AUSTRALIA v B&I LIONS - TEAMS FOR 2ND TEST

by alive555 Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:24 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:British & Irish Lions
15 Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues, Wales)
14 George North (Scarlets, Wales)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster, Ireland)
12 Jonathan Davies Scarlets, Wales)
11 Tommy Bowe (Ulster, Ireland)
10 Jonathan Sexton (Leinster, Ireland)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, England)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster, Ireland)
7 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, Wales, Cap)
6 Dan Lydiate (Newport G Dragons, Wales)
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, England)
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, Wales)
3 Adam Jones (Ospreys, Wales)
2 Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, England)
1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England)

16 Richard Hibbard (Ospreys, Wales)
17 Ryan Grant (Glasgow, Scotland)
18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, England)
19 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers, England)
20 Sean O'Brien (Leinster, Ireland)
21 Conor Murray (Munster, Ireland)
22 Owen Farrell (Saracens, England)
23 Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues, Wales)

Australia
15 Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels)
14 Israel Folau (NSW)
13 Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW)
12 Christian Leali'ifano (ACT Brumbies)
11 Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
10 James O'Connor (Melbourne Rebels)
9 Will Genia (Reds)
8 Wycliff Palu (NSW)
7 Michael Hooper (NSW)
6 Ben Mowen (ACT)
5 Kane Douglas (NSW)
4 James Horwill (Reds - Cap)
3 Ben Alexander (ACT)
2 Stephen Moore (ACT)
1 Benn Robinson (NSW)

16 Saia Fainga'a (Reds)
17 James Slipper (Reds)
18 Sekope Kepu (NSW)
19 Rob Simmons (Reds)
20 Liam Gill (Reds)
21 Nick Phipps (Rebels)
22 Rob Horne (NSW)
23 Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

So that's it folks
Representation Split
9 Wales - 3 Cardiff Blues, 2 Ospreys, 2 Scarlets, 1 NG Dragons
7 England - 5 Leicester, 2 Saracens
6 Ireland - 4 Leinster, 1 Munster, 1 Ulster
1 Scotland - 1 Glasgow

That's FIVE CHANGES for Saturday's second Test in Melbourne. Two positional Lydiate in and Croft dropping to the bench, while Bowe replaces the unlucky Cuthbert who is benched with Maitland dropping out after ironically his best game on Tuesday. Injuries see Ben Youngs replaces Mike Phillips at scrum-half, while lock Geoff Parling and prop Mako Vunipola step in for the injured Paul O'Connell and Alex Corbisiero.

Nothing unexpected but Gatland has laid his cards on the table, he is shoring up the defence with Bowe and Lydiate, whilst possibly the shock coming in with Mako Vunipola starting at Loose Head instead of Ryan Grant. The bench however is a different story with no specialist cover at Lock, Centre, or Full Back, and no enterprise, versatility, or speed on the bench with Evans, Gray, Tuilagi, Hogg, Maitland all not considered.

Come on the Lions ROOOAR

by B91212 Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:31 pm

So no Mike Phillips who is 'injured'. Pretty surprised at that. Youngs starts with Murray on the bench.
Bowe, Parling & Vunipola for Cuthbert, O'Connell & Corbiserio as expected.
Lydiate in for Croft who drops to the bench as second row cover.
O'Brien on the bench to replace Lydiate.

Overall impression is one of Shocked

by flyhalffactory Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:14 pm

British & Irish Lions
15 Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues, Wales)
14 George North (Scarlets, Wales)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster, Ireland)
12 Jonathan Davies Scarlets, Wales)
11 Tommy Bowe (Ulster, Ireland)
10 Jonathan Sexton (Leinster, Ireland)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, England)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster, Ireland)
7 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, Wales, Cap)
6 Dan Lydiate (Newport G Dragons, Wales)
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, England)
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, Wales)
3 Adam Jones (Ospreys, Wales)
2 Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, England)
1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England)

16 Richard Hibbard (Ospreys, Wales)
17 Ryan Grant (Glasgow, Scotland)
18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, England)
19 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers, England)
20 Sean O'Brien (Leinster, Ireland)
21 Conor Murray (Munster, Ireland)
22 Owen Farrell (Saracens, England)
23 Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues, Wales)

Australia
15 Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels)
14 Israel Folau (NSW)
13 Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW)
12 Christian Leali'ifano (ACT Brumbies)
11 Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
10 James O'Connor (Melbourne Rebels)
9 Will Genia (Reds)
8 Wycliff Palu (NSW)
7 Michael Hooper (NSW)
6 Ben Mowen (ACT)
5 Kane Douglas (NSW)
4 James Horwill (Reds - Cap)
3 Ben Alexander (ACT)
2 Stephen Moore (ACT)
1 Benn Robinson (NSW)

16 Saia Fainga'a (Reds)
17 James Slipper (Reds)
18 Sekope Kepu (NSW)
19 Rob Simmons (Reds)
20 Liam Gill (Reds)
21 Nick Phipps (Rebels)
22 Rob Horne (NSW)
23 Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

So that's it folks
Representation Split
9 Wales - 3 Cardiff Blues, 2 Ospreys, 2 Scarlets, 1 NG Dragons
7 England - 5 Leicester, 2 Saracens
6 Ireland - 4 Leinster, 1 Munster, 1 Ulster
1 Scotland - 1 Glasgow

That's FIVE CHANGES for Saturday's second Test in Melbourne. Two positional Lydiate in and Croft dropping to the bench, while Bowe replaces the unlucky Cuthbert who is benched with Maitland dropping out after ironically his best game on Tuesday. Injuries see Ben Youngs replaces Mike Phillips at scrum-half, while lock Geoff Parling and prop Mako Vunipola step in for the injured Paul O'Connell and Alex Corbisiero.

Nothing unexpected but Gatland has laid his cards on the table, he is shoring up the defence with Bowe and Lydiate, whilst possibly the shock coming in with Mako Vunipola starting at Loose Head instead of Ryan Grant. The bench however is a different story with no specialist cover at Lock, Centre, or Full Back, and no enterprise, versatility, or speed on the bench with Evans, Gray, Tuilagi, Hogg, Maitland all not considered.

Come on the Lions ROOOAR

by Taylorman Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:06 pm

Uggghh...just don't like the 10, 12 13 of JOC, Lilo and AAC. As yet completely untried, Lilo coming off after a stretcher off and will have the goal kicking pressures after JOC and Beales disasters, JOC off a bad game first up after a long layoff and doesnt have the thinking for a 10 at this level yet. AAC's the rock but if all 3 clam up they just wont get flowing.

The selection of Youngs suggests Gatlands going for the jugular and theyre going to run at the inside channel big time- good on him.

JOC's going to have to step up big time as are all the backs. Forwards will hold parity as they always do and perhaps extract a few Joubert freebies...

Deans must realise its his neck this time and I think Coopers quietly wishing a similar outcome to have the last laugh.

Dunno...Dunno...expect the Lions to come out with a roar thats for sure...

by **George Carlin** Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:19 pm

Good things:
- Bowe in - nice to have an actual footballer on the wing;
- SOB on the bench - gives us another impact option;
- Croft still involved - again, let's us take back the lineout if we're losing it;
- I must be a bit p!ssed still because I thought for a moment there I saw Youngs at 9.

Bad things:
- Having no utility back is one thing - having no lock cover could well come back to bite us. I would never do this - just smacks of massive indecisiveness from Gats as to whether Croft or SOB should be the loose forward replacement;
- I would have sacrificed Cuthbert's try scoring potential for a 36 or Hogg who could slot into a number of positions. Despite people's protests to the contrary, Tommy can't have played centre or full back for a year;

For the Wallabies, I am very happy with Tomani on the wing instead of Cummins, Mafi or Morahan, all of whom are better players I think. Also, any replacement 10 for them is going to have to come from the existing 15. Not having Toomua at least in the 23 I still think is a mistake.

Gatland has gone back to his comfort zone. I hope it works.

by jimmyinthewell68 Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:26 pm

that's a load better bench then first test . i take Philips must be injured . feel sorry for cuthbert but hope bowe has a good game . i can see warburton being move effective this game with the ref allowing us to compete more at the breakdown . i can see lydiate being all over genia . should be a lot quick ball hopefully no box kicking .

by Goosestepper Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:39 pm

Everyone seems to think it would be SoB coming on from Lydiate...........but...........

How could would it be to see SOB come on for Heaslip around 55 minutes -

Lydiate/Warbs/SoB - now that floats my bloat

Lydiate chops Genia of at the knees, Warbs gets the turn over, pops to SoB who's hitting the line hard............

by **LondonTiger** Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:45 pm

Gatland said Phillips was "fit and available", although the Welshman - who started all three Tests in South Africa - has not been able to take a full part in training with a knee injury that also hindered him in the first Test.
"The decision was to rest him this week," Gatland explained. "He is potentially an important component for next week. Given the quality of the nines we have got, all of them have done a great job for us. We felt it was prudent to make sure he was 100% fit for next week."

So, I stated on another thread that I would eat my boxers if Phillips was dropped. Do I have an injured get-out clause?

Losing a fringe defender like Phillips, meant someone like Lydiate was a necessity. Cannot agree with Croft and SOB on bench. Should have been either/or. Cuthbert's relegation to the bench has a Stuart Lancaster feel to it - not wanting to leave someone out who has the shirt and did nothing to deserve being dropped. He should either have started or been left out completely, as he covers too few positions to be on the bench.

Finally Adam Jones will really need to be at his best with such inexperience alongside him. this time last year neither English front-rower had started an AP or HEC fixture for their clubs in these positions.

by sensisball Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:49 pm

Front five wont stand up to srutiny in the scrums. having no lock cover is a massive risk. Cuthbert only covers wing.
Can see this going badly wrong and the question is will gatland have the ba**s to sub of Vinupola early if the scrum struggles?
Its ironic that the only Scot likely to play in this test series, Ryan Grant, could be the one player the swings it in our favour!

by Hound of Harrow Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:52 pm

According to comments from the Lions, Phillips has been 'rested'.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:01 pm

Better hope neither lock goes down early Headscratch

by offload Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:01 pm

I like the tem but not the bench. I'd like to see Gray and Tuilagi or Hogg for Croft and Cuthbert.

by maestegmafia Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:12 pm

Lions team: Leigh Halfpenny, Tommy Bowe, Brian O'Driscoll, Jonathan Davies, George North, Jonathan Sexton, Ben Youngs; Mako Vunipola, Tom Youngs, Adam Jones, Alun Wyn Jones, Geoff Parling, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (c), Jamie Heaslip.
Replacements: Richard Hibbard, Ryan Grant, Dan Cole, Tom Croft, Sean O'Brien, Conor Murray, Owen Farrell, Alex Cuthbert.

by **RDW** Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:17 pm

Sure croft or lydiate CAN cover 2nd row, but whether they SHOULD is a completely different matter!

As has been said this strikes of indecisiveness - it also means if croft and SoB are gonna both come on either the captain will have to come off or one of them will be playing out of position.

by doctor_grey Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:23 pm

Interesting:
No Phillips - no problem there.
Vunipola makes me nervous, unless he gains redemption in the same manner as Vickery did on the last tour.
Otherwise, I suppose a pretty good team.
Time hit the ground running? Well, maybe not running, but go get the win!

by Scarpia Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:29 pm

I think Phillips should be on the bench. One poor game doesn't make him a worse prospect than Murray. Glad to see Bowe is back. He's such a complete footballer. Wonderful vision and skills. I would have picked Gray rather than Parling. I think SOB is a good bench call.

by maestegmafia Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:35 pm

It's interesting that we have seen Mike Phillips put in below par performances one week and given the grace to find form the next. This decision is more to do with his knee injury than poor game last week.

Time for Ben Youngs and Connor Murray to have a crack at it.

by BamBam Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:40 pm

I really hope we don't get an injury at lock. And Tuilagi/Hogg should be on the bench over Cuthbert, both cover more positions!

by doctor_grey Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:48 pm

Croft is clearly the cover for second row

by Submachine Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:50 pm

So all out attack to try an win the series. Whatever you might say about Gatland, this is a brave selection and dropping Philips from the 23 is huge. Poor Richie Gray.

by Portnoy's Complaint Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:53 pm

I see that Fatman is persisting with the BOD experiment.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:04 pm

I've merged the two teams up threads so everyone can comment in one place.

by captain carrantuohil Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:12 pm

I am reminded of "Yes Prime Minister", and the many occasions that Sir Humphrey would murmur: "That's a most courageous decision, Minister" whenever Jim Hacker had a particularly off the wall idea.

I really don't like no proper lock cover on the bench (Croft scarcely counts in this regard). Why an out and out wing on the bench, rather than Hogg, who can cover across the backline, or Tuilagi, who would at least provide real midfield impetus? Still think Mako to be better employed as an impact player, rather than a starter.

On the positive side - the back row is better balanced, the form 9 is starting, and we have the return of Bowe to look forward to. Gatland has opted for a side to give the backs quick ball. Let's hope that's what they get on Saturday.

by fa0019 Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:22 pm

I understand why Lydiate was on paper chosen... the lions are expecting a backlash and in these circumstances you need to get into the trenches with your tin hats on. The set piece looks very vunerable though.
Parling is not in the same calibre as either Croft or O'Connell. Croft rules the roost when both play at Leicester. Parling struggles without him.
Tom Youngs may come under a bit of flak post game as I see AUS doing well in the lineout but it may be unfair given both O'Connell and Croft are out.

You have to wonder how Lydiate is in though, his form has been at best average. He was top tackler on Tuesday sure... but thats all he does and given he's positioned in the middle of the park all the time you'd expect him to make a large number of them.

With O'Brien you get the front foot ball, Croft you get the pace and lineout. Its a very defensive choice with a match strategy of going out not to lose... rather than to win which is highly dangerous.

Phillips... its a slippery slope down from here. Gatland has finally realised that his game of bulk and try scoring prowess together with his lack of game management ability and poor servicing of a backline just isn't the right fit to compete with the very best.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:24 pm

fa0019 wrote:I understand why Lydiate was on paper chosen... the lions are expecting a backlash and in these circumstances you need to get into the trenches with your tin hats on. The set piece looks very vunerable though.
Parling is not in the same calibre as either Croft or O'Connell. Croft rules the roost when both play at Leicester. Parling struggles without him.Tom Youngs may come under a bit of flak post game as I see AUS doing well in the lineout but it may be unfair given both O'Connell and Croft are out.

You have to wonder how Lydiate is in though, his form has been at best average. He was top tackler on Tuesday sure... but thats all he does and given he's positioned in the middle of the park all the time you'd expect him to make a large number of them.

With O'Brien you get the front foot ball, Croft you get the pace and lineout. Its a very defensive choice with a match strategy of going out not to lose... rather than to win which is highly dangerous.

Phillips... its a slippery slope down from here. Gatland has finally realised that his game of bulk and try scoring prowess together with his lack of game management ability and poor servicing of a backline just isn't the right fit to compete with the very best.

I really can't agree with the Parling/Croft comment. Croft is a world class lineout jumper, but he does not lead the lineout for Leicester or England as far as I am aware. Louis Deacon or Parling call the lineout for Tigers, and as I said pre tour on the v2 podcast, I suspected that Parling's inclusion was based primarily on his lineout ability and he would be the direct replacement in the test side should anything happen to POC.

by fa0019 Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:41 pm

Remember the HC QF Leicester vs. Toulon earlier in the season.

Leicester were right in the match until Croft went out about 55-60 mins in. He was dominating the lineout, Parling didn't get a sniff. When he went off injured Parling couldn't keep hold of the lineout and lost a few if I recall.... and the balance of the match tipped towards Toulon.

England had the worst lineout retention stats in the 6N. Just never been convinced.

by Higher_Ground Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:56 pm

Fa0019. Phillips has competed with the best for a long time. He competed superbly in 2009, and will continue to swat away his opposite numbers for a few years to come yet. I think it's abundantly clear that he was carrying an injury last week. Always makes me laugh about the stick he gets, as Wales rack up championship after championship.
Good on Youngs though, i am a big fan, although hope the ridiculous pressure of delivering this holy grail of 'quick ball' doesn't see him spraying wild passes out wide with no purpose, because that's as bad as slow ball.
This is a good team, I have no fear whatsoever.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:56 pm

Is it just me or is this a really weird selection.

No lock cover on the bench, so if the Scrum starts going backwards with AWJ and Parling on we better all pray to god, allah and budah that neither of them get injured.

Also Hogg is taken as a utility back but Gatland brings a guy who can cover winger and not much else as back up, Tuilagi would also be a better call.

I can see us losing this one. We were lucky in the 1st test, and IMO that team was better, certainly in the tight spaces.

by Taffineastbourne Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:57 pm

Looks pretty good to me.I would have swapped the loose heads and would have been tempted to go with Toby.
We really need to on prove on last week and I think this side will give us every chance.

by nathan Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:04 pm

fa0019 wrote:Remember the HC QF Leicester vs. Toulon earlier in the season.

Leicester were right in the match until Croft went out about 55-60 mins in. He was dominating the lineout, Parling didn't get a sniff. When he went off injured Parling couldn't keep hold of the lineout and lost a few if I recall.... and the balance of the match tipped towards Toulon.

England had the worst lineout retention stats in the 6N. Just never been convinced.

Wasn't that last bit to do with Tom youngs throwing though?

by tigertattie Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:09 pm

Ritchie Gray must be fuming!

I'd be asking for my plane ticket home now if I were him!

Hogg continues to be cursed with mid week cover syndrome!

by bsando Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:11 pm

What the hell are the lions going to do if they lose halfpenny? Can either bowe or cuthbert play fullback? Why would you put cuthbert on bench when you have two very good players in Hogg and Maitland? I thought bowe might come in, but I did not expect cuthbert to make bench if he did.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:11 pm

Gray can count himself very unlucky. I thought he did enough vs. Melbourne Rebels to earn the bench spot. Croft and SOB on the bench smacks to me of Gatland being unsure of who to pick.

by BigTrevsbigmac Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:15 pm

Pretty happy with that starting side though I would have preferred Croft to start.
Also I would have had Hogg in for Cuthbert as a more utility player.

by Taffineastbourne Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:17 pm

Anybody not selected can consider themselves unlucky,surely?
I would hope that Gray like Evans would want to stay and support the Lions through to the end.He does not appear to be a petulant child to me.

by wales606 Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:19 pm

Lots of pressure on Adam Jones with a weaker loosehead and second row this weak - with little to improve with the replacements

First scrum will be key, if Adam can demolish the Aus front row then the Lions won't have lost much with their increased loose play in the pack.

by offload Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:20 pm

Although I like the look of the team - I always worry when a coach starts messing with players out of position. Either Coft is the starting 6 or he isnt. SOB can cover the back row. Either Gray or Evans are far better locks than Croft. Imagine getting selected for the squad as one of the best Locks in B&I and then lossing out to someone who doesn't play your position. Bowe is a better wing than Cuthbert, but why then not pick a back that can cover more than one position.

I hope this works for us. Gatland has gambled and it could unravel in the last 20 if he's got this wrong.

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:22 pm

Before this morning I was thinking Australia by 5-7 but it could pretty much be ten points plus now.

What a farce.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:23 pm

offload wrote:Although I like the look of the team - I always worry when a coach starts messing with players out of position. Either Coft is the starting 6 or he isnt. SOB can cover the back row. Either Gray or Evans are far better locks than Croft. Imagine getting selected for the squad as one of the best Locks in B&I and then lossing out to someone who doesn't play your position. Bowe is a better wing than Cuthbert, but why then not pick a back that can cover more than one position.

I hope this works for us. Gatland has gambled and it could unravel in the last 20 if he's got this wrong.

^ what he said.

by fa0019 Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:25 pm

Higher_Ground wrote:Fa0019. Phillips has competed with the best for a long time. He competed superbly in 2009, and will continue to swat away his opposite numbers for a few years to come yet. I think it's abundantly clear that he was carrying an injury last week. Always makes me laugh about the stick he gets, as Wales rack up championship after championship.
Good on Youngs though, i am a big fan, although hope the ridiculous pressure of delivering this holy grail of 'quick ball' doesn't see him spraying wild passes out wide with no purpose, because that's as bad as slow ball.
This is a good team, I have no fear whatsoever.

SA is quite a unique side. That side had massive ball carriers all over the park... Smit, Bismarck, Bakkies, Burger Spies, Smith, De Villiers, Frans Steyn... no other side at the time or since had such a massive threat.. because of that we needed to front up and chaps like Roberts, Phillips were necessary to combat that threat. AUS are a different side and require a different strategy.

by **George Carlin** Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:26 pm

From a Wallaby perspective, why the smeg is Horne there instead of Tapuai or Faing'a? As a Lions fan, I'll definitely take that.

And after all of the incessant hype, isn't there a hole on the Wallaby bench shaped like George Smith?

by RubyGuby Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:27 pm

:thumbsup:Usual hysteria on here - Bowe and Farrell can cover FB - Gats wants more from his 2nd rows and hence has gone for Croft. This certainly isn't an all out attack from Gats - It's a conservative team again to some extent with a bit of enforced dynamism as a consequence of injuries. We need at least parity in the scrums and it seems we might have compromised a little here. As long as we win our own set piece I think we'll be fine. A fit Tuilagi on the bench would have been my preferred option to Cuthbert

by **LondonTiger** Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:27 pm

fa0019 wrote:Remember the HC QF Leicester vs. Toulon earlier in the season.

Leicester were right in the match until Croft went out about 55-60 mins in. He was dominating the lineout, Parling didn't get a sniff. When he went off injured Parling couldn't keep hold of the lineout and lost a few if I recall.... and the balance of the match tipped towards Toulon.

Croft went off in the first half. Tigers lineout stood up pretty well after that, but the real killer to our momentum was the two YCs for deliberate knock ons

England had the worst lineout retention stats in the 6N. Just never been convinced.

that was largely due to Youngs and Hartley having some seriously wobbly moments in what were at times shocking conditions. England also stole more opposition lineouts than any other team.

It will all come out in the wash on Saturday.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:29 pm

Gatland's selections are going from bad to worse. The selection of the bench with no lock cover is a massive risk. If either AWJ or Parling get injured one of our areas of strength is weakened.

This is another one to add to the list of Gatland clangers.

by Mad for Chelsea Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:30 pm

interesting changes. IMO some good, some meh, some downright bizarre.

Vunipola: not convinced by his scrummaging at the highest level, though I'm sure Rowntree will have been working on it. Thing is, Grant hasn't always been that great in the scrum either, and with Corbs out I think Vunipola has done more than enough on tour to earn his chance.

Rest of the front row a no-brainer.

Parling: possibly brought in to run the line-out. Adds a bit of grunt in the loose too, but again this week I'm worried about the lack of go-forward ball we're going to generate (no SOB, no Gray, no Tuilagi, etc.). Would probably have prefered Gray on balance.

AWJ deserves his spot.

Lydiate in for Croft: a bit odd considering we've already lost one main line-out operator, I'm in the "Croft gets too much criticism" camp, but what Lydiate does he does tremendously well. Also Gats was clearly worried that had he kept Croft in there would be way too many Englishmen Wink

No qualms with the rest of the backrow, hope Warbs is allowed to play his game this week.

Youngs in for Philips, injury or no, is a good thing for me as it will allow quicker ball to the backs and give Sexton more to work with.

Bowe back in is a no-brainer, does everything Cuthbert does and more. Rest of the backline is OK, though I'm not yet convinced about the Davies-BOD combination, I think we could do with a bigger ball-carrier there (or get North into the middle more maybe). Both had solid games last week though and don't deserve the chop.

Bench: mostly picks itself, but two real concerns here.

Croft and SOB? I mean, what? Croft has on occasion covered (and played a bit) second row for England, but isn't a second row, so not sure how that works. Was Gatland unsure which to pick? Worried about the line-out so wants Croft there in case? Strikes me as a decision based on indecision more than anything else, Gray (and Evans) must be fuming.

Cuthbert? Did a decent enough job in the first Test with a well finished try. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but he only covers wing does he not? So what happens if one of the centres gets injured? We either put Bowe or North there, or Farrell plays centre? Neither ideal. Even more worryingly, what if Halfpenny gets injured? There's no one in the squad I don't think who can cover there. I can genuinely see Aus targeting Halfpenny with some early up-and-unders and looking to cause some damage, and why not? The biggest concern for me. Hogg or Maitland infinitely better choices...

by wales606 Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:31 pm

If the Lions lose, I can see a swing the other way next wee

Corbs, Roberts, Faletau and Phillips all to come back in, with perhaps Tipuric and Gray/Evans to make an appearance.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:32 pm

1. Bowe can cover fullback and 13. He doesn't have much experience here.
2. Vunipola is a poor call IMO, it could lose us this game due to our lack of lock cover.
3. Lack of lock cover is odd, if we are chasing the game it could be great, if we need to see if out and the game is getting tight (think of last week) then we are in trouble if Croft goes in at lock.
4. Youngs! Yahoo

5. Lydiate will need to prove he is useful when we have the ball which I am hoping is more than 50% of the time. If he can't do that then I'm not sure why he plays international rugby.

by Mad for Chelsea Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:33 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:1. Bowe can cover fullback and 13. He doesn't have much experience here.

I remember Bowe playing 13 a few times a couple of years back, but never seen him at FB? How is he there? Doesn't really have a kicking game...

by **George Carlin** Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:35 pm

Selecting players out of position. The killer of coaches everywhere. Like those heady Andy Robinson days we used to know.

by Portnoy's Complaint Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:38 pm

Ruby wrote:A fit Tuilagi on the bench would have been my preferred option to Cuthbert

On the bench?

Seriously, what has BOD really done on this tour?
He's been competent but has not been spectacular (largely because he's signed up to the Self-Preservation Society).

Seemingly he's preserved in aspic and being played on reputation alone.

Note: aspic is derived from broken bones which may come at any time soon.

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