Lions Capt announcement

It seems the only player who will know that he is going on tour prior to the squad being announced is the lions 2013 Tour Captain.

What a huge honour and responsibility to be that man. I would love to have him to dinner and offer him my sister but that's unlikely as i have no sister.

Anyway. There is no obvious candidate and i think that compounds the uncertainty everyone feels about this tour. I was there in 09 for every minute of every Test. We could have won, should have won. Against the mighty Boks POC was the right choice, in the Johnson mould, an abrasive forward who would lead his thin red line into battle like Gordon's Highlander's, carrying into the melee that is a Bok pack.

For me a forward capt is vital for that reason. You need a sentinel who stand out in the siege like atmosphere of a Lions series. Johnson is a RWC winning skipper but for me his zenith was as the winning Capt in 97. 2001 was a great fiasco, a tour we should have won but didn't, 2005 seemed to set a new bar for a fiasco and we all know why. 2009 meanwhile was almost glory.

Personally I think the Wallabies are eminently beatable. There is disarray in camp, the suggestion Deans is a marked man, uncertainty over the real talent in the amazing backline that is, for me, the best in the world. The timing is right. But there are ominous signs for the Lions. Debate over the Capt is the least of our worries; an embarrassment of riches at backrow, a paucity in the centres, no real creativity anywhere. is our plan going to be a la Wales, round the corner bang it up, round the corner bang it up.....my wife complains about variety and now i get it.

If we buy into the weak Aussie pack theory and hope we can destroy them up front then we may just be lead like lambs not Lions, to the slaughter. Ask Wales. If Oz gain any parity up front then their backs are just classier. Natural fleet footed footballing players. We have one, maybe 2 who fit that bill. But BOD's bod is buggered and JD2 is nowhere near the Aussie class on his own. So we have to field a massive aggressive set piece orientated tight 5 and a rampaging back row. I fully expect Tips and Warbs to figure after standing up in that huge 6 Nations decider. Likewise i feel Philips extra physicality at 9 is key, there is no point us even trying to go toe to toe with Genia even if he is just returning.

Ultimately what seems key is the foundation of the touring party and i think the Capt is that foundation. He must not be a squad Capt but a guaranteed starter, a man who will deal on and off the pitch and if necessary, rather as Johnson did, be willing to forego photo opps. I want a guy who is mean, frowning and aggressive and who lets it be known he is there for 1 thing only. The W. For me then it should be POC if he is fully fit. he did a job in SA, has returned to MOM form and has been outside Ireland's camp in this 6 Nations - a clear advantage. i love BOD and considered him but will he even start? Robshaw was up there had Eng won but they didn't. Warbs is no Lions Capt - he should be left to just do his job.

So, over to you...i am sure in the next few days this form will come back to life but in the meantime....................

1. Who SHOULD your Capt be?
2. Who WILL Gats select?
3. Who is your BOLTER Capt?
4. Will there be a squad skipper and if so who?

Gats has talked of their being a tour captain, I would like to see O'Driscoll in that roll.

Match captain on current form would be Paul O'Connell

Outsider but a good choice would be Alun Wynn Jones.

1. Kelly Brown
I have made his case on numerous threads. He has been consistently excellent all season, not once taking a backwards step and never giving up. He has formed the cornerstone of the powerful sarries pack and captained Scotland with distinction during their best 6N in a decade. 2nd top tackler in the 6N and making an astonishing 21 tackles in Sarries game against Ulster and not missing a single one. Also top turnover winner in the 6N.

An approachable guy who is intense, brave and selfless on the field. Respected by his teammates and his opponents and never afraid to confront the referee.

Jones or Robshaw would be ny other choices.

2. Warburton, the bookies don't normally get it wrong.

3. Grant / Sexton / Tipuric. Bolter captain is a tough one. I don't know about Tip's experience as captain but I reckon he is certain to be a starter. Sexton is another guy who has had experience leading Leinster in HC matches, giving team talks and vocally motivating the team. Grant has been great for Scotland and is VC behind Kelly Brown.

4. If a tour captain is picked I would choose BOD or Hines.

IMO BOD is a starter, if not an absolute definite, and will command so much respect from the squad. I still think he has one year of test rugby left in him, and although his ankle has caused him bother this year, I have never seen another player who can return to form so quickly. Look at his performance last week against Munster.

Warburton, Heaslip and Robshaw would not start for me and all have had somewhat turbulent captaincies. Brown is a decent shout but still would not start in my back row.
AWJ would not start for me.

POC is emerging as many people's favourite, but I think he has been removed from test rugby for too long, although I do think he should be on the plane.

Radge

i like the sound of Brown but does he have the profile/star quaity

That said, who does.

Jones and Robshaw are absolute no nos for me. The former is just too nice a bloke. The latter is far too inexperienced and just lead his team to failure. Not sure how he qualifies at all.

Warburton is frankly a mistake. His style of leadership is far too low key for the Lions and frankly he often looks like a rabbit in the headlights. If the bookies are right i will be disappointed.

My bolter is AWJ, i doubt he'll get it but he fits the bill if playing on form.

I said on another thread that either Ryan Jones or Chris Robshaw for me.

100%beefy. i do agree with you that Warburton, if he is chosen will be the biggest mistake in Gatland's life.

1. BOD
2. Warburton
3. Don't see it but IMO Sexton should be the Irish captain so he is my bolter choice
4. I don't think there will be, Gatland may play an all-Welsh back row. The other question does seem directed at BOD, but currently I would start him.

1. POC
2. POC
3. Adam Jones ..... who else is garunteed his place
4. Andy Powell... he always makes everyone smile, he could have a little golf buggy to ride up and down the touchline yelling encouragement ... oh no he's gone North!

100%beefy wrote:It seems the only player who will know that he is going on tour prior to the squad being announced is the lions 2013 Tour Captain.

What a huge honour and responsibility to be that man. I would love to have him to dinner and offer him my sister but that's unlikely as i have no sister.

Anyway. Thre is no obvious candidate and i think that compounds the uncertainty everyone feels about this tour. I was there in 09 for every minute of every Test. We could have won, should have won. Against the mighty Boks POC was the right choice, in the Johnson mould, an abrasive forward who would lead his thin red line into battle like Gordon's Highlander's, carrying into the melee that is a Bok pack.

For me a forward capt is vital for that reason. You need a sentinel who stand out in the siege like atmosphere of a Lions series. Johnson is a RWC winning skipper but for me his zenith was as the winning Capt in 97. 2001 was a great fiasco, a tour we should have won but didn't, 2005 seemed to set a new bar for a fiasco and we all know why. 2009 meanwhile was almost glory.

Personally I think the Wallabies are eminently beatable. There is disarray in camp, the suggestion Deans is a marked man, uncertainty over the real talent in the amazing backline that is, for me, the best in the world. The timing is right. But there are ominous signs for the Lions. Debate over the Capt is the least of our worries; an embarassment of riches at backrow, a paucity in the centres, no real creativity anywhere. is our plan going to be a la Wales, round the corner bang it up, round the corner bang it up.....my wife complains about variety and now i get it.

If we buy into the weak Aussie pack theory and hope we can destroy them up front then we may just be lead like lambs not Lions, to the slaughter. Ask Wales. If Oz gain any parity up front then their backs are just classier. Natural fleet footed footballing players. We have one, maybe 2 who fit that bill. But BOD's bod is bugered and JD2 is nowhere near the Aussie class on his own. So we have to field a massive aggressive set piece orientated tight 5 and a rampaging back row. I fully expect Tips and Warbs to figure after standing up in that huge 6 Nations decider. Likewise i feel Philips extra physicality at 9 is key, there is no point us even trying to go toe to toe with Genia even if he is just returning.

Ultimately what seems key is the foundation of the touring party and i think the Capt is that foundation. He must not be a squad Capt but a guaranteed starter, a man who will deal on and off the pitch and if necessary, rather as Johnson did, be willing to forego photo opps. I want a guy who is mean, frowning and aggressive and who lets it be known he is there for 1 thing only. The W. For me then it should be POC if he is fully fit. he did a job in SA, has returned to MOM form and has been outside Ireland's camp in this 6 Nations - a clear advantage. i love BOD and considered him but will he even start? Robshaw was up there had Eng won but they didn't. Warbs is no Lions Capt - he should be left to just do his job.

So, over to you...i am sure in the next few days this form will come back to life but in the meantime....................

1. Who SHOULD your Capt be?
2. Who WILL Gats select?
3. Who is your BOLTER Capt?
4. Will there be a squad skipper and if so who?

Where did you copy and paste this from?

jimpy the dull is back...surprised you could read it to be honest

Jimpy wrote:

100%beefy wrote:It seems the only player who will know that he is going on tour prior to the squad being announced is the lions 2013 Tour Captain.

What a huge honour and responsibility to be that man. I would love to have him to dinner and offer him my sister but that's unlikely as i have no sister.

Anyway. Thre is no obvious candidate and i think that compounds the uncertainty everyone feels about this tour. I was there in 09 for every minute of every Test. We could have won, should have won. Against the mighty Boks POC was the right choice, in the Johnson mould, an abrasive forward who would lead his thin red line into battle like Gordon's Highlander's, carrying into the melee that is a Bok pack.

For me a forward capt is vital for that reason. You need a sentinel who stand out in the siege like atmosphere of a Lions series. Johnson is a RWC winning skipper but for me his zenith was as the winning Capt in 97. 2001 was a great fiasco, a tour we should have won but didn't, 2005 seemed to set a new bar for a fiasco and we all know why. 2009 meanwhile was almost glory.

Personally I think the Wallabies are eminently beatable. There is disarray in camp, the suggestion Deans is a marked man, uncertainty over the real talent in the amazing backline that is, for me, the best in the world. The timing is right. But there are ominous signs for the Lions. Debate over the Capt is the least of our worries; an embarassment of riches at backrow, a paucity in the centres, no real creativity anywhere. is our plan going to be a la Wales, round the corner bang it up, round the corner bang it up.....my wife complains about variety and now i get it.

If we buy into the weak Aussie pack theory and hope we can destroy them up front then we may just be lead like lambs not Lions, to the slaughter. Ask Wales. If Oz gain any parity up front then their backs are just classier. Natural fleet footed footballing players. We have one, maybe 2 who fit that bill. But BOD's bod is bugered and JD2 is nowhere near the Aussie class on his own. So we have to field a massive aggressive set piece orientated tight 5 and a rampaging back row. I fully expect Tips and Warbs to figure after standing up in that huge 6 Nations decider. Likewise i feel Philips extra physicality at 9 is key, there is no point us even trying to go toe to toe with Genia even if he is just returning.

Ultimately what seems key is the foundation of the touring party and i think the Capt is that foundation. He must not be a squad Capt but a guaranteed starter, a man who will deal on and off the pitch and if necessary, rather as Johnson did, be willing to forego photo opps. I want a guy who is mean, frowning and aggressive and who lets it be known he is there for 1 thing only. The W. For me then it should be POC if he is fully fit. he did a job in SA, has returned to MOM form and has been outside Ireland's camp in this 6 Nations - a clear advantage. i love BOD and considered him but will he even start? Robshaw was up there had Eng won but they didn't. Warbs is no Lions Capt - he should be left to just do his job.

So, over to you...i am sure in the next few days this form will come back to life but in the meantime....................

1. Who SHOULD your Capt be?
2. Who WILL Gats select?
3. Who is your BOLTER Capt?
4. Will there be a squad skipper and if so who?

Where did you copy and paste this from?

Just the way I like to start my day. Haven't even had breakfast yet and trouble is brewing.

Jimpy, why would you want to respond in a Wumming way after such a carefully thought out post?

Good thread beefy.

I'm actually really concerned that there is no stand out this tour. The lions are defined by their captain - if we have a weak captain with doubts over his starting place then the tour could fall into dissaray.

my choice would be poc

Anybody but Warburton pls

1. BOD
2. Warbs
3. POC
4. No. Same Team Captain for all 3 Tests if possible (should also be Squad Captain) but if forced to name someone outside of a Test captain, then probably AWJ.

Hartley for Captain!!!!

He will do the 99 call.

There is no cadidate for captain that imo is a certain to start. But...
1. POC
2. POC
3. Phillips - yes folks you heard it here first
4. No squad skipper

100%beefy wrote:
1. Who SHOULD your Capt be?
2. Who WILL Gats select?
3. Who is your BOLTER Capt?
4. Will there be a squad skipper and if so who?

1. O'Driscoll
2. Warburton
3. Rory Best, AWJ, Brown
4. No, there'll be one captain.

AWJ....really???!!

I honestly dont believe he should be a test starter let alone Captain....

1. BOD or Robshaw
2. Warbs or phillips
3. Tips, brown, Poc
4. No need. Players will sort out that between themselves.

Agree with the gist of the thread, that the Lions need a captain in the MJ / POC mode - tough, abrasive, never a backward step players who will unify and inspire those around them. I don't like having a prop as captain because outside of the set piece a lot of the game can pass them by, and similarly I'm not keen on having the captain any further out that inside centre.

The problems are:
A - Very few stand-out players that you would ink in as a starter at this stage. Of those that are, Best and Sexton have some captaincy experience at provincial level but little at international level (then again, MJ wasn't an experienced international captain in 97).

B- Of the home nations captains, all 4 (5 if you count both Ryan Jones and Warburton) are back row players. Heaslip has been out of form, Warbs and Robshaw are similar types of player (7s that can play 6) and neither look like obvious first choice in either position, while Kelly Brown at 6 has competition from both of them plus SOB. I don't see Ryan Jones as a test starter, but I'd have him on the tour as the dirt track captain and for bench cover.

So where does that leave us:
1 - Preferred captain: O'Connell

2 - Likely to be named captain: Warburton (as others have said, bookies rarely get it wrong).

3 - Bolters: Best, Ben Youngs

4 - The tour captain will be the Test captain (at least for the first Test). Other players (BOD, Wilkinson if selected) will handle some of the off-field media stuff to ease the workload.

Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player with leadership abilities in the possible Lions squad?

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player with leadership abilities in the possible Lions squad?

I would probably have to say BOD.

Then he would be my prefereed choice as captain.

To beat the Wallabies you need someone that cannot be outsmarted.

One thing about tese Ozzies, they are a smart lot. They don't use brawn only, and if the Lions want to beat them, they mustn't be outsmarted.

sorry, did you say something?

yeah, our players have to at least have a Ph.D. in either Medicine, Break-Dancing, Car-jacking or Common Theft.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player with leadership abilities in the possible Lions squad?

I would probably have to say BOD.

Don't forget though knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit ......

Best quote ever!

100%beefy wrote:
Jones and Robshaw are absolute no nos for me. The former is just too nice a bloke. The latter is far too inexperienced and just lead his team to failure. Not sure how he qualifies at all.

That's way over the top. One big loss after five straight wins and suddenly Robshaw "led his team to failure"? By that logic I guess it has to be Gethin Jenkins.

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player with leadership abilities in the possible Lions squad?

I would have to say that POC, BOD, Warburton and Robshaw would all appear to be pretty smart. IMO they are all good leaders. POC and BOD have a little more experience though so I think they would be better choices. BOD being the most experienced so he would be my choice but I would be happy enough with any of them.

Whoever it is I'm sure the squad will rally around them and provide plenty of support. Lets hope the fans and press do too.

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player in the possible Lions squad?

Jamie Roberts probably.

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player in the possible Lions squad?

Jamie Roberts probably.

Think you changed the question there.

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player in the possible Lions squad?

Jamie Roberts probably.

To be fair, the execution of a line out these days are akin to being a surgeon in an operating theatre, but then Jamie isn't in the line out, eh?

rodders wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player with leadership abilities in the possible Lions squad?

I would probably have to say BOD.

Don't forget though knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit ......

Not a fruit and veggie shop mate, we're talking rugby here.

Biltong wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player in the possible Lions squad?

Jamie Roberts probably.

To be fair, the execution of a line out these days are akin to being a surgeon in an operating theatre, but then Jamie isn't in the line out, eh?

He isnt a surgeon either.

Linebreaker wrote: sorry, did you say something?

yeah, our players have to at least have a Ph.D. in either Medicine, Break-Dancing, Car-jacking or Common Theft.

Well ....errr, hmmm.

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player in the possible Lions squad?

Jamie Roberts probably.

To be fair, the execution of a line out these days are akin to being a surgeon in an operating theatre, but then Jamie isn't in the line out, eh?

He isnt a surgeon either.

..........or a rocket scientist.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player with leadership abilities in the possible Lions squad?

I would probably have to say BOD.

That's not a spanner, BOD is the best without a doubt if he is also in the test team, if he ain't then Warb's, he has matured and lesson learned. Does BOD he have the ability to play 3 tests and keep in peak form? He is deserving of the captains spot far and beyond any other.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player with leadership abilities in the possible Lions squad?

I would probably have to say BOD.

That's not a spanner, BOD is the best without a doubt if he is also in the test team, if he ain't then Warb's, he has matured and lesson learned. Does BOD he have the ability to play 3 tests and keep in peak form? He is deserving of the captains spot far and beyond any other.

Series will be over after two games and he can rest then.

GunsGerms wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player with leadership abilities in the possible Lions squad?

I would probably have to say BOD.

That's not a spanner, BOD is the best without a doubt if he is also in the test team, if he ain't then Warb's, he has matured and lesson learned. Does BOD he have the ability to play 3 tests and keep in peak form? He is deserving of the captains spot far and beyond any other.

Series will be over after two games and he can rest then.

Confident, eh Guns?

GunsGerms wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player with leadership abilities in the possible Lions squad?

I would probably have to say BOD.

That's not a spanner, BOD is the best without a doubt if he is also in the test team, if he ain't then Warb's, he has matured and lesson learned. Does BOD he have the ability to play 3 tests and keep in peak form? He is deserving of the captains spot far and beyond any other.

Series will be over after two games and he can rest then.

I agree, and the third one he can have a quiet game, I mean to nail it 3 - 0 he won't want to miss it

1. BOD
2. I dont think he will pick Warbs despite the bookies. Paddy Power are still taking money for Warbs and they are not folks that tend to give out a free 25% return. I think he will go for POC
3. Best/AWJ
4. I hope there will be no squad skipper. Test skipper must be tour skipper, otherwise they will just undermine each other

Does anyone know what time the announcement is on Tuesday?

Can someone please tell me what Alun Wyn Jones has done that has propelled him to potential Lions captain????!!!

He's the only one with a triple barrel name and he sings the Anthem/Lion's Song with passion.

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just to throw a spanner in the thought processes here.

Who is the smartest player with leadership abilities in the possible Lions squad?

I would probably have to say BOD.

That's not a spanner, BOD is the best without a doubt if he is also in the test team, if he ain't then Warb's, he has matured and lesson learned. Does BOD he have the ability to play 3 tests and keep in peak form? He is deserving of the captains spot far and beyond any other.

Series will be over after two games and he can rest then.

Confident, eh Guns?

Absolutly. Just sad I wont be there to witness it. I had tickets and accomodation for two test matches but cant go anymore.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:1. Kelly Brown
I have made his case on numerous threads. He has been consistently excellent all season, not once taking a backwards step and never giving up. He has formed the cornerstone of the powerful sarries pack and captained Scotland with distinction during their best 6N in a decade. 2nd top tackler in the 6N and making an astonishing 21 tackles in Sarries game against Ulster and not missing a single one. Also top turnover winner in the 6N.

An approachable guy who is intense, brave and selfless on the field. Respected by his teammates and his opponents and never afraid to confront the referee.

Jones or Robshaw would be ny other choices.

2. Warburton, the bookies don't normally get it wrong.

3. Grant / Sexton / Tipuric. Bolter captain is a tough one. I don't know about Tip's experience as captain but I reckon he is certain to be a starter. Sexton is another guy who has had experience leading Leinster in HC matches, giving team talks and vocally motivating the team. Grant has been great for Scotland and is VC behind Kelly Brown.

4. If a tour captain is picked I would choose BOD or Hines.

You know what, you have a point. Blindside is probably the best pool of players from which to name the captain. I don't think there is much between them and if either of Brown, Jones, even Warburton (thought he did well at BS against England and on hard pitches who knows, but not my choice). were selected and guaranteed a place in the test side it wouldn't be a disaster or effect the team to any significant extent. Not a fan of O'Brien or Robshaw. The only thing O'Brien brings is ball carrying and Wales showed in the WC how easily that part of his game can be nulified at source. The Aussies will be at least as smart as Wales. Robshaw, well little more than a hard working pro, I wouldn't even take him on the plane, but that is unlikely as it would be seen as an insult to England to leave their captain on the beach.

Brown does make sense from a balance perspective, more so than an ageing POC /BOD. So there I am converted Brown it is.

Dragonsbreath I Really Cant agree that the only thing SOB brings is ball carrying. His work rate is exceptional, tackle count generally amongst the heighest in the team and does a lot more work at the breakdown than he often gets credit for. Think he is a cert to be in the test 23, though his versatility makes it likely he could be the bench option

Robshaw, well little more than a hard working pro, I wouldn't even take him on the plane, but that is unlikely as it would be seen as an insult to England to leave their captain on the beach.

sorry Dragonsbreath disagree with that...

But you would start Lydiate i assume...

Joe Worsley was derided for being a tackle machine and nothing more...yet Lydiate similarly a tackle machine and no more, is celebrated as a MUST for the lions 6 spot...

Interesting.

If Australia are at least as smart as Wales would they not have deployed the same tactics as Wales in the world cup when they played Ireland two weeks previous to that? It's not like he took them by surprise in the world cup, sob was European player of the year, hardly under the radar! Anyway, I think people are doing him a huge injustice by saying he is just a ball carrier, he's more than that. He was great against Wales this year, he hit everything that moved and his work rate is phenomenal. He needs to be used correctly, I think that's the biggest problem.

Can't agree with anything you've said about O'Brien or Robshaw there Dragonbreath.

Both bring a heck of a lot more to the game than you are giving them credit for.

MDB wrote:Dragonsbreath I Really Cant agree that the only thing SOB brings is ball carrying. His work rate is exceptional, tackle count generally amongst the heighest in the team and does a lot more work at the breakdown than he often gets credit for. Think he is a cert to be in the test 23, though his versatility makes it likely he could be the bench option

He does no more than anyother blind side mentioned, they all tackle etc etc. Much is made of his ball carrying I think too much. He may well make the team who knows, but in the search for a captain, he does not make the grade. If you check that was the theme of the thread, not who is the best BS. I was merely agreeing with the guy who suggested Brown. He is as good as O'Brien and Jones, and better than Robshaw, Wood.

It has been said many times in various threads that the BS is the hardest to pick as there are so many good candidates. By implication therefore there is little to choose between them and the difference in the effectiveness of the team whoever plays will be marginal at best. That being so, pick a BS as captain it makes no difference. Brown makes sense, as I said, from the perspective of a balanced (in terms of nationality) leadership team.

I don't think Brown and Jones are better blindsides than Tom Wood at all, though they do cover other positions to a higher standard. Brown's best form in the Six Nations was as a scavenging openside.