Scotland Post Match thread

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First topic message reminder :

Positives:
We have a back-three that can score from anywhere
Matt Scott showed he's an international class centre (still question marks over his defence)
Laidlaw showed bits of class and will improve throughout the competition
Beattie's back
Ford was very good when he came on
We appear to be more patient in the opposition 22

Negatives:
Jackson wasn't very good
Lamont isn't a 13
Inconsistent scrummaging
Our defence stands off too much meaning teams like England and New Zealand and England make ground with apparent ease

For next week:
Need to be more aggressive
Maybe Cairns or Grove should be promoted
I'd stay with the same team except I'd start Denton, Ford, Weir and Grove

The question is, was it better to see Scotland weaker in defence but have a far greater attacking threat or better to see Scotland strong defensively but blunt in attack?

[funnyExiledScot]

However, a view needs to be reached with him. He's 24 now and we need to understand if he's worth persevering with. Sexton is only 2 years older but has won three Heineken Cups. That's not a facetious comment - it's unfortunately a marker set by another player and one to which we should at least attempt to aspire (unrealistic though that maybe and special as Sexton undoubtedly is).

Surely Jackson is worth persevering with so long as he's the best available player we have? Players at other countries shouldn't factor into it. We don't have anyone close to Sexton, so he isn't a helpful yardstick.

Jackson - currently the form 10 in Scotland
Weir - poor this season and 2nd to Jackson at Glasgow
Laidlaw - moved to 9 (Edinburgh don't have another Scots 10 in contention)
Heathcote - reserve 10 at Bath, gets the odd game and has had generally mixed reviews, about to be replaced one assumes by George Ford
Ross - probably seen as too old now, although his performances this season justify him being included in the mix

I do think Heathcote ought to be ahead of Weir in the pecking order, but it's hard to say that Jackson doesn't deserve a chance, certainly more than he had in the England game.

[RDW]

can you put the A game link up?

I'm too lazy to look...

[funnyExiledScot]

I certainly feel one A game in the season isn't enough for player development/ providing selection alternatives. Don't know why we haven't got a game against the Wolfhounds but as we haven't I would have liked the SRU to try some alternative opposition who might have welcomed a game/s; Georgia, Romania, Russia?

Agree, although I suspect Edinburgh and Glasgow might have something to say about it as they'll want their A players back to prepare for the Rabo fixtures in a couple of weeks time.

[MacKnocked-on]

can you put the A game link up?

I'm too lazy to look...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e9ajEpTPW0

[RDW]

Ta!

[IanBru]

I have seriously mixed feelings about this squad.

Clearly we weren't good enough on Saturday, and to change so little resembles, at first glance, the very worst of the Robinson-era stubborn selection policy. I'm reminded of the Einstein quote about doing the same thing and expecting a different result. With that in mind, I'd have brought in Kellock and Ford for their combativeness and carrying ability respectively. So, one out of two isn't bad.

However, as has been said before, the England side we faced on Saturday was probably the best I have seen since 2003. They were fearless, hungry, efficient and very effective. They weren't complex, they just had a plan and executed it very well. Not to excuse the team, but I don't think that Saturday was a fair opportunity to gauge where we are.

With this in mind, I would argue for retaining a majority of the squad, including Jackson. Behind a retreating scrum, and in the face of ridiculous English line speed, Jackson was always going to be exposed the most. He is still our most able and experienced stand off. Weir, for all his potential, simply isn’t playing well enough to be considered.

Lamont deserves a second chance at 13 for the reasons given above. Not to say that Grove is worse, simply that Lamont is the incumbent, and we need a reason to remove him, rather than just because it would feel good.

If Hall isn't fit, he isn't fit. I'm tired of hedging our bets on the off chance that a good club player is fit. MacArthur has the form and undoubted potential to earn his place on the bench on merit, and stringing him along won't help him prepare for Saturday if he is needed.

One final point should be made about team management - on Monday, ten members of the squad were serving coffee in St Andrews Square. That’s right, serving coffee. Five days before a test match. Coffee. If this was the influence of the management, or some SRU advertising weenie, they desperately need assessment for brain trauma.

[muzzer_mc]

I certainly feel one A game in the season isn't enough for player development/ providing selection alternatives. Don't know why we haven't got a game against the Wolfhounds but as we haven't I would have liked the SRU to try some alternative opposition who might have welcomed a game/s; Georgia, Romania, Russia?

Agree, although I suspect Edinburgh and Glasgow might have something to say about it as they'll want their A players back to prepare for the Rabo fixtures in a couple of weeks time.

That and I remember reading in the scotsman that the SRU were turned down by other nations when they tried to arrange more 'A' games.

[RDW]

To be fair Italy have a very good line speed as well - noticed that against France. They were right up in their faces (often back feet offside), so it is something we need to learn from last week - how to deal with a blitz defence.

[Scot Abroad]

Sweeping changes are not the answer. The problem with Robbo was that he wouldn't do anything for the full 5 games unless injury forced his hand. Italy will pose a very different threat than England and we shouldn't underestimate them. I’m glad to see Harley given a chance. He’ll do what Strokosch was meant to do and hit the rucks. I’m sure Denton thought that he’d be starting so I’m hoping he’s angry when he comes off the bench. I’d give Hamilton this game to prove that he’s more than just a weight in the scrum. I would have also brought Heathcote onto the bench. He held his own with a retreating scrum for the A team so given a little more time I’d like to see what he can do. Seymour seems to have vanished from the squad altogether.

[tigertattie]

I'd advocate having Harley at 7 and putting Brown back to 6 where he belongs! (I know it means playing Harley out of position but he has been playing 7 for the weege while Barclay is laid up)

I'd also have to say Heathcote needs to have a place on the bench.

And we all agree that Grove should be in at 13

After the 6n's rather than getting a new head coach, can the scotland team not just be picked by election via us, the all knowing scottish fans?

[funnyExiledScot]

I certainly feel one A game in the season isn't enough for player development/ providing selection alternatives. Don't know why we haven't got a game against the Wolfhounds but as we haven't I would have liked the SRU to try some alternative opposition who might have welcomed a game/s; Georgia, Romania, Russia?

Agree, although I suspect Edinburgh and Glasgow might have something to say about it as they'll want their A players back to prepare for the Rabo fixtures in a couple of weeks time.

That and I remember reading in the scotsman that the SRU were turned down by other nations when they tried to arrange more 'A' games.

Probably because our A side keeps winning......

It doesn't help that the Welsh are too lazy to form an "A" side.

[George Carlin]

However, a view needs to be reached with him. He's 24 now and we need to understand if he's worth persevering with. Sexton is only 2 years older but has won three Heineken Cups. That's not a facetious comment - it's unfortunately a marker set by another player and one to which we should at least attempt to aspire (unrealistic though that maybe and special as Sexton undoubtedly is).

Surely Jackson is worth persevering with so long as he's the best available player we have? Players at other countries shouldn't factor into it. We don't have anyone close to Sexton, so he isn't a helpful yardstick.

Jackson - currently the form 10 in Scotland
Weir - poor this season and 2nd to Jackson at Glasgow
Laidlaw - moved to 9 (Edinburgh don't have another Scots 10 in contention)
Heathcote - reserve 10 at Bath, gets the odd game and has had generally mixed reviews, about to be replaced one assumes by George Ford
Ross - probably seen as too old now, although his performances this season justify him being included in the mix

I do think Heathcote ought to be ahead of Weir in the pecking order, but it's hard to say that Jackson doesn't deserve a chance, certainly more than he had in the England game.

Nobody would argue that you shouldn't persevere with the best player that you have, FES.

The question, of course, is how can you be confident that you are playing the individual who is the best without allowing a reasonable opportunity to others to show what they can do?

Let me couch your description of Heathcote in another way. At 20 years old, he has played 23 times for a competitive club in the English Premiership and is being kept out of a starting slot by a man who kicked the winning penalty for the All Blacks in the last World Cup final.

I don't think that George Ford is any less of a player because Flood stops him starting every game for the Tigers. Heathcote probably needs more game time in the top club flight, to be sure, but he doesn't play dramatically fewer games than Jackson at the moment.

At 20, my feeling that he stands every chance of representing a higher quality product than Jackson in the long term. Scott Johnson needs wins to get the team's morale up so I don't blame him for sticking with Jackson for the moment. However, playing Jackson needs to be balanced with an assessment of how much he is ever likely to improve from his current 100%. I am not suggesting that we do have anyone close to Sexton but the fact remains that with some players, we cannot state with any confidence exactly what we do have and we won't until we give them a chance.

Ferrie in the Herald is interesting today - reading between the lines, SJ has basically said that Rhubarb has this game to deliver or he will be replaced, the same going for Hamilton.

I also note that Hall is definitely out, so it will be Ford with MacArthur on the bench.

[George Carlin]

Risky has correctly dragged proceedings to a new thread, where we will presumably try again for the glory of the Thousand Post Thread:
https://www.606v2.com/t40342-scotland-vs-italy-time-to-get-serious-build-up-thread

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