Tighthead choices for the Lions tour to Australia

First topic message reminder :

Six nations is done. We are a year on since I last held one of these polls and the long term aim was to compare what we selected a year out, a month out and the final squad.

You can pick one player only as your first choice.

I think I have grabbed most of the names in the hat, though my apologies if anyone you consider worthy has been forgotten, if you ask nicely then I am sure one of our excellent moderators might take the time to be kind enough to offer their much valued assistance.

The players included either showed in the Six Nations squads or have been regularly talked of as prospects on the various threads on here.
Looseheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42452-loosehead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Hookers - https://www.606v2.com/t42471-hooker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Lock No. 4 - https://www.606v2.com/t42501-number-4-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956467

Lock no. 5 - https://www.606v2.com/t42502-number-5-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Blindside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42514-blindside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Openside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42515-ospenside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956975

Number 8 - https://www.606v2.com/t42518-number-eight-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958144

Scrumhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42531-scrumhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Flyhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42539-flyhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958609

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I do take your points about Coles attributes and I do agree he does well outside the scrum, and that he is not a bad scrummager himself.

But I don't think he is the cornerstone that Adam Jones is, you discredit Adam for his work around the field, he gets through a hell of a lot more than you seem to notice.

In the same way you credit Cole with his foraging for ball, Adam doesn't have to for Wales when we have other men doing it. He is busy elsewhere.

I concede Adam has the luxury of a good pack around him when Coles pack lack grunt, skill and experience in the scrum, as was highly evident a couple of weeks ago.

The lesson learned this six nations is that experience in the big games counts. Jones has a lot to give any team he plays for. More than Cole.

Until that last game Maes I had Cole and Jones pegged at 1, and 2 in the world, I had Healy as a good player who can be suspect at times, and Jenkins unfit...

What would you think of a front row of...

Jones, Hibbard, Cole???

Has Jones or Cole ever played l/head I thought they were both out n out tighties

They are both tightheads. Neither play loosehead.

I think Bluesman mad a typo.

No typo, I mesant to ask if you fancied Cole for a loosehead spot. From my understanding Cole has played loosehead in his younger days, and has the athleticism around the park to play there, a little tweak to his scrummaging and he could be a hugely destructive loosehead too ( no good for England but it's the lions tour not the English tour)

I don't see why Cole couldn't convert succesfully, it would be like combining Jenkins and James!!!

Hmmm sounds a far less obvious idea than putting Tuilagi on the wing.

When we have excellent competition for looseheads why convert our second best tight head?

It makes no sense. We need cole as a tight head either in the three shirt or on the bench raring to go.

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I do take your points about Coles attributes and I do agree he does well outside the scrum, and that he is not a bad scrummager himself.

But I don't think he is the cornerstone that Adam Jones is, you discredit Adam for his work around the field, he gets through a hell of a lot more than you seem to notice.

In the same way you credit Cole with his foraging for ball, Adam doesn't have to for Wales when we have other men doing it. He is busy elsewhere.

I concede Adam has the luxury of a good pack around him when Coles pack lack grunt, skill and experience in the scrum, as was highly evident a couple of weeks ago.

The lesson learned this six nations is that experience in the big games counts. Jones has a lot to give any team he plays for. More than Cole.

Until that last game Maes I had Cole and Jones pegged at 1, and 2 in the world, I had Healy as a good player who can be suspect at times, and Jenkins unfit...

What would you think of a front row of...

Jones, Hibbard, Cole???

Has Jones or Cole ever played l/head I thought they were both out n out tighties

They are both tightheads. Neither play loosehead.

I think Bluesman mad a typo.

No typo, I mesant to ask if you fancied Cole for a loosehead spot. From my understanding Cole has played loosehead in his younger days, and has the athleticism around the park to play there, a little tweak to his scrummaging and he could be a hugely destructive loosehead too ( no good for England but it's the lions tour not the English tour)

I don't see why Cole couldn't convert succesfully, it would be like combining Jenkins and James!!!

Hmmm sounds a far less obvious idea than putting Tuilagi on the wing.

When we have excellent competition for looseheads why convert our second best tight head?

It makes no sense. We need cole as a tight head either in the three shirt or on the bench raring to go.

Or we pop Healy AND Jenkins on the bench even more raring to go in the latter stages?! Cole will still be around for TH cover, just being utilised on the pitch instead of sat on the bench. I think it'd be an interesting experiment to try, even if it is for just 20 mins early June!

Why do you think Cole would be a better loosehead than Jenkins, James, Healy, Grant or Sheridan who are all more experienced.

Jenkins and James both had Cole under the thumb in the scrum in his normal tighthead position.

Really can't see it working.

I think Dan Cole is the best all round option.

Adam Jones is slightly stronger in the scrum but the way games are refereed it makes the scrum a bit of a lottery. I'd rather not put all our eggs in the scrum basket with AJ, as the Aussies are always very clever in the set piece and are rarely dominated despite the weakness. Cole is still a stronger scrummager than any Australian prop, so if we are allowed to dominate we will still be able to.

In every other facet of the game, Cole is far superior to Jones. He will put in a big shift and be highly influential at the breakdown. Jones on the bench to come on and turn the screw if the scrum is going well.

I think some stats might have to be introduced to these threads later.

Tackle count, passes, turnovers, penalties conceded, and metres covered.

Any other suggestions?

Adam Jones at the moment.

Cole is class but looked out on his feet throughout the 6N's and gave very little to the team, it'll be interesting to see how he goes against Saints today, and then the following European fixture against Toulon will be the perfect place for him to show his qualities. After that he'll potentially have knock out games against the best in Europe and England to carry on finding his form.

What games will Adam Jones be playing between now and the Lions to show his form?

yappysnap wrote:Adam Jones at the moment.

Cole is class but looked out on his feet throughout the 6N's and gave very little to the team, it'll be interesting to see how he goes against Saints today, and then the following European fixture against Toulon will be the perfect place for him to show his qualities. After that he'll potentially have knock out games against the best in Europe and England to carry on finding his form.

What games will Adam Jones be playing between now and the Lions to show his form?

Adam has the run in for the RP12 and hopefully the play offs.

Looking rather conclusive on the tighthead poll..

Adam Jones

Looks like Adam will be favourite.

Thought it would be so much closer.

The Pack so far is looking like this


Cian Healy 41% 27
Rory Best 47% 28
Adam Jones 61% 30
Geoff Parling 15.4% 17
AW Jones 15.4% 17
Kelly Brown 28% 12
Justin Tipuric 43% 13
John Beattie 39% 12

SYNOPSIS OF THE POLL SO FAR...

Forwards

Cian Healy 41% 31
Rory Best 49% 37
Adam Jones 62% 36
Richie Gray 16% 22
Geoff Parling 14% 23
Chris Robshaw 27% 16
Justin Tipuric 44% 22
John Beattie 37% 22 (Toby Faletau 1 vote short)

Backs

Ben Youngs 54% 27
Jonny Sexton 44% 18
Jamie Roberts is tied with Billy Twelvetrees 31% 4
Manu Tuilagi 50% 7 (Brian O'Driscoll is 1 vote short)

Dan Cole has had huge support in posts but the poll says Adam Jones by a landslide.

Someone up above said the Rev ( Murray) didn't do much around the park - 15 tackles in the welsh (IIRC) game - his tackle counts this 6N were huge

TJ wrote:Someone up above said the Rev ( Murray) didn't do much around the park - 15 tackles in the welsh (IIRC) game - his tackle counts this 6N were huge

Very impressive.

Where do you get these individual player stats from six nations games? I keep seeing them touted around, but it might be worth while looking at the stats for a few of our leading contenders...?

Stats here. http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/series/133756.html?template=results
I belive they are not always terribly reliable. I didn't check before I posted - I will now.

8 tackles against Wales 13 against Italy

should have checked before the post

TJ wrote:Stats here. http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/series/133756.html?template=results
I belive they are not always terribly reliable. I didn't check before I posted - I will now.

Cheers mate... Ill have a good look at those later, see if we can find a few truths and bust a few myths.

The poll is open until a week before the squad is announced, there is still a decent amount of rugby to be played and peoples thoughts and views may change. As it stands currently these are the Squad choices by the mob that contributes to 606V2.

I dont know the make up or how many he really will pick so i am just running with top three options...


Loosehead Prop 89 votes so far

Cian Healy 39
Ryan Grant 20
Gethin Jenkins 15


Hooker 92 votes so far

Rory Best 45
Richard Hibbard 21
Tom Youngs 11


Tighthead 74 votes so far

Adam Jones 47
Dan Cole 19
Euan Murray 4

Locks 144 votes so far over the two polls so averaging 72 Votes

Geoff Parling 29
Richie Gray 29
AWJ 21
Ian Evans 20


Blindeside Flankers 78 votes so far

Chris Robshaw 19
Kelly Brown 18
Sean O'Brien 17


Openside Flankers 74 votes so far

Justin Tipuric 33
Sam Warburton 14
Chris Robshaw 13 (leading the Blindside option)
Ross Rennie 8 (Next best after Robshaw)


Number Eight 73 votes so far

Toby Faletau 28
John Beattie 26
Ben Morgan 10


Scrumhalf 73 votes so far

Ben Youngs 38
Mike Phillips 20
Greig Laidlaw 10


Flyhalf 59 votes so far

Jonny Sexton 30
Owen Farrell 13
Dan Biggar 6


Inside Centre 53 votes so far

Billy Twelvetrees 11
Jonathan Davies 13 (Also 3rd in the outside centre Poll)
Matt Scott 11
Jamie Roberts & Luke Marshall 7 (If we were to consider JD2 at outside)


Outside Centre

Brian O'Driscoll 22
Manu Tuilagi 22
Jonathan Davies 9


Right Winger 44 Votes so far

Sean Maitland 22
Alex Cuthbert 11
Christian Wade 7


Left Winger 45 votes so far

George North 21
Tim Visser 8
Simon Zebo 5


Fullback 59 votes so far

Stuart Hogg 25
Leigh Halfpenny 22
Rob Keaney 7

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I do take your points about Coles attributes and I do agree he does well outside the scrum, and that he is not a bad scrummager himself.

But I don't think he is the cornerstone that Adam Jones is, you discredit Adam for his work around the field, he gets through a hell of a lot more than you seem to notice.

In the same way you credit Cole with his foraging for ball, Adam doesn't have to for Wales when we have other men doing it. He is busy elsewhere.

I concede Adam has the luxury of a good pack around him when Coles pack lack grunt, skill and experience in the scrum, as was highly evident a couple of weeks ago.

The lesson learned this six nations is that experience in the big games counts. Jones has a lot to give any team he plays for. More than Cole.

Until that last game Maes I had Cole and Jones pegged at 1, and 2 in the world, I had Healy as a good player who can be suspect at times, and Jenkins unfit...

What would you think of a front row of...

Jones, Hibbard, Cole???

Has Jones or Cole ever played l/head I thought they were both out n out tighties

They are both tightheads. Neither play loosehead.

I think Bluesman mad a typo.

No typo, I mesant to ask if you fancied Cole for a loosehead spot. From my understanding Cole has played loosehead in his younger days, and has the athleticism around the park to play there, a little tweak to his scrummaging and he could be a hugely destructive loosehead too ( no good for England but it's the lions tour not the English tour)

I don't see why Cole couldn't convert succesfully, it would be like combining Jenkins and James!!!

Well anyone else seemed to consider crossing Cole over to Loosehead

Another weekend done and dusted. The squad to be announced after the next...!

Possibly the most resounding vote.

Adam Jones with Cole languishing behind. But who deserves that third place spot? Murray has it with four sole votes to two at the moment.

maestegmafia wrote:Possibly the most resounding vote.

Adam Jones with Cole languishing behind. But who deserves that third place spot? Murray has it with four sole votes to two at the moment.

People can see this for themselves. Stop clogging up the international section, you idiot. Some people have limited Internet and would prefer to be able to find articles of interest. If you really wanted these things to change or be monitored or whatever, well you did it too early. There is no discussion here, so leave it be and give people like me who actually work for a living, a chance to find articles of interest, rather than seeing your guff and having to sift through that to find an article worth commenting on

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Possibly the most resounding vote.

Adam Jones with Cole languishing behind. But who deserves that third place spot? Murray has it with four sole votes to two at the moment.

People can see this for themselves. Stop clogging up the international section, you idiot. Some people have limited Internet and would prefer to be able to find articles of interest. If you really wanted these things to change or be monitored or whatever, well you did it too early. There is no discussion here, so leave it be and give people like me who actually work for a living, a chance to find articles of interest, rather than seeing your guff and having to sift through that to find an article worth commenting on

+1

I think the choice of Tighthead is interesting debate

You don't, then don't read it.

Particularly the call for who goes alongside Cole and Jones.

It's not about reading it is it. I don't click on them anymore, but there's no way of avoiding the poxy thread when the title usually gets bumped up, ffs. It isn't an interesting debate as no frigger is contributing to it. Are you really that ignorant?

Lastly

"The poll is open until a week before the squad is announced"

Your rules. 6 days to go (less than a week), so no more bumping. Of course, I'm sure you'll change your mind just because you've somehow convinced yourself that people care. If you have to bump any, why not just do the one with all the other links on? You're nothing more than a spammer.

Pretty sure poll closes tomorrow.

Why don't you stop whinging and maybe create a thread on a topic you find interesting?

Dan Cole should be nowhere near the tour,he got pasted by the Aussie scrum a few months ago,#massively over rated player!
Even our non scrummaging prop Gethin wiped the floor with him.

Adam and Euan first choice with Low and Andrews fighting it out mid week.

maestegmafia wrote:Pretty sure poll closes tomorrow.

Why don't you stop whinging and maybe create a thread on a topic you find interesting?

Pretty sure tomorrow isn't a week before the squad announcement. That's five days.

I would create a thread, but it would get lost in amongst yours, so that's a bit pointless. Great discussion on these now though, after your bumps.

viewtothegym wrote:Dan Cole should be nowhere near the tour,he got pasted by the Aussie scrum a few months ago,#massively over rated player!
Even our non scrummaging prop Gethin wiped the floor with him.

Adam and Euan first choice with Low and Andrews fighting it out mid week.