quid on him to score a try against his old club. (I always go for bets like that) With regards to Payne the guy is pure class, before coming to Ulster he was the form player in an all-star Auckland Blues backline which included the likes of Rokocoko, but when we signed him Payne was the pick of their backs. In his first season (last season) he was injured in his second match and out for the season, but this season he has been our best back. He just oozes class and is so composed in defence and under the high ball and displays fantastic poise and reading of the game in attack.

The front row battle will be immense, I think its the two best front rows in these isles and they are both a match for any of the front rows the French have to offer - it will be a key area in the game.

Can't wait for the game, got myself a bottle of Scotch ready for it.

Your description of Payne has jogged my memory a little, I can kind of remember him from watching super rugby (I think). Regarding the front row battle we're not as strong as we once were, like I say Tiny has struggled in 2012 at times to bind against the top tight heads. Manoa and Lawes are pretty strong though so plenty of power should come through from the second row.

I will not actually get to watch the game live, which is played around 1pm here. I try to sneak out early on Fridays and "work from home" when the big games are on but one of guys has a days vacation so I will have to stay this time. Mrs is in Friday evening so will have to do something boring so probably will wait until Saturday morning to watch it whilst the rest of the house is sleeping.

Enjoy the .

Will do

Cari wrote:I'm not going to this one...but I've finalised my Belfast trip today, so I'll be there for the Ulster/Glasgae clash next month...just sayin'

Enjoy! I hope you have a great trip.

Unlucky that your not getting to watch the mighty Saints there instead of Glasgow though (just sayin' myself ).

Cari wrote:I'm not going to this one...but I've finalised my Belfast trip today, so I'll be there for the Ulster/Glasgae clash next month...just sayin'


I can't blydi wait!

I have it on good authority that Tommy Bowe will be rested for that one... .....

rodders wrote:

Cari wrote:I'm not going to this one...but I've finalised my Belfast trip today, so I'll be there for the Ulster/Glasgae clash next month...just sayin'


I can't blydi wait!

I have it on good authority that Tommy Bowe will be rested for that one... .....

Rodders get to the safe house, we will move you when it's safe we will have you out of the country before she even realises lol

Has anyone seen the Ravens team?

(15-9): Adam D’Arcy; Ricky Andrew, Michael Allen, Niall O’Connor, Chris Cochrane; Stuart Olding, Michael Heaney;
(1-8): Conor Carey, Niall Annett, Richard Lutton, James Simpson, Neil McComb (capt), Conor Joyce, Ali Birch, Mike McComish;
Replacements (16-22): Rob Herring, Adam Macklin, Alan O’Connor, Sean O’Connell, Blane McIlroy, Stuart McCloskey, Rory Scholes

NOC at 12?

I don't remember him playing there before.

Good to see Darcy starting too. Hope he gets back to form soon.

Oh hardy har har Rodders. He'll be there, and score a try or two just for me when he hears my familiar shrill of excitement...

Good to see D'arcy back he's been missing for far to long, in the BandI cup how many players do you get that started in a H-cup q-final?

NoC at 12 maybe they are trying to convert him so he can cover more positions, or decided he's hot a great 10 but could be like Wallace at 12?

not as much talk here today, we must have jibber jabbered ourselves out yesterday.

Saints are named after St James the patron Saint of places, don't know if that will have much relevence or start any chit chat

Cari wrote:Oh hardy har har Rodders. He'll be there, and score a try or two just for me when he hears my familiar shrill of excitement...

Good Luck Ulster. Start the weekend off well with a good win

....and we'll *gulp*...em, try to do a few fancy swivels and things... and have Isa's locks blowing in the wind and things. Can't promise a win though....

I fancy an Ulster win. Could be the only Irish win of the weekend.

Cheers lads ... this will be a tight one! Will be delighted if we can sneak a win.... absolute minimum is a losing bonus and keep Saints to 4pts.

SUFTUM!

Ulster to win...and a try from Tommy. Oh go on, it's nearly Christmas...

Had a bit of a panic there, sky go wouldn't work, but got it sorted now.

SUFTUM.

Is it at FG's???