Heyneke exclusive: Spies best in his position

by **Biltong** Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:06 pm

I found this on another website, thought you would enjoy it.

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has exclusively revealed to ArenaSport the reasons for Pierre Spies’s continued inclusion in the Springbok squad.

Following the announcement of the first Springbok squad of 2013, for the June Test series against Italy, Samoa and Scotland, Heyneke Meyer has confirmed that Pierre Spies is the best player in his position in South Africa… and possibly the best in the world. Ever.

“This group is by no means a final one for the June Tests and could still change in the coming months,” says Meyer, “but what I can commit to is that Pierre Spies will always be a part of the Springbok setup, certainly as long as I’m in charge.”

Ignoring the merits of the Kings Jacques Engelbrecht, the excellent season of the Cheetahs Lappies Labuschagne, and flat-out refusing to acknowledge the existence of Heinrich Brussow and Jesus, Meyer went on to say that Spies is probably the most important member of the Springbok squad.

“You have to understand that we need Pierre. There is no one else quite like him in South African rugby. No one in any of the other local franchises can do what he does.

Those big muscles, those strong arms, those thick, immense thighs,” sighed a clearly excited Bok coach, “they are all a necessary cog in the Bok wheel.”

When pressed, Meyer confirmed what most rugby fans suspected. “Yes, undoubtedly Pierre is the best baggage handler in South African sport.

With all that time he spends in the gym, he’s able to carry the bags of 10 squad members at one time. This allows us to save and spend wisely in other areas, like on movie nights we can now afford DStv Box Office.”

Captain Jean de Villiers added to Meyer’s comments. “Pierre is great. You can give him your togs, your formal gear and your essential tour electronic gadgets and he’ll carry them from the team bus to your hotel room. We simply can’t tour without him.”

by lostinwales Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:13 pm

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:22 pm

Hilarious. Thanks for that.

It is a real grip of mine that Spies continues to attract plaudits without ever living up to the hype.

by fa0019 Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:30 pm

He's over-rated and under-rated.

Its now fashionable to slam him but I think he's a quality player. He's earnt my respect since taking the helm at the bulls... not easy as Danie, Bakkies and Victor left/retired in the same season.

He still makes good yards and is an excellent lineout option... Outside of Croft he is the best back of the lineout operator in test rugby, perhaps on a par with Higginbottom.

If he came to Europe he would clean up in the domestic leagues.

Parisse looks flashy because he is Italys go to man. Good player sure but what does he do at SF... what has he ever done at SF, even when they had all the players.... the answer, he doesn't stand out.

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:37 pm

fa0019 wrote:He's over-rated and under-rated.

Its now fashionable to slam him but I think he's a quality player. He's earnt my respect since taking the helm at the bulls... not easy as Danie, Bakkies and Victor left/retired in the same season.

He still makes good yards and is an excellent lineout option... Outside of Croft he is the best back of the lineout operator in test rugby, perhaps on a par with Higginbottom.

If he came to Europe he would clean up in the domestic leagues.

Parisse looks flashy because he is Italys go to man. Good player sure but what does he do at SF... what has he ever done at SF, even when they had all the players.... the answer, he doesn't stand out.

He would be exposed in Europe for what he is, just a walking muscle. There are plenty of good 8s in Europe that are better than him in every way.

by fa0019 Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:40 pm

Spies cleans up in SR.... and SR > HC so what you say is doubtful.

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:47 pm

fa0019 wrote:Spies cleans up in SR.... and SR > HC so what you say is doubtful.

Ha. Fa is that the best you've got SR > HC?

Without even having to compare SR and HC its fairly clear just looking at him playing International rugby that he is way behind:

Picamoles
Parisse
Harinordiquy
Falateau
Heaslip

He is so ineffective he is clearly even the brunt of jokes in SA now too. He isnt even the best 8 in SA.

by fa0019 Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:51 pm

I'm no bulls fan and no Spies fan... but he's a quality player.

He is a standout 8 in SR... that is a fact and undeniable. Most of his critics say he performs in SR but doesn't put that into his test form.

No Bok who gets 40-50 caps is a bad player. Is he the best in the world... no, but he's no joke player either.

Faletau, Heaslip.... those guys wouldn't even have 1 bok cap had they been growing up in SA.

Tell me... have you even watched any bulls rugby in the last 2 seasons?

by **Biltong** Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:54 pm

I have to agree with Fa on the fact that SPies is not a bad player, he just doesn't warrant being called up for the Boks, he has not improved his game at all over the last 5 years and in fact prior to this season have gone backwards in my view.

He still doesn't do any grunt work, that is a fact, he isn't the best dynamic tackler, he is a very good line out exponent at the back of the line, and in open space he is most effective.

But comparing him to Vermeulan as an example, he has only got pace ahead of Vermeuelen, nothing else.

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:55 pm

fa0019 wrote:I'm no bulls fan and no Spies fan... but he's a quality player.

He is a standout 8 in SR... that is a fact and undeniable. Most of his critics say he performs in SR but doesn't put that into his test form.

No Bok who gets 40-50 caps is a bad player. Is he the best in the world... no, but he's no joke player either.

Faletau, Heaslip.... those guys wouldn't even have 1 bok cap had they been growing up in SA.

Tell me... have you even watched any bulls rugby in the last 2 seasons?

Yawn. You have no clue if Heaslip or Faletau would get a Bok cap or not. Heaslip was nominated for world player of the year in '09 so cant be all bad.

Spies might get nominated for pretend rugby player of the year.

by **Biltong** Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:57 pm

They can't they aren't eligible. Whistle

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:00 pm

Biltong wrote:They can't they aren't eligible.

Exactly, thats my point.

by fa0019 Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:05 pm

Sure they can't.... not just on being eligible but in that they wouldn't be good enough.

Vermeulen, Kankowski, Spies and Alberts are all better players. You can throw in guys from the last 4 years like Danie Russouw & Joe van Niekerk into that also (a bok favourite of mine).

by Guest Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:15 pm

On the back of what performances does Spies merit the title, best in his position?

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:16 pm

fa0019 wrote:Sure they can't.... not just on being eligible but in that they wouldn't be good enough.

Vermeulen, Kankowski, Spies and Alberts are all better players. You can throw in guys from the last 4 years like Danie Russouw & Joe van Niekerk into that also (a bok favourite of mine).

Any time Spies has played against Ireland Heaslip has got the better of him including when they came face to face on the Lions tour when Spies was anonomous as usual. He might make the Ireland bench as a dynamic impact player but for a guy of his size he isnt even that physical.

by fa0019 Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:17 pm

how many people on here can testify to seeing him actually play recently... and not just in test matches???

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:25 pm

fa0019 wrote:how many people on here can testify to seeing him actually play recently... and not just in test matches???

Not sure what difference seeing him play in a few SR rugby matches would make when he is routinely considered one of the best 8s in the world when he clearly isnt based on his performances in International rugby.

I have not seen the Bulls play yet this year but I have seen Spies play many many times for SA. Enough times to know that he wouldnt even be in the top 10 number 8 in the world.

by fa0019 Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:29 pm

Not just this season.

Since the last RWC he has been the elder statesman of the bulls and took over when Bakkies, Du Preez, Victor and Danie retired/left. They were vunerable but he dragged them to respectful results. He deserves a lot of credit for this.

I don't think he's the best No8 in SA... but he's not far off.

by CurlyOsp Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:35 pm

fa0019 wrote:
Faletau, Heaslip.... those guys wouldn't even have 1 bok cap had they been growing up in SA.

Faletau was far more influential when they came up against each other in the WC and how old was he at the time?

Pretty sure all the names mentioned would have had at least 1 cap for SA given how mediocre Spies' international from has been.

by **Biltong** Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:41 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Sure they can't.... not just on being eligible but in that they wouldn't be good enough.

Vermeulen, Kankowski, Spies and Alberts are all better players. You can throw in guys from the last 4 years like Danie Russouw & Joe van Niekerk into that also (a bok favourite of mine).

Any time Spies has played against Ireland Heaslip has got the better of him including when they came face to face on the Lions tour when Spies was anonomous as usual. He might make the Ireland bench as a dynamic impact player but for a guy of his size he isnt even that physical.

hell, I am always amazed at people making claims like that, how do you remember every game, and every player's performance over such a period.

Or is it a case of making a strong statement hoping the other guy doesn't go into his library to watch his copies of those games.

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:43 pm

Morne Steyn is still the best player to cuddle up to according to Meyer.

by **Biltong** Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:46 pm

Well Morne is a special case. Very special.

by bluestonevedder Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:47 pm

Ha, this is awesome. Nice one Biltong

by Mr Fishpaste Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:50 pm

CurlyOsp wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
Faletau, Heaslip.... those guys wouldn't even have 1 bok cap had they been growing up in SA.

Faletau was far more influential when they came up against each other in the WC and how old was he at the time?

Pretty sure all the names mentioned would have had at least 1 cap for SA given how mediocre Spies' international from has been.

Nonsense: none of them play for the Bulls! That's the primary requirement for HM Whistle

but Seriously though: when the other seven forwards in Spies' pack are able to dominate the field, and Spies has space to run riot he's probably unparalled. But if the rest of his pack is struggling to subdue the opposition pack, Spies doesn't contribute much to the grunt-work of forward ground work. Hence he did well when he played alongside Bakkies and Danie Rossouw etc they made up for Spies' abovementioned deficiencies.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:58 pm

Is he as good as Read?

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 3:59 pm

fa0019 wrote:Not just this season.

Since the last RWC he has been the elder statesman of the bulls and took over when Bakkies, Du Preez, Victor and Danie retired/left. They were vunerable but he dragged them to respectful results. He deserves a lot of credit for this.

I don't think he's the best No8 in SA... but he's not far off.

Yes fine but being the best 8 in SA doesnt automatically make you the best in the world. Sorry it really doesnt even if SA tend to produce excellent forwards.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:00 pm

that was a rhetorical question by the way

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:00 pm

Biltong wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Sure they can't.... not just on being eligible but in that they wouldn't be good enough.

Vermeulen, Kankowski, Spies and Alberts are all better players. You can throw in guys from the last 4 years like Danie Russouw & Joe van Niekerk into that also (a bok favourite of mine).

Any time Spies has played against Ireland Heaslip has got the better of him including when they came face to face on the Lions tour when Spies was anonomous as usual. He might make the Ireland bench as a dynamic impact player but for a guy of his size he isnt even that physical.
hell, I am always amazed at people making claims like that, how do you remember every game, and every player's performance over such a period.

Or is it a case of making a strong statement hoping the other guy doesn't go into his library to watch his copies of those games.

I make a point of remembering when it comes to Spies because of the hype that sorrounds him.

by fa0019 Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:03 pm

no one was ever suggesting he was the best in the world GG.

I myself have stated I think he's about 3rd in SA and I've said that many times over the last few weeks.

However I think he gets a lot of criticism which is undue and partly due to it being fashionable to bash him. He's a much more rounded player now then he was 2 years ago.

by **Biltong** Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:03 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Biltong wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Sure they can't.... not just on being eligible but in that they wouldn't be good enough.

Vermeulen, Kankowski, Spies and Alberts are all better players. You can throw in guys from the last 4 years like Danie Russouw & Joe van Niekerk into that also (a bok favourite of mine).

Any time Spies has played against Ireland Heaslip has got the better of him including when they came face to face on the Lions tour when Spies was anonomous as usual. He might make the Ireland bench as a dynamic impact player but for a guy of his size he isnt even that physical.
hell, I am always amazed at people making claims like that, how do you remember every game, and every player's performance over such a period.

Or is it a case of making a strong statement hoping the other guy doesn't go into his library to watch his copies of those games.

I make a point of remembering when it comes to Spies because of the hype that sorrounds him.

i'll then have to find copies of those matches and rewatch them.

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:08 pm

fa0019 wrote:no one was ever suggesting he was the best in the world GG.

I myself have stated I think he's about 3rd in SA and I've said that many times over the last few weeks.

However I think he gets a lot of criticism which is undue and partly due to it being fashionable to bash him. He's a much more rounded player now then he was 2 years ago.

Maybe not on this thread and I know that the article's claim that he is the best ever is obviously a joke but it is not uncommon to hear statements similar to this re Spies. At least he does get mentioned in the "world 15 teams" threads regularly enough.

I do think that somehow you feel that because he is in the top three in SA he must be better than all NH options. That is the real baffling thing.

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:09 pm

Biltong wrote:
I make a point of remembering when it comes to Spies because of the hype that sorrounds him.

i'll then have to find copies of those matches and rewatch them.[/quote]

Report back when done please.

by whocares Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:09 pm

looking at some of the SA rejects playing in France at number 8 like Vosloo and Claassens (he's more of a flanker though) who clearly are now international standart, I can understand there is serious competition down there in terms of backrowers...so guys like Faletau or Heaslip who are not specially big and physical might have srtuggle to make pro rugby down there.

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:13 pm

whocares wrote:looking at some of the SA rejects playing in France at number 8 like Vosloo and Claassens (he's more of a flanker though) who clearly are now international standart, I can understand there is serious competition down there in terms of backrowers...so guys like Faletau or Heaslip who are not specially big and physical might have srtuggle to make pro rugby down there.

Thats probably a culture thing though in SA. The trend in SA being that unless you can bench your house you are a back not a forward. Spies is a perfect example that being big doesnt automatically make you a good 8, Heaslip being a good example that size isnt everything.

Just look at the French front row. Sometimes technique trumps size.

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:17 pm

..mind you according to Wiki Faletau is heavier than Spies and Heaslip the same weight. It would appear that Spies is better conditioned and stronger than both of them though of course.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:18 pm

Wiki is not great at player weights and heights

by fa0019 Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:18 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
fa0019 wrote:no one was ever suggesting he was the best in the world GG.

I myself have stated I think he's about 3rd in SA and I've said that many times over the last few weeks.

However I think he gets a lot of criticism which is undue and partly due to it being fashionable to bash him. He's a much more rounded player now then he was 2 years ago.

Maybe not on this thread and I know that the article's claim that he is the best ever is obviously a joke but it is not uncommon to hear statements similar to this re Spies. At least he does get mentioned in the "world 15 teams" threads regularly enough.

I do think that somehow you feel that because he is in the top three in SA he must be better than all NH options. That is the real baffling thing.

I think all 3 are very very good players.

Vermeulen is such a natural 8 and if Kankowski could just stay injury free what he could achieve is limitless.... the fact that plumtree likes to play Daniel at 8 to accomodate Coetzee (a lot like Robshaw plays 7 for England) does not help Kankowski.

by **Biltong** Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:22 pm

fa0019 wrote:no one was ever suggesting he was the best in the world GG.

I myself have stated I think he's about 3rd in SA and I've said that many times over the last few weeks.

However I think he gets a lot of criticism which is undue and partly due to it being fashionable to bash him. He's a much more rounded player now then he was 2 years ago.

that is a common theme when it comes to South African sports, rugby or cricket, we dare not suggest we have a "best player" or "best team" and the criticism will flow like the Nile.

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:23 pm

Just don't dig out the tapes of this year's 6n Biltong. Doesn't make for great viewing particularly for Heaslip.

by **Biltong** Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:23 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
whocares wrote:looking at some of the SA rejects playing in France at number 8 like Vosloo and Claassens (he's more of a flanker though) who clearly are now international standart, I can understand there is serious competition down there in terms of backrowers...so guys like Faletau or Heaslip who are not specially big and physical might have srtuggle to make pro rugby down there.

Thats probably a culture thing though in SA. The trend in SA being that unless you can bench your house you are a back not a forward. Spies is a perfect example that being big doesnt automatically make you a good 8, Heaslip being a good example that size isnt everything.

Just look at the French front row. Sometimes technique trumps size.

Well to be fair, it is the house without the furniture.

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:24 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Wiki is not great at player weights and heights

Youre probably right.

by **Biltong** Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:25 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Just don't dig out the tapes of this year's 6n Biltong. Doesn't make for great viewing particularly for Heaslip.

yeah, I'll have to go back a bit.

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:26 pm

You have the best record against nz mate. Nobody can take that best title away from you. Hug

by CurlyOsp Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:26 pm

Biltong wrote:
fa0019 wrote:no one was ever suggesting he was the best in the world GG.

I myself have stated I think he's about 3rd in SA and I've said that many times over the last few weeks.

However I think he gets a lot of criticism which is undue and partly due to it being fashionable to bash him. He's a much more rounded player now then he was 2 years ago.

that is a common theme when it comes to South African sports, rugby or cricket, we dare not suggest we have a "best player" or "best team" and the criticism will flow like the Nile.

You can have best hooker if you want?

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:29 pm

No. That goes to Amsterdam. So I'm told...

by CurlyOsp Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:30 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:No. That goes to Amsterdam. So I'm told...

by **Biltong** Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:30 pm

Can't even win that.

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:33 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Just don't dig out the tapes of this year's 6n Biltong. Doesn't make for great viewing particularly for Heaslip.

Still probably better than Spies last 10 international matches. Heaslip does a lot of the grunt work. Consistently comes out top of the list of top tacklers and carriers. A ruck for Spies is just a means to take a break.

by GunsGerms Wed 10 Apr 2013, 4:44 pm

..Ok Ill backtrack and admit Spies is a good player but I do think he isnt as good as he often gets hyped to be.

by Mr Fishpaste Wed 10 Apr 2013, 5:27 pm

GunsGerms wrote:..Ok Ill backtrack and admit Spies is a good player but I do think he isnt as good as he often gets hyped to be.

That's probably what most people on here are trying to say...I, for one, agree..

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