Ireland post Mortem/new coach/new team thread

[Standulstermen]

First topic message reminder :

May as well let the match thread die and have all our ramblings in one place.

Is kidney gone?
Who will be the new coach?
Will BOD, D'arcy, ROG retire?
Changes for France?


All in here guys.

My own selection for France would be

Kilcoyne (Healy if allowed)
Best
Ross
Ryan
Henderson (would be tempted by him at 6 but our tight 5 needs ball carriers)
POM
SOB
Heaslip
Murray
Jackson
Gilroy
Marshall
BOD
?
Kearney

Cronin, court, fitz, DOC, O'Donnell, Reddan, madigan, ?

Can't decide on who spdeserves the wing/outside back bench slot. Best, Kearney need good games.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

That's just to up his price tag.

It is typical coaching bluster I agree. No one is ever interested in any job and then they take it. That said O'Shea has a historically bad relationship with the IRFU so it wouldn't surprise me if he just wasn't interested.

[Glas a du]

I have jobs like that. I would hate it, but bang in such a rediculous quote that if I get it I don't actually mind...

[Sin é]

O'Mahony is having a pretty average season in green so far. I'm not castigating him, it's just that he's become the kind of player you shrug your shoulders about if he can't play not fret over his absence. He should play 7 if he plays. He's not quite physical enough for 6 or 8 at this level. Our backrow lacking physicality is a problem and it's because POM and Heaslip are relative lightweights. Used correctly he could be good. Getting stuck into the breakdown is his thing.

Couldn't hurt to give Henderson a run. But definitely, definitely as a flanker at this point. Thats where he'll be until he fills out. The baby-faced giant hasn't finished growing. And he's already 18 stone. He'll spend a couple of seasons at blindside and then move to lock.

Stand; most bizarre thing with Hook is Kilcoyne vs Court. Said the game proved Kilcoyne should be starting ahead of TC even though what little scrum parity we had evaporated when Kilcoyne came on

And then as you say castigating Gilroy for aimless kicking when Kearney and Murray were the more guilty. Sometimes Hooks columns are just weird.

O'Mahony is the mobile backrower (i.e., back to collect kicks, can make breaks up the wing - and able to get himself out there to get them etc).

Court contributes nothing around the pitch and his scrummaging is on a par with Kilcoynes.

[fa0019]

Perfect time for him to take the job on though.

2 years from a RWC. Players of quality in many positions although replacing BOD will be a challenge.

His stock is also very high in the UK given his tenure with Harlequins that if it went pear shaped I think he would still be very employable in club rugby once his time with Ireland is over.

Ireland also have a very good route in the RWC. A dogfight with FRA to win their group.... the winner will get a QF vs. Argentina so they have a realistic chance of getting to the SF for the first time and wouldn't face NZ until the final... the only team you would say they have zero chance of beating.

Would be very difficult to turn down.

[Sin é]

You're all forgetting the trick. The trick is that if you score enough tries you don't need a goal kicker.

You mean like the way it panned out with Earls in the centre last 6Ns and in the autumn?

[JmD]

O'Mahony is having a pretty average season in green so far. I'm not castigating him, it's just that he's become the kind of player you shrug your shoulders about if he can't play not fret over his absence. He should play 7 if he plays. He's not quite physical enough for 6 or 8 at this level. Our backrow lacking physicality is a problem and it's because POM and Heaslip are relative lightweights. Used correctly he could be good. Getting stuck into the breakdown is his thing.

Couldn't hurt to give Henderson a run. But definitely, definitely as a flanker at this point. Thats where he'll be until he fills out. The baby-faced giant hasn't finished growing. And he's already 18 stone. He'll spend a couple of seasons at blindside and then move to lock.

Stand; most bizarre thing with Hook is Kilcoyne vs Court. Said the game proved Kilcoyne should be starting ahead of TC even though what little scrum parity we had evaporated when Kilcoyne came on

And then as you say castigating Gilroy for aimless kicking when Kearney and Murray were the more guilty. Sometimes Hooks columns are just weird.

O'Mahony is the mobile backrower (i.e., back to collect kicks, can make breaks up the wing - and able to get himself out there to get them etc).

Court contributes nothing around the pitch and his scrummaging is on a par with Kilcoynes.

It happened more than once against Wales that had there been a back out wide we could have made a break, but O'Mahony was standing there and ran into contact. He also got burned by Faletau in the same position. I don't mind seeing one of the backrow hanging back for kicks every now and again, a role which was taken up by POM after Heaslip's disastrous performance versus England, but POM just goes missing for too long. In the first two matches when he wasn't performing this role Chris Henry had more tackles coming off the bench than POM had in 3 times as many minutes on the pitch.

[Guest]

You're all forgetting the trick. The trick is that if you score enough tries you don't need a goal kicker.

You mean like the way it panned out with Earls in the centre last 6Ns and in the autumn?

Earls just isn't a centre, Sin. He's a wing, and a wing who could do with changing his game. Having said that, Ireland really need to sort out a 13, and quick. Someone who can pass a ball would be good.
On PJ. It wasn't his fault that Kidney didn't have another kicker on the field. He could have, and should have.

[UlstermaninGlasgow]

O'Mahony is having a pretty average season in green so far. I'm not castigating him, it's just that he's become the kind of player you shrug your shoulders about if he can't play not fret over his absence. He should play 7 if he plays. He's not quite physical enough for 6 or 8 at this level. Our backrow lacking physicality is a problem and it's because POM and Heaslip are relative lightweights. Used correctly he could be good. Getting stuck into the breakdown is his thing.

Couldn't hurt to give Henderson a run. But definitely, definitely as a flanker at this point. Thats where he'll be until he fills out. The baby-faced giant hasn't finished growing. And he's already 18 stone. He'll spend a couple of seasons at blindside and then move to lock.

Stand; most bizarre thing with Hook is Kilcoyne vs Court. Said the game proved Kilcoyne should be starting ahead of TC even though what little scrum parity we had evaporated when Kilcoyne came on

And then as you say castigating Gilroy for aimless kicking when Kearney and Murray were the more guilty. Sometimes Hooks columns are just weird.

O'Mahony is the mobile backrower (i.e., back to collect kicks, can make breaks up the wing - and able to get himself out there to get them etc).

Court contributes nothing around the pitch and his scrummaging is on a par with Kilcoynes.

Sorry Sin you lost me when you said "makes breaks up the wing"... Shouldn't he be in the front line making the hard yards and letting, oh I don't know, wingers make the breaks up the wings?????

Jesus man, we get shafted for not supporting our linebreaks in midfield and you want our flankers to be on the blooming wing? Also Jamie is pretty adept at taking catches and it's what a 8 should do, do we really need another flanker dropping into the backs??


A blindside should make first up tackles, be a menace in the ruck area and most of all, help out his bloody prop...

And onto the subject of props. Court did well, he's not the most mobile but Kilcoyne went through his own @rse on more than one occasion when he came on, and I don't recall him making much of a difference in the loose. TC was dealing with Cross fairly well and at least giving Ross a chance versus Grant, who had a phenomenal game. Whereas once Kilcoyne came on both our props were being shoved through their @rses and so we went even further back in the scrum.

[GunsGerms]

You're all forgetting the trick. The trick is that if you score enough tries you don't need a goal kicker.

You mean like the way it panned out with Earls in the centre last 6Ns and in the autumn?

Earls just isn't a centre, Sin. He's a wing, and a wing who could do with changing his game. Having said that, Ireland really need to sort out a 13, and quick. Someone who can pass a ball would be good.
On PJ. It wasn't his fault that Kidney didn't have another kicker on the field. He could have, and should have.

I think Earls could be a good centre if he would just link up a bit better. He makes great breaks has a great eye for a gap and is good a finding space however, he needs to learn to bring his team mates into play.

Just look at how Conrad Smith does it he will often slow up after he has made a break to feed his support players. Physically he isnt much different to Earls, they are both very fit with plenty of pace however, Smith is just much smarter about how he plays the game.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Guns, Earls hasn't got it and never will at centre. Best just concentrating on being a top class winger rather than at best a relatively decent centre

[GunsGerms]

Guns, Earls hasn't got it and never will at centre. Best just concentrating on being a top class winger rather than at best a relatively decent centre

I have no doubt a good coach could have/could make him into an excellent centre.

It was once said of Ma'a Nonu that he didnt have a good enough pass to be a first class centre yet look at him now.

Earls has never really worked with a great backs coach. The two managers he has had are both teachers FFS, McGahan and Kidney and Rob Penney was a forward.

Love to see what a proper backs coach could do with him.

[Guest]

You're all forgetting the trick. The trick is that if you score enough tries you don't need a goal kicker.

You mean like the way it panned out with Earls in the centre last 6Ns and in the autumn?

Earls just isn't a centre, Sin. He's a wing, and a wing who could do with changing his game. Having said that, Ireland really need to sort out a 13, and quick. Someone who can pass a ball would be good.
On PJ. It wasn't his fault that Kidney didn't have another kicker on the field. He could have, and should have.

I think Earls could be a good centre if he would just link up a bit better. He makes great breaks has a great eye for a gap and is good a finding space however, he needs to learn to bring his team mates into play.

Just look at how Conrad Smith does it he will often slow up after he has made a break to feed his support players. Physically he isnt much different to Earls, they are both very fit with plenty of pace however, Smith is just much smarter about how he plays the game.

It would be help if he was a bit bigger, but I agree with you Guns. The problem is he doesn't feed his support, and sometimes seems completely unaware of who is with him. If it was unusual for him it wouldn't be an issue, but unfortunately it is part of his game, it's ingrained, and he's had plenty of time to put it right.
He spoke of confidence issue's recently, and maybe this is at the root of his bad decision making. He tries to hard to prove himself, and goes for the spectacular. Maybe. I wouldn't gripe if he could pull it off though

[Sin é]

O'Mahony is having a pretty average season in green so far. I'm not castigating him, it's just that he's become the kind of player you shrug your shoulders about if he can't play not fret over his absence. He should play 7 if he plays. He's not quite physical enough for 6 or 8 at this level. Our backrow lacking physicality is a problem and it's because POM and Heaslip are relative lightweights. Used correctly he could be good. Getting stuck into the breakdown is his thing.

Couldn't hurt to give Henderson a run. But definitely, definitely as a flanker at this point. Thats where he'll be until he fills out. The baby-faced giant hasn't finished growing. And he's already 18 stone. He'll spend a couple of seasons at blindside and then move to lock.

Stand; most bizarre thing with Hook is Kilcoyne vs Court. Said the game proved Kilcoyne should be starting ahead of TC even though what little scrum parity we had evaporated when Kilcoyne came on

And then as you say castigating Gilroy for aimless kicking when Kearney and Murray were the more guilty. Sometimes Hooks columns are just weird.

O'Mahony is the mobile backrower (i.e., back to collect kicks, can make breaks up the wing - and able to get himself out there to get them etc).

Court contributes nothing around the pitch and his scrummaging is on a par with Kilcoynes.

It happened more than once against Wales that had there been a back out wide we could have made a break, but O'Mahony was standing there and ran into contact. He also got burned by Faletau in the same position. I don't mind seeing one of the backrow hanging back for kicks every now and again, a role which was taken up by POM after Heaslip's disastrous performance versus England, but POM just goes missing for too long. In the first two matches when he wasn't performing this role Chris Henry had more tackles coming off the bench than POM had in 3 times as many minutes on the pitch.

Ah, the old tackles quote to beat POM up with. What people who use this quote fail to do is mention the number of tackles the rest of the backrowers made and never question why Ireland had to do so much defending in the 2nd half of the game against Wales when POM was off the pitch. As for getting burned by Faletau - that was just before he was taken off because he must have been out of it after getting a knock to the head (if they don't pass the test they have to be taken off).

Just for the record then:

Scotland: Tackles: POM 3/0 (70 mins); SOB: 5/1; Heislip: 5/0 Henderson (sub - 9 mins): 0/0.
England: Tackles: POM 2/0; SOB: 5/1 (63 mins); Heaslip: 7/0. Henry 0/0. 15 min..
Wales: POM 8/1 (51 mins); SOB 18/2. Heislip: 18/3. Henry 11/0 (29 mins).
Argentina: POM 9/1 (72 mins). Henry: 7/0. Heaslip 9/0.
South Africa: POM 6/1 (69 mins). Henry 6/0. Heaslip 2/0.

I've included his games in the Autumn where his tackling compares more than favourably to the rest of the backrowers.

[Sin é]

Guns, Earls hasn't got it and never will at centre. Best just concentrating on being a top class winger rather than at best a relatively decent centre

He was a winger at the weekend.

[GunsGerms]

Guns, Earls hasn't got it and never will at centre. Best just concentrating on being a top class winger rather than at best a relatively decent centre

He was a winger at the weekend.

We will need him to play 13 next year though. I am 100% confident he could do a good job there. He will never be as good as Drico but who cares if he can continue to make breaks and starts to link up a bit better.

You cant improve at centre if you dont get to play there.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Earls proved at the weekend he doesn't have the vision and awareness required to play centre. At the top level he just doesn't have the tools. He could be taught to pass but he will never learn when he should and shouldn't pass. He had a poor summer and average autumn when those around him excelled. He's not a centre and the vast majority of fans know it. Even his fans and the pro-Munster meedja acknowledged it before the Scotland match, before his butchery of golden opportunities. A proper coach would tell him to gurn up and stay on the wing where he is dangerous.

[Sin é]

You're all forgetting the trick. The trick is that if you score enough tries you don't need a goal kicker.

You mean like the way it panned out with Earls in the centre last 6Ns and in the autumn?

Earls just isn't a centre, Sin. He's a wing, and a wing who could do with changing his game. Having said that, Ireland really need to sort out a 13, and quick. Someone who can pass a ball would be good.
On PJ. It wasn't his fault that Kidney didn't have another kicker on the field. He could have, and should have.

I think Earls could be a good centre if he would just link up a bit better. He makes great breaks has a great eye for a gap and is good a finding space however, he needs to learn to bring his team mates into play.

Just look at how Conrad Smith does it he will often slow up after he has made a break to feed his support players. Physically he isnt much different to Earls, they are both very fit with plenty of pace however, Smith is just much smarter about how he plays the game.

Smith would not have Earls' pace. I posted this link last week - worth reading - he does have great stamina and improves during a game.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7930987/Conrad-Smith-needs-an-heir-at-centre

Everyone asks me [Smith] what the skill set is for a centre and the thing is I don't think there is one specific skill.

"I've always found it's a position where you have to really adjust to the second five-eighth you are playing with and the rest of the backline really, the wings, the fullback. It's only when you are more experienced that you can do that. You sort of have to understand what the second five-eighth does.

"And it is an understanding.

"People talk a lot about communication in rugby but you often don't have time to call things. It's instinctive and with experience those instincts become something can really trust."

Edit: article goes on to say that most of the great kiwi centre didn't make it until they were in their late 20s.

Here is another article with comments from Wayne Smith on Conrad.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/7976213/Conrad-Smith-is-one-of-the-great-players

[Sin é]

Earls proved at the weekend he doesn't have the vision and awareness required to play centre. At the top level he just doesn't have the tools. He could be taught to pass but he will never learn when he should and shouldn't pass. He had a poor summer and average autumn when those around him excelled. He's not a centre and the vast majority of fans know it. Even his fans and the pro-Munster meedja acknowledged it before the Scotland match, before his butchery of golden opportunities. A proper coach would tell him to gurn up and stay on the wing where he is dangerous.

I wonder would you have written off Umaga, Nonu & a few other when they had just gone 25 when they actually had only played 4 games in a row in the centre (and at least made a few line breaks)

ALL BLACKS CENTRES, PAST AND PRESENT

Conrad Smith 2004-present Tests: 63 Debut: v Italy, 2004, age 23 Established at centre: 2008 season, age 27 Age: 31

Tana Umaga 1997-2005 Tests: 74 Debut: v Fiji, 1997, age 24 (on the left wing) Established at centre: 2001, age 28 Last test: v Scotland, age 32

Alama Ieremia 1994-2000 Tests: 30 Debut: v South Africa, 1994, age 23 (at second five-eighth) Established at centre: 1999, age 28 Last test: v South Africa, age 29

Frank Bunce 1992-1997 Tests: 55 Debut: v World XV, 1992, age 30 (at second five-eighth) Established at centre: 1992, age 30 Last test: v England, age 35 Joe Stanley 1986-1990 Tests: 27 Debut: v France, 1986, age 29 Established at centre: 1986, age 29 Last test: v Scotland, age 33

FUTURE PROSPECTS Ben Smith Tests: 9 Age: 26 Strengths: Elusive runner, smart defender, good all round skills and pace Weaknesses: Has played most of his rugby at wing or fullback

Tamati Ellison Tests: 3 Age: 29 Strengths: Experience, footwork, fend, good defender Weaknesses: Has never specialised in one position

Alapati Leiua Tests: 0 Age: 24 Strengths: Hard runner, anticipation, defensively very strong in contact Weaknesses: Behind Conrad Smith at Hurricanes where he's mainly used at wing

Robbie Fruean Tests: 0 Age: 24 Strengths: Size, explosiveness and pace to break the line Weaknesses: Can go missing during big matches

[GunsGerms]

Thats because to be a great centre takes a lot of practice unless you are a natural like Drico.

Drico's emergance as a first class centre will not be seen again for a long time. Played OH in school, didnt standout like some contemporaries like Darce, 0 game time for Leinster, drafted into the Ireland team, exploded onto the scene with 3 tries v France in his second international or something. Natural.

I think anyone other that Drico should be given a proper run of games to prove themselves.

[SecretFly]

Smith controls his pace to suit the climate??................. yep...that's what we've been saying. Sense the climate, sense who might be coming behind you and act accordingly? It's not a 100 race to the line, that was never the race Earls was engaged in, his angle and opposition positioning was all wrong for that. His race was brains...modifying the pace of the break to suit the support arriving.

Look, we're just talking theory now and every player makes mistakes. Like I said earlier, Fitz does it next time (running away from support and into trouble) I'll be on his case. He won't be listening, he won't care what Fly says, Earls surely don't care what Fly says...but Fly says it anyway, coz discussion ain't a bad thing in a free world.

[Gibson]

Tommy Bowe needs to be brought in at 13. We have enough feicin wingers amd more coming through. May need to look at Fitz in the Centre also. Very strong in the tackle and we know how good he is on his feet.

Marshall should be given every chance to nail down the 12 spot now. He is the real deal imo. And it takes time to really gel a centre partenership. Look at BOD & Darcy.

So we need to be pätient here and not just throw players at it. We need to look at the best combo. Not look at the positions in isolation. Earls should be kept well away from it imo. NOT a centre. Not even sure he will survive a new coach. Even on the wing.

[SecretFly]

Kearney for Centre..and he should be in training for it at Leinster.

Who? NO!! Not him...his brother

[Standulstermen]

On the POM issue. I dont think he has been outstanding and to be honest i would have henderson in at 6 or at lock but i think there is a complete lack of balance to our backrow. Or rather a complete hash up between responsibilities. It was never the perfect balance even when we had Wally, Fez and Heaslip but since then it has just got worse.

When you consider the top 6's knocking about in the last few years Ferris (circa 09/10 for ireland), lydiate, kaino, Juan smith and even going back to Richard Hill, the primary function of said position was to demolish the opposition. To boss the contact and be an enforcer of sorts. We seem to have given up on that. POM is not big enough to perform that role.

What we have at the present is SOB doing that donkey work as a 7 and also trying to exact turnovers and be our Pocock style ball winner. Offensively he is being used to take the ball at first receiver and get one or two yards over the gainline. Only once did we see him cut a line off Jackson (in the first ten minutes) when he took 3 defenders over the gainline and freed his hands but there was no support. we didnt try it again iirc.

If anything we should be using POM closer in as he has the ability to carry and uses his leg drive to good effect with SOB hanging slightly further out. Heaslip as well isnt making the same yards (sunday excepted) that a traditional 8 should and is involved in too many rucks to make an impact. Is this down to a lack of mobility in the tight 5? i believe so and this is why a big part of me wants to see Henderson in the 2nd row. Looking at England and their mobility between Cole, Hartley (puke), Parling, launchbury is impressive.

On a slight tangent as well the amount of players we commit to 'bridging' at the base of a ruck is ludicrous. we can engineer a quick clearout and have 3/4 forwards then bridge over the ball one by one before Murray arrives and uses it. Why cant these forwards take the ball on or else give it themselves. Im not suggesting they should be throwing 20m passes on a sixpence but surely getting it out and away from the breakdown quickly before the defence resets isnt out of the question.

[GunsGerms]

Tommy Bowe needs to be brought in at 13. We have enough feicin wingers amd more coming through. May need to look at Fitz in the Centre also. Very strong in the tackle and we know how good he is on his feet.

Marshall should be given every chance to nail down the 12 spot now. He is the real deal imo. And it takes time to really gel a centre partenership. Look at BOD & Darcy.

So we need to be pätient here and not just throw players at it. We need to look at the best combo. Not look at the positions in isolation. Earls should be kept well away from it imo. NOT a centre. Not even sure he will survive a new coach. Even on the wing.

Bowe isnt a bad shout. Very smart player, very aware of support players, great link man, excellent technique. Not sure he would make as many breaks as Earls, though what he lacks in pace he would probably make up in picking great lines. Definitely worth considering.

Fitz shouldnt even be in the squad. He is a poor mans Earls. Makes all the errors Earls makes and more yet cant score tries for love nor money. Probably better defender though, marginally. I'd probably play SO'B at centre before Fitz.

[SecretFly]

On a slight tangent as well the amount of players we commit to 'bridging' at the base of a ruck is ludicrous. we can engineer a quick clearout and have 3/4 forwards then bridge over the ball one by one before Murray arrives and uses it. Why cant these forwards take the ball on or else give it themselves. Im not suggesting they should be throwing 20m passes on a sixpence but surely getting it out and away from the breakdown quickly before the defence resets isnt out of the question.

Your query has been passed through channels to the coaching staff, where it naturally and inevitably belongs. You might not of course get a reply but thankyou for noting that coaches have a duty to perform.

[RubyGuby]

I called Bowe for 13 last year


Re: My Questions About Ireland

by RubyGuby on Thu 14 Jun 2012 - 12:46
.



Murray seems to be going backwards rather than growing and his lack of urgency is not what Ireland need - he looks lost and needs to go and rethink his game. Maybe he's looked good behind the Munster pack and assumptions have been made. Just get a basic 9 there for now as Sexton is class. The balance of the back row needs to be addressed, individually you have 3 great players, collectively they are not a unit and I thought the Munster lad fronted up well. For what its worth (probably not a lot) I would have chosen this back line in the 6 Nations against England

9 - Boss
10 - Sexton
11 - Kearney
12 - BOD
13 - Bowe
14 - Fitzgerald
15 - Kearney

[gleesonisgod]

Our best options for 13 are IMO

Cave
Bowe
Fitz
Move Marshall to 13 then have Madigan or Sexton at 12?

I think Cave has to be given a chance before he can be judged, even if he only became stop gap before somebody else came along it would be a success.

[Standulstermen]

Bowe is an option definitely but it is relatively short term.
Can we identify a youngster coming through to take the spot? Henshaw? Griffin? Farrell?

we are at the mercy of the next coaches prejudices and also lets not forget that Ulster have a very good 13 who has never had a shot with Ireland. To my mind they would be very resistant to moving Bowe.

I would also say that if we were to move Bowe the time to do it was after the Lions in 2009.

[RubyGuby]

by RubyGuby on Thu 14 Jun 2012 - 12:46
.

[Guest]

by RubyGuby on Thu 14 Jun 2012 - 12:46
.

Spotted it a bit late, Ruby..

[Standulstermen]

Couple of good interviews with anscombe on the beeb website. One about Ulster and one about Jackson taking the kicks this weekend.

[Guest]

Couple of good interviews with anscombe on the beeb website. One about Ulster and one about Jackson taking the kicks this weekend.

High praise from Anscombe, and maybe telling that Ireland want Paddy to play at the w/end taking on kicking duties. Maybe Ulster will rest Ruan. He needs a break.

[Standulstermen]

I expect pienaar to play. There is a three week break after this during which he will probably head back to SA on holiday.

Im sure rte can use that interview as further evidence that Anscombe doesnt rate Jackson

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I'm a big fan of the Bowe at 13 idea myself. Imagine Sexton-Marshall-Bowe

Yuuuuuum!

I'd also be game for Fitz playing 13.

[Guest]

I expect pienaar to play. There is a three week break after this during which he will probably head back to SA on holiday.

Im sure rte can use that interview as further evidence that Anscombe doesnt rate Jackson

True enough. A well earned 3 week break should have him back on form. We need him to be.
Yes, I have been following some of the nonsense being spouted by rte, the Indo', and so on. They are without any sense of shame or intellectual integrity when it comes to accurate reporting. Some stupid stuff, but the supporters aren't sucking it up. Most agree that PJ had a good game bar the kick at the sticks, and the loss not down to him. I think some reporting has backfired. The Indo deleted over 100 comments which were placing the responsibility of the loss, and Irelands current form, at Deccies feet. Not scapegoating individual players.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Great call from poster above re: the clearing out forwards who arrive at rucks and find no opposition. It's so negative. Use the space. Pick and go, make a short pop, or barrate the 9 for being too slow.

For what it's worth I think Murray was excellent against Wales and has been doing pretty well since November.

You'd have to guess that Fitz is in with a chance of the Leinster 13 jersey when bod retires so he will most likely be in the mix.

[neilthom7]

With wing option now the best they have ever been maybe moving Bowe is not a bad idea but he is not all that young anymore either really is it worth him learning it now and with cave playing well for Ulster I doubt we would be too on for moving him and teaching him there.

[Notch]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/win-stats-make-painful-reading-for-once-perfect-fit-kidney-223832.html

Not pretty reading. Lets hope better times lie ahead. But with the loss of O'Driscoll and O'Connell likely after this Six Nations, flux will be the nature of things.

[profitius]

This is my first post on the match. I missed it but only bothered to watch the first half.

Ireland played some good rugby in the first half. The second half collapse is common these days so no surprised there.


Heres what I think. I wouldn't blame any of the players for the defeat. People are too quick to point fingers but it all semantics. Jackson doesn't kick for Ulster, Earls wasn't the only one who messed up an opportunity and as a unit the Scottish scrum looked much more well drilled so I wouldn't say Court/Kilcoybe are to blame.


The main problem for Ireland is Kidney lacks that top end technical ability. Rugby is a bit like chess and the coaches decisions have a big impact. I remember saying earlier this season that ROG should not be in the Munster squad and here he is coming off the bench to try an rescue Ireland. Paddy Jackson should have been the sub and Madigan should have started. Madigans non selection certainly has nothing to do with form.


Kidneys selections are all over the place too. He usually picks solid, reliable players until they drop but he can also make some good decisions like Luke Marshall and Gilroy. But when the old fellas are fit he goes back to them.


Theres also a problem with a lack of leadership. Not only leadership but they look directionless too.


It wasn't all bad. The silver lining is a new coach coming in.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Looking at those stats Notch, its amazing Kidney has lasted this long in the job.

[Feckless Rogue]

Looking at those stats Notch, its amazing Kidney has lasted this long in the job.

Well I'd say that winning Ireland's first Grand Slam in 62 years and going unbeaten in 2009 earned him the second contract. There's merit in that on the face of it. But then 2010 and 2011 happened. I really didn't like the signs throughout 2010 and the 2011 6 Nations and RWC warm ups. We were clearly going backwards in my opinion. Getting progressively worse. And it was then that he was given the contract. That's what annoyed me. And the slide has predictably continued. The same problems recur over and over and simply haven't been rectified.

I see Kearney and others are publicly defending Deccie and claiming the blame should be on their shoulders. It's the right thing to do in defence of a nice man. But it's time for a change after the championship.

It'll be very interesting to how both teams play in the next match. Two humiliated teams. Only pride to play for. I think it's too late to press the reset button on either the captaincy or the flyhalf at this stage (and I quite liked the look of Jackson actually). Heaslip needs two games to answer his critics. Then let the next coach, if there is one, make his decision on the captaincy.

A win against the French would be nice all the same. It's one win in thirteen or something now isn't it?

[Sin é]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/win-stats-make-painful-reading-for-once-perfect-fit-kidney-223832.html

Not pretty reading. Lets hope better times lie ahead. But with the loss of O'Driscoll and O'Connell likely after this Six Nations, flux will be the nature of things.

Ireland has been without both of them mostly since the world cup, though I wouldn't write Paul O'Connell off just yet. He is back training.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/11593.php

Image 20.

[Feckless Rogue]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/win-stats-make-painful-reading-for-once-perfect-fit-kidney-223832.html

Not pretty reading. Lets hope better times lie ahead. But with the loss of O'Driscoll and O'Connell likely after this Six Nations, flux will be the nature of things.

Ireland has been without both of them mostly since the world cup, though I wouldn't write Paul O'Connell off just yet. He is back training.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/11593.php

Image 20.

Jaysus he looks skinny. I guess when someone that big and bulky is laid off for a long time he pretty much has to lose weight or he'll become a fat feicer, without all the training.

[profitius]

POC is still young for a lock. The back injury could be a blessing for him and Ireland. If thats sorted then it'll mean he has been out for a long time giving his body a nice long rest. He could come back feeling refreshed and rejuvenated.

[Golden]

He may be young(ish) for a lock but his body has played a lot of rugby. Id have concerns over how long hell last. Every time he comes back from an injury he seems to get another one in the next couple of months. And most of his injuries lately seem to take a longer time to recover from then expected.

[doctor_grey]

With players like POC, the expression which applies is: "it ain't the years, it's the mileage".
He is a guy who has played very hard, and now has a very significant injury as a result. If he comes back at his former level, it will be a surprise. Its a good question whether he should come back at all.

[rodders]

This is my first post on the match. I missed it but only bothered to watch the first half.

Ireland played some good rugby in the first half. The second half collapse is common these days so no surprised there.


Heres what I think. I wouldn't blame any of the players for the defeat. People are too quick to point fingers but it all semantics. Jackson doesn't kick for Ulster, Earls wasn't the only one who messed up an opportunity and as a unit the Scottish scrum looked much more well drilled so I wouldn't say Court/Kilcoybe are to blame.


The main problem for Ireland is Kidney lacks that top end technical ability. Rugby is a bit like chess and the coaches decisions have a big impact. I remember saying earlier this season that ROG should not be in the Munster squad and here he is coming off the bench to try an rescue Ireland. Paddy Jackson should have been the sub and Madigan should have started. Madigans non selection certainly has nothing to do with form.


Kidneys selections are all over the place too. He usually picks solid, reliable players until they drop but he can also make some good decisions like Luke Marshall and Gilroy. But when the old fellas are fit he goes back to them.


Theres also a problem with a lack of leadership. Not only leadership but they look directionless too.


It wasn't all bad. The silver lining is a new coach coming in.

Yeah good post, pretty spot on there.

Re: O'Connell I'd love to see him back but the volume and seriousness of his injuries is pretty ominous. As with BOD I think the writing is on the wall. I'm sure the mind is willing and they are both capable of the odd vintage performance but their bodies are rapidly abandoning them. Both could no doubt do another provincial season or two but at international level I am sorry to say their days look numbered.

[rodders]

Our best options for 13 are IMO

Cave
Bowe
Fitz
Move Marshall to 13 then have Madigan or Sexton at 12?

I think Cave has to be given a chance before he can be judged, even if he only became stop gap before somebody else came along it would be a success.

I think the signs are that the IRFU see Marshall as the next option at 13. I suspect that if the great man does retire D'arcy and Marshall will be lining out together next season....beyond that who knows....

They seem to have given up on Earls, Cave and McFadden and are looking at other options. Did someone mention Trimble was asked to play 13 last week?

[GunsGerms]

Our best options for 13 are IMO

Cave
Bowe
Fitz
Move Marshall to 13 then have Madigan or Sexton at 12?

I think Cave has to be given a chance before he can be judged, even if he only became stop gap before somebody else came along it would be a success.

I think the signs are that the IRFU see Marshall as the next option at 13. I suspect that if the great man does retire D'arcy and Marshall will be lining out together next season....beyond that who knows....

They seem to have given up on Earls, Cave and McFadden and are looking at other options. Did someone mention Trimble was asked to play 13 last week?

new management new ideas. Who knows what the new manager will do at 12 and 13.

[Sin é]

Our best options for 13 are IMO

Cave
Bowe
Fitz
Move Marshall to 13 then have Madigan or Sexton at 12?

I think Cave has to be given a chance before he can be judged, even if he only became stop gap before somebody else came along it would be a success.

I think the signs are that the IRFU see Marshall as the next option at 13. I suspect that if the great man does retire D'arcy and Marshall will be lining out together next season....beyond that who knows....

They seem to have given up on Earls, Cave and McFadden and are looking at other options. Did someone mention Trimble was asked to play 13 last week?

The IRFU see Marshall at the next 13 - did you come to this conclusion from watching his passing at the weekend.

How have they given up on Earls - there are fairly obvious signs (no central contract) that McFadden or Cave are not in the IRFU's plans. How have they given up on Earls.

Is that the reason that Trimble is looking at moving to Stade?

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