Greatest: Round 2: Choose your 7

Rules and context here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38622-the-greatest-introduction-the-rules

Previous threads here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38819-greatest-round-2-choose-your-15#1753473
https://www.606v2.com/t38887-greatest-round-2-choose-your-11-14
https://www.606v2.com/t38898-greatest-round-2-choose-your-13
https://www.606v2.com/t38921-greatest-round-2-choose-your-12
https://www.606v2.com/t38949-greatest-round-2-choose-your-10
https://www.606v2.com/t38974-greatest-round-2-choose-your-9
https://www.606v2.com/t39002-greatest-round-2-choose-your-8

Brief:
• Vote for one player only in the no. 7 position.
• Votes are cancellable so in the event that the loose forward trio would be better balanced if you changed your mind, feel free to do so.
• I have decided to be tough and only offer for selection players most closely associated with the position. So sorry, you can’t have Michael Jones up for the 6 and 7 shirts (although practically that’s what most people would consider justified)
• It can be assumed that players in the amateur era would have been just as dominant vis a vis their historical peers if they had followed professional conditioning programmes.

Your shortlist (in no particular order):

1. Michael Jones
Samoa – 1 cap, New Zealand – 55 caps

Rugby fans of a younger vintage tend to assume automatically that Ritchie McCaw must surely be the greatest openside-flanker of all time. Those people slightly older will immediately hesitate when asked the question and then looked pained for a long time. Those people saw Laauli Michael Niko Jones play. Jones revolutionised the position with his physical prowess, superior fitness and instinct for the ball, but while he was a joy to watch his career was often punctuated with time away from the field because of injury and his refusal to play on Sundays for religious reasons.

Jones ensured his legacy from his debut at the age of 22 when he scored the opening try of the inaugural World Cup in 1987. He went on to play a major role is securing New Zealand the title. When he was on the field he was sublime. He had pace, athleticism, ball skills and a punishing tackle which quickly won him acclaim as one of the most gifted rugby players of all time. Despite being a bruising forward he had the vision and speed of a back. In one of the World Cup pool matches against Fiji he showed the finesse and judgement of a centre in setting up a try for his winger, Craig Green.

Much to coaches and spectators' disappointment, Jones had career marred by injury. He suffered a serious knee injury during a match against Argentina in 1989 which ruled him out for nearly a year. He returned at the end of the 1990 season and was taken to the 1991 World Cup despite concerns over his availability for Sunday matches. He scored in the opening match against England at Twickenham but the All Blacks would learn that his strict beliefs would become a problem when he was unavailable for three matches during the tournament and was not selected for the 1995 World Cup because the quarter and semi-finals were scheduled for Sundays.

In the mid-1990s Jones switched from openside flank to the blindside, both with Auckland and the All Blacks. He coped well with the physicality and the All Blacks benefited from his strength, commitment and bullish tackling. With Jones wearing the No. 6 jersey in 1996 New Zealand scored a record 43-6 win over the Wallabies at Athletic Park, won the inaugural Tri-Nations title and won a Test series for the first time over the Springboks in South Africa.

Jones suffered a broken jaw and another serious knee injury and recovered from both, but by 1998 and aged 33 it was becoming clear that the effects of his many injuries were beginning to take their toll. Rarely for Jones he was dropped from the All Blacks side of 1998 and missed the final two Tests of the season. His final international was against Australia in Christchurch on August 1. The Wallabies won 27-23. Even though his on-field career was winding down Jones added the 1999 NPC title with Auckland and played for the Auckland Blues in that season's Super 12.

Jones ended his playing career with 55 Test caps for the All Blacks, a relatively small amount compared with his contemporary Sean Fitzpatrick who numbered in the 90s over the same period. Jones scored 56 points - 13 tries - in internationals and a total of 69 points (16 tries) from 74 matches in the black jersey.

In 2004 Jones turned attention to coaching and took over from John Boe as the coach of Manu Samoa, a country of his descendents and a side he played a Test match for once in 1986 before he was selected for the All Blacks. After assisting Boe at the 2003 World Cup, Jones took the proud island nation to France in 2007 but encountered possibly one of the most demoralising times of his professional life. The Pacific Islanders produced one of their worst performances at a World Cup, losing to Tonga, their island arch-rivals, for the first time in seven years. Jones resigned at the end of the tournament.

It will not be the coaching that Jones will be remembered for, however. A constant fixture on all-time greatest list, Jones made his mark as a player who would punish his opposition on the field but was the first to shake their hand as soon as the final whistle blew. Jones is the player’s player and will never be forgotten. Unfortunately for Ritchie McCaw.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpzbCL5Ic0o

2. Jean-Pierre Rives
France – 59 caps

During his career with France, Jean Pierre Rives came to epitomise the team's spirit as a risk-taking and gloriously unpredictable outfit. A blond bombshell in the French back row, Rives overcame criticisms that he was too small to play international rugby with his ultra-committed, no guts-no-glory, dambusters style of play.

Born in Toulouse, Rives first represented his hometown club in 1974. It was not long until his unmistakable talent gained attention from the national selectors and Rives made his France debut against England in 1975, at the age of 22. It was the start of an international career that would take him to the very top in terms of both personal and team achievements.

While Rives' long blond mane made him the most recognisable figure in the French side, he was also a part of one of the all-time great back rows alongside Jean-Claude Skrela and Jean-Pierre Bastiat. As much as anything it was Rives' utter commitment to maintaining the French style of play that endeared him so much to fans the world over. Playing with a freedom and vigour that is all too uncommon in the modern game, Rives appeared at times to be in several places on the field at once and possessed enormous upper body strength for a man his size.

He was instrumental in helping France to the Grand Slam in 1977, an achievement that would have been repeated the following season had it not been for the decider being against the irresistible 1978 Wales team in Cardiff. Rives had been installed as French captain during that 1978 season, and it was in this guise that he would achieve perhaps his finest victory.

On Bastille Day, July 14, 1979, Rives and his France team faced down the might of the All Blacks at Eden Park, Auckland. A week earlier the French had been easily defeated 23-9 at Lancaster Park. It was a different story in Auckland, as the All Blacks came up against a French side imbued with the confidence to run the ball from every corner of the field. The All Black's defence was shredded on four occasions as France triumphed 24-19 in an exhibition of Gallic flair. Rives continued to lead France with distinction, and brought a further Grand Slam in 1981 following a 16-12 win over England at Twickenham.

Rives would have his career ended by a succession of shoulder injuries in 1984. His final match for France came in that year's Five Nations defeat to Scotland at Murrayfield. Rives was going for a hat-trick of Grand Slams that day, but instead the glory went to the Scots. He captained France 34 times in all.

He has not lost all ties with the sport that brought him fame, however, and was instrumental in bringing the 2007 Rugby World Cup to France. Rives was part of the opening ceremony and also was a member of the presentation party, awarding the Webb Ellis Cup to John Smit and South Africa.

One of his sculptures is now also a part of the French rugby calendar, after he was asked in 2007 to design the Giussepe Garibaldi Trophy. The trophy is awarded annually to the winner of the Six Nations match between France and Italy. While he is now a fixture of the French art scene, for many Jean-Pierre Rives will always be the hyper-competitive ball of fury at the base of the French scrum. A blood-stained hero, Rives remains an iconic presence to fans the world over.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP2GxJI7P9o

3. Ritchie McCaw
New Zealand - 116 caps

Richie McCaw is one of the greats of the modern game, having led the All Blacks to Rugby World Cup glory in 2011 and having claimed the International Rugby Board's Player of the Year award on a record three occasions.

He has carved out a formidable reputation as the best openside flanker in the world since emerging onto the international stage at only 20 years of age. A master of the breakdown area, McCaw possesses the size and strength to be a formidable defender whilst displaying the speed and handling skills to excel in the loose.

After impressing at U19 and U21 levels, McCaw was handed his All Blacks debut against Ireland in Dublin on November 17, 2001 where he signalled his intent with an eye-catching performance as the tourists accounted for the hosts. He captained his country for the first time against Wales in 2004 when he was aged just 23.

McCaw played a key part in New Zealand's Tri-Nations triumphs in 2002 and 2003 and in doing so helped the All Blacks end the Wallabies' five-year Bledisloe Cup reign. The 2003 Rugby World Cup saw him cement his reputation as one of the rising stars of the game. McCaw produced some notable performances for the tournament favourites but eventually had to share in the disappointment as the All Blacks were undone by rivals and hosts Australia in the semi-finals.

The formidable loose forward made the switch to openside flanker in 2005, the same year the All Blacks accounted for the touring British & Irish Lions. That year saw the first of four successive Tri-Nations triumphs for New Zealand with McCaw captaining the side to victory on the latter three occasions. This successful run also saw McCaw add the IRB Player of the Year award to his list of honours in 2006 after being a finalist in both the International Rugby Players' Association and IRB awards in 2003 and again for the IRB in 2005. McCaw led the All Blacks into the 2007 Rugby World Cup where again they were favourites but again success on the sport's biggest stage evaded McCaw and his team.

McCaw led the All Blacks to the Tri-Nations title in 2008, before skippering the side to their third Grand Slam tour of the UK and Ireland in the autumn of 2008. At the end of the tour, McCaw made his debut for the Barbarians in an 18-12 defeat to Australia at Wembley Stadium. Knee injuries and a concussion limited his Super 14 contribution in 2009 and he also missed the June Tests against France and Italy. However, he returned to the All Blacks' ranks for the Tri-Nations opener against Australia in Auckland and steered his side to another unbeaten tour of Europe that climaxed with a demolition of France and another IRB Player of the Year award.

He was again at the helm of the All Blacks at the start of the 2010 international season and with a 2-0 series victory over Wales he surpassed Sean Fitzpatrick's record mark of 39 Test wins as New Zealand captain. McCaw's 50th Test as skipper arrived in August, with the peerless openside inspiring his side to a 20-10 victory over bitter rivals Australia in Christchurch, thus ensuring that the Bledisloe Cup with remain on New Zealand soil for another year.

In September, he led his side to another victory over the Wallabies, this time in Sydney, in what was his 52nd Test match, thus moving him past Fitzpatrick as the most capped Test skipper in All Blacks history. Fittingly, McCaw marked the occasion with a try which sparked a stirring final-quarter comeback which saw the visitors run out 23-22 winners. McCaw went on to lead his side to a fifth Tri-Nations title in six years and he rounded out an outstanding season by steering his side to only their fourth Grand Slam tour of the UK & Ireland - and the the second under McCaw's stewardship. As a result it was no surprise when McCaw completed a hat-trick of IRB awards at the year's conclusion.

A stress fracture in his right foot would trouble McCaw for much of 2011 and having undergone surgery to insert a pin at the start of the year, he was forced to manage his game time throughout the season. It was a trying year in more ways than one with the Crusaders forced to play the entire Super Rugby campaign on the road after their AMI Stadium home was damaged in a major earthquake.

The Crusaders defied the odds to reach the Super Rugby final where they were beaten by the Reds and McCaw would be on the losing side at the Suncorp Stadium again a few weeks later with the Wallabies edging out the All Blacks to claim the Tri-Nations crown.

McCaw's foot injury resurfaced during the World Cup and he was forced to sit out two early games but he was back at the heart of proceedings at the business end of the tournament. He inspired the All Blacks to a 20-6 victory over Australia in the semi-finals and followed that up by guiding his side to a nail-biting 8-7 victory over France in the tournament finale.

McCaw was edged out by team-mate Jerome Kaino for New Zealand's Player of the Year honour but claimed the Halberg Award for New Zealand's Sportsman of the Year. However, he generated more headlines by turning down the offer of a knighthood.

The All Blacks skipper racked up another accolade when he surpassed Australia's George Gregan with a record number of test wins (94) following New Zealand's 60-0 thrashing of Ireland in June 2012.

Not much more to say, really.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujlx2YddQls

Nice work George, nicely written, well-balanced with plenty of research.

A no-brainer for me, though.

Turning down a Knighthood! That's the English vote gone to Jones...

Yeah, cause being English I wouldn't automatically just vote for Jones because he actually defined the role of the modern wing-forward (oxymoron there, perhaps?).

Oh, and apart from being equally as good at 7/6, he had a sensible haircut.

And McCaw is an uppity colonial...

Well done GC

Keep up the great work. You always make an interesting read.

Glas a du wrote:Turning down a Knighthood! That's the English British vote gone to Jones...

Corrected that for you There aren't too many on here old enough to remember an English monarchy.

Michael Jones for me.

I think you might find that the knighthood would have been conferred by the Queen of New Zealand. Just by chance she also sidelines as the Queen for a few other countries

Richie. Head and shoulders above any other player

King Richie

Went for Jones too. Oddly it seems that as Ritchies awards, stats and accolades progress from the sublime to the ridiculous for a single rugby player the Jones die hards remain even more faithful. Just shows how good he was, but you did have to be there with Jones. Uniquely illustrated the sheer beauty of the game in so many ways.

Joe Stanley, speaking about Michael Jones on a recent New Zealand Television programme.

"It wasnt that he did things that other players just didnt do, it was more that he just thought to do things that no other player would ever think of doing"

Jones was a devout Christian and when asked why he tackled so ferociously he replied it's better to give than to receive. Jones was a supreme athlete whereas I think McCaw's heart is what makes him stand out. Jones had his own injuries to surmount but McCaw seems to put his body on the line game after game - often getting singled out for attention Jones never really got - and keeps coming back at the opposition. They are both legends of the game and it has been my absolute privilege to see them both. No offence Rives. i do remember seeing videos of him growing up. But you could've had Kronfeld in this list as well and he wouldn't have been out of place. It's our position!

Jones for me. But I'll leave you with the image of McCaw starting the Legolas steal just in case you thought he's not capable of doing things no other player is capable of doing: . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quvezmBUVak

And just one example of Michael Jones setting up Sir J.K.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gji6NclA9t0

And in the interests of fairness and balance, a couple of instances of Sir J.K. setting up Michael Jones.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpzbCL5Ic0o