2012/13 Premier League discussion thread. The Final Day and Off Season

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Lets bring her home!

[compelling and rich]

Is Bale really worth 80 million?

Its all relative, he's got plenty of time on his contract. Easily their best player who they are reliant on.

Is he twice the player carrol is, yes easily and the rest

Is he as good as ronaldo, no

But spurs got good track record at getting the most for their players. Think looking at other deals somewhere between 40-60 is his realistic price

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Jesus Navas to Man City for a reported fee of £24 million

[NickisBHAFC]

That would be some signing and would be brilliant to see a player of his quality in the Premiership.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Interesting to see if his homesickness is cured. Interesting one all round. Definitely can't shoot but creates a lot of chances. Seems a more natural wide option for city and I think they need it. Certainly they'll have counter attacking speed.

Bale is worth £50m by my books. Ronaldo was exceptional due to commercial dealings and before the FFP. I would be irritated in Man United if they weren't in for him. He's so typically a united player and I think he'd probably prefer to stay in the country. Bale and Suarez at Real? Would be incredible. Could see the likes of Benzema, Kaka, Pepe and Di Maria joining Higuain on the way out to facilitate a big window.

[Crimey]

A front four of Ronaldo, Suarez, Ozil and Bale is enough to make the eyes water for sure, but I'm not sure the inherently selfish styles of Ronaldo, Suarez and Bale would be able to coexist.

[Guest]

That front four would never happen. Firsty, Ronaldo is due for a new bumper contract, if he agrees, Suarez would be around £40m and then Bale would be in excess of £50m. They also need to agree a financial deal with Ancelotti and pay PSG compensation and then he himself may have his own demands on players. Madrid are not going to go and spend £100m this summer in this economic climate, not going to happen but it would be quite frightening.

[The Special Juan]

And I got moaned at for clearing Navas for a move to a fantasy league last year.......... It'll be interesting to see if he can last a season outside Seville.

[Crimey]

That front four would never happen. Firsty, Ronaldo is due for a new bumper contract, if he agrees, Suarez would be around £40m and then Bale would be in excess of £50m. They also need to agree a financial deal with Ancelotti and pay PSG compensation and then he himself may have his own demands on players. Madrid are not going to go and spend £100m this summer in this economic climate, not going to happen but it would be quite frightening.

Oh yeah, I know it's never going to happen. Just saying that while on paper it looks amazing, in reality I'm not sure the players would mesh.

[lorus59]

If only Navas was a goal keeper, then the headlines would be all about how Jesus saves.

[Duty281]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmnSR0LwiS8

Talksport were right all along! In all seriousness, I think City have overspent, but when are they ever sensible for money?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

2 weeks today the fixtures are announced!!

[VDT]

2 weeks today the fixtures are announced!!

[NickisBHAFC]

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Everton set to announce Martinez as manager

Delay whilst Dave Whelan explains his leg break for one last time to Roberto

[westisbest]

2 weeks today the fixtures are announced!!

Ah good.

I'll be on holiday sunning myself.
First up would love one of in order: Saints(a), only up the road

Fulham(a), enjoy the session before the game(hope sun will be shining).

Palace(a), another London club, vbad memories from when I was last there though.

Saints(h), another weekend up in brum.

Cardiff(a), test ourselves against the champions early, probably stay the night.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I just want a home game first up this season, after having two rather unattractive away games the last two years!

Although we never start the season well, so I guess it'll be better to get someone like a City/Utd/Chelsea out the way early

[VDT]

4-0 win away to Everton would be a perfect start for Moyes

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Liverpool may not have a striker so might be worth getting them early in the season. We never get any points from them anyway so no big impact in defeat. Southampton, Norwich or Villa at home I'd take, our home record is solid so I'd expect to win but I don't want the promoted teams first game cos they sometimes take momentum with em.

[Duty281]

Martinez confirmed as manager of Everton then. Good luck to him.

[The Special Juan]

Is Fernandinho worth £34m?

[NickisBHAFC]

Good to see Roberto Martinez take charge of Everton, chance for him to take his superb managerial career to a next level at a much bigger club.

Fernnandinho worth 34 million, ive heard it all now.

[GSC]

Fernandinho is quality, not worth 34m but Russia/Ukraine/Portugal always hold out for big money.

[Guest]

How much of Fernandinho have you actually seen? He is a fantastic player, box-to-box and will allow, more importantly, Yaya Toure to express himself going forward. Yaya has been so restricted in the past few seasons and always having to come back and support the appaling Gareth Barry. Just because Fernandinho doesn't start for Brazil, does not mean he's unworthy of this move or the price tag. Having seen him play in the Champions League and dominating midfield, especially against Chelsea last season is probably why they are signing him.

[Crimey]

I've heard lots of fees for Fernandinho, £34 million is the highest I've seen, but I've also seen it being reported for as much as £22 million.

It's a much better signing than Rodwell or Garcia, but there is obviously a huge risk involved signing a player who hasn't played league football in any of the top European leagues. He's been a very good player in the Champions League though and on paper is a very good signing. City will be hoping he's not their Veron.

There aren't many better central midfielders who would be available as well.

Good to see City being a bit more proactive in the transfer market this year with Navas and Fernandinho deals almost completely tied up before July. Forces the other big sides into action as well, and should make the transfer market and next season really interesting.

[Guest]

Yeah, City showing their intent and putting pressure on the rest. You can see teams like Liverpool and Tottenham unfortunately drifting away from any kind of realistic Top 4 finish the way the 'big clubs' are going to pounce this summer due to the managerial changes at the top 3 and Arsene's decision to finally go big. Should be a huge summer for transfer fees and City's actions should start a domino effect quite soon.

[Duty281]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22787805

Wonder if he's been promised any funds to challenge the big 5 clubs in England. Immensely difficult, perhaps impossible, otherwise.

[The Special Juan]

Sky were saying £34m I think. Regardless of how good he is, it seems a very large fee for a 28 year old.

[Guest]

Martinez has already made his first mistake. Promising 'Champions League' is just shooting yourself in the foot. They aren't good enough with this current squad, they don't have the finances available and their rivals are going to be spending incredibly big this summer due to the nature of the managerial changes. If anything, Everton will probably lose either Fellaini or Baines and then he will have to bring in four or five players. If we goes back and raids Wigan, then I fear for Everton. Being a key player for Wigan does not mean you are then good enough to play for Everton and challenge for the Top 4.

Pellegrini though is not looking for a long stint at Manchester City in my opinion. He will have the pressure to deliver immediately, regardless of them trying to bring through the youth, which by my understanding is non-existent. Fernandinho is an established player that can deliver now, not a Sinclair or Rodwell who are young and still developing.

[VDT]

Roberto Martinez promises to bring Champions League football to Goodison Park. He plans to have Sky Sports installed by September

[Holymiky]

I see the points about Martinez promising Champions League football but in fairness he did say something along the lines of in the future not necessarily this season and i think it is do-able for sure.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

City always annoyed me with Javi Garcia. Quite evidently a better player than Barry but they played him in such inconsistent patches then seemed annoyed he wasn't running their midfield.

Be really interesting with them when they start selling players.

[mystiroakey]

Martinez should have said any of that.


Everton dont have the spending power or draw surely.

tottenham and liverpool are in stronger positions to challenge..

[MIG]

With a small investment I can see Everton at least staying in the top 6, maybe pushing slightly harder for top 4. Who knows. Managed top 4 with Marcus Bent as a loan striker all season so you never can tell.

[mystiroakey]

Its tougher to get in the top 4 these day than it was to win the Pl in balckburns hey day..

It truely has changed

[MIG]

I'm not so sure. Arsenal got in the top 4 again this year and I think they looked far from convincing. Spurs, although I wouldn't go as far as calling them a one man team were largely carried by Bale especially through the last half of the season. Everton dropped a lot of points needlesly against teams they should have been beating. I don't think it would have taken a huge step up for Everton to have actually qualified this year.

[Crimey]

The last time Everton made the Top 4, they were the only realistic contenders to break the Big Four. Since then Manchester City and Tottenham have both grown considerably into very big sides and sides that are prepared to spend a lot of money.

Liverpool have dropped out of that group, but always look like with a little bit of luck and a good couple signings look they could easily start challenging again. Everton are in one of the worst positions they ever have been to challenge the Top 4, Martinez should be aiming to consolidate a position in the top 8 places.

[MIG]

Why are Everton in the worst position they ever have been? Ok so Martinez replacing Moyes is a risk but who is to say he won't end up being more successful? Apart from that the Everton squad is probably as strong as it ever was at any time during Moyes' reign and there should actually be more money available for transfers than there were in the past due to improved debt management, league placement and improved tv money.

[MIG]

But of course, Liverpool can easily start challenging again. Like last year and the year before and the year before and the year before....

[Crimey]

The top 4 or at least top 5 is getting harder to break into, expecting big summers from Manchester City, Chelsea and Arsenal and that might spur Manchester United into one as well, Tottenham as well. Everton simply don't have the spending power that any of the clubs around them have, and if they lose say Baines and Fellaini, they're really not in a great position unless they can replace them with quality.

Moyes has had Everton punching above their weight for years, they've got a very good first eleven, but extremely poor squad depth and I'd say over the past 8 years they've gotten further away from Champions League qualification rather than closer.

Liverpool are always going to have the potential to rise back up the table, from a purely commercial standpoint they're one of the biggest in the world, if they can keep hold of Suarez they have a genuinely world class player in their ranks as well as an increasingly good squad around him. It might come across as bias, but I genuinely believe Liverpool are in a better position to challenge the top 4 next year than Everton are, if they can keep Suarez.

[MIG]

Money isn't guarenteed success, although I conceed that it gives them a big advantage.
If Baines and Fellaini were sold it would be for large sums of money so could be used to replace them. Fellaini is certainly replacable. Baines not so much I guess.
You don't punch above your weight for 8 years. Maybe 1 or 2 or 3 at max but when you consistetly finish in the top 8 for that many years I'd argue you have already consolidated and established yourself as a top 8 club.
Last 4 seasons if my memory is right Everton finished 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th. Doesn't seem to be getting further away to me.

So Everton finish high up the table (compared to before) for 8 years yet are punching above their weight. Liverpool finish lower down the table for ......how many years now?......yet every year people talk them up to be contenders again.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Seems like Laudrup's history of not sticking around long, and disputes with the clubs he works with could be surfacing again.

Some reckon he could resign over this transfer dispute with Huw Jenkins

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I don't currently like Liverpool and Everton are a clearly better side but I'm with Crimey on this. And it is a money thing. I could see Liverpool attracting a higher class of player if Suarez is sold than Everton will if Baines or Fellaini go. Equally, Liverpool have shown they will invest and I think whether Suarez goes or not they will sign players for decent sums, Everton less likely so.

At the same time though if one of them is going to underperformance and drop out of the top seven then its Liverpool. Mainly cos of their midfield and lightweight side. Eventually Norwich will turn up one game and decide not to just let them win, might blow their minds

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I don't currently like Liverpool and Everton are a clearly better side but I'm with Crimey on this. And it is a money thing. I could see Liverpool attracting a higher class of player if Suarez is sold than Everton will if Baines or Fellaini go. Equally, Liverpool have shown they will invest and I think whether Suarez goes or not they will sign players for decent sums, Everton less likely so.

At the same time though if one of them is going to underperformance and drop out of the top seven then its Liverpool. Mainly cos of their midfield and lightweight side. Eventually Norwich will turn up one game and decide not to just let them win, might blow their minds

Especially if Suarez leaves. Might only be 2/3-0 then

[MIG]

Yes Liverpool will spend more than Everton, I have no doubt of that. Or as you put it, they will sign players for decent sums. Doesn't always mean the players are decent though, just the sums! Apart from Suarez and potentially Coutinho, who have Liverpool signed recently that is actually any good?
When I look at the Liverpool squad apart from Suarez, Gerrard, Coutinho and Enrique I'm very underwhelmed. And out of those 4, 1 is suspended almost as much as he's not, 1 is getting on and 1 hasn't been here long and could have second season syndrome coming up (I actually think Coutinho will be a cracking player)

[Crimey]

Yes Liverpool will spend more than Everton, I have no doubt of that. Or as you put it, they will sign players for decent sums. Doesn't always mean the players are decent though, just the sums! Apart from Suarez and potentially Coutinho, who have Liverpool signed recently that is actually any good?
When I look at the Liverpool squad apart from Suarez, Gerrard, Coutinho and Enrique I'm very underwhelmed. And out of those 4, 1 is suspended almost as much as he's not, 1 is getting on and 1 hasn't been here long and could have second season syndrome coming up (I actually think Coutinho will be a cracking player)

Sturridge got a load of goals for Liverpool. I'm still unsure about him, but I think at the moment that signing has clearly been a short term success.

What about Daniel Agger, I'd say he's up there with the best central defenders in the league, Johnson has improved immeasurably over the past three years and again I'd put him up there in top 3 right backs with Zabaleta and Rafael. Martin Skrtel was considered very good last year, even if he's had a tough year this year and if Lucas can get back to the levels he was at before his two very serious injures then he'll be another good addition to the side. Then you've got Henderson who is getting better and better and Sterling who is a fine prospect, as well as Sturridge. There is definitely the makings of a really good first eleven there with a decent squad emerging as well. I think Everton have been better than Liverpool the last couple of years, but the gap is pretty much non-existent now. I'd say a team made up of both squads would be about equal between them.

[MIG]

Ok I'll give you Sturridge as I'll admit I completely forgot about him. You probably know better than me Crimey being a fan and watching week in week out but as far as I was aware none of your centre backs particularly performed consistently last year and Glen Johnson isn't a defender!!
Apart from a few decent goals I've seen no improvement in Henderson really, certainly not enough to justify the decent sum you paid for him. Sterling, yes, watch this space, he certainly has potential.

But I think you've agreed with me in your post without even realising. Liverpool have the makings of a really good first eleven.....whereas Everton already have a really good first eleven but lack the depth in the squad. I still see Everton being better but we'll see if Liverpool can bridge the gap during the summer I guess.

I'd like to think Everton have enough for two good signings in the summer. Possibly McCarthy from Wigan to replace (long term) Osman and a striker to compete with or replace Jelavic depending on his form.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I do think Everton have the better manager though

[MIG]

I think its very hard to tell with these two particular managers. With Rodgers you could argue the success he had with Swansea was actually partly down to Martinez. With Martinez, on the one hand he's won an FA Cup and plays good football but the tricky one for me is, did he do well to keep Wigan up as long as he did? Or should he have ultimately improved them?
I think they are both now at clubs where they will either prove themselves or not.

[Bull]

United have signed Guillermo Varela apparently

[mystiroakey]

What's happened to the news and current affairs area??

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