Brumbies vs Lions Tuesday

by maestegmafia Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:39 am

First topic message reminder :

[quote="George Carlin"]Brumbies team is up, Maes:

15-Jesse Mogg,
14-Henry Speight,
13-Tevita Kuridrani,
12-Andrew Smith,
11-Clyde Rathbone,
10-Matt Toomua,
9-Ian Prior,

8-Peter Kimlin (captain),
7-Colby Faingaa,
6-Scott Fardy,
5-Sam Carter,
4-Leon Power,
3-Scott Sio,
2-Siliva Siliva,
1-Ruan Smith.

Replacements: 16-Josh Mann-Rea, 17-Jean-Pierre Smith, 18-Chris Cocca, 19-Etienne Oosthuizen, 20-Jordan Smiler, 21-Mark Swanepoel, 22-Robbie Coleman, 23-Zack Holmes.

Lions team: Rob Kearney, Christian Wade, Brad Barritt, Billy Twelvetrees, Shane Williams, Stuart Hogg, Ben Youngs; Ryan Grant, Rory Best (capt), Matt Stevens, Ian Evans, Richie Gray, Sean O'Brien, Justin Tipuric, Toby Faletau

Replacements: Richard Hibbard, Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling, Dan Lydiate, Conor Murray, Owen Farrell, Simon Zebo

This team points to a number of players who must be fringe selections or definitely not going to make it.

by SecretFly Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:42 pm

Nice interview by White.

by Icu Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:42 pm

nathan wrote:@icu

hoe many many months of playing together?

The Brumbies side that played tonight? This team hasn't played together before. They were missing 10 starting players.

by AFewTooManyKnocks Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:42 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Did anyone emerge with credit form that?

The Brumbies..

by aucklandlaurie Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:42 pm

Yes, Jake White and Jesse Mogg.

by fa0019 Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:42 pm

People pretend like this was a bad side.

Gray, O'Brien, Faletau, Tipuric... 4 players in the pack that would make most posters test side a few weeks ago.

Continues our midweek of failing to win all midweek games since 1989.

This was a Saturday game though.... not a Wednesday game. The Schedulers got it dead wrong.
Under White they have been one of the smartest operators in SR.... and are currently top of the table.

by ChequeredJersey Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:43 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Did anyone emerge with credit form that?

Fainga'a, Kimlin, Toomua...

by ChequeredJersey Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:43 pm

Ah I see I was well behind with that gag. Back to learning

by **LondonTiger** Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:44 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Did anyone emerge with credit form that?

From the starting XV ? After the first 50 seconds, no I do not think they did. The guys who arrived yesterday were always going to struggle a little, but there was no excuse for the pack to struggle that badly.

It was interesting how much Faletau improved once the front 5 bar Gray was replaced.

by **RDW** Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:44 pm

OK, any Lions emerge with credit??

by BlueNote Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:45 pm

The back row all went okay. The replacement front row and Zebo did well. Gray wasn't bad. Kearney mostly did well. Nothing wrong with Youngs.

by ChequeredJersey Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:45 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:OK, any Lions emerge with credit??

Sounds like Kearney didn't lose much, Farrell? the subs? Gray in 2nd half?

by Guest Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:47 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Did anyone emerge with credit form that?

Think Faletau did alright like I said.

by **RDW** Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:49 pm

Dare I ask about Super Shane?

by theslosty Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:50 pm

Back row and Kearney were the only players to emerge with anything more than 6/10.

by Icu Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:50 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
Icu wrote:Awesome effort from a 2nd string Brumbies side. They were without Moore, Palmer, George Smith, Pocock, Aluea, White, CL, McCabe and Tomane. I thought the Lions would have performed better despite being a "scratch" team. They are all seasoned internationals with 100's of caps. The Brumbies boasted one international (Kimlin) with a grand total of 2 caps. Another feather in the cap for Jake White.

Well, in this case not quite true, but well done the Brumbies. I am looking forward to seeing what the Aussie backline can do on Saturday. I think this game did matter, as the Aussies will certainly get a boost in confidence

Sorry, my mistake. I was under the impression that the forward pack at least were experienced international players.

by aucklandlaurie Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:50 pm

Personally I thought that the lack of penetration in the Lions pick and goes, especially to the point where they were going backwards showed that this team tonight were well and truely outplayed.

by Guest Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:50 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Dare I ask about Super Shane?

To be fair to him, I don't think he did anything wrong. North would've looked ordinary on that wing tonight.

by aucklandlaurie Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:52 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Dare I ask about Super Shane?

He was the best player on the paddock, just didnt score any of his usual tries.

by propdavid_london Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:53 pm

Shane looked OK in early encounters but tailed off.
Wade looked a touch out of depth.
Hogg didn't work well with the entirely new centre pairing.
It was poor selection that undid them - could have done with some previous experience in that back line!
Kearney has previous but this was his 1st game back after injury.

by propdavid_london Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:54 pm

Best was shown why he wasn't selected in the first squad announcement.

by **RDW** Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:54 pm

I really hope Hogg isn't shell shocked after that and loses all his confidence. Gatland has got to take a lot of responsibility for what happened tonight.

by nathan Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:55 pm

@icu

sorry i meant trained together, learnt about each other. Those brumbies players would of had alot of time together.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:55 pm

Apparently this is the first provincial game the Lions have lost since the defeat by Northern Transvaal in 1997. Well seeing as we won the series in '97, I'm going to be an optimist and say today's result is a good omen.

by R!skysports Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:57 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I really hope Hogg isn't shell shocked after that and loses all his confidence. Gatland has got to take all responsibility for what happened tonight.

100% agree. Gatland should be ashamed of himself today - this has damaged his reputation in my book

Sounds like he will be also joined on the shame step by some of the forwards

by XR Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:07 pm

fa0019 wrote:Continues our midweek of failing to win all midweek games since 1989.

Midwekk team went undefeated in 05...

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:09 pm

gcBlues wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Continues our midweek of failing to win all midweek games since 1989.

Midwekk team went undefeated in 05...

True - the Maori game was on a weekend

by Comfort Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:13 pm

I havent seen any of the game, can someone clarify, by the sounds of it:

Poor:
Best
Stevens
Evans
B Youngs
Barritt
Wade
Williams

Mixed bag:
Grant
Gray
Faleatau
Hogg
Twelvetrees
Kearney

Good:
SOB
Tipuric

With a positive impact from the bench.

by Aelandor Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:17 pm

Wouldn't put Williams as poor. Didn't get much ball on the wing and none of it in any space at all. Tackled fine and even won a high ball.

by Thomond Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:17 pm

I'm a big fan of Tipuric, some good things today but he was killed at the breakdown for the most part, Warburton will start for sure I think.

Not many positives, Youngs and Murray were both shoite, lineout as poor, some poor lifting and horrendous throwing to blame. Most of the guys look like thewy didn't want to be out there.

I'm giving the backs something of a free pass considering most of them have been there a day and only trained once.

by Sin é Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:19 pm

Aelandor wrote:Wouldn't put Williams as poor. Didn't get much ball on the wing and none of it in any space at all. Tackled fine and even won a high ball.

Simon Zebo didn't have any problem getting his hands on the ball.

by BlueNote Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:20 pm

It wasn't so much that individuals were particularly poor (well, Rory Best had a bit of a nightmare), but more that the overall organisation and intensity were lacking. The former was fairly inevitable, and the latter may have been caused by that, partly.
Take Youngs - if he had been behind a dominant pack, that would have been a poor performance, but, seen in context, he did okay.
Faletau did well, along with SOB and Tips.

by Thomond Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:20 pm

Williams is heading home lads, no point arguing about him.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:21 pm

Grant 4 - Was largely anonymous, was pinged a couple of times by Garces
Best 2 - Lineout was a disaster of underthrown or not straight throws. Barely seen outside of the set-piece.
Stevens 2 - Started OK, but after 5 minutes was knackered and rarely seen until he was replaced.
Gray 5 - Looked stronger once the replacements appeared, lack of movement in the lineout made it easier for the Brumbies to get in front of him and steal Best's throws. Decent defensive effort.
Evans 3 - I barely noticed him.
SOB 6 - Put in his tackles, but conceded a few penalties when isolated for holding on.
Tipuric 6 - Made his tackles. Had no positive impact at the breakdown, and too often looked a little lightweight.
Faletau 5 - Was worth a 7 once the replacements came on, but was poor before that.
Youngs 4 - Generally recycled ball quickly, certainly once Brumbies hands were off it. Forwards were giving poor ball, but he needed to do more to protect his novice 10.
Hogg 4 - Gatland should have had a 3rd player in the squad with international experience at 10 if he wanted to rest Farrell and Sexton. Hogg did his best, but positioning was not great, tactical kicking iffy and goal-kicking not good.
Williams 5 - Better than anyone had a right to expect.
Twelvetrees 3 - Performance is excusable as he has barely arrived. He struggled though in the face of aggressive Brumbie defence.
Barritt 4 - Better than Twelvetrees on the day, maybe.
Wade 3 - He is quality, he will star for the lions in 4 years time. This was a big ask and he struggled.
Kearney 4 - Good under the high ball, but too often kicked aimlessly back.

by **RDW** Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:22 pm

Sounds like Hogg had a mare today in some aspect, but were there any positive parts to his game?

by BlueNote Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:22 pm

"Simon Zebo didn't have any problem getting his hands on the ball"

Zebo came into a different game, with the 'proper' front row on and the side a bit more on the front foot. He does look promising, though. There is a real dynamism to him.

Shane did pretty well, particularly considering he won't have played a game of that intensity for ages.

by wales606 Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:23 pm

Lineout and scruum was awful

All the starting front 5 need to take responsibility

Backline was poor/very poor in parts

Replacements made a big difference

If Best gets near the test team, I will be worried

by BlueNote Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:23 pm

Hogg wasn't all bad, but it is unfair to put him in that position. I don't suppose they thought he'd be under quite that much pressure.

by **RDW** Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:25 pm

What's quite worrying is that is probably a similar team to the one that will face the Rebels on Tuesday.

Saying that there will be a lot of players wanting to atone for that performance - particularly since it could be the last time they ever play for the Lions.

by SecretFly Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:28 pm

Comfort wrote:I havent seen any of the game, can someone clarify, by the sounds of it:

Poor:
Best
Stevens
Evans
B Youngs
Barritt
Wade
Williams

Mixed bag:
Grant
Gray
Faleatau
Hogg
Twelvetrees
Kearney

Good:
SOB
Tipuric

With a positive impact from the bench.

I'd say it was moreso an unbalanced team playing a pretty good Aussie outfit. The Lions aren't supermen, as they prove often enough when they play against SH opposition for their respective Nations. I think people are getting a little carried away by the publicity and then become needless disappointed when good players from downunder actually play better rugby.

Hogg should never have been ten. Williams and Wade, cold off a plane and not part of the Lions 'family' feel added little and who can really blame them as individuals. Best was bad - have to admit it...and that throwing issue for him is now a gigantic psychological burden that won't be cured on this tour. It also interferes with the rest of his game as he then tries to overcompensate. I didn't see Faletau until the new recruits came on and then he seemed to want to play.

But mainly I wouldn't blame that team, they didn't pick it, and the players as individuals can all contribute more than that. I'd blame a much too smart "this just might do" gamble by the Lions coaching outfit. In a sense, they did disrespect the strengths of the Brumbies and paid the price. But it isn't a tragedy, it's good for the tour that a side like the Brumbies can come out on top.

by furra_linee Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:31 pm

Hogg didn't do badly. Both himself and Youngs were put under pressure by a badly misfiring pack. What was most noticable was how little he was used off both first and second phases. Wade was used at first receiver at a lineout, and the ball was often cut from Youngs to 36, taken to ground, and then a bosh merchant pushes it up. Then Hogg got hands on it, and usually kicked. At times, though, he looked like an outside back in the way he tried to spark things in open play, and since this was in the 10 channel it didn't work. Once Farrel came on, with the tight 5 subs, things improved, but not by much.

by Comfort Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:34 pm

So more than likely our fears of a cobbled together team being taken apart by a franchise with glory to play for and nothing to lose were brought to the fore.

Well, hopefully this will be the kick up the jacksy for some players.

By the sounds of it the backrow were firefighting the entire game and the backs had little if anything to work with then.

Going down 14-12 with that side probably isnt the worst thing to happen this tour.....

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:34 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:What's quite worrying is that is probably a similar team to the one that will face the Rebels on Tuesday.

Saying that there will be a lot of players wanting to atone for that performance - particularly since it could be the last time they ever play for the Lions.

The Rebels aren't half the team the Brumbies are though, and without JOC, Beale etc there's not much to worry even today's Lions side

by furra_linee Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:34 pm

SOB, Shane, Falutau, Grant, Gray, Kearney, Farrell, Tipuric went about their business pretty well.

by Comfort Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:35 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Comfort wrote:I havent seen any of the game, can someone clarify, by the sounds of it:

Poor:
Best
Stevens
Evans
B Youngs
Barritt
Wade
Williams

Mixed bag:
Grant
Gray
Faleatau
Hogg
Twelvetrees
Kearney

Good:
SOB
Tipuric

With a positive impact from the bench.

I'd say it was moreso an unbalanced team playing a pretty good Aussie outfit. The Lions aren't supermen, as they prove often enough when they play against SH opposition for their respective Nations. I think people are getting a little carried away by the publicity and then become needless disappointed when good players from downunder actually play better rugby.

Hogg should never have been ten. Williams and Wade, cold off a plane and not part of the Lions 'family' feel added little and who can really blame them as individuals. Best was bad - have to admit it...and that throwing issue for him is now a gigantic psychological burden that won't be cured on this tour. It also interferes with the rest of his game as he then tries to overcompensate. I didn't see Faletau until the new recruits came on and then he seemed to want to play.

But mainly I wouldn't blame that team, they didn't pick it, and the players as individuals can all contribute more than that. I'd blame a much too smart "this just might do" gamble by the Lions coaching outfit. In a sense, they did disrespect the strengths of the Brumbies and paid the price. But it isn't a tragedy, it's good for the tour that a side like the Brumbies can come out on top.

Cheers SF

by The Great Aukster Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:36 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I really hope Hogg isn't shell shocked after that and loses all his confidence. Gatland has got to take a lot of responsibility for what happened tonight.

Gatland has to take all the responsibility for what happened tonight.

By selecting Shane for this game he said to the world and more importantly his squad, that this game didn't matter. This was mainly a team of expendables surplus to Test requirements, with maybe a few either/or 'last looks' for the Saturday bench. Given that Gatland could have called up his reinforcements long before the eleventh hour he eventually chose, it has to be assumed that Gatland didn't want this team to have practice time together, (or risk any injury to those they're practising against).

Maybe his rationale was to flush out the individuals who can step up outside the practice framework and so be the ones still in the frame should injury strike the Test starters. Maybe Gatland was even happy that the set-piece didn't work - rolling over weak provincial sides is all well and good through forward dominance but what is really learned about individual resolve? Having blank faces looking at each other wondering what the defensive system is or not able to 'ruck by numbers' may have disqualified rather than promoted contenders, but what the game really proved is that a team beats a collection of individuals.

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:44 pm

fa0019 wrote:Continues our midweek of failing to win all midweek games since 1989.

The midweek side won all its matches in 2005. I suspect you mean all non-Test fixtures (we lost the Maori game in 2005, which was a weekend game and an unofficial fourth Test).

In 2005, the distinction was also clearer because the midweek side had its own coaching team.

by SecretFly Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:45 pm

It's important to note though that these players, sent out as cannon fodder really, shouldn't dip their heads and feel the world is on their case. That's the part I don't like about the way these Lions selections go. If the team is constructed badly, the unfortunate players asked to play in it suffer more as a consequence than a few players getting an armchair ride in a better constructed side.

But the tests can go anyway, and injuries will be almost inevitable. Plus, the winning of a test might be required of a few of the lowly benchers rather than the shiny boys with white teeth who go on first Wink

This ain't over yet...four more games, three full tests. The guys hanging their heads today might be heros come the end.

by bluestonevedder Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:46 pm

Was Wade really as terrible as everyone is making out? It sounded as though he fluffed up the tackle at the begnning, but then made a few half breaks during the rest of the game?

by ChequeredJersey Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:46 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Continues our midweek of failing to win all midweek games since 1989.

The midweek side won all its matches in 2005. I suspect you mean all non-Test fixtures (we lost the Maori game in 2005, which was a weekend game and an unofficial fourth Test).

In 2005, the distinction was also clearer because the midweek side had ~~its own~~ some coaching ~~team~~.

by ChequeredJersey Tue 18 Jun 2013, 1:48 pm

SecretFly wrote:It's important to note though that these players, sent out as cannon fodder really, shouldn't dip their heads and feel the world is on their case. That's the part I don't like about the way these Lions selections go. If the team is constructed badly, the unfortunate players asked to play in it suffer more as a consequence than a few players getting an armchair ride in a better constructed side.

But the tests can go anyway, and injuries will be almost inevitable. Plus, the winning of a test might be required of a few of the lowly benchers rather than the shiny boys with white teeth who go on first

This ain't over yet...four more games, three full tests. The guys hanging their heads today might be heros come the end.

It's worth remembering that if we've picked up this many injuries before the Tests have even started, with certain players being protected, we are likely to suffer more in T1 and T2. Lions Test rugby will be a step up in intensity

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