Out with the old, in with the new at Edinburgh

by cp10 Tue 09 Apr 2013, 12:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

Former Wasps & QPR boss appointed MD

Davies seems to have a good CV with experience in rugby. Also has experience in "building" stadiums.

It'll be interesting to hear Wasps/QPR fans view of him.

by **RDW** Fri 19 Apr 2013, 7:15 pm

While we're waiting, Simon Taylor has been released by Bath...

by **RDW** Fri 19 Apr 2013, 7:16 pm

Jack Cuthbert too, but Glasgow can have him!

by GLove39 Fri 19 Apr 2013, 7:27 pm

Ohhh, wonder if Taylor would fancy rejoining?
Mmmm, just imagine a backline of Francis, Atiga & Cuthbert!!!

by **RDW** Fri 19 Apr 2013, 7:57 pm

Edinburgh doing pretty well - shame I can't see it anywhere!!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 19 Apr 2013, 8:32 pm

GLove39 wrote:Ohhh, wonder if Taylor would fancy rejoining?
Mmmm, just imagine a backline of Francis, Atiga & Cuthbert!!!

Sssshhhhhh, GLove, fES rates Cuthbert - he's got 29 AP starts don't you know Whistle

by **RDW** Fri 19 Apr 2013, 8:35 pm

Here's the Matt Scott try - Visser finally does something!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ2MHsaTo3k

by GLove39 Fri 19 Apr 2013, 8:52 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
GLove39 wrote:Ohhh, wonder if Taylor would fancy rejoining?
Mmmm, just imagine a backline of Francis, Atiga & Cuthbert!!!

Sssshhhhhh, GLove, fES rates Cuthbert - he's got 29 AP starts don't you know

Not to mention he's a capped internationalist with a 100% winning record...

by MacKnocked-on Fri 19 Apr 2013, 9:08 pm

Mcmillan, Cuthbert and Taylor have been released. I've a feeling that Cuthbert may well be a possible signing. What about this Glenn Dickson that Northampton have signed, Otago standoff from Dunedin, sounds like he may be Scots qualified to me,maybe could have had him instead of Francis?

by **RDW** Fri 19 Apr 2013, 9:22 pm

Edinburgh pumped 28 - 10

by Janecory Fri 19 Apr 2013, 9:32 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Edinburgh pumped 28 - 10

30-10
Even winning 10-0 they were
Never in it !
Rubbish again !!!

by MacKnocked-on Fri 19 Apr 2013, 9:35 pm

Edinburgh are rank, serious clearout required now. To all the folk saying Cuthbert is duff, is he actually worse than what Edinburgh currently have? Doubt it, and he could be the sort of player who improves like Murchie has at Glasgow. Edinburgh simply don't seem to have the same quality of young player that Glasgow have, there's going to have to be some very clever recruitment over the summer, Lineen's contact book will be well used hopefully.

by **RDW** Fri 19 Apr 2013, 9:41 pm

Sounds like we had lots of chances - and spent plenty time in their 22, just couldn't finish it. Story of our season!

by Imperialbigdave Fri 19 Apr 2013, 9:46 pm

I cant believe the cheapest season ticket for us costs more than the cheapest season ticket for glasgow. What is the justification for that?

I can see Stevie Scott getting the job, another in the long line of Edinburgh coaches who were fired from their previous appointments. Only one of them was actually a success.

by funnyExiledScot Fri 19 Apr 2013, 10:00 pm

What a crap result!

No chance of scott and hodge getting the permanent role. They have failed to improve us.

Grrrrrr

At least glasgow were good.

by **RDW** Fri 19 Apr 2013, 10:17 pm

I certainly don't think there should be any Edinburgh Lions at this rate, barring some injuries. Matt Scott has stood out well but lets face it who would have noticed?

by Imperialbigdave Fri 19 Apr 2013, 10:34 pm

I cant see us retaining him once his contracts up unless serious improvement is made. Hes too good for this club.

by **RDW** Sat 20 Apr 2013, 9:33 am

Hahaha - Brendan 'chainsaw' Laney is a pundit at the Crusaders V Highlanders game and is said to be a former Highlanders Winger!

by funnyExiledScot Sat 20 Apr 2013, 9:57 am

Lightening!

by **George Carlin** Sat 20 Apr 2013, 1:40 pm

Oh god - this looked awful on the 'lowlights'. What is going on?

I hope that they're brave enough to have the clear out that they need to have and give a new coach some proper raw material to work with.

by 123456789 Sat 20 Apr 2013, 3:07 pm

On the "To Go" list:
Jacobsen
Yapp
Perry-Parker
Francis
S. Visser
Penn
Atiga

Already going:
Talei
Rees
Ford (probably)

I think they need too replace these guys with Scottish qualified players from the Super 15, players from the clubs and EDPs.

I think Kennedy will be second choice next year and Hidalgo-Clyne should be promoted to cover third choice and to cover for injuries and internationals. He looked very good for the u20s during the six nations.

At least one fly-half needs to be signed this summer, Tom Heathcote and Tommy Allan need to be looked at and if they aren't possible signings then they should look at signing a proven fly-half from elsewhere.

At Centre they're pretty strong with Matt Scott at 12 and Cairns and De Luca at 13, also Leonard can cover 12 and Fife can cover centre too, but maybe another centre from the club system would be a good idea.

New wingers will be necessary, Lee Jones has been a waste of space this season and needs to be on his last warning, Penn and Sep Visser are useless although Tim Visser and Fife are decent players. Surely there must be a super 15 winger with Scottish links, Cuthbert should be a non-starter I saw him against Quins and he was useless.

Full-back is well covered with Tom Brown and Tonks so that's not an issue.

Number 8 is covered by Denton and MacInally but re-signing Taylor may be a good idea as he is experienced and actually cares about the club rather than a random lacklustre Championship player.
Flanker is reasonably covered with all the number 8s covering blindside and the best openside is Europe and Roddy Grant as cover.

Second Row is very weak, Gilchrist is good, Cox is average and I haven't seen much of the South African guy, Perry-Parker is useless. I think maybe Campbell at Glasgow should be looked at seeing as he always seemed pretty good but has dropped down to fifth choice now Gray and Swinson have joined.

Prop isn't covered very well at all, maybe we should throw a huge contract at Adam Jones but I doubt he'd want to leave the Ospreys and if he did I expect it would be to a French team rather than the load of shoite that is Edinburgh.

Hooker will be very bare soon if Ford leaves, maybe Gerwyn Price should be looked at, he played well for Glasgow and is being ignored by the Welsh but I think Glasgow have expressed an interest in signing him full-time and I know who I joined.

I think the most important factor of all would be a coach, the two who've come in aren't any better. Maybe McGeechan would like one last hurrah or perhaps a new coaching team made up of club coaches.

by reallybored Sat 20 Apr 2013, 4:07 pm

Edinburgh have a soft under-belly, need to sort out the front-five.

Out:

Jacobson
Ford (hopefully to a good AP or French club)
Perry-Parker
Cox
Turnbull
Talei
Leck
Rees
Houston
King
Atiga
Penn
S Visser

In:

G Mercer (get him involved, Edinburgh's defence is woeful)

E Murray from Worcester (shift Cross to LH & control Rev's game time)
S Wright from Newcastle (long-term signing)
A Sinclair from Perpignan (long-term signing)
F McKenzie from Sale (covers 4/6, does grunt work & athletic)
T Heathcote from Bath (first choice fly-half)
G Morrison from Glasgow (rash but more effective than Houston or Atiga)
J Cuthbert from Bath (versatile, still young & available)

Hooker is an issue once Ford leaves, Walker looked alright and Lawrie has played well but not confident with either being first choice. Anyone in the Premiership look like they could make the step up?

Props - Cross, Murray, Yapp, Hislop, Allan, Wright
Hookers - ????, Lawrie, Walker
Locks - Gilchrist, Westhuizen, McKenzie, McAlpine, Sinclair
Backrow - Rennie, Denton, McInally, Basilaia, Grant, McKenzie, Watson
Half backs - Laidlaw, Kennedy, Heathcote, Leonard, Black, Francis
Centres - Scott, De Luca, Cairns, Morrison, Cuthbert
Back three - Visser, Tonks, Fife, Walker, Brown, Farndale, Jones, Cuthbert

1 - Cross
2 - Lawrie
3 - Murray
4 - Westhuizen
5 - Gilchrist
6 - McKenzie
7 - Rennie
8 - Denton
9 - Laidlaw
10 - Heathcote
11 - Visser
12 - Scott
13 - De Luca
14 - Walker
15 - Tonks

16 - Walker
17 - Yapp
18 - Nell
19 - McAlpine
20 - Basilaia
21 - Kennedy
22 - Leonard
23 - Fife

by 123456789 Sat 20 Apr 2013, 4:30 pm

reallybored wrote:Edinburgh have a soft under-belly, need to sort out the front-five.

Out:

Jacobson
Ford (hopefully to a good AP or French club)
Perry-Parker
Cox
Turnbull
Talei
Leck
Rees
Houston
King
Atiga
Penn
S Visser

In:

G Mercer (get him involved, Edinburgh's defence is woeful)

E Murray from Worcester (shift Cross to LH & control Rev's game time)
S Wright from Newcastle (long-term signing)
A Sinclair from Perpignan (long-term signing)
F McKenzie from Sale (covers 4/6, does grunt work & athletic)
T Heathcote from Bath (first choice fly-half)
G Morrison from Glasgow (rash but more effective than Houston or Atiga)
J Cuthbert from Bath (versatile, still young & available)

Hooker is an issue once Ford leaves, Walker looked alright and Lawrie has played well but not confident with either being first choice. Anyone in the Premiership look like they could make the step up?

Props - Cross, Murray, Yapp, Hislop, Allan, Wright
Hookers - ????, Lawrie, Walker
Locks - Gilchrist, Westhuizen, McKenzie, McAlpine, Sinclair
Backrow - Rennie, Denton, McInally, Basilaia, Grant, McKenzie, Watson
Half backs - Laidlaw, Kennedy, Heathcote, Leonard, Black, Francis
Centres - Scott, De Luca, Cairns, Morrison, Cuthbert
Back three - Visser, Tonks, Fife, Walker, Brown, Farndale, Jones, Cuthbert

1 - Cross
2 - Lawrie
3 - Murray
4 - Westhuizen
5 - Gilchrist
6 - McKenzie
7 - Rennie
8 - Denton
9 - Laidlaw
10 - Heathcote
11 - Visser
12 - Scott
13 - De Luca
14 - Walker
15 - Tonks

16 - Walker
17 - Yapp
18 - Nell
19 - McAlpine
20 - Basilaia
21 - Kennedy
22 - Leonard
23 - Fife

he's also crap, he has the turning circle of a cruise liner, and the only player I've seen him tackle is someone on his own team. The only reason he was capped was because he played for Bath

by MacKnocked-on Sat 20 Apr 2013, 4:42 pm

Austin Healy has just been saying on ESPN how Heathcote turned the game for Bath against Leicester this afternoon. Don't think he'll be leaving Bath, looks like he'll be their first choice now Donald is leaving. This is no bad thing as he'll be getting plenty of rugby and will free up room for somebody else at Edinburgh. I think Heathcote has it in him to overtake both Jackson and Weir as Scotland no1 pretty soon, playing for Edinburgh may not be a positive experience for him.

by **RDW** Sat 20 Apr 2013, 4:47 pm

I really really REALLY hope Cuthbert doesn't sign for Edinburgh - there's a reason Bath are letting him go.

I would welcome Taylor and Heathcoat with open arms though.

by 123456789 Sat 20 Apr 2013, 4:51 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I really really REALLY hope Cuthbert doesn't sign for Edinburgh - there's a reason Bath are letting him go.

I would welcome Taylor and Heathcoat with open arms though.

Would Heathcote want to move away from his home and his club when there first choice is about to leave and his replacement is unproven or would he want to go to a team that is pretty dire.
One of the most confusing things is that Edinburgh had a very good first choice team last year and that seems to have disappeared - Jacobsen has lost interest, Rennie's been injured, Denton's been off form, Blair's left, laidlaw's covering 9, De Luca's been banned or off form, Jones has been terrible and Brown's been displaced by Tonks. Depth was always the issue with Edinburgh and they've gone the wrong way about finding it and are suffering now as a result.

by reallybored Sat 20 Apr 2013, 4:52 pm

Haven't seen him play this season to be honest but what I saw a couple seasons back and he looked promising. A change of club and environment could help him, there have been worse signings;

https://www.youtube.com/#/watch?v=fKhQ0-yTBds&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DfKhQ0-yTBds

It's stunning how poor the Edinburgh squad is compared to the Glagow squad. Glasgow's 2nd choice XV would probably put 30 points on the current Edinburgh team.

by **RDW** Sat 20 Apr 2013, 4:57 pm

George Ford has signed for bath and his dad is in the board - heathcoat might want to get out if there.....hopefully!

by CraigS1874 Sat 20 Apr 2013, 5:04 pm

I know everyone claims we need SQ players however with weir jackson and heathcote all playing every week for glasgow and bath, we should look at bringing in a foreign fly half. Harry Leonard is the future but he needs time to develop so I would suggest we either look for an experienced player or a S15 "project player" who could qualify in 3 years. I agree we need to get rid of most of the dead wood in the squad but to be honest i dont see the point of buying players like nikki walker. He is just an older version of jack cuthbert in my opinion.....

On the coaching side of things some people have told me that scott and hodge are likely to stay on( the players like them) next year as coaches but a new head coach will be brought in. So the players that we buy will probably depend on who this is.

by Imperialbigdave Sat 20 Apr 2013, 5:08 pm

As for Hookers, young george Turner is an absolute beast in the loose. Hes recovered from his long term injury and was on the macphail. I wouldve loved to have seen him introduced at this point, but sadly with a coach thats trying to earn a contract, I cant see him taking a punt on a youngster.

by reallybored Sat 20 Apr 2013, 5:17 pm

Redpath as head coach?

by Imperialbigdave Sat 20 Apr 2013, 5:25 pm

reallybored wrote:Redpath as head coach?

Redpath and Scott didnt exactly have a successful partnership earlier in the season. I would say no.

by **George Carlin** Sun 21 Apr 2013, 3:06 pm

Cuthbert has a laughably weak skillset for a professional back. He wouldn't last 10 minutes in the Super 15 and we have to strive for better than limited squad players. That's how horribly average players like Penn and SVisser got in there in the first place.

Very good post from ReallyBored - I agree that only a clearout to that extent is actually going to make a difference. In retrospect, it was a shamobolic, uncohesive year from Edinburgh. We only have 2 professional sides and apart from Matt Scott and Gilchrist I cannot recall another SQ player that came on this year as a result of the Edinburgh system. Not good enough.

Lineen should be in South Africa right now looking at young, hungry hookers like Jacques du Toit and Fred Kirsten and big young locks like Jannie Stander. There's absolutely plenty of talent out there - we just need to stop looking in our own backyard and back ourselves to spot talent.

I'll say this for Toonie, he was quick to grab Matawalu from the Navy club once he saw his Sevens form.

by funnyExiledScot Sun 21 Apr 2013, 6:29 pm

I'm not massively keen on Cuthbert, but he's young, SQ and certainly wouldn't be the worst squad player to have graced the Edinburgh squad.

I'm much keener on getting a couple of seasons from Simon Taylor. A proper warrior with Edinburgh rugby in his blood.

Agree with GC - a major scouting operation is required. A couple of hard nosed forwards needed in particular, although as well as scouting hard, we should not lose sight of our own backyard either - the clubs sides must have one or two that can step up, and cost us very little.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:19 pm

The bath fans arent sorry to see Cuthbert go. They dont rate him much, and im inclined to agree. They see him as a poor mans Banahan, which isnt exactly high praise.

As for Taylor, great player in his prime, but is he going to add much nowdays? Hes lost a lot of pace and power and is now regarded as a utility forward, whos solid but not spectacular, and Bath want a bit more. Hes also a very reserved and quiet guy, so I cant see him contributing much to the leadership of the team. All he will be doing is taking up a place for Mcinally and Denton

by **RDW** Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:47 pm

I think Taylor will be a great squad player to have. I don't expect him to be as good as he used to be but I'd much rather have him playing when the Scotland guys are away than a journeyman foreigner!

Whether his heart is still in it is a different question.

Really don't want Cuthbert.

by CraigS1874 Sun 21 Apr 2013, 8:22 pm

would like to see taylor back but i think he would cost to much just to have as cover during the internationals. I wonder if we will steal any of glasgows 6/8 because with vernon, harley, wilson, strauss and ashe all playing there next year some players might want more game time. Anyone know who is likely to be on the EDP next year ?

by funnyExiledScot Mon 22 Apr 2013, 1:33 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think Taylor will be a great squad player to have. I don't expect him to be as good as he used to be but I'd much rather have him playing when the Scotland guys are away than a journeyman foreigner!

Agreed. I don't think he'll be taking Denton's number 8 jersey, and if he does, then it'll mean that Denton has continued with his "poncing around" approach to rugby, and thoroughly deserves to be dropped.

I don't think Taylor's salary will be a big issue - it's not like he'll be able to command a huge pay packet elsewhere.

He's quiet and studious off the park, but 100% committed on it. I've yet to see a Scotman hit rucks as hard as he did in his heyday, and judging by the last couple of Bath games I've seen him play, still does. He's basically the opposite of Al Kellock. All action and no talk.

Still, if he comes it should only be in a squad role, and should not be at the expense of a proper back row signing, a brutal, physical and effective number 6.

The same goes for Cuthbert. If he comes I want him to be coming effectively as a Sep Visser replacement (i.e. a squad player), rather than a highly paid first team regular. If he won't come on that basis, then let him find alternative employment.

These guys should be bargains, and shouldn't eat up too much budget. If not, don't sign them.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 22 Apr 2013, 2:42 pm

I think Simon Taylor still keeps a couple of joint business ventures in Edinburgh, so it is a logical destination for him. Think the comparison versus Kellock is a little too strong (thought Big Al did well against Evans and AW Jones on Fri), but i see what you're getting at. Not sure you'll get much out of Cuthbert tho - he was over-promoted to Scotland by Robinson, way out of his depth. Not sure he would provide much more than S Visser or Penn, and Embra would be better served with bringing thru a few of the talented fliers around (Farndale, Fife, Fleming, etc)

by funnyExiledScot Mon 22 Apr 2013, 2:51 pm

I think Fife is a given for next season. He'll be competing against Nikki Walker. Fife is currently the best right wing in the squad.

I want Farndale back and fit next season, he'll certainly add something when Visser isn't available to play. Strong running left winger, and back at the last JWC he played in, was the best young back Scotland had.....

Agree that these guys have more promise that Cuthbert. Still, I don't want to see him fall away completely. Hopefully he'll be able to get regular rugby somewhere.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 22 Apr 2013, 3:23 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:I think Simon Taylor still keeps a couple of joint business ventures in Edinburgh, so it is a logical destination for him. Think the comparison versus Kellock is a little too strong (thought Big Al did well against Evans and AW Jones on Fri), but i see what you're getting at. Not sure you'll get much out of Cuthbert tho - he was over-promoted to Scotland by Robinson, way out of his depth. Not sure he would provide much more than S Visser or Penn, and Embra would be better served with bringing thru a few of the talented fliers around (Farndale, Fife, Fleming, etc)

He still can't defend the fringes of rucks though, 2 weeks on the bounce Kellock has let players sneak in at the fringes.

His ruck inspection is getting worse. Ryder and Swinson should start vs. Connacht.

Onto Edinburgh, I’ve been lurking on this thread trying to prepare a measured response.

What I want, is ambition.

It was only a season ago where Edinburgh lit up the ERC, fighting out of a tough group with impressive multi try victories over London Irish, Racing and Cardiff. The run continued by beating Toulouse against all the odds before bravely succumbing to Ulster.

Compare that to this season. A season devoid of passion, pride, energy and effective tactics. Where has the fluid multi-phase rugby gone that saw Edinburgh into the ERC semi-final? The players are the same… (with the exception of Mike Blair) but I hardly think Rees is not capable of playing that brand of rugby…

Clearly Bradley had lost the players and they were either unable or unwilling to play to his game plan and as a result we have been frankly an embarrassment. Pride and Passion are a big part of Rugby. Look at the Welsh national team, and more closely at how the players play for the Ospreys, Dragons, Scarlets and the Blues. When they come together for Wales, something comes out of them. Passion, pride, guts and determination. When they rotate back to their clubs… they aren’t the same guys.

Edinburgh are the opposite. It’s not as if we have bad players, (except Atiga, Francis and perhaps Lee Jones, Sepp Visser, Penn who?) we have some real world class talent in the squad. Guys like Visser, Denton, Rennie, Laidlaw, Tonks, Scott and others. We have the spine of a good team but as others have pointed out strength and depth is an issue.

For me signing no. 1 would be Tam Heathcoate. He got a really raw deal when he was put in a shambles of a situation by Robinson. With Weir injured he’ll almost certainly get a shot in the Summer with Scotland when we go to the SA hosted tournament. I would like to see him play at Edinburgh and build a relationship with Matt Scott. They could be a potent combination.

No.2 signing would be Eck Grove. Had a torrid time in Edinburgh a couple of seasons ago because our backline was saturated with Journeymen centres. He has been great for Worcester and would add some defensive steel and some quick attacking hands and feet.

No.3 Signing… a big nasty loosehead. I don’t know were we could dig one up from but we need a Ryan Grant (should never have let him go to be honest). A dynamic monster of a player who can mix it up in the loose but as tough as Granite in the scrum. Grant was truly excellent against the Ospreys.

No. 4 signing lets try and get Simon Taylor back. I can’t say anything more than FES and others have said, and he could be closer to manage his rather overpriced Hannover Street pub.

That’s my tuppence anyway. We could have a 1 s t team next year that looks like this :

1. Big Scary loosehead / Yapp / Niven
2. Alun Walker (lets build him now so we have our own MacArthur Style hooker) / Lawrie / Titteral
3. WP Nel / Cross
4. Gilchrist / Parker
5. Cox / VDW / McAlpine
6. Denton / Basilia
7. Rennie / Grant
8. Taylor / McInally
9. Laidlaw / Rees
10. Heathcoate / Hunter/ Leonard
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Grove / NDL
14. Fife/Brown
15. Tonks

Let’s get the ball to this lot and play a high tempo game and back to the running rugby that has become something of a distant memory for the Edinburgh fans.

We might also need to go shopping for a full back….

by GLove39 Mon 22 Apr 2013, 4:41 pm

We really need a dynamic scrum half. Rees is heading off to the Dragon's isn't he? And much as I love Laidlaw he snipes around the fringes far to rarely.
Look at the influence Matawalu has at Glasgow. Don't suppose Niko has an equally talented brother?

by Imperialbigdave Mon 22 Apr 2013, 4:53 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

No.3 Signing… a big nasty loosehead. I don’t know were we could dig one up from but we need a Ryan Grant (should never have let him go to be honest). A dynamic monster of a player who can mix it up in the loose but as tough as Granite in the scrum. Grant was truly excellent against the Ospreys.

I know its not really the point, but Grant was pish when he was at Edinburgh. It gets on my nerves every time a I read an interview with him where he winges about the lack of opportunities he got towards the end of his spell with us. He got less and less opportunities because when he was given them in the earlier days, he didnt take them! He looked like many Edinburgh players look like now; uninterested. Difference was, when he was at the club, we were actually a good side, with a core of hard working players, so the whole bad culture argument doesnt sit. I dont doubt that Glasgow have brought out the best in him, and that their coaching has made him a better player, but part of it is down to his attitude changing. I get the impression he realised he didnt give 100% when he was with us (as some of our current lot would do well to admit) and has bucked up to make the most of what was a last chance saloon for him.

It just grinds my gears when Edinburgh get painted as the bad guys/fools for letting him go. While hes not lying about effectively getting shut out, I dont think hes 100% honest about his time either. Ive seen interviews that imply he thinks Robinson just didnt like him, but if that were the case, would he have gotten into the scotland set up? He really wasnt making a statement on the pitch, and while he was not as bad as Gilding, he wasnt at the standard we wanted.

by actionman Mon 22 Apr 2013, 5:02 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:I think Simon Taylor still keeps a couple of joint business ventures in Edinburgh, so it is a logical destination for him. Think the comparison versus Kellock is a little too strong (thought Big Al did well against Evans and AW Jones on Fri), but i see what you're getting at. Not sure you'll get much out of Cuthbert tho - he was over-promoted to Scotland by Robinson, way out of his depth. Not sure he would provide much more than S Visser or Penn, and Embra would be better served with bringing thru a few of the talented fliers around (Farndale, Fife, Fleming, etc)

He still can't defend the fringes of rucks though, 2 weeks on the bounce Kellock has let players sneak in at the fringes.

His ruck inspection is getting worse. Ryder and Swinson should start vs. Connacht.

Onto Edinburgh, I’ve been lurking on this thread trying to prepare a measured response.

What I want, is ambition.

It was only a season ago where Edinburgh lit up the ERC, fighting out of a tough group with impressive multi try victories over London Irish, Racing and Cardiff. The run continued by beating Toulouse against all the odds before bravely succumbing to Ulster.

Compare that to this season. A season devoid of passion, pride, energy and effective tactics. Where has the fluid multi-phase rugby gone that saw Edinburgh into the ERC semi-final? The players are the same… (with the exception of Mike Blair) but I hardly think Rees is not capable of playing that brand of rugby…

Clearly Bradley had lost the players and they were either unable or unwilling to play to his game plan and as a result we have been frankly an embarrassment. Pride and Passion are a big part of Rugby. Look at the Welsh national team, and more closely at how the players play for the Ospreys, Dragons, Scarlets and the Blues. When they come together for Wales, something comes out of them. Passion, pride, guts and determination. When they rotate back to their clubs… they aren’t the same guys.

Edinburgh are the opposite. It’s not as if we have bad players, (except Atiga, Francis and perhaps Lee Jones, Sepp Visser, Penn who?) we have some real world class talent in the squad. Guys like Visser, Denton, Rennie, Laidlaw, Tonks, Scott and others. We have the spine of a good team but as others have pointed out strength and depth is an issue.

For me signing no. 1 would be Tam Heathcoate. He got a really raw deal when he was put in a shambles of a situation by Robinson. With Weir injured he’ll almost certainly get a shot in the Summer with Scotland when we go to the SA hosted tournament. I would like to see him play at Edinburgh and build a relationship with Matt Scott. They could be a potent combination.

No.2 signing would be Eck Grove. Had a torrid time in Edinburgh a couple of seasons ago because our backline was saturated with Journeymen centres. He has been great for Worcester and would add some defensive steel and some quick attacking hands and feet.

No.3 Signing… a big nasty loosehead. I don’t know were we could dig one up from but we need a Ryan Grant (should never have let him go to be honest). A dynamic monster of a player who can mix it up in the loose but as tough as Granite in the scrum. Grant was truly excellent against the Ospreys.

No. 4 signing lets try and get Simon Taylor back. I can’t say anything more than FES and others have said, and he could be closer to manage his rather overpriced Hannover Street pub.

That’s my tuppence anyway. We could have a 1 s t team next year that looks like this :

1. Big Scary loosehead / Yapp / Niven
2. Alun Walker (lets build him now so we have our own MacArthur Style hooker) / Lawrie / Titteral
3. WP Nel / Cross
4. Gilchrist / Parker
5. Cox / VDW / McAlpine
6. Denton / Basilia
7. Rennie / Grant
8. Taylor / McInally
9. Laidlaw / Rees
10. Heathcoate / Hunter/ Leonard
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Grove / NDL
14. Fife/Brown
15. Tonks

Let’s get the ball to this lot and play a high tempo game and back to the running rugby that has become something of a distant memory for the Edinburgh fans.

We might also need to go shopping for a full back….

Comical.
What a complete waste of time that was, reading that rubbish.

by Imperialbigdave Mon 22 Apr 2013, 5:04 pm

actionman wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:I think Simon Taylor still keeps a couple of joint business ventures in Edinburgh, so it is a logical destination for him. Think the comparison versus Kellock is a little too strong (thought Big Al did well against Evans and AW Jones on Fri), but i see what you're getting at. Not sure you'll get much out of Cuthbert tho - he was over-promoted to Scotland by Robinson, way out of his depth. Not sure he would provide much more than S Visser or Penn, and Embra would be better served with bringing thru a few of the talented fliers around (Farndale, Fife, Fleming, etc)

He still can't defend the fringes of rucks though, 2 weeks on the bounce Kellock has let players sneak in at the fringes.

His ruck inspection is getting worse. Ryder and Swinson should start vs. Connacht.

Onto Edinburgh, I’ve been lurking on this thread trying to prepare a measured response.

What I want, is ambition.

It was only a season ago where Edinburgh lit up the ERC, fighting out of a tough group with impressive multi try victories over London Irish, Racing and Cardiff. The run continued by beating Toulouse against all the odds before bravely succumbing to Ulster.

Compare that to this season. A season devoid of passion, pride, energy and effective tactics. Where has the fluid multi-phase rugby gone that saw Edinburgh into the ERC semi-final? The players are the same… (with the exception of Mike Blair) but I hardly think Rees is not capable of playing that brand of rugby…

Clearly Bradley had lost the players and they were either unable or unwilling to play to his game plan and as a result we have been frankly an embarrassment. Pride and Passion are a big part of Rugby. Look at the Welsh national team, and more closely at how the players play for the Ospreys, Dragons, Scarlets and the Blues. When they come together for Wales, something comes out of them. Passion, pride, guts and determination. When they rotate back to their clubs… they aren’t the same guys.

Edinburgh are the opposite. It’s not as if we have bad players, (except Atiga, Francis and perhaps Lee Jones, Sepp Visser, Penn who?) we have some real world class talent in the squad. Guys like Visser, Denton, Rennie, Laidlaw, Tonks, Scott and others. We have the spine of a good team but as others have pointed out strength and depth is an issue.

For me signing no. 1 would be Tam Heathcoate. He got a really raw deal when he was put in a shambles of a situation by Robinson. With Weir injured he’ll almost certainly get a shot in the Summer with Scotland when we go to the SA hosted tournament. I would like to see him play at Edinburgh and build a relationship with Matt Scott. They could be a potent combination.

No.2 signing would be Eck Grove. Had a torrid time in Edinburgh a couple of seasons ago because our backline was saturated with Journeymen centres. He has been great for Worcester and would add some defensive steel and some quick attacking hands and feet.

No.3 Signing… a big nasty loosehead. I don’t know were we could dig one up from but we need a Ryan Grant (should never have let him go to be honest). A dynamic monster of a player who can mix it up in the loose but as tough as Granite in the scrum. Grant was truly excellent against the Ospreys.

No. 4 signing lets try and get Simon Taylor back. I can’t say anything more than FES and others have said, and he could be closer to manage his rather overpriced Hannover Street pub.

That’s my tuppence anyway. We could have a 1 s t team next year that looks like this :

1. Big Scary loosehead / Yapp / Niven
2. Alun Walker (lets build him now so we have our own MacArthur Style hooker) / Lawrie / Titteral
3. WP Nel / Cross
4. Gilchrist / Parker
5. Cox / VDW / McAlpine
6. Denton / Basilia
7. Rennie / Grant
8. Taylor / McInally
9. Laidlaw / Rees
10. Heathcoate / Hunter/ Leonard
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Grove / NDL
14. Fife/Brown
15. Tonks

Let’s get the ball to this lot and play a high tempo game and back to the running rugby that has become something of a distant memory for the Edinburgh fans.

We might also need to go shopping for a full back….
Comical.
What a complete waste of time that was, reading that rubbish.

wether it is or isnt, care to explain why you think so?

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 22 Apr 2013, 5:07 pm

Great 1st post too mate. Welcome to the board tomato

by funnyExiledScot Mon 22 Apr 2013, 5:55 pm

Wow - always impressive when someone takes the time to register and then comes up with that.

I wonder who they actually are??

Pretty much agree with your suggestions from an Edinburgh perspective, although with a Scotland fan hat on, Heathcote may well benefit more from the expected run at 10 for Bath next season. I also think that unless Basilia can be used properly at 6, then we could use a thug in the mould of Strauss to come in as an option at 6 or 8.

Rees is also off next season (pretty sure that's confirmed), so Kennedy is the presumptive second choice 9. I pretty pleased with that. His service is sharp and he's got good pace - a nice contrasting sort of player to the more considered and tactical Laidlaw.

by bsando Mon 22 Apr 2013, 6:48 pm

"Comical.
What a complete waste of time that was, reading that rubbish." - Actionman

Firstly, that is a complete and utter insult to the real Action Man, who once said "Come on team, lets get extreme!" By extreme, he meant spring into action and beat the bad guys extreme. Not, register on a rugby forum and spring into action by posting extremely stupid and nonsensical posts.

Secondly, what is so comical? Do you have enough brain cells to formulate an actual opinion? Or can you only muster one lined insults to well respected members of 606v2?

In conclusion, perhaps you'd like like apologise to Radge and Asbo and start over. I don't hold grudges, nor does anyone else on here.

So to recap...

1) Apologise to Asbo/Radge

2) Introduce yourself

3) Explain your opinions rather than dropping obtuse remarks

thumbsup

by **RDW** Tue 23 Apr 2013, 8:13 am

Fraser McKenzie off to Newcastle with Scott Lawson and (good)Godman. Never thought about Lawson - he would have been a good experienced - yet tiny - person to have at Edinburgh.

Newcastle has become our 3rd pro team! Let's hope they get promoted...

by funnyExiledScot Tue 23 Apr 2013, 1:01 pm

Agreed - it's quite a collection of Scots they've got now.

S Lawson, Shiells, MacKenzie, Hogg, R Lawson and Godman.

Now that Sale have ditched their Scots, my allegiances transfer to Newcastle in the Aviva, and hoping that Kelly Brown performs heroically in defeat for Sarries.....

by cp10 Tue 23 Apr 2013, 2:20 pm

Edinburgh Rugby twitter wrote:
BREAKING NEWS: Club record appearance holder Allan ‘Chunk’ Jacobsen will retire from professional rugby at the end of the season.

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