Heyneke exclusive: Spies best in his position

by **Biltong** Wed 10 Apr 2013, 2:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

I found this on another website, thought you would enjoy it.

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has exclusively revealed to ArenaSport the reasons for Pierre Spies’s continued inclusion in the Springbok squad.

Following the announcement of the first Springbok squad of 2013, for the June Test series against Italy, Samoa and Scotland, Heyneke Meyer has confirmed that Pierre Spies is the best player in his position in South Africa… and possibly the best in the world. Ever.

“This group is by no means a final one for the June Tests and could still change in the coming months,” says Meyer, “but what I can commit to is that Pierre Spies will always be a part of the Springbok setup, certainly as long as I’m in charge.”

Ignoring the merits of the Kings Jacques Engelbrecht, the excellent season of the Cheetahs Lappies Labuschagne, and flat-out refusing to acknowledge the existence of Heinrich Brussow and Jesus, Meyer went on to say that Spies is probably the most important member of the Springbok squad.

“You have to understand that we need Pierre. There is no one else quite like him in South African rugby. No one in any of the other local franchises can do what he does.

Those big muscles, those strong arms, those thick, immense thighs,” sighed a clearly excited Bok coach, “they are all a necessary cog in the Bok wheel.”

When pressed, Meyer confirmed what most rugby fans suspected. “Yes, undoubtedly Pierre is the best baggage handler in South African sport.

With all that time he spends in the gym, he’s able to carry the bags of 10 squad members at one time. This allows us to save and spend wisely in other areas, like on movie nights we can now afford DStv Box Office.”

Captain Jean de Villiers added to Meyer’s comments. “Pierre is great. You can give him your togs, your formal gear and your essential tour electronic gadgets and he’ll carry them from the team bus to your hotel room. We simply can’t tour without him.”

by MMaaxx Wed 10 Apr 2013, 7:01 pm

Take the example of Ernst Joubert who while being a sold player at 8 in his SA days is one of the highest rated 8's in the NH. He didn't and wouldn't get a look in in SA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8900124/South-African-Ernst-Joubert-sights-set-on-England-call-up.html

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 10 Apr 2013, 7:11 pm

No one in nz thinks much of spies either. The Irish back row is very handy and wouldn't make room for spies. But that doesn't make spies a mug. To me he's like croft. If you include him you have to get the balance right to get the best out of him.

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 9:30 am

MMaaxx wrote:Take the example of Ernst Joubert who while being a sold player at 8 in his SA days is one of the highest rated 8's in the NH. He didn't and wouldn't get a look in in SA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8900124/South-African-Ernst-Joubert-sights-set-on-England-call-up.html

No sorry he is not rated one of the top 8s in the NH. He is a very good Saracens player but that doesnt make him one of the best in the NH. It doesnt work like that anyway. For example Freddie Michelak is very highly rated in super rugby but is generally considered to be muck in the NH.

Also just because he is close to getting a call up to the England team doesnt mean a lot either given that they have selected some fairly dire overseas players in recent years. Hape for one.

Saracens play a very physical brand of rugby centered around defense and competing at the breakdown. He fits nicely into that mould but just because the Telegraph gets over excited about him doesnt mean squat.

by Taffineastbourne Thu 11 Apr 2013, 9:53 am

MMaaxx wrote:Take the example of Ernst Joubert who while being a sold player at 8 in his SA days is one of the highest rated 8's in the NH. He didn't and wouldn't get a look in in SA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8900124/South-African-Ernst-Joubert-sights-set-on-England-call-up.html

Other than this journo who rates this fella?Must confess that he is nowhere near top tier of eights in NH.Dont believe all that you read in the papers.

by yappysnap Thu 11 Apr 2013, 9:54 am

Heaslip was terrible in the 6N's, I remember after the first couple of games all the Irish fans wanted him gone. He then made some small ammends later in the tournament but not much.

Spies from and English point of view has been very good, but then we always seem to get the pumped SA pack turning up to our games. He's always made solid ground and I remember a few very impressive runs off the back of the scrum.

Yes he probably can't shout at the ref like Heaslip can, or spend 80 minutes shouting "holding on, holding on, holding on" like Jamie, but there are other roles that an 8 can fill. Whistle

by yappysnap Thu 11 Apr 2013, 9:57 am

GunsGerms wrote:
MMaaxx wrote:Take the example of Ernst Joubert who while being a sold player at 8 in his SA days is one of the highest rated 8's in the NH. He didn't and wouldn't get a look in in SA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8900124/South-African-Ernst-Joubert-sights-set-on-England-call-up.html

No sorry he is not rated one of the top 8s in the NH. He is a very good Saracens player but that doesnt make him one of the best in the NH. It doesnt work like that anyway. For example Freddie Michelak is very highly rated in super rugby but is generally considered to be muck in the NH.

Also just because he is close to getting a call up to the England team doesnt mean a lot either given that they have selected some fairly dire overseas players in recent years. Hape for one.

Saracens play a very physical brand of rugby centered around defense and competing at the breakdown. He fits nicely into that mould but just because the Telegraph gets over excited about him doesnt mean squat.

Ouch you've got the claws out for the southern hemisphere haven't you?

Michalak had mixed reviews when he played for the Sharks but on the whole was very good. He then played well for Toulon and was instrumental in forming a partnership at 9 with Wilkinson. He was put at 10 for the AI's and played a blinder, especially in the demolition of Australia. AFTER that he then went horribly off form and was shocking. But before the 6N's he was well rated by most, and people were impressed with his form.

by fa0019 Thu 11 Apr 2013, 10:29 am

Taffineastbourne wrote:
MMaaxx wrote:Take the example of Ernst Joubert who while being a sold player at 8 in his SA days is one of the highest rated 8's in the NH. He didn't and wouldn't get a look in in SA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8900124/South-African-Ernst-Joubert-sights-set-on-England-call-up.html

Other than this journo who rates this fella?Must confess that he is nowhere near top tier of eights in NH.Dont believe all that you read in the papers.

He would certainly have been capped by England had he been English and would have been in the mix right now. I'd rate him over players like Jordan Crane but the ball carrying of Waldrom and Morgan probably sets them apart.

But he was a nothing player in SA.

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 10:35 am

yappysnap wrote:Heaslip was terrible in the 6N's, I remember after the first couple of games all the Irish fans wanted him gone. He then made some small ammends later in the tournament but not much.

Spies from and English point of view has been very good, but then we always seem to get the pumped SA pack turning up to our games. He's always made solid ground and I remember a few very impressive runs off the back of the scrum.

Yes he probably can't shout at the ref like Heaslip can, or spend 80 minutes shouting "holding on, holding on, holding on" like Jamie, but there are other roles that an 8 can fill.

No he wasnt he just took all the heat because he was newly apointed captain and Ireland have been struggling. Mostly from Munster fans as usual who dont like him because he tweets a lot and has a silly haircut. He was good v Wales, certainly in the first half anyway.

Heaslip as usual gets through a lot of the grunt that goes unnoticed. Just look at his stats he consistently comes out as one of the most hard working Irish forwards.

by fa0019 Thu 11 Apr 2013, 10:42 am

Its a bit of a cop out to say this player does x which goes unnoticed... if its invisible to the naked eye then there is no way of proving it yes or no... if it was then it would be picked up.
Not a criticism of Heaslip in particular. I think he's a decent player who rarely misses a tackle... but its often something I hear from many posters... and its impossible to quantify/prove/disprove.

He did lose his head against England though... 3-4 penalties of which at least 2 were kicked... the winning margin. You can't have your captain doing that. The captain needs to set the tone, the example... no wonder guys like POM were running around like headless chickens that day.

by Taffineastbourne Thu 11 Apr 2013, 10:44 am

fa0019 wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:
MMaaxx wrote:Take the example of Ernst Joubert who while being a sold player at 8 in his SA days is one of the highest rated 8's in the NH. He didn't and wouldn't get a look in in SA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8900124/South-African-Ernst-Joubert-sights-set-on-England-call-up.html

Other than this journo who rates this fella?Must confess that he is nowhere near top tier of eights in NH.Dont believe all that you read in the papers.

He would certainly have been capped by England had he been English and would have been in the mix right now. I'd rate him over players like Jordan Crane but the ball carrying of Waldrom and Morgan probably sets them apart.

But he was a nothing player in SA.

To be fair that hardly makes him in the top tier in the NH.Picamoles,Parrise and Hairy Donkey are the best in the NH.

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 11:09 am

fa0019 wrote:Its a bit of a cop out to say this player does x which goes unnoticed... if its invisible to the naked eye then there is no way of proving it yes or no... if it was then it would be picked up.
Not a criticism of Heaslip in particular. I think he's a decent player who rarely misses a tackle... but its often something I hear from many posters... and its impossible to quantify/prove/disprove.

He did lose his head against England though... 3-4 penalties of which at least 2 were kicked... the winning margin. You can't have your captain doing that. The captain needs to set the tone, the example... no wonder guys like POM were running around like headless chickens that day.

It is possible to quantify though just by looking at six nations stats. Also I guarentee that if you look at who the most capped Irish player has been in the last 5 years it would be Heaslip. He rarely gets injured and consistently gets through a massive amount of work.

Granted since his stellar season in '09 his from has dropped slightly and levelled out but he is still very consistent and has never been dropped even though Ireland have other good options at 8 such as Sean O'Brien.

It has become fashionable to have a pop at Heaslip for a couple of reasons:

Firstly he is now captain and all of a sudden Ireland are quite poor. He is the scapegoat. Still in his first 6N match as captain he steered the side to victory against the 6N champions.

Secondly, he attracts too much attention off the pitch because he tweets too much and appears to want to be some sort of style icon. This does annoy me too.

Finally, before SOB broke into the team Heaslip did most of the carrying and therefore stood out because it is obviously the most noticable part of a back rows task list. However, SOB is Ireland's top ball carrier now and Heaslip does the grunt work.

Apart for all of that he is still consistently very very good.

by fa0019 Thu 11 Apr 2013, 11:16 am

Could argue that about Spies though... near 50 caps for the boks during a strong period for them both in results and in terms of backrow options would suggest the same though.... in fact given the boks are/have been a better side then IRE over the last 5-6 years since both have played and the number of alternatives SA have in the backrow are far greater it would suggest that Spies record is superior (using your above argument).

You are right that he's taken a lot of flak... some of it justified some not.

People say he's completely out of the reckoning for the lions, I don't agree, he's not lost form like someone like Ashton (a player I admit I admire in terms of his playing ability). But he fell a little short in terms of captaincy.

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 12:26 pm

Not too worried about Heaslip's captaincy.

Robshaw had a rocky start as captain too but now looks the real deal.
Warburton too but won the 6N in the end.

If the Boks have been a better side than Ireland in the last 5 years it hasnt been by much. Of the last 5 encounters Ireland have won 3 SA have won 2. Granted they have all been in Dublin.

The two that SA won were the last two but were only by 4 points and 2 points and Ireland had a ridiculous amount of injuries on both occasions. I think it would be fairer to conclude that the two teams have been fairly evenly matched.

In particular in the first half of their last encounter the Irish back row got the better of the SA back row.

In the last WC SA got to the semis Ireland got to the quarters. Both teams beat Australia albeit SA had some help from the ref so not much difference there.

As much as you would like to claim that SA have been much better than Ireland in the last 5 years there isnt much evidence to support your claims.

by fa0019 Thu 11 Apr 2013, 12:29 pm

the boks have never been out of the top 3 in that time... have Ireland ever been in the top 4?

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 12:32 pm

fa0019 wrote:the boks have never been out of the top 3 in that time... have Ireland ever been in the top 4?

Yes in 2007 Ireland were ranked 3rd in the world going into the France world cup. Ireland have had their worst run of results this year but prior to that they were consistently ranked at least around 5th.

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 12:41 pm

Sorry actually it was '06. My bad. Ahead of SA and Aus:

http://www.irb.com/rankings/archive/date=2006-11-20/histranking.html

by **Biltong** Thu 11 Apr 2013, 12:42 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Not too worried about Heaslip's captaincy.

Robshaw had a rocky start as captain too but now looks the real deal.
Warburton too but won the 6N in the end.

If the Boks have been a better side than Ireland in the last 5 years it hasnt been by much. Of the last 5 encounters Ireland have won 3 SA have won 2. Granted they have all been in Dublin.
The two that SA won were the last two but were only by 4 points and 2 points and Ireland had a ridiculous amount of injuries on both occasions. I think it would be fairer to conclude that the two teams have been fairly evenly matched.

In particular in the first half of their last encounter the Irish back row got the better of the SA back row.

In the last WC SA got to the semis Ireland got to the quarters. Both teams beat Australia albeit SA had some help from the ref so not much difference there.

As much as you would like to claim that SA have been much better than Ireland in the last 5 years there isnt much evidence to support your claims.

And that is a major factor.

Pleasant hard grounds in SA vs Cold and damp conditions away. However we have turned the corner against Ireland a few yeas ago and I foresee us continuing that trend.

By the way Guns, any idea when your blokes will reciprocate with what is it now, visiting us for the next 9 years?

About the last 5 years. How many times did you beat the All Blacks, England, Wales etc.

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 12:46 pm

The Boks have of course been out of the top three too at least on a few occasions:

http://www.irb.com/rankings/archive/date=2012-02-13/histranking.html

http://www.irb.com/rankings/archive/date=2012-01-16/histranking.html

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 12:50 pm

Biltong wrote:By the way Guns, any idea when your blokes will reciprocate with what is it now, visiting us for the next 9 years?

About the last 5 years. How many times did you beat the All Blacks, England, Wales etc.

England and Wales plenty of times. NZ never.

Three test tour to SA in 2016 I believe. No doubt they will all be played on top of mountains.

by **Biltong** Thu 11 Apr 2013, 1:02 pm

Of course.

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 11 Apr 2013, 1:10 pm

Think you're on shaky ground Gg. Basing the statement Sa is slightly better than Ireland on 5 games in Dublin is not too convincing. Sa has 2 world cups and a few 3n titles and has whitewashed nz in the same calendar year. Ireland are usually consistent but have lacked consistency in winning terms against the top three ranked teams. So too has Sa against nz and oz in recent years but not so against other teams. That is the key difference.

by **rodders** Thu 11 Apr 2013, 1:29 pm

Once we've stolen a few more saffers as projects we'll have the edge ..... thumbsup

......

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 2:44 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Think you're on shaky ground Gg. Basing the statement Sa is slightly better than Ireland on 5 games in Dublin is not too convincing. Sa has 2 world cups and a few 3n titles and has whitewashed nz in the same calendar year. Ireland are usually consistent but have lacked consistency in winning terms against the top three ranked teams. So too has Sa against nz and oz in recent years but not so against other teams. That is the key difference.

We were talking about the last 5 years though.

Of course over the history of the game SA are way ahead of Ireland.

To say that over the last 5 years SA have been a lot better than Ireland and therefore must have a better qualilty back row isnt quite right if you ask me.

In recent years you must admit Ireland has a very decent record v SA and Aus. Better than most NH teams.

Lets not talk about NZ anymore, ok?

by MMaaxx Thu 11 Apr 2013, 3:07 pm

But how seriously can you take Ireland's wins in the last few years? To me they give little indication of the closeness of the teams. Most end of year tours the Boks are clearly fatigued, injury riddled and unmotivated. It doesn't mean much beating Ireland in such circstances compared to how much it means for Ireland to get a SH scalp. The Boks usually use the tours for experimentation. I don't like that this happens as I don't want rugby to have meaningless fixtures like football but unfortunately it's the reality.

Take the 06 result. SA fielded a severely weakened team. Debuts across the back three. Habana at centre and Steyn out of position. Other players used like Sephaka, Cronje, the two Pretorious', Bevin Fontein (how the hell did he get near a Bok jersey) were no where near the top 3 in their position in the country. Ireland in contrast fielded their strongest team in order to ensure the win and boost moral with a SH win.

I suppose it doesn't really matter considering 7 months later the Boks were lifting the RWC with Steyn, who had his debut against Ireland, playing a key role as a 19 year old while we all know what happened to Ireland at the same tournament.....

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 3:23 pm

MMaaxx wrote:But how seriously can you take Ireland's wins in the last few years? To me they give little indication of the closeness of the teams. Most end of year tours the Boks are clearly fatigued, injury riddled and unmotivated.

Surely you could say the same of Ireland. Last encounter more that half the Ireland team were missing. So much so we had to borrow Adrian Strauss' cousin to play at hooker.

MMaaxx wrote:
It doesn't mean much beating Ireland in such circstances compared to how much it means for Ireland to get a SH scalp. The Boks usually use the tours for experimentation. I don't like that this happens as I don't want rugby to have meaningless fixtures like football but unfortunately it's the reality.

Thats a convenient excuse for losing. Surely in rugby all test matches count. In any case SA since '06 have always fielded their strongest available side against Ireland.

MMaaxx wrote:

Take the 06 result. SA fielded a severely weakened team. Debuts across the back three. Habana at centre and Steyn out of position. Other players used like Sephaka, Cronje, the two Pretorious', Bevin Fontein (how the hell did he get near a Bok jersey) were no where near the top 3 in their position in the country. Ireland in contrast fielded their strongest team in order to ensure the win and boost moral with a SH win.

Jake White like a lot of South Africans tend to underestimated the Irish. White said that no irish would make it into the SA squad prior to the match and then Ireland hammered the Boks. You can only play whats put in front of you. Since then the Boks have showed more respect fielded their strongest available team each time.

Mind you JP Pieterson did actually say in a press conference prior to playing Ireland on the last occasion that Irelands dangeman was David Skrela. Two thinks struck me as funny about this, Skrela is fairly rubbish and secondly he plays for France.

MMaaxx wrote:
I suppose it doesn't really matter considering 7 months later the Boks were lifting the RWC with Steyn, who had his debut against Ireland, playing a key role as a 19 year old while we all know what happened to Ireland at the same tournament.....

Again the discussion was based around the form of each side in the last 5 years. Therefore the '07 WC isnt really relevant.

by kingraf Thu 11 Apr 2013, 3:40 pm

This may be out of sync with the rest of the SA population, but for me Ireland is the one 6N side I'm normally less than confident about facing. That said, unless we are facing NZ, victory is a must.

Also, Guns, I'm not a particularly big fan of Jake White, but he never actually said No Irish player could make it into the SpringBok squad. That wasnt even what the papers said. I dont know why you are being economical with the truth.

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 3:42 pm

kingraf wrote:This may be out of sync with the rest of the SA population, but for me Ireland is the one 6N side I'm normally less than confident about facing. That said, unless we are facing NZ, victory is a must.

Also, Guns, I'm not a particularly big fan of Jake White, but he never actually said No Irish player could make it into the SpringBok squad. That wasnt even what the papers said. I dont know why you are being economical with the truth.

What did he say then? Thats more or less how it was reported over here.

by fa0019 Thu 11 Apr 2013, 3:43 pm

Ireland away is a tough match for everyone, whoever you are in the world. The conditions itself are often a challenge.

White didn't bring his top squad in 06 because he was looking to rest his main squad for the world cup year in 07.... it was nothing to do with under-estimating the opposition.

by **Biltong** Thu 11 Apr 2013, 3:48 pm

Well both camps are entitled to believe what they want. i believe it is unforgiveable to lose against Ireland.

Every time we do, I am highly upset and have to go the the petshop again.

by kingraf Thu 11 Apr 2013, 3:55 pm

In an interview what jake said (almost word for for word) is that a reporter asked him to discuss the team. And he said "BOD basically picks himself & your lock pairing would make any team in the world" and left it at that.

by fa0019 Thu 11 Apr 2013, 3:58 pm

when did Jake say that.... 06? He would have chosen O'Connell and O'Callaghan over Botha and Matfield??? Shocked

by kingraf Thu 11 Apr 2013, 4:00 pm

www.irishexaminer.com/sport/kfaugbgbkfoj/rss2/

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 11 Apr 2013, 4:00 pm

Guns I like the Ireland team a lot and think the departure of Juan smith and ferris are a great shame. But whilst Ireland have been consistent in Europe I think they didn't make the most of their talent in test matches in comparison to club matches. The only thing that matters to people in the SH is test rugby. We take pride in club and provincial rugby but only because it us geared towards national rugby. Whilst in the last five years you've had a good record against England and have improved against France losing to teams like Scotland and Italy are not indications of a dominant side. It's difficult to judge tests in June and November as preparation is different. But a grand slam in 2009? And there's not much in the way of test trophies worth writing home about. Sa hasn't had much to write home about in the last five years either in the 3 n and coaches and politics have played a part in both teams and both could be seen as underachievers in terms of the talent at their disposal and their results. But Sa are ranked consistently higher for good reason.

by MMaaxx Thu 11 Apr 2013, 4:00 pm

Ireland will always play their strongest available side against the Boks. They measure themselves against those and other SH victories no matter how under prepared, fatigued and injury plagued the opposition may be.

It can be highlighted that ireland were weakened the last time they played the Boks but so was SA. The fact that SA could lose the core of their team to retirements and overseas contracts, lose more players to injury, be fatigued, playing in Dublin in conditions that work for Ireland and still win says a lot.

Remove BOD, POC, Heaslip, Best, O'Brian, Kearney and Sexton. Remove another 5 first squad players through injury and send that team to SA in June to play on hard fields at altitude on a dry Pretoria or JHB winters day and see what happens....

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 4:11 pm

kingraf wrote:www.irishexaminer.com/sport/kfaugbgbkfoj/rss2/

Classic case of back tracking after the fact. The reason I remember what Jake White said was because I was working in a bank with John Robbie's son at the time. I gave him a serious ribbing after the match over the White comments.

Anyway it doesnt matter anymore.

by the way I hope you South Africans have one eye on the Masters. Schwartzel has got off to a bad start. Oosthuizen not off for a while.

Come on Harrington/Mcilroy/Gmac!!

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 4:17 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Guns I like the Ireland team a lot and think the departure of Juan smith and ferris are a great shame. But whilst Ireland have been consistent in Europe I think they didn't make the most of their talent in test matches in comparison to club matches. The only thing that matters to people in the SH is test rugby. We take pride in club and provincial rugby but only because it us geared towards national rugby. Whilst in the last five years you've had a good record against England and have improved against France losing to teams like Scotland and Italy are not indications of a dominant side. It's difficult to judge tests in June and November as preparation is different. But a grand slam in 2009? And there's not much in the way of test trophies worth writing home about. Sa hasn't had much to write home about in the last five years either in the 3 n and coaches and politics have played a part in both teams and both could be seen as underachievers in terms of the talent at their disposal and their results. But Sa are ranked consistently higher for good reason.

Kia, like I said we had a bad year this year. We lost to Italy for the first time ever in the 6N and with a ridiculously long injury list so its not like we consistently lose to Italy or Scotland for that matter. In '12 ireland trounced both Italy and Scotland with a more injury free team.

Italy actually performed very well against NZ (42-10 score board doesnt do justice to their performance) and Aus (22-19) in November so they arent such a bad side anymore anyway.

They also beat France the WC finalists. Its a funny old game.

by fa0019 Thu 11 Apr 2013, 4:23 pm

and they took offence to it??

Perhaps given White had rested 20 players for the 06 tour but first choice vs. first choice back then I doubt Ireland would have got 3 players in the bok team.

1. Du Randt vs. Horan. Winner SA
2. Smit vs. Flannery. Winner SA
3. van der Linde vs. Hayes. Winner SA
4. Botha vs. O'Callaghan. Winner SA
5. Matfield vs. O'Connell. Winner SA... but very close.
6. Smith vs. Easterby. Winner SA
7. Burger vs. Wallace. Winner SA
8. Russouw vs. Leamy. Winner SA... White's trump card very often.
9. Du Preez vs. Stringer. Winner SA
10. James vs. O'Gara. Difficult but James was a proven clutch player. Probably SA.
11. Habana vs. Hickie. Winner SA
12. De Villiers vs. D'Arcy. Winner SA.
13. Fourie vs. O'Driscoll. Very tough. Both standout but O'Driscoll by a whisker.
14. Pietersen vs. Horgan. Winner SA. Hands down.
15. Montegomery vs. Dempsey. Winner SA.

So at best at the time it was 1 or 2 although if we are talking about the 30 players which were fielded in Nov 06 then that would have been very different as they field nobody's like Fortuin, Pretorius, Januarie, Sephaka, Ackerman.

by kingraf Thu 11 Apr 2013, 4:24 pm

Well, unless there is audio to dispute his version, I see no reason to doubt him on a story that happened three years ago (at the time), when he was in no way involved in either team. Besides, no twenty-first century Manager would say that, especially to an opposing journalist, thats creating unnecessary pressure.

Re: Masters. I hope we win another major. I expect Oosthuizen to challenge again, Els has unfinished business at Augusta. Besides, we have shares at Augusta, judging by our past successes there.
Looking forward to McIlroy, he is my favourite golfer, and a Masters win is overdue, especially after the last meltdown

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 4:30 pm

kingraf wrote:Well, unless there is audio to dispute his version, I see no reason to doubt him on a story that happened three years ago (at the time), when he was in no way involved in either team. Besides, no twenty-first century Manager would say that, especially to an opposing journalist, thats creating unnecessary pressure.

Re: Masters. I hope we win another major. I expect Oosthuizen to challenge again, Els has unfinished business at Augusta. Besides, we have shares at Augusta, judging by our past successes there.
Looking forward to McIlroy, he is my favourite golfer, and a Masters win is overdue, especially after the last meltdown

I have a small bet on charl schwartzel. Early days now but hes not looking great so far at +1.

South Africans have a stunning record at the Master. Would love to see Rory do well but its hard to know what he will produce.

by kingraf Thu 11 Apr 2013, 4:39 pm

Blame Wozniacki

by GunsGerms Thu 11 Apr 2013, 4:40 pm

kingraf wrote:Blame Wozniacki

I do blame Wozza but I cant say I blame McIlroy for wanting to hang around with her.

by kingraf Thu 11 Apr 2013, 4:52 pm

She is a lovely maiden I must say.

by Sgt_Pooly Thu 11 Apr 2013, 7:28 pm

Spies is a top SH 8 but wouldn't suit the winters in the NH imo.

Kankowski on the other hand is a pretty awful 8, I can't believe he gets near a Bok jersey.

by **rodders** Thu 11 Apr 2013, 10:41 pm

Sorry Guns auld bud but I'm with Kia and Bilts here.

Spies is currently better than Heaslip who hasn't been at his best for 2 seasons now.

In World terms we are a few notches down from SA for sure..... flip their surplus players are some of the best players in Europe .... Shocked

by fa0019 Fri 12 Apr 2013, 9:09 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Spies is a top SH 8 but wouldn't suit the winters in the NH imo.

Kankowski on the other hand is a pretty awful 8, I can't believe he gets near a Bok jersey.

really! He's had a near full season off with injury but is a very talented guy.

by GunsGerms Fri 12 Apr 2013, 9:13 am

rodders wrote:Sorry Guns auld bud but I'm with Kia and Bilts here.

Spies is currently better than Heaslip who hasn't been at his best for 2 seasons now.

In World terms we are a few notches down from SA for sure..... flip their surplus players are some of the best players in Europe ....

Morning Rodders and Fa, happy Friday to you both.

Not sure what you basing that on Rodders but each to their own. In any case its hardly surprising that an Ulsterman puts South African players on a pedistal when two of them walked into the Ulster team as leaders.

by Sgt_Pooly Fri 12 Apr 2013, 9:22 am

I've got to agree with Rodders, Heaslip hasn't been great for a few seasons now. He's possibly the worst 8 in the 6N on current form.

by **rodders** Fri 12 Apr 2013, 9:56 am

Morning Guns mug

...ah come on man this isn't an Ulster thing look at Straus, VDW, Botha, Stander, Payne, Roux, De Villiers etc.

SA journey men have been key players for the Irish provonces. SA don't always play the most attractive rugby but are a true rugby super power and net exporter of talent.

At times we have closed the gap on them but certainly right now we can't argue to be on par. They have far more depth and particularly so in terms of forwards. The IRB rankings are flawed but can't be ignored either.

by **Biltong** Fri 12 Apr 2013, 10:00 am

Coming back to the comparison of Heaslip and Spies.

It really isn't important who we beleive is the better of the two players, the question each of us should ask is are they the best players for each of our teams, I can't answer that question for Ireland, but I can for SA.

No he isn't

by fa0019 Fri 12 Apr 2013, 10:02 am

Don't think many would say that either even die in the wool bulls fans.

Vermuleun is the man in the jersey at the moment... although his form has been a little bit of a concern... he has to step up at the stormers. With Schalk out we need a senior guy to take us forward... Bekker can't do it on his own.

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