My take on the Lions squad.

First topic message reminder :

Missed the chat as I had to work (Yeah I know that is unbelieveable), so I had a quick squiz over the selections.

Not surprised at seeing the Welsh starters there, but two ommssions glares at you from the monitor.

NO Rory Best, I would love to know how he is overlooked. a 67 match veteran and Gatland decides to leave him at home?

You can almost bet your bottom dollar that Stephen Moore will be the Wallalby hooker, so you want an experienced campaigner to take him on, and when you consider Healy who in my book is the best loose head prop in the home nations is in the squad you would think that it is only common sense to pair him up with Best. Hibbard has not been a regular starter for Wales and has a third of the test experience Best has, Hartley has discipline problems half the time and isn't even in the class of Best.


I think Robshaw is rather unlucky as well.

It is understandable that Gatland has decided to focus most of his squad on Welsh players, in fact most coaches will go with the players they know best and beleive in the most.

Depending on selection it seems the starting 15 might be heavily weighted towards wales which in my humble opinion will not be the way to go.

Wales have had more than enough shots at australia without success, at this point in time I can really only see 4 or so players that Gatland is going to put in his starting XV that will not be welsh.

I don't know we'll have to wait for the first test match.

The only two that are not welsh that I can see Gatland will select at this point in time is Jonny Sexton and Cian Healy.

I definitely think Gatland has misses a trick with making Warburton captain, I don't think he is one of the better back rowers in the home unions and being captain means he must play.

weird.

only if i take my ipad with me mate.....

Biltong, I have to say, your lack of knowledge about Welsh rugby does not give you the right to pour scorn over some of the Welsh players that have been selected. Lydiate I agree is very lucky, but Hibbard is by far and away the best in his postion at the moment.

Linebreaker wrote:Still banging on about that losing series. Load of tosh there GG.

Only tiny bit I agree with is the "if the Lions gel" bit. At present it's all ahead of them. Not sure about any blitzing. The Wallabies are more likely to do some of that. It's more our style after all.

The only way for the Lions to prevail, imo, is if they try to emulate the Ireland RWC group match. Brisbane won't suit them... best chance is in Melbourne perhaps (if they lose the 1st). Either way, Australia will respond accordingly (this time) and it may be a case of "shut the gate..." early on in the series.

Keep your pants on Linebreaker. Of course Ill reference the last series as will lots of pundits and journalists so you should get used to it.

Its not the Wallabies style to blitz anyone. Most matches NH sides v Wallabies are very tight. Getting smashed by France in November and Ireland in the WC being the exceptions.

Not sure why Brisbane wont suit the Lions since they destroyed Australia the last time they played there. No evidence to back up that claim. Brisbane attracted a huge Lions crowd the last time. Given the numbers of Irish in Australia are way more now than then Id expect huge Lions following.

Seriously?

Where have I poured scorn over the Welsh players?

I questioned the experience of Best over Hibbard.
I questioned whether taking a captain who I don't bekieve is the better backrower and his losing streak against OZ.

Please explain?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Guns you need to remember that was an Aus team that had 20+ injuries to contend with. Its going to be a different Aus team with a lot better dept and quality to spring from the bench.

Please expand on what you mean by "that was an Aus team that had 20+ injuries to contend with". What match are you referring to?

Again, it is OK if I say North, Halfpenny and Cuthbert as a combination is the best option (being pro welsh in the back three) but I may not criticise or question other Welsh players.

What the is it with some of you guys?

Bloody well wasting my time, I should learn my lesson, I can criticise any player as long as he is not Wlesh.

Pathetic.

GG, 2001? three series/12 years ago? You conveniently forget how we also blitzed France 59-16.
The 2013 team is potentially better than that.

Wlesh?

Badly informed, opinionated posters on 606 ?
Surely that could never happen ?

Gats is packing out his front row options with no less than 5 English players.
What Bilt, do you make of that ?

gowershowerpower wrote:Wlesh?

typo, flower, unlike your name.

yes, but none of those five to be test starters...
it also helps that the bloke with funny ears whose name makes confectionary is a fat front row english mun. mun.

The line in your origonal article where you say, and I qoute :-

Depending on selection it seems the starting 15 might be heavily weighted towards wales which in my humble opinion will not be the way to go.

I know this is only your humble opinion, but you also said that Hibbard was not a regular starter for Wales, obviously you have not watched many of the Welsh games in the six nations because he started all bar one. So how can you give an opinion when you do not have as much knowledge about the subject as you think you do. Warburton was one of the best players at the WC, you do not lose that ability overnight. He showed in the Scotland and England games that class is permanent, but if you watched those games you would know all this, captain perhaps not, but worthy of a starting place in the first fifteen, you bet your life he is worth it, and when he is on top form there are not many players who can live with him. So there, you have my explanation, no arguments, no sly swipes or name calling, just my explanation.

He was new on the international scene only this 6N, no LD? (excuse my ignorance if this was not the case)

gregortree wrote:Badly informed, opinionated posters on 606 ?
Surely that could never happen ?

Gats is packing out his front row options with no less than 5 English players.
What Bilt, do you make of that ?

Well in my uninformed and opinionated way I thought Healy, Best and Cole is a good selection.

May I say I am not impressed by Hartley, don't want to offend any sensitive English.

Very happy to see Parling and not Botha.

Would like to see O'Connell and Parling as the seocnd row.

From 6 up it gets tricky, might have to select an Irishman, Englishman or teo. So will stop right there.

Linebreaker wrote:GG, 2001? three series/12 years ago? You conveniently forget how we also blitzed France 59-16.
The 2013 team is potentially better than that.

Good thing Australia wont be playing France then. Australia have become a little like France in recent years under Deans, sublime one week, woeful the next.

Australia will have the same team that they sent to the WC more or less with some promising uncapped options.

In the context of saying Brisbane wont suit the Lions I think the 2001 test is relevant.

Biltong wrote:What the is it with some of you guys?

Bloody well wasting my time, I should learn my lesson, I can criticise any player as long as he is not Wlesh.

Pathetic.

Not true Biltong, please don't tar everyone with the same brush.

It's your opinion and most of us on here will accept it in the manner it is given, wleshmen (sic) like myself included. If you, as a generally accepted voice of reason questions the validity of this forum, what the hell chance is there for the rest of us.

LordDowlais wrote:The line in your origonal article where you say, and I qoute :-

Depending on selection it seems the starting 15 might be heavily weighted towards wales which in my humble opinion will not be the way to go.

I know this is only your humble opinion, but you also said that Hibbard was not a regular starter for Wales, obviously you have not watched many of the Welsh games in the six nations because he started all bar one. So how can you give an opinion when you do not have as much knowledge about the subject as you think you do. Warburton was one of the best players at the WC, you do not lose that ability overnight. He showed in the Scotland and England games that class is permanent, but if you watched those games you would know all this, captain perhaps not, but worthy of a starting place in the first fifteen, you bet your life he is worth it, and when he is on top form there are not many players who can live with him. So there, you have my explanation, no arguments, no sly swipes or name calling, just my explanation.

Hibbard over his career as a Welsh international has somthing like 27 caps over I think a six year career (by memory) that is factually correct, how is it criticism with ignorance?

I thought that I was the voice of reason!Who is this imposter???

Linebreaker wrote:He was new on the international scene only this 6N, no LD? (excuse my ignorance if this was not the case)

He was in the grand slam team in 2011 he played all through the world cup and he played in this years six nations, before all this he was on the fringes with Martyn williams ahead of him.

RuggerBoy wrote:

Biltong wrote:What the is it with some of you guys?

Bloody well wasting my time, I should learn my lesson, I can criticise any player as long as he is not Wlesh.

Pathetic.

Not true Biltong, please don't tar everyone with the same brush.

It's your opinion and most of us on here will accept it in the manner it is given, wleshmen (sic) like myself included. If you, as a generally accepted voice of reason questions the validity of this forum, what the hell chance is there for the rest of us.

don't worry mate, I know it isn't everyone, it is just a case when I criticise teams the only one I cop flack for is Wales. They do however accpet the positives I mention with a deadly silence of approval.

GunsGerms wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:GG, 2001? three series/12 years ago? You conveniently forget how we also blitzed France 59-16.
The 2013 team is potentially better than that.

Good thing Australia wont be playing France then.

You brought it up genius... just tapping it back to ya. Keep your head on.

Biltong wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The line in your origonal article where you say, and I qoute :-

Depending on selection it seems the starting 15 might be heavily weighted towards wales which in my humble opinion will not be the way to go.

I know this is only your humble opinion, but you also said that Hibbard was not a regular starter for Wales, obviously you have not watched many of the Welsh games in the six nations because he started all bar one. So how can you give an opinion when you do not have as much knowledge about the subject as you think you do. Warburton was one of the best players at the WC, you do not lose that ability overnight. He showed in the Scotland and England games that class is permanent, but if you watched those games you would know all this, captain perhaps not, but worthy of a starting place in the first fifteen, you bet your life he is worth it, and when he is on top form there are not many players who can live with him. So there, you have my explanation, no arguments, no sly swipes or name calling, just my explanation.

Hibbard over his career as a Welsh international has somthing like 27 caps over I think a six year career (by memory) that is factually correct, how is it criticism with ignorance?

Just because he only has 27 caps to his name, it does not mean that he is not at this moment first choice hooker for his country.

LordDowlais wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:He was new on the international scene only this 6N, no LD? (excuse my ignorance if this was not the case)

He was in the grand slam team in 2011 he played all through the world cup and he played in this years six nations, before all this he was on the fringes with Martyn williams ahead of him.

My apologies then... must have missed him.

LordDowlais wrote:

Biltong wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The line in your origonal article where you say, and I qoute :-

Depending on selection it seems the starting 15 might be heavily weighted towards wales which in my humble opinion will not be the way to go.

I know this is only your humble opinion, but you also said that Hibbard was not a regular starter for Wales, obviously you have not watched many of the Welsh games in the six nations because he started all bar one. So how can you give an opinion when you do not have as much knowledge about the subject as you think you do. Warburton was one of the best players at the WC, you do not lose that ability overnight. He showed in the Scotland and England games that class is permanent, but if you watched those games you would know all this, captain perhaps not, but worthy of a starting place in the first fifteen, you bet your life he is worth it, and when he is on top form there are not many players who can live with him. So there, you have my explanation, no arguments, no sly swipes or name calling, just my explanation.

Hibbard over his career as a Welsh international has somthing like 27 caps over I think a six year career (by memory) that is factually correct, how is it criticism with ignorance?

Just because he only has 27 caps to his name, it does not mean that he is not at this moment first choice hooker for his country.

you still haven't answered me as to how I give my opinion as knowing nothing of welsh rugby which shouldn't allow me to comment on them, or how did you put it, pour scorn over the Welsh players?

It goes without saying Taff, that a Taff anywhere, especially in Eastbourne, will always speak with a voice of reason.....

Linebreaker wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:He was new on the international scene only this 6N, no LD? (excuse my ignorance if this was not the case)

He was in the grand slam team in 2011 he played all through the world cup and he played in this years six nations, before all this he was on the fringes with Martyn williams ahead of him.

My apologies then... must have missed him.

no probs, I bet you here'd about him when he got himself sent off in the SF of the world cup though.

Gatland could hardly not pick mainly Welsh players having won the last two 6N's and just posting the biggest ever win over zenglandbwho finished second.
Wales have lost narrowly to Australia in recent times so it makes sense to have minor tinkering to achieve the desired objective.
It would be a tough sale to make in telling his Welsh players that they would have to make way for players that they had been beating regularly as this would improve the Lions chances of success.

Yes Wales narrowly lost to an Australia team that had over 20 players injured. How encouraging Taff.

"deadly silence of approval"

Biltong wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Biltong wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The line in your origonal article where you say, and I qoute :-

Depending on selection it seems the starting 15 might be heavily weighted towards wales which in my humble opinion will not be the way to go.

I know this is only your humble opinion, but you also said that Hibbard was not a regular starter for Wales, obviously you have not watched many of the Welsh games in the six nations because he started all bar one. So how can you give an opinion when you do not have as much knowledge about the subject as you think you do. Warburton was one of the best players at the WC, you do not lose that ability overnight. He showed in the Scotland and England games that class is permanent, but if you watched those games you would know all this, captain perhaps not, but worthy of a starting place in the first fifteen, you bet your life he is worth it, and when he is on top form there are not many players who can live with him. So there, you have my explanation, no arguments, no sly swipes or name calling, just my explanation.

Hibbard over his career as a Welsh international has somthing like 27 caps over I think a six year career (by memory) that is factually correct, how is it criticism with ignorance?

Just because he only has 27 caps to his name, it does not mean that he is not at this moment first choice hooker for his country.

you still haven't answered me as to how I give my opinion as knowing nothing of welsh rugby which shouldn't allow me to comment on them, or how did you put it, pour scorn over the Welsh players?

Because if you knew, or watched any of the last few games Wales have played, you would have noticed Hibbard started all of them and Warburton was immence. Look if you were on about Lydiate I can agree with you, he should not be in the squad, but the two examples you picked are far wide of the mark. I really do not want to argue over this, I was just pointing out that you were wrong about Hibbard and Warburton.

LordDowlais wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:He was new on the international scene only this 6N, no LD? (excuse my ignorance if this was not the case)

He was in the grand slam team in 2011 he played all through the world cup and he played in this years six nations, before all this he was on the fringes with Martyn williams ahead of him.

My apologies then... must have missed him.

no probs, I bet you here'd about him when he got himself sent off in the SF of the world cup though.

Vaguely... I was still preoccupied with the unexpected loss to Ireland. (ask Guns) That SF was a complete blur!

RuggerBoy wrote:It goes without saying Taff, that a Taff anywhere, especially in Eastbourne, will always speak with a voice of reason.....

Sadly there is a lot of deafness here so a lot of folk are missing out!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Yes Wales narrowly lost to an Australia team that had over 20 players injured. How encouraging Taff.

We had injuries too!

Hmmmm.

Anyhooo. Back to the Lions squad.

I wonder whether Gatland selected Murray because he wants the combination of Sexton and Murray. They will most likely have a better understanding of each others play.

My back three is clear, North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny, although I am happy to see Kearney there, even though I am told he isn't in the best form

As far as midfield is concerned I am not sure what Gatland will do.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Yes Wales narrowly lost to an Australia team that had over 20 players injured. How encouraging Taff.

Wales have narrowly lost to Australia about 6 times in the last couple of years. Australia didn't have injury crises each time. I think the fact that each match Wales were very competitive and came within one score each time shows that they aren't far off Australia's standard.

Roberts and Tuilagi, ROBERTS AND TUILAGI

Biltong wrote:Hmmmm.

Anyhooo. Back to the Lions squad.

I wonder whether Gatland selected Murray because he wants the combination of Sexton and Murray. They will most likely have a better understanding of each others play.

My back three is clear, North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny, although I am happy to see Kearney there, even though I am told he isn't in the best form
As far as midfield is concerned I am not sure what Gatland will do.

Not in good form with Ireland - but then who was? With Leinster, plays a diferent game, is usually in and around the point of the attacking arrow mostly, plays much higher up the field, doesn't sit and wait in full back purgatory like sometimes Halfpenny is asked to do too much in my opinion.

So Kearney is a much more forceful attacking player than when with Ireland...but we all know about Ireland at this stage.

They had an injury crisis for at least 4 of them Guns. They are even better this year with the emergence of Gill, Izzy and Mogg along with JOC and Cooper getting back to their best They are building really good dept now.

I dont thik we realise how good this Aussie team will be

Feel free to shoot me down but I'd be more worried with a Phillips-Sexton starting halves combo. However, I have a feeling Gatland will start with Youngs and Sexton though... Phillips to come on later.

Then Roberts, BOD with North and Cuthbert on the wings, 1/2p fb.
I'd actually be more frightened to see Maitland and Bowe in the starting line-up but one of them will be on the bench anyway.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:They had an injury crisis for at least 4 of them Guns. They are even better this year with the emergence of Gill, Izzy and Mogg along with JOC and Cooper getting back to their best They are building really good dept now.

I dont thik we realise how good this Aussie team will be

Coopers being left out and tought a lesson isn't he? JOC and Harris/Beale being the 10 options!

Cooper will be the 10, mark my words.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:They had an injury crisis for at least 4 of them Guns. They are even better this year with the emergence of Gill, Izzy and Mogg along with JOC and Cooper getting back to his best They are building really good dept now.

I dont thik we realise how good this Aussie team will be

Emergence of untested, uncapped players? The Lions will be quaking in their boots.

All teams get injuries. Its a 3 test series so that's something both sides will have to contend with. Australia did not have a injury crises for 4 of those games anyway.

Cooper has rarely turned up at international level. Why worry about him now?

Biltong wrote:Cooper will be the 10, mark my words.

mmm...

GunsGerms wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:They had an injury crisis for at least 4 of them Guns. They are even better this year with the emergence of Gill, Izzy and Mogg along with JOC and Cooper getting back to his best They are building really good dept now.

I dont thik we realise how good this Aussie team will be

Emergence of untested, uncapped players? The Lions will be quaking in their boots.

All teams get injuries. Its a 3 test series so that's something both sides will have to contend with. Australia did not have a injury crises for 4 of those games anyway.

Cooper has rarely turned up at international level. Why worry about him now?

guns, one thing Cooper has done this season is curb his blunder moments, he has been more consistent and more effective. But then it is his combination with Genia that makes him effective.

GunsGerms wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:They had an injury crisis for at least 4 of them Guns. They are even better this year with the emergence of Gill, Izzy and Mogg along with JOC and Cooper getting back to his best They are building really good dept now.

I dont thik we realise how good this Aussie team will be

Emergence of untested, uncapped players? The Lions will be quaking in their boots.

All teams get injuries. Its a 3 test series so that's something both sides will have to contend with. Australia did not have a injury crises for 4 of those games anyway.

Cooper has rarely turned up at international level. Why worry about him now?

Ha I'm guessing you don't watch super 15 rugby then? Gill at only 20 years old is already better than any 7 in the NH imo. The guy is brilliant and will be a star in this series and yes they did have an injury crisis for 4 of the tests be because 3 of them were in one series in the summer and the fourth was in November if the same year.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:They had an injury crisis for at least 4 of them Guns. They are even better this year with the emergence of Gill, Izzy and Mogg along with JOC and Cooper getting back to his best They are building really good dept now.

I dont thik we realise how good this Aussie team will be

Emergence of untested, uncapped players? The Lions will be quaking in their boots.

All teams get injuries. Its a 3 test series so that's something both sides will have to contend with. Australia did not have a injury crises for 4 of those games anyway.

Cooper has rarely turned up at international level. Why worry about him now?

Ha I'm guessing you don't watch super 15 rugby then? Gill at only 20 years old is already better than any 7 in the NH imo. The guy is brilliant and will be a star in this series and yes they did have an injury crisis for 4 of the tests be because 3 of them were in one series in the summer and the fourth was in November if the same year.

He is certainly not better than any 7 in the NH!!! He's having a good season, and is coming along superbly but Smith will be too popular to see Gill v the Lions, Pocock is going to be a huge miss for Oz, no matter what anyone says!!!

Agree Pocock is a massive loss!! But Gill or Hopper (both fantastic 7s. have to be in ahead of Smith.

Hartley over Best?
Croft over Robshaw?
Stevens over Sheridan?
Parling over Launchbury?
Farrell picked? Warburton captain?

There's always 2017!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Agree Pocock is a massive loss!! But Gill or Hopper (both fantastic 7s. have to be in ahead of Smith.

IMHO they are both twice the player, but the feeling for Smith right now... WOW!!! Watching Super rugby has become comical, Smith takes 3 steps sideways and the pace is still there, makes a pass and he's keeping Pocock out of the side, and if he manages a turnover or penalty he's the player of old and best on the planet. Funny thing is coaches interviews and fanboards are all saying the same thing, Smith for the lions... I hope so!!!

Ha Blue if thats true there may be hope for the lions yet!!