Lions Capt announcement

First topic message reminder :

It seems the only player who will know that he is going on tour prior to the squad being announced is the lions 2013 Tour Captain.

What a huge honour and responsibility to be that man. I would love to have him to dinner and offer him my sister but that's unlikely as i have no sister.

Anyway. There is no obvious candidate and i think that compounds the uncertainty everyone feels about this tour. I was there in 09 for every minute of every Test. We could have won, should have won. Against the mighty Boks POC was the right choice, in the Johnson mould, an abrasive forward who would lead his thin red line into battle like Gordon's Highlander's, carrying into the melee that is a Bok pack.

For me a forward capt is vital for that reason. You need a sentinel who stand out in the siege like atmosphere of a Lions series. Johnson is a RWC winning skipper but for me his zenith was as the winning Capt in 97. 2001 was a great fiasco, a tour we should have won but didn't, 2005 seemed to set a new bar for a fiasco and we all know why. 2009 meanwhile was almost glory.

Personally I think the Wallabies are eminently beatable. There is disarray in camp, the suggestion Deans is a marked man, uncertainty over the real talent in the amazing backline that is, for me, the best in the world. The timing is right. But there are ominous signs for the Lions. Debate over the Capt is the least of our worries; an embarrassment of riches at backrow, a paucity in the centres, no real creativity anywhere. is our plan going to be a la Wales, round the corner bang it up, round the corner bang it up.....my wife complains about variety and now i get it.

If we buy into the weak Aussie pack theory and hope we can destroy them up front then we may just be lead like lambs not Lions, to the slaughter. Ask Wales. If Oz gain any parity up front then their backs are just classier. Natural fleet footed footballing players. We have one, maybe 2 who fit that bill. But BOD's bod is buggered and JD2 is nowhere near the Aussie class on his own. So we have to field a massive aggressive set piece orientated tight 5 and a rampaging back row. I fully expect Tips and Warbs to figure after standing up in that huge 6 Nations decider. Likewise i feel Philips extra physicality at 9 is key, there is no point us even trying to go toe to toe with Genia even if he is just returning.

Ultimately what seems key is the foundation of the touring party and i think the Capt is that foundation. He must not be a squad Capt but a guaranteed starter, a man who will deal on and off the pitch and if necessary, rather as Johnson did, be willing to forego photo opps. I want a guy who is mean, frowning and aggressive and who lets it be known he is there for 1 thing only. The W. For me then it should be POC if he is fully fit. he did a job in SA, has returned to MOM form and has been outside Ireland's camp in this 6 Nations - a clear advantage. i love BOD and considered him but will he even start? Robshaw was up there had Eng won but they didn't. Warbs is no Lions Capt - he should be left to just do his job.

So, over to you...i am sure in the next few days this form will come back to life but in the meantime....................

1. Who SHOULD your Capt be?
2. Who WILL Gats select?
3. Who is your BOLTER Capt?
4. Will there be a squad skipper and if so who?

Riskysports wrote:Not sure POC has done enough yet to be such a shoe in

Has come back from injury and played terrible one week then very good the next

This board really only has the ability to remember the last game!

He has definitly had more than one good game since he came back.

Riskysports wrote:Not sure POC has done enough yet to be such a shoe in

Has come back from injury and played terrible one week then very good the next

This board really only has the ability to remember the last game!

You could play that game with most Lions contenders this year. Very good one or two games.............. then ?????? for a few other games.

Yes, but my pint is he is coming back from injury and has not yet established himself as match fit and consistent

Compared to others who have played all year, and been consistent all season

We jump on band wagons far too easily for my POV

Riskysports wrote:Yes, but my pint is he is coming back from injury and has not yet established himself as match fit and consistent

Compared to others who have played all year, and been consistent all season

We jump on band wagons far too easily for my POV

Disagree. Most players have spent some time sidelined this year. If you are only chosing players that have been consistent all year it would be a fairly short shortlist.

I think Gatland will adopt a common sense spproact to selection and recognise pedigree as well as form.

GunsGerms wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Yes, but my pint is he is coming back from injury and has not yet established himself as match fit and consistent

Compared to others who have played all year, and been consistent all season

We jump on band wagons far too easily for my POV

Disagree. Most players have spent some time sidelined this year. If you are only chosing players that have been consistent all year it would be a fairly short shortlist.

I think Gatland will adopt a common sense spproact to selection and recognise pedigree as well as form.

Sidelined through the year, yes, but not just back to playing

I think he has a great chance to go, but this OP is about captain, which I think he is not the person for it

POC has done enough to pretty much guarantee himself on the plane, however he does need strong performances in the warm-up games to justify a test spot.

All good stuff gents but a reminder

1. Who SHOULD your Capt be?
2. Who WILL Gats select?
3. Who is your BOLTER Capt?
4. Will there be a squad skipper and if so who?

1 Chris Robshaw

2 Sam Warburton

3 Ryan Jones

4 NO.

An important point that has already been raised is the effect that the captaincy has on a player's performance, particularly under pressure.

As brilliant a player as I was (they called me 'Slow Death'' down Guildford way), I never performed anywhere near as well when I was captain as well. Too much to think about, too many distractions.

My point is that some players have been shown to be able to cope with the added pressure, some merely manage, and some fall apart.

1. BOD

2. Warbs

3. Roberts

4. yes

Gats himself is going to Montpelier tomorrow which is a bit odd (you'd think he would want to be in Dublin to watch Sexton & Madigan).

My guess is that he wants to see how his captain is doing!

If BOD is in the squad let alone captain the Lions will lose.

Felt paul o connell yesterday damaged his captaincy credentials, out played by Hines , missed tackles and had a few panic moments.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10022773/British-and-Irish-Lions-2013-Wales-Sam-Warburton-poised-to-be-named-captain-for-tour-of-Australia.html

Linebreaker wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10022773/British-and-Irish-Lions-2013-Wales-Sam-Warburton-poised-to-be-named-captain-for-tour-of-Australia.html

Well that will be a mistake...

Is the Tele a reliable source do you think... or would they throw in a red herring?

Gatland was adamant he wouldn't tell anyone in advance...as he wanted the announcement to be a big thing...not something just confirmed after the gossip guys got it rght.

So straight away, if people are certain its warburton...he has a media leak-dog in his set-up. He won't be pleased if he was honest about not wanting it out.

The Lions............... the controversy begins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *cue Eastender Theme*

SecretFly wrote:Gatland was adamant he wouldn't tell anyone in advance...as he wanted the announcement to be a big thing...not something just confirmed after the gossip guys got it rght.

So straight away, if people are certain its warburton...he has a media leak-dog in his set-up. He won't be pleased if he was honest about not wanting it out.

The Lions............... the controversy begins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *cue Eastender Theme*

Personally think cue Magic Roundabout theme may be more appropriate

It will be BOD. Its makes sense on so many levels for Gats to make him the captain.

Saul Goodman wrote:It will be BOD. Its makes sense on so many levels for Gats to make him the captain.

I agree Saul; the problem is Gatland rarely makes sense

Gatland will pick a forward

I think he'll pick Madigan as surprise captain ........

I bloody won't!

No Pooly?? I thought he was a favourite wild-card of yours? He's promised he'll cut his shaggy bit off if he's let on the plane. Even a co-pilot role isn't beyound his skill set

Go on then, you've twisted my arm. Madigan can be captain

Captain could be a very divisive issue within the squad and I believe Gatland will not run the risk of grumblings of discontent before the squad even departs!
BOD will be captain and will be the starting 13 in the first test (if fit), that you much can take to lehman brothers bank and cash.

BOD and Sexton are the half back axis with BOD being the Captain - Jamie; JD or Mannu to partner BOD with Hogg at FB and North and Cuthbert on the wings

If Hogg is at FB then 1/2 p must be on the wing. Hogg and 1/2 p were the two outstanding backs of the 6Ns

I disagree that Australia are in disarray. Quade Cooper is playing well but so are a lot of other tens. Apart from Pocock there are no injury concerns and the oz super franchises are arguably the most consistent across the board. To me they look strong and no doubt many in the squad will be happy that clown is not in the mix. I'm worried about the rc so I think it's far from an ideal time to face them. That would've been last year and they drew with nz in their last match. No other team in world rugby is as good as hiding their weaknesses and accentuating their strengths as Australia. Their record against South Africa speaks in volumes for that.

Gatland will go for an all Wales back row and war burton will be captain. Not my choice but think that's what he'll do.

If Gatland does that it will be a travesty. Brown is clearly the form player in the back row right now - another good game against Toulon.

I heard that clearly on the radio again this morning (Warburton is captain).

BOD won't be captain, it's a forward

Apart from Pocock there are no injury concerns

And the other 7's they have are as good...so i dont think they'll actually miss him.

Taking the emotion away; if the Captain was one of the following then I think we should have no complaints as each one would be up to the job IMO:

BOD
POC
Warburton
Sexton

Maybe people should keep their whining and whinging until the matches have been played. State your opinions by all means but whine afterwards as each of those players would do a sterling job IMO

Brown - he is the ideal candidate.

Worth his place in the team, on great form, good captain, commands respect but no big ego to nurse. A real team guy.

If he does not go it will be a travesty and he is IMO the best candidate for the captaincy

RubyGuby wrote:

Saul Goodman wrote:It will be BOD. Its makes sense on so many levels for Gats to make him the captain.

I agree Saul; the problem is Gatland rarely makes sense

Telegraph are usually pretty spot on with their rugby rumours to be fair. Their squad announcements are always pretty accurate, so wouldn't be surprised if this is correct.

Wrong call for me. Think he's a far better player without that added responsibility of being Captain and just focusing on his own game.

TJ wrote:Brown - he is the ideal candidate.

Worth his place in the team, on great form, good captain, commands respect but no big ego to nurse. A real team guy.

If he does not go it will be a travesty and he is IMO the best candidate for the captaincy

Agreed

Riskysports wrote:

TJ wrote:Brown - he is the ideal candidate.

Worth his place in the team, on great form, good captain, commands respect but no big ego to nurse. A real team guy.

If he does not go it will be a travesty and he is IMO the best candidate for the captaincy

Agreed

I too would go for Brown, and I actually it would be a less devisive pick. He seems the sort to be a good tourist and I think the squad would want him to do well and unite behind his leadership

Exactly.

dragonbreath wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

TJ wrote:Brown - he is the ideal candidate.

Worth his place in the team, on great form, good captain, commands respect but no big ego to nurse. A real team guy.

If he does not go it will be a travesty and he is IMO the best candidate for the captaincy

Agreed

I too would go for Brown, and I actually it would be a less devisive pick. He seems the sort to be a good tourist and I think the squad would want him to do well and unite behind his leadership

So he brings a toothbrush and the players would want to win the series for him? Hmmm, I think they're a more self-serving bunch than all that dragon They'll be wanting it for themselves.

No Backrow player should be considered for the captaincy as there is just too much competition for places there. I hope Brown travels but not as captain.

BOD would still be my choice but it looks a certainty that it will be warbs at this stage which I just feel is the wrong decision.

MDB wrote:No Backrow player should be considered for the captaincy as there is just too much competition for places there. I hope Brown travels but not as captain.

BOD would still be my choice but it looks a certainty that it will be warbs at this stage which I just feel is the wrong decision.

I agree. You shouldn't shoot yourself in the foot by picking a captain that is not guaranteed to be the best in his position.

Although, we'll all have to get behind him when he's announced as captain tomorrow....

But is Brown not the best? Top tackler in the 6N, second top turnovers playing out of position. He certainly isno weaker than the other candidates and would make a good captain.

Its a real issue in that he is the nearest to a decent candidate for captain and nearly certain for a starting spot. NO one else is in a stronger position to be captain as in sure of their place and a decent captain

I seriously would not be surprised if Brown did not travel.Daft to choose a captain who isn't on the tour!

AGree TJ, there are very few recognisable definate starters...let alone those with captaincy material...so Brown would appear a good choice.

Taffineastbourne wrote:I seriously would not be surprised if Brown did not travel.Daft to choose a captain who isn't on the tour!

If he doesn't even travel then it will be a massive mistake

I don't think Brown will travel, and I certainly don't think he'll be captain.

I think Gatland will go with SOB, Wood, Warburton, Tipuric, Heaslip and Falatau as his 6 back row options, and I think he'd take Lydiate, Robshaw or Croft ahead of Brown were he to take an extra.

Brown is a very consistent player, a hard working and selfless grafter, team man through and through. I'm delighted that he's Scotland captain and he's an essential part of the Scotland and Saracens squad. But I think Gatland will overlook him, and go for more eye catching options in the back row.

The Next Lions Captain is Schmidt!!!! ....oops, sorry got confused there...but I'm so excitrahhh!!!! carry on.

TJ wrote:But is Brown not the best? Top tackler in the 6N, second top turnovers playing out of position. He certainly isno weaker than the other candidates and would make a good captain.

Its a real issue in that he is the nearest to a decent candidate for captain and nearly certain for a starting spot. NO one else is in a stronger position to be captain as in sure of their place and a decent captain

I was thinking of Warburton there, but forgot to mention that to everyone else... Apologies to all the non-psychics out there!

100%beefy wrote:It seems the only player who will know that he is going on tour prior to the squad being announced is the lions 2013 Tour Captain.

What a huge honour and responsibility to be that man. I would love to have him to dinner and offer him my sister but that's unlikely as i have no sister.

Anyway. There is no obvious candidate and i think that compounds the uncertainty everyone feels about this tour. I was there in 09 for every minute of every Test. We could have won, should have won. Against the mighty Boks POC was the right choice, in the Johnson mould, an abrasive forward who would lead his thin red line into battle like Gordon's Highlander's, carrying into the melee that is a Bok pack.

For me a forward capt is vital for that reason. You need a sentinel who stand out in the siege like atmosphere of a Lions series. Johnson is a RWC winning skipper but for me his zenith was as the winning Capt in 97. 2001 was a great fiasco, a tour we should have won but didn't, 2005 seemed to set a new bar for a fiasco and we all know why. 2009 meanwhile was almost glory.

Personally I think the Wallabies are eminently beatable. There is disarray in camp, the suggestion Deans is a marked man, uncertainty over the real talent in the amazing backline that is, for me, the best in the world. The timing is right. But there are ominous signs for the Lions. Debate over the Capt is the least of our worries; an embarrassment of riches at backrow, a paucity in the centres, no real creativity anywhere. is our plan going to be a la Wales, round the corner bang it up, round the corner bang it up.....my wife complains about variety and now i get it.

If we buy into the weak Aussie pack theory and hope we can destroy them up front then we may just be lead like lambs not Lions, to the slaughter. Ask Wales. If Oz gain any parity up front then their backs are just classier. Natural fleet footed footballing players. We have one, maybe 2 who fit that bill. But BOD's bod is buggered and JD2 is nowhere near the Aussie class on his own. So we have to field a massive aggressive set piece orientated tight 5 and a rampaging back row. I fully expect Tips and Warbs to figure after standing up in that huge 6 Nations decider. Likewise i feel Philips extra physicality at 9 is key, there is no point us even trying to go toe to toe with Genia even if he is just returning.

Ultimately what seems key is the foundation of the touring party and i think the Capt is that foundation. He must not be a squad Capt but a guaranteed starter, a man who will deal on and off the pitch and if necessary, rather as Johnson did, be willing to forego photo opps. I want a guy who is mean, frowning and aggressive and who lets it be known he is there for 1 thing only. The W. For me then it should be POC if he is fully fit. he did a job in SA, has returned to MOM form and has been outside Ireland's camp in this 6 Nations - a clear advantage. i love BOD and considered him but will he even start? Robshaw was up there had Eng won but they didn't. Warbs is no Lions Capt - he should be left to just do his job.

So, over to you...i am sure in the next few days this form will come back to life but in the meantime....................

1. Who SHOULD your Capt be?
2. Who WILL Gats select?
3. Who is your BOLTER Capt?
4. Will there be a squad skipper and if so who?

I stand by my assessment; Warbs is a great player but cannot be both Capt and a great player. He is not vocal or aggressive enough to be Capt of a Lions team. I still think POC or AWJ would have been better choices. And already he has made a huge faux pa about leadership in the Welsh contingent. I am sorry to say this does not bode well.