Ireland Tour of USA & Canada

First topic message reminder :

Ok so we're headed over for a two test tour of Canada and USA. Personally I think that there is little to be gained from such a tour. A once off match with USA and another with the Canadians but ce la vie.

The point is who do we want to see out there. We will have some guys on Lions Tour - I suspect Healy, Best, O'Connell, O'Brien, Sexton, O'Driscoll, Bowe and Kearney.

Other guys - like Mike Ross - I wouldn't bother bringing on tour. The man is currently invaluable as we have no depth. Giving him the Summer off rugby increases his longevity and also allows us to find new options.

Our objectives simply should be:

- To win both games
- To find new options in centre
- To find new options at tighthead
- To find new options at fullback
- To play for the full 80 minutes (like against Fiji)

I would be looking at the following team:

01 David Kilcoyne
02 Sean Cronin
03 Stephen Archer

Kilcoyne and Archer were our backups in the 6 Nations and I think its logical we give them a go. Sherry would be a good choice in that it makes an all Munster front row but I think its important to get our props used to scrummaging with a different hooker.

04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Mike McCarthy

Assuming that Paul O'Connell makes the Lions, why not keep our lock pairing from the 6 Nations. We need to make changes in other positions so some continuity is important.

06 Iain Henderson
07 Tommy O'Donnell
08 Jamie Heaslip (c)

Not a popular captain this is a good tour for Heaslip to become the leader he needs to be. The "grown ups" of the team are gone or rested, this is the chance he gets to prove his merits. I think O'Donnell is a better #7 than Peter O'Mahony who I think would make a good bench player. We need to learn how to use a bench and O'Mahonys aggression will raise the intensity whenever he is introduced.

09 Kieran Marmion
10 Ian Madigan

The all Ulster pairing of Marshall and Jackson is probably the more likely given they were ahead in the 6 Nations and already know each others game (especially with Marshall playing at 12). However I think Madigan needs to go into the Summer as the leading flyhalf and Marshall to me is the ideal #21. Its why he looks so good for Ulster, he comes in and changes the pace of the game attacking the fringes of the breakdown like Care does for England. Marmion has been a stand out player for Connacht starting every game and deserves to start. Let Murray have a break along with Reddan and Boss - we know what these guys can do.

12 Luke Marshall
13 Darren Cave

It makes sense. We always knew it really. He hasn't got bags of pace and he ain't the next O'Driscoll but he is an outside centre (a very difficult position to develop). There aren't many out and out #13s in world rugby, why ignore the only proper one we have outside of BOD. He's done the business for Ulster and sandwiched between Marshall and Gilroy he should be in his comfort zone delivering what we saw them do against Fiji. Marshall has been a good introduction during the 6 Nations and should continue in the role.

11 Simon Zebo
14 Craig Gilroy
15 Robbie Henshaw

Regardless of whether Kearney makes the Lions Tour I think its important to see Henshaw start at 15. We badly need options at fullback, we've seen Zebo at 15 but realistically Henshaw should play there. Zebo and Gilroy have I think always looked great for Ireland and should add competition when Bowe returns.

Like I said I think we'll have to agree to disagree, fingers crossed he'll come good.
edit: that being said I wouldn't consider to know a huge amount about second row play. I just like the way he operates for Leinster.

Heaney is having a really good game here

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Like I said I think we'll have to agree to disagree, fingers crossed he'll come good.

Cross your fingers all you like- you either have it or you don't!

Woeful stuff from Ireland so far. Dominating in the scrum though.

Great break from Georgia there right between Allen and Griffin

Georgia pressure pays off- well deserved score in truth.

McGrath got killed in that scrum leads to a Georgian try on halftime

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:McGrath got killed in that scrum leads to a Georgian try on halftime

Yeah they must have not been concentrating because they've been the dominant scrum throughout.

I'd like to see Noel Reid come in at 12 and Jordi Murphy come on for Diack and Nagle for Foley.

Georgia look well up for this! Huge hits from them.

profitius wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:McGrath got killed in that scrum leads to a Georgian try on halftime

Yeah they must have not been concentrating because they've been the dominant scrum throughout.

I'd like to see Noel Reid come in at 12 and Jordi Murphy come on for Diack and Nagle for Foley.

I think the Georgian 7 may have been helping a bit too! cheeky of him but if he gets away with it!

strong wind at our backs this half

Dave Kearney gives us the lead- we now have a significant wind advantage in this half.

Notch wrote:Dave Kearney gives us the lead- we now have a significant wind advantage in this half.

[b]

ha! Great minds think alike on everything except Devin Toner it would seem!

Could Michael Bent give less of a Smeg?

Should have been a yellow card for the Georgian. Shoulder charged Kearney off the ball.

Great try Georgia. Jeez we're soft

We should try this revolutionary new defensive strategy called not falling off first-up tackles. I hear its great.

I've always been a fan of Griffin but he is falling off tackles like nothing else at the moment

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I've always been a fan of Griffin but he is falling off tackles like nothing else at the moment

Dominic Ryan, Rob Herring and Ian Keatley too

Stop running laterally in wide channels... seriously.

last real chance here, if we can get the squeeze on their scrum or disrupt their clearance

Georgia crowd don't like this- its over though. And we might well get away with a win, despite the performance.

McGrath wins a penalty in scrum, right hand side, on the 22 yard line, 5 metres in from touch, Georgian crowd howling....Ian Keatley....

gets it!

What odd say this penalty hits the post and Georgia take and run 90m for a try?

Georgia fullback will really regret missing two penalties in front of the posts now.

I thought that was the lack kick of the game as I've just tuned in and the clock on my stream says 83 minutes :/ sorry.

Yeah I'm well over 80minutes too.

Georgian number 18 is sin binned for a punch

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah I'm well over 80minutes too.

Georgian number 18 is sin binned for a punch

It was incredibly blatant and stupid.

Georgia B defended really well for the whole game. Im actually surprised how well they played.

Ireland win 20-15 but a pretty disappointing showing, especially without the ball. Georgias terrible place kicking cost them.

Sean Cronin doesn't look like hes had a good game. In the few minutes I saw he gave away a free kick at the lineout and in the end of match highlights the Georgian 10 handed him off with absolute ease in the lead up to a try.

Cronin is in the US...

McGrath looked really good and Heaney showed well. Kearney was a level above most others. Aside from that, there was a lot of mediocrity. Guys like Ruddock, Diack, Griffin, Morris, Stevenson and Ryan really didn't turn up

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Cronin is in the US...

Who was that at hooker then, Rob Herring?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:McGrath looked really good and Heaney showed well. Kearney was a level above most others. Aside from that, there was a lot of mediocrity. Guys like Ruddock, Diack, Griffin, Morris, Stevenson and Ryan really didn't turn up

Add Herring to that list. I didn't even know he was in the Irish setup.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Cronin is in the US...

Who was that at hooker then, Rob Herring?

Yup

I think it was Niall Anette

Just realized the team in the OP is for the USA tour, I thought it was this match

Was it Herring?? It says Annett on the bench.

For flip sake I missed this one. Will it be uploaded anywhere? Is it even worth watching?

Sounds pretty disappointing.

Who has been coaching this team? What sort of preparation have they had?

Allan Clarke is head coach.

Rory: don't bother bru

I hope the USA game is much better.

i thought Heaney looked very good. He has an excellent pass. I would be hoping to see him overtake Marshall next season.
Some serious issues with tackling. Herring was guilty as was Ruddock, Griffin and Ryan.
Did Diack do anything wrong? I thought he was decent in contact and turned over some ball. he isnt dynamic enough to play 8 but did rightly.
McGrath at LH continues to impress me and Keatleys kicking was a positive.

I worry for Ruddock and Ryan though. I fear injuries have robbed the latter of seriosu development time and the former just doesnt seem to cut it. With Gilsenan, Leavy etc coming through i would be very surprised if leinster retained both of them.

Dominic Ryan looked very good in the past few games I have seen for Leinster. He did look raw, but with huge potential. It sounds like he really wasn't good for this game though. Disappointing.

Dissapointed to hear about Ryan not having a great game, big favourite of mine. However both him and Ruddock are probably in a better position now than O'Donnell was at their age.

Also annoyed over the selection of Henderson at 6 rather than at 2nd row, as most people seem to be. He has a much better chance of breaking into the Ireland team at 2nd row IMO.

My hope is for Ryan, POC, Henderson, an possibly Mccarthy to be competing for the RWC squad for 2nd row.

Back row I'm a little bit worried about the no.8 position. With Heaslip's up and down form I think SOB should be tried there and hopefully POM gets more game time there.......or Stander? . I would like to think that one Henry, TOD, Ryan, or Leavy will be starting 7 for us, if not we can always play SOB there. I think we have best depth for 6 with POM, SOB, and Hendo.

I can't think of a position where we should struggle to have depth

Roll on the REAL Golden Generation.

gleesonisgod wrote:Also annoyed over the selection of Henderson at 6 rather than at 2nd row, as most people seem to be. He has a much better chance of breaking into the Ireland team at 2nd row IMO.

Are the selectors meant to just ignore the fact that all his best performances for Ulster have come at blindside and all his worst performances have come at lock?

He's not good enough for test rugby at lock yet, I think he will be once he develops a bit but based on last season there are a number of better locks in the country- but maybe only a couple better blindsides, not including Ferris. We need to dial down the hype and look at the facts with our players in this country.

gleesonisgod wrote:Dissapointed to hear about Ryan not having a great game, big favourite of mine. However both him and Ruddock are probably in a better position now than O'Donnell was at their age.

Also annoyed over the selection of Henderson at 6 rather than at 2nd row, as most people seem to be. He has a much better chance of breaking into the Ireland team at 2nd row IMO.

My hope is for Ryan, POC, Henderson, an possibly Mccarthy to be competing for the RWC squad for 2nd row.

Back row I'm a little bit worried about the no.8 position. With Heaslip's up and down form I think SOB should be tried there and hopefully POM gets more game time there.......or Stander? . I would like to think that one Henry, TOD, Ryan, or Leavy will be starting 7 for us, if not we can always play SOB there. I think we have best depth for 6 with POM, SOB, and Hendo.

I can't think of a position where we should struggle to have depth

Roll on the REAL Golden Generation.

I wonder will we see Hendo get the next game in the row? probably not but it would be interesting and would mean Joe has an open mind as to where he needs brought through. I think Henderson will break into that backrow within the year injury permitting. Be it (most likely) at POMs expense or someone else. Stander wont be IQ for the RWC i believe so thats him out. Ryan is not in the picture at the minute and neither is leavy truth be told as he has another year of under 20 and leinster arent exactly shy of backrowers so options may be limited for him in a way that they werent for Henderson and Olding. TOD could definitely be in the mix but im not sure he is the traditional 7 we have been waiting for. I dont think Henry, for all his attributes will ever nail a starting spot but would love to be wrong.

Just on Notchs point i would argue his game against leinster at ravenhill at lock was possibly his best game for us last season. He was disappointing towards the end though but that maybe due to it being a very long season for one so young. Either way i will be happy if he gets a position and is allowed to stick to it although that may depend on the likes of Tuohy and Stevenson performing consistently for Ulster

I quite like our backrow;

We have a big ball carrier at 6, a grafter and groundhog at 7, and a well-rounded footballing 8. It's quite balanced.

I hope the coaches don't fall into the trap of moving Henderson to lock next week. He's the best blindside on tour but Dan Tuohy is a better lock forward, so if we're gonna rotate the pack...

all i really hope for going into next season is that Henderson has 1 position and if it is 6 that he is allowed to iron out the flaws in his game. To my mind he needs to up the workrate for a 6 and discipline is an issue although it has improved in the 2nd half of the season.

In terms of raw potential he is the best thing we have seen since POC