England Vs. Scotland 16H00 2/2/13 6N build up and Match thread

[RuggerRadge2611]

First topic message reminder :

Well I'll extend a warm welcome to our English cousins in our build up and match thread.

Let’s set the standard for these threads by not WUMing and having a good banter and an insightful discussion

The summer of 2012 was a loving affair as Scots were cheering on Ennis, Farrah and Wiggins. Whilst the English were cheering on the likes of Hoy, Murray and Grainger. All that is now a distant memory as the oldest fixture in rugby is set to be a highlight of the opening weekend.

So where are we? England coming in fresh of a stunning victory against the seemingly invincible All Blacks, whereas Scotland are coming into the match after a dire run of matches that saw Robinson fall on his sword.

Last year Lancaster's England was the unknown element and tipped to be defeated by Scotland who wanted vengeance for their 2011 RWC loss. The at Murrayfield game took an unexpected turn as Scotland butchered chance after chance and charge down Charlie showed us why Parks should have stayed in retirement.

Fast forward 1 year and it's a role reversal. Scotland with a new coach and a new attitude of Play well 1st, win games 2nd. I for one have no idea what to expect from Scotland in this tournament.

England though have set their stall out in the Autumn a convincing win against NZ but the quietly forgotten loss to the underwhelming Wallabies the week before swept, discreetly under the carpet.

No doubt England will be going in confident and the Scots will be... well going in with not many expectations at all.

Scotland have named Kelly Brown as captain and it's a well-earned accolade. The Sarries blindisde has been in excellent form all year and is the best choice for the job.

England are still sweating over the Tuilagi injury and despite saying there will be no special treatment it seems he is getting every opportunity to become match fit...




England Squad



15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 6 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 29 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 11 caps)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 0 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 11 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 12 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 28 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 5 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 4 cap)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 35 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 4 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 12 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 13 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 12 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 9 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (London Irish, 42 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 22 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 4 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 15 caps)
20. James Haskell (London Wasps, 45 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 37 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 53 caps)
23. David Strettle (London Irish, 12 caps)



Scotland



15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors)
13 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby)
10 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors)
9 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) [VC]

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) [VC]
2 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors)
3 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors)
4 Richie Gray (Sale Sharks)
5 Jim Hamilton (Gloucester Rugby)
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan)
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) [C]
8 Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier)

Substitutes:
16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby)
17 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors)
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby)
19 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors)
20 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors)
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors)
23 Max Evans (Castres)

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Well Eddie, i havent really seen enough of Gloucester to know how Manu and 36 would go together, apparently Barritt runs the D, Manu doesnt seem that vocal on the pitch. Is 36 up to taking over from Barritt in that respect, or does someone else run it at Gloucester? Until that day comes, i think Barritt is the first name on the teamsheet in the backs. In lancasters eyes anyway.

Rinsure,
I agree about Youngs, i think he did very little wrong and a lot right in the autumn, but with Marler probably starting in the absence of Corbs, i think Hartley is a shoe in with his experience. Agreed, both are better than their opposite number.

Alex,
I think we have struggled for both centres since the heady days of greenwood. Playing two twelves just showes that we are still struggling for stand out international performers. Has centre become the hardest position to play these day? Players need to be as good as backrows in the breakdown and the tackle and yet still have the hands, brain and feet they always used to. tough position in the modern game.

xx

From the DT article link above

'That much is to be seen in the way that Tom Youngs has held off the renewed challenge of Hartley at hooker. Youngs has been a real force of nature for England. He began the season way down the rankings but injuries and retirements presented him with an unexpected opportunity. The older brother of scrum-half Ben took it willingly and decisively. Hartley will have to earn his stripes all over again.'

[NeilyBroon]

They don't really do much though...

Dougie Halls throwing has seemed ok for Glasgow, I haven't really seen enough of Youngs to comment on him. I would have put it down as evens had my hand been forced. They don't exactly hook in the scrums, they just exchange kisses with one another while the loosies and tighties have a wrestle. Gone are the days when they actually had to hook the ball.

Jeez did I just have a Brian Moore rant?

Aye you did, but I completely agree!

I'm sick of seeing the ball shoved straight into the second rows and the ref not even batting an eyelid. It means even if the opposing 5 have the upper hand then the ball comes out on the side that shoved it in the back of the scrum in the first place. It needs to be looked at again.

[Omelette]

Big trev.

It appears i will be proved wrong.

How does Cleary know? and how come sometimes different papers get the 'inside scoop' yet often differ? And if he knows, why cant they just announce the team today instead of tomorrow?

Anyway, i still back Englands scrum against Scotlands and think that our halfbacks/12 will move us around the park better.


Glad strettle is on the bench but would prefer him player in the LV

xx

[RuggerRadge2611]

Big trev.

It appears i will be proved wrong.

How does Cleary know? and how come sometimes different papers get the 'inside scoop' yet often differ? And if he knows, why cant they just announce the team today instead of tomorrow?

Anyway, i still back Englands scrum against Scotlands and think that our halfbacks/12 will move us around the park better.

Glad strettle is on the bench but would prefer him player in the LV

xx

Really? I don't think there is much between the front rows, 2nds and the backrow could go either way. I gave the advantage to England only for Kelly brown being out of position.

I think at Scrum time it will be evens, Lineout perhaps a wee height advantage for Scotland.

[bluestonevedder]

Big trev.

It appears i will be proved wrong.

How does Cleary know? and how come sometimes different papers get the 'inside scoop' yet often differ? And if he knows, why cant they just announce the team today instead of tomorrow?

Anyway, i still back Englands scrum against Scotlands and think that our halfbacks/12 will move us around the park better.

Glad strettle is on the bench but would prefer him player in the LV

xx

Really? I don't think there is much between the front rows, 2nds and the backrow could go either way. I gave the advantage to England only for Kelly brown being out of position.

I think at Scrum time it will be evens, Lineout perhaps a wee height advantage for Scotland.

Ai, as someone said above, Gray's presence in the lineout worries me a little. Especially if he's placed at the front. Could worry Youngs' and put off his throwing.

[beshocked]

England's defence is a huge plus for them. It's something that hasn't been talked about.

England don't leak too many points these days and I think that's a big factor.

South Africa's only try was probably one of the luckiest out there.

Australia's solitary try was a good effort but their only one.

NZ scored 3 but as they are the best side in the world it's expected. Still only 18 points in total vs England.

[Omelette]

Rugger,

I think that Cole and Youngs are just that litle bit better than Grant and Hall, especially at scrum time, and this will give England the edge. I also feel the front row options on the bench give England a bit extra compared to Scotlands front row bench options.

As for the rest of the pack i agree its fairly even. a lot depends on whether Grey brings his club form or his scotland form. I just think that Wood has the edge over Strokosch, especially with the lineout option he provides. But beattie could get the edge over morgan too with his work rate...

As for height in the lineout, i dont think the odd inch in 11 feet, or however high they are after the lift and stretch, makes much of a difference. much more about the throw, lift, timing and variety. I have the lineout down as very even, i dont think this will be a deciding factor in the game.

I cant wait though, much more opn than the bookmakers have it.

xx

[bluestonevedder]

England's defence is a huge plus for them. It's something that hasn't been talked about.

England don't leak too many points these days and I think that's a big factor.

South Africa's only try was probably one of the luckiest out there.

Australia's solitary try was a good effort but their only one.

NZ scored 3 but as they are the best side in the world it's expected. Still only 18 points in total vs England.

Beshocked, it was 21 points!

Agree regarding England's defence- it is much better these days, and Farrell's made a noticeable difference since joining the coaching team.

[lostinwales]

I do think the England back line maybe lacks pace compared to the Scottish version. Ashton is quick but there are no out and out speedsters and therefore I wonder what will happen if we leave any space for that Scottish back 3. No Ugo Monye with THAT tackle. And no Croft who probably has the speed to catch those guys too

[beshocked]

I do think the England back line maybe lacks pace compared to the Scottish version. Ashton is quick but there are no out and out speedsters and therefore I wonder what will happen if we leave any space for that Scottish back 3. No Ugo Monye with THAT tackle. And no Croft who probably has the speed to catch those guys too

I agree but I don't think we'll give their backs too much space. England's defensive line speed is excellent.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I do think the England back line maybe lacks pace compared to the Scottish version. Ashton is quick but there are no out and out speedsters and therefore I wonder what will happen if we leave any space for that Scottish back 3. No Ugo Monye with THAT tackle. And no Croft who probably has the speed to catch those guys too

I doubt this one will give Scotland many opportunities to exploitthat.Its an opener for a start, likely to be cagey from both sides. And the weather isnt likley to be great. Id expect it to be more like last years game with both sides looking to win a physical battle.

But you are right in pointing out the lack of pace in Englands back line, much like when they started with Dickson, Hodgson, Farrel, Barrit Strettle last year.


Overall though player for player and as a team England are clearly superior and should win this.

[Barney McGrew did it]

I’m a little underwhelmed with SL’s selection tbh. This is an improving and confident England playing Scotland at (a hopefully dry) HQ. Not an inexperienced rabble trying to stop the marauding Scots at a sodden Murrayfield. We should be looking to use pace as a weapon, not stifle the opposition – more of a Fra/Eng 2012 than a Sco/Eng 2012.

The back 3 need at least 2 speed merchants. Brown is a top FB but lacks the technique and pace for a test winger. Barritt is a stalwart 12 but a slowish 13 (although we’re a bit stuck at centre for the moment). Farrell just passes (averagely) or kicks - but who has the pace to chase these kicks, apart from Splash? The only encouraging selection is 12T. We need Manu, Flood, Foden (or a proper winger who can also defend) and eventually Croft back please.

[UlstermaninGlasgow]

I think a lot of people are underestimating Grant's efforts in the front row this year. He faced Afoa, Mujati, Botha and Ross this season and has bested or broke even against them all.

Doug Hall also gives a good account of himself in the scrums too. Just not as prominent in the open as his Glasgow counterpart, McArthur...

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I’m a little underwhelmed with SL’s selection tbh. This is an improving and confident England playing Scotland at (a hopefully dry) HQ. Not an inexperienced rabble trying to stop the marauding Scots at a sodden Murrayfield. We should be looking to use pace as a weapon, not stifle the opposition – more of a Fra/Eng 2012 than a Sco/Eng 2012.

The back 3 need at least 2 speed merchants. Brown is a top FB but lacks the technique and pace for a test winger. Barritt is a stalwart 12 but a slowish 13 (although we’re a bit stuck at centre for the moment). Farrell just passes (averagely) or kicks - but who has the pace to chase these kicks, apart from Splash? The only encouraging selection is 12T. We need Manu, Flood, Foden (or a proper winger who can also defend) and eventually Croft back please.

Lets face it he was nevr going to shake things up hugely following the NZ game.
Flood hasnt earnt his place back and Farrels been on fire. Even if Croft were fully fit he wouldnt be morthan a bench option with Robshaws place ringfenced and Wood being monster (not to mention Lancasters initial choice for captain)
The only place I thought we might see non injury enforced changes was the fulbacks, with Foden coming in on the wing and either Goode or Brown dropping to the bench.
Really the 6 nations opener, espec vs Scotland, isnt the place to be unleashing the speedsters and flashy backsplay Tuilagi is a loss, but one theyll haeto cope with. Farrells boot alone can win the game if the forwards are awake

[RuggerRadge2611]

Is nobody going to try and emulate what I did for the forwards for the backs...

[beshocked]

England will certainly have plenty of kicking options if both FBs and 36 start.

Scotland should expect an aerial bombardment, are the Scottish back three any good under the high ball?

England will lack pace but should still have plenty of attacking options with Goode a being playmaker,36 if he starts be more of a ball player and a kicking option to boot.

England have the options to vary play and should do that.

Barney not all of Farrell's passes are average. He does some very good ones too. Admittedly some howlers too.

[beshocked]

Is nobody going to try and emulate what I did for the forwards for the backs...

I liked your review of the forwards. why don't you do it for the backs?

[RuggerRadge2611]

I like to pretend I know what's going on outside of the Scrum Half, but I don't.

[George Carlin]

Is nobody going to try and emulate what I did for the forwards for the backs...

Sure:

9 - England are clearly superior.

10 - England are staggeringly superior.

11 - England are testicle-troublingly superior.

12 - England are inordinately superior.

13 - England are hopelessly superior.

14 - England are quite probably superior.

15 - it is clear to anyone with a modicum of taste and a proper wicker picnic basket that England are superior.

Yours,
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler

[Portnoy's Complaint]

Or more succinctly, England have about 12 international-class players, Scotland about five.

[beshocked]

George Carlin I love it!

You are indeed correct.

To be honest we don't know what the England backline is yet.

Only one who is definitely nailed on is Chris Ashton at 14.

[maestegmafia]

Gents when is the England team announced?

Today or Tomorrow?

[Captain_Sensible]

Or more succinctly, England have about 12 international-class players, Scotland about five.

R Grant
E Murray
R Gray
J Hamilton
J Beattie
K Brown
G Laidlaw
S Hogg
M Scott
T Visser

Is more than five... this is not a conclusive list either.

[beshocked]

Tomorrow.

T.Visser - jury is still out. Ditto Grant,Scott and Laidlaw.

[maestegmafia]

Tomorrow.

Cheers

T.Visser - jury is still out. Ditto Grant,Scott and Laidlaw.

Only if you don't watch the Celtic teams. If you have watched the RP12 over the last few years you would know Visser is one of the finest try poachers in the game. Big threat.

[George Carlin]

George Carlin I love it!

You are indeed correct.

To be honest we don't know what the England backline is yet.

Only one who is definitely nailed on is Chris Ashton at 14.

I just thought that it would save a bit of time.

[Pat_Mustard]

Scotland should expect an aerial bombardment, are the Scottish back three any good under the high ball?

This is my main worry about Hogg, it is not a strength of his, although once he has got hold of the ball his counter attacking is superb.

[Guest]

England are not reliant on tuilagi, says Brad Barritt:

http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/story/176239.html

[Captain_Sensible]

Tomorrow.

T.Visser - jury is still out. Ditto Grant,Scott and Laidlaw.

Two tries vs the All Blacks is a pretty big indicator of 'international class'. As is involvement in a three-game, undefeated summer tour, which the latter three can count among their achievements. None have looked outclassed or overawed so far. Grant has been one of the outstanding NH looseheads this season.

[RuggerRadge2611]

I thought the team was announced today...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9835694/Six-Nations-2013-Billy-Twelvetrees-handed-England-debut-by-Stuart-Lanacaster-in-opener-against-Scotland.html

hence why I updated my teams at the top....

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

England are not reliant on tuilagi, says Brad Barritt:

http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/story/176239.html

Well they won last year without him

[beshocked]

Pat Mustard if that's indeed the case expect the bombardment.

Capt Sensible of course you only look at the summer tour. Not the AIs.

Not outclassed overawed in the Ais?

Maestegmafia I watched Edinburgh vs Saracens x2. Doesn't exactly help Visser's case does it?

Visser can't defend. Sure he scored 2 tries vs NZ but his appalling defence neutralised this.

I said before the Edinburgh games that Ashton would outclass Visser. Guess what? he did.

[maestegmafia]

Pat Mustard if that's indeed the case expect the bombardment.

Capt Sensible of course you only look at the summer tour. Not the AIs.

Not outclassed overawed in the Ais?

Maestegmafia I watched Edinburgh vs Saracens x2. Doesn't exactly help Visser's case does it?

Visser can't defend. Sure he scored 2 tries vs NZ but his appalling defence neutralised this.

I dont think his defence is any worse than his likely opposition this weekend. Horses for courses really.

In attack though he is a weapon worth having in your armoury. As I am sure you are aware with Ashton at Sarries, poor defence vs moments of excellence is not to fine a balance. Vissers try scoring brilliance is definitely more frequent than his opposite number this weekend.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Lets not start Bickering over Visser again.

He has had 5 (6) international tests and has scored 4 (6) tries.

(baa baa's game)

He is still a n00b on the international scene and this thread was doing well without bickering about Visser!

Anyway back to my comment... is that English team in the Torygraph the official team to play Scotland or what?

[beshocked]

Pat Mustard if that's indeed the case expect the bombardment.

Capt Sensible of course you only look at the summer tour. Not the AIs.

Not outclassed overawed in the Ais?

Maestegmafia I watched Edinburgh vs Saracens x2. Doesn't exactly help Visser's case does it?

Visser can't defend. Sure he scored 2 tries vs NZ but his appalling defence neutralised this.

I dont think his defence is any worse than his likely opposition this weekend. Horses for courses really.

In attack though he is a weapon worth having in your armoury. As I am sure you are aware with Ashton at Sarries, poor defence vs moments of excellence is not to fine a balance. Vissers try scoring brilliance is definitely more frequent than his opposite number this weekend.

Shame Visser couldn't show it in their head to head in the HC. What makes you think he'll reverse his fortunes against Ashton?

True Visser is a weapon in attack but unfortunately his defence isn't good enough. Debatable where his defence is good enough for club level.

Visser is still unproven at international level yet people label him as international class?

[UlstermaninGlasgow]

I was actually quietly impressed with Visser's defense in the last two HC games. Sure he didn't put in any try saving tackles a lá Dougie Fife or Tonks, but Sarries and Munster got little down his wing, bar Ashton's cross-field. He has stepped up his game in this area since the AIs, just hasn't been given any front foot ball by his Edinburgh counterparts to attack from.

Under the high ball, I reckon the back three of Scotland will do alright. Hogg has come back into form over the last while and didn't struggle when Myler was dropping bombs onto him. Maitland is good in the air and Visser, well it's still a weakness but not as glaring as his defense.

[George Carlin]

I think all SL has done is to name the 23, Radge: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21226139

[beshocked]

Lets not start Bickering over Visser again.

He has had 5 (6) international tests and has scored 4 (6) tries.

(baa baa's game)

He is still a n00b on the international scene and this thread was doing well without bickering about Visser!

Anyway back to my comment... is that English team in the Torygraph the official team to play Scotland or what?

Ok sorry for bringing it up the whole Visser is international/world class annoys me.

The Torygraph English team might be correct but it hasn't been officially acknowledged yet.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

As this is the starter of a five-game series, I feel that nos 1, 2 and 4-15 can be more-or-less be substituted without excessive diminution of the overall side. Indeed we can withstand three or four injuries in most positions.

Tight head though is an area of concern because if Dan Cole gets crocked there is no realistic equivalent cover.

[Glas a du]

Good England backline

[beshocked]

I was actually quietly impressed with Visser's defense in the last two HC games. Sure he didn't put in any try saving tackles a lá Dougie Fife or Tonks, but Sarries and Munster got little down his wing, bar Ashton's cross-field. He has stepped up his game in this area since the AIs, just hasn't been given any front foot ball by his Edinburgh counterparts to attack from.

Under the high ball, I reckon the back three of Scotland will do alright. Hogg has come back into form over the last while and didn't struggle when Myler was dropping bombs onto him. Maitland is good in the air and Visser, well it's still a weakness but not as glaring as his defense.

Saracens got little down his wing except Ashton got two tries. Contradiction? To be fair it's not necessarily Visser's fault. Just that if you looked at current form and head to heads it's pretty obvious Ashton is the man! Plus he bagged a try vs the ABs too.

[lostinwales]

Tomorrow.

Cheers

T.Visser - jury is still out. Ditto Grant,Scott and Laidlaw.

Only if you don't watch the Celtic teams. If you have watched the RP12 over the last few years you would know Visser is one of the finest try poachers in the game. Big threat.

On that basis I wonder how you would feel about England playing Varndel?

[maestegmafia]

As this is the starter of a five-game series, I feel that nos 1, 2 and 4-15 can be more-or-less be substituted without excessive diminution of the overall side. Indeed we can withstand three or four injuries in most positions.

Tight head though is an area of concern because if Dan Cole gets crocked there is no realistic equivalent cover.

The Telegraph's "ENGLAND TEAM TO PLAY SCOTLAND AT TWICKENHAM"
A Goode (Saracens); C Ashton (Saracens), B Barritt (Saracens), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester), M Brown (Harlequins); O Farrell (Saracens), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), T Youngs (Leicester), D Cole (Leicester), J Launchbury (Wasps), G Parling (Leicester), T Wood (Northampton), C Robshaw (Harlequins), (capt), B Morgan (Gloucester).

Replacements: D Hartley (Northampton), M Vunipola (Saracens), D Wilson (Bath), C Lawes (Northampton), J Haskell (Wasps), D Care (Harlequins), T Flood (Leicester), D Strettle (Saracens)

Wilson is TH cover?

[beshocked]

As this is the starter of a five-game series, I feel that nos 1, 2 and 4-15 can be more-or-less be substituted without excessive diminution of the overall side. Indeed we can withstand three or four injuries in most positions.

Tight head though is an area of concern because if Dan Cole gets crocked there is no realistic equivalent cover.

The Telegraph's "ENGLAND TEAM TO PLAY SCOTLAND AT TWICKENHAM"
A Goode (Saracens); C Ashton (Saracens), B Barritt (Saracens), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester), M Brown (Harlequins); O Farrell (Saracens), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), T Youngs (Leicester), D Cole (Leicester), J Launchbury (Wasps), G Parling (Leicester), T Wood (Northampton), C Robshaw (Harlequins), (capt), B Morgan (Gloucester).

Replacements: D Hartley (Northampton), M Vunipola (Saracens), D Wilson (Bath), C Lawes (Northampton), J Haskell (Wasps), D Care (Harlequins), T Flood (Leicester), D Strettle (Saracens)

Wilson is TH cover?

Yes Wilson is TH cover. Btw that isn't official yet but it's what is expected.

Not sure why Strettle is there TBH.

Backline is quite odd - 2 12s, 2 15s.

[Captain_Sensible]

Not outclassed overawed in the Ais?

Nope. Show me a time where grant was outclassed by a NZ, South African or Tongan tighthead. Matt Scott set up a try against NZ, and Laidlaw's counter-rucking set up another.

The failings in the AIs were more about the whole team, not those specific individuals. They all acquitted themselves well individually.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but if you can't see that Ryan Grant, for example, is an international class rugby player, you don't know anything about rugby.

[maestegmafia]

Tomorrow.

Cheers

T.Visser - jury is still out. Ditto Grant,Scott and Laidlaw.

Only if you don't watch the Celtic teams. If you have watched the RP12 over the last few years you would know Visser is one of the finest try poachers in the game. Big threat.

On that basis I wonder how you would feel about England playing Varndel?

I see your point! Ashton is hardly a noted defender, often chastised for it some glaringly poor work on the back foot, so its not as though England aren't taking a defensive vs attacking risk there themselves.

Scotland have a limited pool, England have '40,000 to choose from'. But I would hope your defensive masterminds are focusing on the aspect of containing Scotland's back three should they get some half chances, these lads can score tries.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Not outclassed overawed in the Ais?

Nope. Show me a time where grant was outclassed by a NZ, South African or Tongan tighthead. Matt Scott set up a try against NZ, and Laidlaw's counter-rucking set up another.

The failings in the AIs were more about the whole team, not those specific individuals. They all acquitted themselves well individually.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but if you can't see that Ryan Grant, for example, is an international class rugby player, you don't know anything about rugby.

I'm one of Grants biggest fans, he has battled very well against some top class opposition this year for Glasgow and Scotland, but with only 5 caps it's maybe a bit early to call him international class.

Compae him to Healy for example. Healy is international class, Grant is well on the way but needs more exposure at that level to be labled international class IMO.

[RDW]

I said before the Edinburgh games that Ashton would outclass Visser. Guess what? he did.

You really keep going on about this don't you - think that's the 3rd time this thread you've said it!

Again in the first game Visser took a big knock earlier on and went off after 20 minutes, the 2nd game was in a snow storm and the Edinburgh pack were butchered - hardly valid for comparison!

[Captain_Sensible]

Not outclassed overawed in the Ais?

Nope. Show me a time where grant was outclassed by a NZ, South African or Tongan tighthead. Matt Scott set up a try against NZ, and Laidlaw's counter-rucking set up another.

The failings in the AIs were more about the whole team, not those specific individuals. They all acquitted themselves well individually.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but if you can't see that Ryan Grant, for example, is an international class rugby player, you don't know anything about rugby.

I'm one of Grants biggest fans, he has battled very well against some top class opposition this year for Glasgow and Scotland, but with only 5 caps it's maybe a bit early to call him international class.

Compae him to Healy for example. Healy is international class, Grant is well on the way but needs more exposure at that level to be labled international class IMO.

I'm not saying Grant would waltz into any international side in the world. What I am saying is that he's established himself at international level, and has looked the business there. 5 caps and he's a Scottish vice captain! What other definition of 'international class' can there be?

[funnyExiledScot]

I see England winning this one because:

(a) superior defence

(b) superior lineout

(c) Farrell's boot

I don't think that this will be a try-fest, as frankly neither side are set up to be particularly creative. I think that the English backline will suffocate Scotland in defence, and England's basics will be superior generally.

I predict a 10-15 points margin.

If Scotland are to win this game, we need to work hard to get out big ball carriers, Gray, Beattie and Lamont over the advantage line sufficiently sharply to guarantee quick ball, and out forwards need to be willing to take risks in the offload. With quick ball I can see Jackson and Scott being able to bring our back three into the game, and in attack we have three very capable players in the back three. England will know this and will not kick much ball to them (or if they do the chase will be excellent), so we have to work out ways of bringing them into the game as much as possible.

The moment we start hoofing the ball away is the moment this game is done. Laidlaw, Jackson and Hogg will not win a contest of aerial ping pong, and I think Parling, Launchbury, Robshaw and Wood will make our lineouts a misery, so keeping possession and building phases is the key for me. If we must kick, then for goodness' sake find touch, and have the chase well organised.

There's no question we can compete against this England side. I don't see us getting munched in the scrum, I don't see us getting bossed at the breakdown and I don't see that England backline putting 30 points past us. In Ford and Denton we have two players who could come on and make a big difference in the second half, and Pyrgos has proven against South Africa that he can come on an later the tempo for us.

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