Brumbies vs Lions Tuesday

by maestegmafia Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:39 am

First topic message reminder :

[quote="George Carlin"]Brumbies team is up, Maes:

15-Jesse Mogg,
14-Henry Speight,
13-Tevita Kuridrani,
12-Andrew Smith,
11-Clyde Rathbone,
10-Matt Toomua,
9-Ian Prior,

8-Peter Kimlin (captain),
7-Colby Faingaa,
6-Scott Fardy,
5-Sam Carter,
4-Leon Power,
3-Scott Sio,
2-Siliva Siliva,
1-Ruan Smith.

Replacements: 16-Josh Mann-Rea, 17-Jean-Pierre Smith, 18-Chris Cocca, 19-Etienne Oosthuizen, 20-Jordan Smiler, 21-Mark Swanepoel, 22-Robbie Coleman, 23-Zack Holmes.

Lions team: Rob Kearney, Christian Wade, Brad Barritt, Billy Twelvetrees, Shane Williams, Stuart Hogg, Ben Youngs; Ryan Grant, Rory Best (capt), Matt Stevens, Ian Evans, Richie Gray, Sean O'Brien, Justin Tipuric, Toby Faletau

Replacements: Richard Hibbard, Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling, Dan Lydiate, Conor Murray, Owen Farrell, Simon Zebo

This team points to a number of players who must be fringe selections or definitely not going to make it.

by GunsGerms Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:21 pm

Clyde Rathbone is still playing rugby?!? Where has he been?

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:32 pm

Injury forced him to retire... then he got severe depression and blew up weight wise. Reapplied himself and got back into the brumbies after a few years out.

People here call it Karma. Perhaps a little harsh but slightly understandable.

by GunsGerms Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:34 pm

fa0019 wrote:Injury forced him to retire... then he got severe depression and blew up weight wise. Reapplied himself and got back into the brumbies after a few years out.

People here call it Karma. Perhaps a little harsh but slightly understandable.

A bit harsh given he did have an Australian parent didnt he?

by GunsGerms Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:36 pm

Spoiler:

Jeez just looked at the pictures. Incredible transformation. Theres hope for us all.

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:44 pm

It was his grandmother but the rest of his ties were fully south african and he was a born and raised South African... I don't think he or his family had even been to AUS or had any family in AUS to go to before he began his rugby career/left for the brumbies.

He was captain of the U21s which won the JRWC and many saw him as a future star. To a Saffa that is sacred... you don't take the springbok and then disgard it... if he was intent on playing for AUS he should have done so from turning 18 and pro (which he didn't).

I understand why he did so... he guaranteed the future of his family as they all came out with him.

Imagine BOD had an english born granny and played all the way up to senior with Leinster and Ireland up to U21 but then chose to play for England because he thought he would more likely win a RWC winners medal with them then Ireland... would you be peeved?

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:49 pm

I forgot one thing... he was tapped up at the JRWC final function afterwards. His agent let the ARU know about his situation and they were ready. It was rather cynical and behind closed doors stuff. Its quite public this stuff.

by GunsGerms Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:54 pm

fa0019 wrote:It was his grandmother but the rest of his ties were fully south african and he was a born and raised South African... I don't think he or his family had even been to AUS or had any family in AUS to go to before he began his rugby career/left for the brumbies.

He was captain of the U21s which won the JRWC and many saw him as a future star. To a Saffa that is sacred... you don't take the springbok and then disgard it... if he was intent on playing for AUS he should have done so from turning 18 and pro (which he didn't).

I understand why he did so... he guaranteed the future of his family as they all came out with him.

Imagine BOD had an english born granny and played all the way up to senior with Leinster and Ireland up to U21 but then chose to play for England because he thought he would more likely win a RWC winners medal with them then Ireland... would you be peeved?

Happens to two of Irelands best cricket players.

Eoin Morgan & Ed Joyce.

The British Olympic counsel tried to poach our best boxer for the last Olympics.

Brian Carney, rugby league played for GB.

Rory McIlroy has represented Ireland in golf but probably will end up representing GB at the next olympics.

Doesnt seem to happen at all in rugby though.

by Submachine Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:57 pm

I don't see any candidates from the back three players in this squad for the test squad.
If all fit
11. North 14. Bowe 15. Halfpenny 23. Hogg
If North out
11. Maitland/Cuthbert 14. Bowe 15. Halfpenny 23. Hogg
If North and Bowe out
11. Maitland 14. Cuthbert 15. Halfpenny 23. Hogg

This is not necessarily my choice. Just what I think will happen based on squad for tomorrow, previous performances and pecking order of players not in original squad.

by GunsGerms Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:58 pm

fa0019 wrote:I forgot one thing... he was tapped up at the JRWC final function afterwards. His agent let the ARU know about his situation and they were ready. It was rather cynical and behind closed doors stuff. Its quite public this stuff.

Yes I remember it was a little contraversial alright.

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:59 pm

I feel for McIIroy... so difficult. Either way it will cause problems. I think it would be best if he didn't at all.... he would get so much grief either or and alienate one group of fans over the other that I think it could mentally have a big toll on him. Golf is never about the best man either.

I guess Carney, Morgan et al is not so bad as Ireland are near novices in their respected sports compared. Whereas Rathbone swapped SA for AUS.... 2 of the giants of the game.

by GunsGerms Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:08 pm

fa0019 wrote:I feel for McIIroy... so difficult. Either way it will cause problems. I think it would be best if he didn't at all.... he would get so much grief either or and alienate one group of fans over the other that I think it could mentally have a big toll on him. Golf is never about the best man either.

Agreed.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:18 pm

If he represents GB&NI he woul dupset one group of supporters in Ireland, but representing Ireland upsets another group. Represent neither and he misses a massive opportunity.

Him and McDowell asked the IOC to make the decision, but the deferred it back to the players. Probably best all round if, were they to play, they opted to represent Ireland.

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:21 pm

What happens to Ulster players in the next Oylmpics?

Obviously England, Scotland and Wales will join up for that (assume to wear the red of the lions).... will Ulster players be available for this and if so will the IRFU agree?

by Sin é Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:27 pm

fa0019 wrote:I feel for McIIroy... so difficult. Either way it will cause problems. I think it would be best if he didn't at all.... he would get so much grief either or and alienate one group of fans over the other that I think it could mentally have a big toll on him. Golf is never about the best man either.

I guess Carney, Morgan et al is not so bad as Ireland are near novices in their respected sports compared. Whereas Rathbone swapped SA for AUS.... 2 of the giants of the game.

McIlroy is just annoying now becuause HE keeps bringing it up. He should follow Gmac's example and just shut up about it.

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:32 pm

probably because he always gets asked the question in fairness Sin e.

by Sin é Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:33 pm

fa0019 wrote:What happens to Ulster players in the next Oylmpics?

Obviously England, Scotland and Wales will join up for that (assume to wear the red of the lions).... will Ulster players be available for this and if so will the IRFU agree?

Why would the Ulster players join up with the UK? They will likely be ignored for all the English/Welsh players as happens with the Lions.

by Sin é Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:35 pm

fa0019 wrote:probably because he always gets asked the question in fairness Sin e.

No he isn't always asked about it. He brings it up. I think he is probably working to representing the USA (along with Tiger!) Good luck to him.

by GunsGerms Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:38 pm

fa0019 wrote:What happens to Ulster players in the next Oylmpics?

Obviously England, Scotland and Wales will join up for that (assume to wear the red of the lions).... will Ulster players be available for this and if so will the IRFU agree?

You mean in 7s?

Ireland (including NI) dont have any 7s players so none would get picked anyway.

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:38 pm

I don't think Ireland have done that badly come the lions... had the most represenatives in the last tour, good representation this time (especially given they did so poorly in the 6N). In the end its all about who fits.. not the best 4 from each nation and then 3 of the best individuals.

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:41 pm

Guns... never occurred to me. Checked and was quite surprised. Amazing given the backs and flankers quality Ireland has.

by Sin é Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:46 pm

fa0019 wrote:I don't think Ireland have done that badly come the lions... had the most represenatives in the last tour, good representation this time (especially given they did so poorly in the 6N). In the end its all about who fits.. not the best 4 from each nation and then 3 of the best individuals.

Northern Ireland born players who would have an option have done very badly with the Lions - I think Stephen Ferris is the only player to get a call since 2001 (Bowe is from ROI part of Ulster) (Rory Best is a late call-up).

by Sin é Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:47 pm

fa0019 wrote:Guns... never occurred to me. Checked and was quite surprised. Amazing given the backs and flankers quality Ireland has.

Ireland don't have the strength (or finances) to run a 7s team.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:54 pm

undefined wrote:Sin é
fa0019 wrote:I don't think Ireland have done that badly come the lions... had the most represenatives in the last tour, good representation this time (especially given they did so poorly in the 6N). In the end its all about who fits.. not the best 4 from each nation and then 3 of the best individuals.

Northern Ireland born players who would have an option have done very badly with the Lions - I think Stephen Ferris is the only player to get a call since 2001 (Bowe is from ROI part of Ulster) (Rory Best is a late call-up).

So who hasn't been called up that should have been? I'm still not buying that anyone from Northern Ireland has been hard done by in terms of the Lions.

by Sin é Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:57 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:
undefined wrote:Sin é
fa0019 wrote:I don't think Ireland have done that badly come the lions... had the most represenatives in the last tour, good representation this time (especially given they did so poorly in the 6N). In the end its all about who fits.. not the best 4 from each nation and then 3 of the best individuals.

Northern Ireland born players who would have an option have done very badly with the Lions - I think Stephen Ferris is the only player to get a call since 2001 (Bowe is from ROI part of Ulster) (Rory Best is a late call-up).

So who hasn't been called up that should have been? I'm still not buying that anyone from Northern Ireland has been hard done by in terms of the Lions.

I wouldn't think they have been hard done by (with possibly the exception of Rory Best and maybe David Humphreys in 2001). They would have a better chance of making an Irish team though than a UK team.

by broadlandboy Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:00 pm

IIRC Anyone from Northern Ireland can choose to represent either GB & NI or Ireland at the Olympics. It is a personal choice.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:01 pm

Sorry, I took you saying that Northern Irish players have done badly with the Lions to mean that you felt they were hard done by. From your last response I am taking it you mean they just haven't fared very well for whatever reason.

by Thomond Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:03 pm

GunsGerms

undefined wrote:
fa0019 wrote:It was his grandmother but the rest of his ties were fully south african and he was a born and raised South African... I don't think he or his family had even been to AUS or had any family in AUS to go to before he began his rugby career/left for the brumbies.

He was captain of the U21s which won the JRWC and many saw him as a future star. To a Saffa that is sacred... you don't take the springbok and then disgard it... if he was intent on playing for AUS he should have done so from turning 18 and pro (which he didn't).

I understand why he did so... he guaranteed the future of his family as they all came out with him.

Imagine BOD had an english born granny and played all the way up to senior with Leinster and Ireland up to U21 but then chose to play for England because he thought he would more likely win a RWC winners medal with them then Ireland... would you be peeved?

Happens to two of Irelands best cricket players.

Eoin Morgan & Ed Joyce.

The British Olympic counsel tried to poach our best boxer for the last Olympics.

Brian Carney, rugby league played for GB.

Rory McIlroy has represented Ireland in golf but probably will end up representing GB at the next olympics.

Doesnt seem to happen at all in rugby though.

Cricket and rugby league are a somewhat different case to that now to be fair. Ireland aren't a test cricket nation (you could probably make a nargument for them being one but I don't know enough about it to say they should or shouldn't), so the pinnacle of their sport is playing for England, similar enough in rugby league I suppose, we have a team but to play in some of the best tournaments, you would probably need to play for team GB. The McIllroy situation could get ugly, and will be a big topic, it's up to the guy himself, as a member of the GUI I think he should play for Ireland but I will support him and the other NI golfers regardless. If you're born on the island of Ireland you eitherp lay for Ireland (or some other country you're qualified for) or you don't. It's an all island organisation so that's it. Obviously changes for the Olympics but as Ireland probably won;t have a 7s team at it I would say it's moot.

by Sin é Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:07 pm

Thomond - what would you think of McIlroy playing for the US.

(by the way, McIlroy has pointed out that it is his decision which he wants to make which would suggest he doesn't want to play for Ireland).

GMac said he would prefer if the Olympic Council would make the decision for him (which is the diplomatic thing to say and do if you don't want to offend anyone).

by Sin é Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:09 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Sorry, I took you saying that Northern Irish players have done badly with the Lions to mean that you felt they were hard done by. From your last response I am taking it you mean they just haven't fared very well for whatever reason.

Yes - and so they would fare better with Ireland (though from reading Moss Keane's Memoir, there is no love lost between the NI players and England!).

by Thomond Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:14 pm

Presume you mean UK? Haven't heard anything about him playing for America, if that is what you mean I think I would be more pished off about that as he doesn't have the balls to plump for Britain. I would be disappointed naturally but it's up to the guy himself and it's his right to do so, he would be behind the Irish guys playing in terms of my support but would be first up after.

GMac's always been more lower profile from what I have seen, Lives in Orlando and doesn't tend to get much press although he has won a major he wasn't exactly the box office draw and superstar McIllroy was touted to (and could still) be.

by **Notch** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:28 pm

McIlroy is very different to Rathbone. He is both British AND Irish by right of where he was born.

My dad gets asked the British or Irish question a lot when he is overseas; he chooses to explain it by saying that one of his children has an Irish passport, one has both, and one has only a British one- and she's the one who is about to have a child in Dublin who will be Irish, taking after her Uncles. Less so her parents, unless my big sis picks up a different set of forms next time her passport expires (The Irish passport is cheaper but the British one gets sent out a lot quicker). Isn't it wonderful to have such a multinational family? And all born in the same hospital. Smile

A reminder that all nationality is really is a bit of a legalese based on (often disputed) interpretations of geography.

One thing is for sure; McIlroy stands to upset morons and only morons, who can't get it through their heads that he is representing Northern Ireland in whatever guise he chooses. I doubt it will make the difference people think it will. Last year plenty celebrated the success of athletes from both Team Ireland and Team GB if they were on the only team that counts.

G'wan Team Nordie!

by dragonbreath Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:37 pm

I am frankly disgusted as the lack of respect being shown to Shane Williams. He is one of the greatest players of his or indeed any generation and will be a better player than Maitland and Zebo when he is 66 never mind 36.

In a few years time people will be saying Zewho? Maitland, sorry don't remember him

Have respect you muppets

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:38 pm

dragonbreath wrote:I am frankly disgusted as the lack of respect being shown to Shane Williams. He is one of the greatest players of his or indeed any generation and will be a better player than Maitland and Zebo when he is 66 never mind 36.

In a few years time people will be saying Zewho? Maitland, sorry don't remember him

Have respect you muppets

Do you see what you did there?

by Thomond Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:41 pm

The ironing is delicious.

by dragonbreath Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:44 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:I am frankly disgusted as the lack of respect being shown to Shane Williams. He is one of the greatest players of his or indeed any generation and will be a better player than Maitland and Zebo when he is 66 never mind 36.

In a few years time people will be saying Zewho? Maitland, sorry don't remember him

Have respect you muppets

Do you see what you did there?

Apart from posting on the wrong thread No. You will have to tell me

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:47 pm

You made a fairly good point about Shane Williams deserving more respect than he was being given by some posters then finished off your post by being thoroughly disrespectful about 2 young wingers, both Shane-esque mazy runners in their own manner as it happens, then highlighted the hypocrisy (and destroyed the credibility) of your post with your final sentence

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:47 pm

Borderline genius actually

by dragonbreath Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:56 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:You made a fairly good point about Shane Williams deserving more respect than he was being given by some posters then finished off your post by being thoroughly disrespectful about 2 young wingers, both Shane-esque mazy runners in their own manner as it happens, then highlighted the hypocrisy (and destroyed the credibility) of your post with your final sentence

Oh I see. Firstly comparing those two to Shane and even implying that they are in the same class is frankly ridiculous and secondly had I wrote what I really thought it would have come out as Poopieheads or something. So I thought I would save them the trouble of cleaning it up. If its good enough for Del Boy its good enough for me. Though to keep you happy I will use profanities in future

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:59 pm

Well, glad to see you learnt your lesson then Rolling Eyes

by Jenifer McLadyboy Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:04 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:You made a fairly good point about Shane Williams deserving more respect than he was being given by some posters then finished off your post by being thoroughly disrespectful about 2 young wingers, both Shane-esque mazy runners in their own manner as it happens, then highlighted the hypocrisy (and destroyed the credibility) of your post with your final sentence

Oh I see. Firstly comparing those two to Shane and even implying that they are in the same class is frankly ridiculous and secondly had I wrote what I really thought it would have come out as Poopieheads or something. So I thought I would save them the trouble of cleaning it up. If its good enough for Del Boy its good enough for me. Though to keep you happy I will use profanities in future

Can some mods revert to the old quoting function as a lot of people are too stupid to use the new one, and embed their response in to the quote.

by GunsGerms Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:05 pm

fa0019 wrote:Guns... never occurred to me. Checked and was quite surprised. Amazing given the backs and flankers quality Ireland has.

Its a tiny country Fa. IRFU only generate enough revenue to support the 15 man game. They feel 7s in Ireland wouldn't be able to support itself

by Thomond Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:05 pm

I've been wondering how to use it, haven't logged on since the system change, annoying the shoite out of me.

by wales606 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:10 pm

Thomond wrote:The ironing is delicious.

Don't eat the ironing, you will have to buy a lot more clothes...learnt that the hard way.

by GunsGerms Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:15 pm

Notch wrote:McIlroy is very different to Rathbone. He is both British AND Irish by right of where he was born.

My dad gets asked the British or Irish question a lot when he is overseas; he chooses to explain it by saying that one of his children has an Irish passport, one has both, and one has only a British one- and she's the one who is about to have a child in Dublin who will be Irish, taking after her Uncles. Less so her parents, unless my big sis picks up a different set of forms next time her passport expires (The Irish passport is cheaper but the British one gets sent out a lot quicker). Isn't it wonderful to have such a multinational family? And all born in the same hospital.

A reminder that all nationality is really is a bit of a legalese based on (often disputed) interpretations of geography.

One thing is for sure; McIlroy stands to upset morons and only morons, who can't get it through their heads that he is representing Northern Ireland in whatever guise he chooses. I doubt it will make the difference people think it will. Last year plenty celebrated the success of athletes from both Team Ireland and Team GB if they were on the only team that counts.

G'wan Team Nordie!

Its not as simple as that unless you are from NI and have dual nationality. McIlroy has played for Ireland all his life and as he says himself he is a product of the GUI, therefore you don't have to be a moron to from Ireland to have supported him his whole pro life and to feel disappointed if he represents another country. Its a fairly logical feeling.

That's not to say I wouldn't understand and respect his decision.

by Sin é Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:34 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:You made a fairly good point about Shane Williams deserving more respect than he was being given by some posters then finished off your post by being thoroughly disrespectful about 2 young wingers, both Shane-esque mazy runners in their own manner as it happens, then highlighted the hypocrisy (and destroyed the credibility) of your post with your final sentence

Shane Williams deserves no respect after his attempt at destroying Marcus Horan's reputation to save an Osprey's player a few weeks ban. Luckily he was caught out (he is a bit thick as well - from video evidence it was proven that Williams was no where near enough to have actually heard what Horan said). Unfortunately he has never had the guts to apologise to Marcus Horan.

2004: Shane Williams v Marcus Horan

After an ill-tempered Heineken Cup clash between the Ospreys and Munster, the Welsh side made a false claim that Marcus Horan had racially abused centre Elvis Seveali'i, with the Samoan's claims backed up by Wales star Williams at an ERC hearing. Though the accusation was thrown out, before the rematch Horan spoke about the pain the incident had caused him. "I haven't spoken to Elvis Seveali'i since the incident and I actually wouldn't bother going near him or Shane Williams. They didn't have the guts or the balls to look me in the eyes when they were spouting lies, so I don't think I would give them the time of day."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/irish-news/when-red-and-green-collide-26522150.html

For the record, a tv mike on the site line picked up what Horan did say. After that an independent citing commissioner was introduced.

by **Notch** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:39 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Its not as simple as that unless you are from NI and have dual nationality.

Exactly like Rory McIlroy, then. Cheers!

I want him to play for Ireland too (I'm the son with the Irish passport btw), but he's never had this choice before. All his competing for Ireland has been done in competitions where Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales compete as seperate nations. Thats different. And less divisive.

I believe this is how it should be and come the Olympics, I only really take a kind of benevolent indifference to Brits from the other three countries- I support the Scots most of all contingent of Team GB as I spent so long living there behind the Irish but there's no other sport where there's a UK team so I have a hard time caring too much about the English and Welsh olympians. Still support them more than other countries but not really too bothered.

But more than wanting him to play for Ireland, I want him to make his own choice and it to be respected and honoured by his fans. On a purely personal note I look forward to the day when we can have Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales in the Olympics.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:55 pm

If we do that we could add the Isle of Man, they have at least one potential medalist!

by **Notch** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:59 pm

CJ wrote:If we do that we could add the Isle of Man, they have at least one potential medalist!

Aye

Truth is, my solution would cause untold uproar and controversy and there'll still be areas where it doesn't work like some parts of the North (our North, not yours) and the Isle of Mann. Oh, the UK and Ireland. We're very confused. Very confused.

Ah lets forget it!

by Sin é Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:22 pm

Notch wrote:
But more than wanting him to play for Ireland, I want him to make his own choice and it to be respected and honoured by his fans. On a purely personal note I look forward to the day when we can have Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales in the Olympics.

I don't want him to represent Ireland - we can do without him. It should be an honour to represent any country (be it GB, Ireland or UK), not an honour for any of these countries to be represented by McIlroy.

While I'm on a my rant ... anyone else find this attitude that some Nordies have that they's take the Irish passport as its cheaper etc. etc. or the UK passport because its quicker. It really is disrespectful to both countries.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:24 pm

Gents, take this as a gentle reminder, this is a rugby forum. Perhaps if you wish to discuss this particular issues one of the other forums within the site would be more appropriate.

by Sponsored content