Out with the old, in with the new at Edinburgh

First topic message reminder :

Former Wasps & QPR boss appointed MD

Davies seems to have a good CV with experience in rugby. Also has experience in "building" stadiums.

It'll be interesting to hear Wasps/QPR fans view of him.

Rennie actually carries quite a bit of ball, as do Gilchrist (although he should carry more) and Cox.

Harley is working quite hard on his ball carrying by all accounts, and I think he'll develop nicely over the next year or so. I'd have no issues about a Harley, Rennie and Denton back row. Denton is at his best carrying ball.

I'd obviously love Barclay to come across as well, but I really can't see that happening.

I agree about intelligence, there's a lack of rugby intelligence in the Edinburgh pack. Laidlaw is smart, and usually displays good judgement, but I felt that he was too conservative against Connacht. A couple of times when we had them on the ropes Laidlaw too easy settled for 3 points. We struggled and battled hard for our 3 pointers, and yet they scored 14 pretty straightforward points. McInally is a smart player, but he's about 3 inches and 2 stones away from being an international back rower.

I think as has been called out, we have a large squad, but it’s packed with average players.

In the summer, where possible we need to overhaul the squad (I appreciate contracts etc may dictate otherwise) but we’re choking with bang average players.

If it was up to me (count your lucky stars its not) I would look to clear out a huge number of the squad players and focus more on the youth we have in the side. I am not talking a total overhaul, but I refuse to believe that Atiga is genuinely the best option after Scott, nor is Sep Visser worthy of a space in the squad. I float this suggestion based on the assumption that as neither Scottish side made much of a dent in Europe and we recruited like demons in the summer, we may have to be realistic in terms of what we can and cannot afford.

Fill the spots where we have no other options and use our young players to make up the gaps. I know this will set us back to where we were last year before the injection of cash, but seeing how it was spent so badly (at Edinburgh) I can’t see any other option, other than throwing more money at it, which isn’t sustainable.

What do people think of Mcinally at Edinburgh. He seems to do some good things every now and then but then follows it up with a real elementary error. I don't see him playing international rugby anytime soon given the backrow competition.

I'd like to see Harley develop his carrying. He has great mental qualities, very driven and focused but I still feel if he is to have an international future it is more likely to be in the second row that backrow. What I don't know is if you lose too much by having two 6 foot 4 second rows like Swinson and Harley playing together.

Another player I thought might move to Edinburgh is Duncan Taylor. He doesn't seem to get enough game time at Saracens currently but looked handy for Scotland A. Seems quite versatile too.

Duncan Taylor would fit the bill nicely for a big strong 13 - 6ft3 and 14st 7 apparently. I'd be happy with him.

Duncan Taylor is a very good shout. With Cairns probably needing to work his way back to full fitness on a longer timeframe (7's being my suggestion), Taylor coming to Edinburgh to compete for the 13 jersey would make sense for all involved. Looks pretty direct and physical, which is what we need.

The other 13 option is Alex Grove if he can be convinced to leave Worcester. Hugely underrated player - he has a great allround game. From a Scotland perspective, with him playing every week for Worcester, it probably makes little sense to move him, but I'd welcome him at Edinburgh with open arms.

McInally is a smart heads-up rugby player, which is lucky, because he needs the top two inches to make up for his lack of size and power. He's a bit like Roddy Grant. Good squad player to have, and I hope he stays. I agree though that he's unlikely to win many international caps.

funnyExiledScot wrote:The weak link for me was Grant Gilchrist - was he even playing?? He's really got to start being more influential, and punch his weight.

A few of the players were over worked during the week by the Scotland S&C team, Gilchrist being one. They either shouldn't have been playing or should not have trained so heavily. Bad management!

That's interesting. I wonder why they trained so hard this week, right at the end of the season? Seems odd.

My criticism of Gilchrist though is a bit of a re-occurring theme. He's got a big frame, he's athletic and seems to be technically strong. He translates good power into the scrum, and has improved his lineout work. I just don't see enough of him in open play. A bloke as big and as athletic as him should stand out more (e.g. Richie Gray), and I should be seeing him week in week out really thundering into rucks and tackles. If we could take Cox's attitude and put Gilchrist's physique together, we'd have a truly fearsome player. He's a promising talent, and could yet develop into a top international lock, but there's some nasty missing. We need to get him more wound up, I don't even care if the odd yellow card comes from it. It's the main thing missing from his game.

I'm still also undecided about Laidlaw. I thought he needed to be moved back to 9 for Scotland's sake but it seemed to work better for Edinburgh with him commanding things from 10 and this six nations has left me unsure of him as the scrum half solution. A no doubt intelligent and key player but Mckibbens would be a good Maitland esq signing, he is aggressive and confident and would add more at 9 than Laidlaw does currently. If that is unlikely Rory Lawson may be a short term 9 option if Laidlaw were to play 10 again given Blairs move to Newcastle.

On a side note, have murrayfield considered this for the home games;

http://www.otc-forums.com/index.php?/topic/8006-see-how-italian-side-covered-up-low-attendances-with-proper-plastic-fans/

Add that to the canned cheering they have it might make Denton and Parker think they are playing to 60,000 each week!

Well I don't know where we got them from, but against Ulster we managed to find a big bunch of Italians (I think, or possibly Argentinians) to come to the West Stand, and they made a complete racket. They also drank their body weights in Caledonian Best. We should pay them to come.....

I haven't seem McKibben play, but have heard he's a decent scrum half (plus a goal kicker). With Laidlaw and Kennedy it's not a priority position for us, but if he's qualified to play for Scotland already, I'd take him.

I thought they were French? They were singing the French anthem quite a lot!

McKibbin is like me - handsome, super-fit and born in Irvine*.

The problem is that he's already been called into the Wallabies squad and has expressed a desire to play for Australia. Seems to be only a matter of time although I would say that McKibbin is surely behind Genia and Phipps in the pecking order. We live in hope.

*One of those may not be true.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I thought they were French? They were singing the French anthem quite a lot!

That's possibly right. They were absolutely hammered, but added some much needed noise, albeit slightly on the disrespectful side when Paddy Jackson was lining up to botch yet another kick.

George Carlin wrote:McKibbin is like me - handsome, super-fit and born in Irvine*.

The problem is that he's already been called into the Wallabies squad and has expressed a desire to play for Australia. Seems to be only a matter of time although I would say that McKibbin is surely behind Genia and Phipps in the pecking order. We live in hope.

*One of those may not be true.

Well I'm not one to be choosey. Hopefully he'll change his mind. Scrum half is becoming an issue with Blair, Lawson and Cusiter getting longer in the tooth and suffering injuries. Pyrgos is not a top notch international scrum half, Laidlaw still feels the need to take on the entire role of game management himself, and thus rarely gives his fly half decent ball, and Kennedy is still a bit green and prone to making errors of judgement.

That's what I thought but story very similar to Maitland and I wondered if, at 27, not called into the australian training squad and the waratahs signing nick Phipps for next year and burgess returning to Melboune he my well be convinced by a move now. Having seen him play I think he would add a lot and push for Scotland. He is quick, physical, aggressive and a competent goal kicker.

DrTreasure wrote:That's what I thought but story very similar to Maitland and I wondered if, at 27, not called into the australian training squad and the waratahs signing nick Phipps for next year and burgess returning to Melboune he my well be convinced by a move now. Having seen him play I think he would add a lot and push for Scotland. He is quick, physical, aggressive and a competent goal kicker.

Hopefully Lineen is all over that mo-fo already.

Not really a fan of McKibben, he's a slow scrum half (actually, it's very similar to the way Laidlaws playing at the moment, he's just slightly wider).

I see that John Houston is away to the 7s and i know it won't be the last of the Edinburgh players moving to the setup.

George Carlin wrote:

DrTreasure wrote:That's what I thought but story very similar to Maitland and I wondered if, at 27, not called into the australian training squad and the waratahs signing nick Phipps for next year and burgess returning to Melboune he my well be convinced by a move now. Having seen him play I think he would add a lot and push for Scotland. He is quick, physical, aggressive and a competent goal kicker.

Hopefully Lineen is all over that mo-fo already.

If so, he'll probably go to Glasgow. We'll more likely get McConnell from them instead. We don't allow quality signings at Edinburgh.

I would be extremely surprised if McKibbon came. We've talked about it on here before and someone put a link to an article where he said he had no idea where the speculation came from and he was fully focussed on trying to play for Australia. Give him another year of not getting picked though and he might see what has happened with Maitland and be tempted...

I've seen him play a few times and, although he is a good player, he's no world beater and wouldn't' suddenly revolutionise us into a team of world beaters. However when our options are Pyrgos or Kennedy he would be great back up to Laidlaw / first choice.

Whether he wants to move from sunny Australia to pishin doon Edinburgh is another question...

I think Edinburgh has quite a few things in it's favour.

For starters you're less likely to get bitten but some horrible creature and catch a nasty disease, unless you shop in the Gyle Centre.

Nothing wrong with the Gyle - it is like the Dubai mall in comparison to St James centre!

We won't be seeing McKibbin at Edinburgh or Scotland this year, he's still got another year to run on his contract at the Tahs. Still has ambitions to play for oz after sitting on the bench for them against Wales.

The other scrum half at the Tahs is a more likely signing Grayson Hart, played for the Blues as well. Only about 23/24, good physical scrum half with a sharp pass on him, different style to laidlaw and the others we have.
Now the Tahs have signed phipps Hart will probably be looking to move on.

Scottish?

yep scottish qualified, not sure whether its a parent or grand parent though. Chris Cusiter played for his team to get fitness before the last world cup and Cus raved about him afterwards.

He's also the nephew of the ex all blacks coach John Hart.

Shotgun for Edinburgh then!

I think it's fair to say Edinburgh are over due a big name signing that is actually any good.

No doubt Glasgow will sign yet another superstar winger and blindside though and we'll be stuck with another 2nd row from the championship...(not that I'm bitter!)

Yep - sounds promising. When you see the momentum that Glasgow get from Matawalu, and teams like Leicester and Quins get from Youngs and Care, the importance of a opt quality quick attacking scrum half becomes apparent, particularly when you consider that Edinburgh have some decent attacking outside backs, and a top class openside.

When you compare this season to the HC games last season, the striking difference is the speed and offloading, thus creating good front foot ball. At times against Connacht we were painfully slow to move the ball from the ruck.

I think were fawning over Mckibben on reputation rather than ability. Hes really nothing special, and struggled to hold down the shirt against Pretorius last season who is a one trick pony, being that he scores tries, but his basics are not good.

I dont think we need to be signing someone in the scrumhalf position, its just going to end up like the fly half position. Weve got Kennedy, metro-two-dads and Glashan likely singing up in the near future, these guys are just going to get unnecessarily delayed by a couple of seasons.

Imperialbigdave wrote: metro-two-dads

Metro-two-dads!! Love it.

I think he'll turn out to be a pretty decent scrum half. Quite quick as well, having played 15 before. I agree that scrum half isn't at all a priority. Way down the list.

Number one issue is the back row. We are in trouble next season unless we can get at least top quality back row signing.

Be interesting if this guy does well

Edinburgh Rugby have invited 2012 RBS Premiership player of the season Richie McIver to train with the squad and provide back-row cover for the remainder of the season.

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/edinburgh-news/4742-dundee-specimen-invited-to-training

He's a big lad!

Jeez - north of 18 stone and 6ft 5 - unit!

Why has it taken so long to dig up this bloke!? We've had all sorts in our back row this season - including locks at 6 and two opensides on the flanks at varying stages.

Anyone know this guys preferred position? I'm hoping the answer is 6.

Lets hope its more than just a trial.

Well, let's just hope he can play rugby. It's all good and well being big, but hopefully he'll have a bit more to him than that.

He can go straight into the squad as far as I'm concerned. I see no point in having two locks on the bench. Cox is never, and never will be, an acceptable option at 6. I'd far rather this new lad is given a chance - afterall, we've little to play for now.

After a quick scran at Dundee's website, it appears he plays 6 and 8, has 10 tries for the season, and i'd imagine he must be able to play a bit if he was player of the premiership last season. He also seems to have come from nowhere and worked his way up into the Dundee team, so id imagine hes got a good attitude as well.

Would be good to hear from someone who has seen him play! That Gala guy mentioned earlier in this thread looked a good player so this guy must be even better to have beaten him to player of the year.

Well I'm pleased he's on the radar of Edinburgh. It's an absolute gift if there's a good Scottish young(ish) player out there in a key position who would be relatively cheap. Not a gift we can overlook.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Nothing wrong with the Gyle - it is like the Dubai mall in comparison to St James centre!

I was in the Dubai Mall at the weekend. All the St Jimmy's needs is a couple of Breguet stores, a 170 foot aquarium and a general intolerance to people wearing swimsuits whilst shopping and there's practically no difference between them. They're probably already there on that last point.

Glad the club players are getting a chance to see if they can make it at pro level, it's a great motivator for all in the club game I would imagine. Watching the Melrose 7s at the weekend a number of club players looked potentially pretty good ;Grant Anderson from Ayr to mention just one

Majestic83 wrote:yep scottish qualified, not sure whether its a parent or grand parent though. Chris Cusiter played for his team to get fitness before the last world cup and Cus raved about him afterwards.

He's also the nephew of the ex all blacks coach John Hart.

Was this when Cus trained with Sydney clubs? Good knowledge, Maj.

Imperialbigdave wrote:After a quick scran at Dundee's website, it appears he plays 6 and 8, has 10 tries for the season, and i'd imagine he must be able to play a bit if he was player of the premiership last season. He also seems to have come from nowhere and worked his way up into the Dundee team, so id imagine hes got a good attitude as well.

Are you sure that we don't just want a loose forward called Richie Mc....?

George Carlin wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:After a quick scran at Dundee's website, it appears he plays 6 and 8, has 10 tries for the season, and i'd imagine he must be able to play a bit if he was player of the premiership last season. He also seems to have come from nowhere and worked his way up into the Dundee team, so id imagine hes got a good attitude as well.

Are you sure that we don't just want a loose forward called Richie Mc....?

Can you imagine McCaw having to play with the Rabo refs!? He'd run rings around them.

Anyway - he'd just end up as cover for Ross Rennie....

Jeez that would be carnage!

How was the ref on Friday considering he was reffing his first game ever at this level?

I thought he was ok to be fair.

His weakness was policing the offside line, but I always think that touch judges should really be helping out with that.

He also bottled a clear yellow card when Connacht killed the ball after a sustained Edinburgh attack, but I think that's because they already had someone in the sin bin at the time, so he stuck with just a talking to.

But generally I thought he reffed well. He was tough at the breakdown, and didn't bottle it at the scrum with endless re-sets. Edinburgh were well on top and were awarded with penalties (which we invariably kicked at the sticks rather than going for a reset or kicking to the corner).

One of the better performances I've seen this season, so pretty good effort for a first game.

MacKnocked-on wrote:Glad the club players are getting a chance to see if they can make it at pro level, it's a great motivator for all in the club game I would imagine. Watching the Melrose 7s at the weekend a number of club players looked potentially pretty good ;Grant Anderson from Ayr to mention just one

Yea, Grant Anderson was good, and I didnt realise Jericevich had moved to Ayr. Was really surprising when Glasgow picked up Pyrgos ahead of him a few seasons back.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Jeez - north of 18 stone and 6ft 5 - unit!

Why has it taken so long to dig up this bloke!? We've had all sorts in our back row this season - including locks at 6 and two opensides on the flanks at varying stages.

Anyone know this guys preferred position? I'm hoping the answer is 6.

Yeah his normal position is No 8 but can play 6 too. He is a bit of a beast to play against and takes some bringing down.
Great ball carrier but puts in the hard graft too. Played against him and watched him play and been impressed on each occasion.

Talking off other club players making the step up I think Jerecevich definitely deserves a shot, very skillful and intelligent player
who is a good passer and can rough it up as well, his defence is really solid too. Also a very good goal kicker.

Also was impressed with Grant Anderson and surprised he still hasn't been given a shot at a higher up level.
Murray Douglas at Aberdeen has been impressive all season and again for a big 2nd row did well at the Melrose 7s.

Well, if we are going to be ignoring these players, we'd better not be doing so with a bunch of NSQ journeymen.

Looks like King is going to be off at the end of the season. I always rated him, and if it hadnt been for the rise of Matt Scott last season, he wouldve cemented himself in the 12 shirt and maybe kicked on and done more.

While Atigas beginning to come good, At any rate id rather have this.

Where did you see that? He's looked good when he's played, problem is he's always injured!

Looks like we'll need a couple of centres then - grove and Taylor please!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Where did you see that? He's looked good when he's played, problem is he's always injured!

Looks like we'll need a couple of centres then - grove and Taylor please!

the video link in my post would suggest hes looking for a new contract. Usually the case when these crop up with their agents mentioned in the video.

Im pretty sure his contract is up too.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Where did you see that? He's looked good when he's played, problem is he's always injured!

Looks like we'll need a couple of centres then - grove and Taylor please!

Would love it if we got Grove but think he still has a year or so on his contract at Worcester. Definitely a player
who is underestimated by the scotland coaches and for me should have been at 13 in the six nations. Great set of
hands on him and very good in defence and also a great guy who works hard in training.
Not sure how long Taylors contract is at Sarries.

Another possibility for a spot from what i am hearing in Australia is Lachlan Mitchell, the rebels centre/wing. Scottish mother,
played for Wasps previously and his contract runs out at the end of the super xv. From what i have heard he is keen to play
in Europe again and has aspirations of playing international rugby still despite being over looked by Robbie Deans.

Two home grown centres i'd look at for centre spots for the future are Robbie Fergusson of Ayr/scot u20 and Chris Auld Gala/scot u20
both been in good form. Robbie is very creative and has lots of pace, when i have seen him play similar style of play to James O'Connor.
Can play right across the backline from 10 to 15 but probably his best position is 12 or 13.

Chris Auld also in good form, not seen as much of him this season but the games i have he has looked very solid, good in defence and carries
the ball well.