AUSTRALIA v B&I LIONS - TEAMS FOR 2ND TEST

by alive555 Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:24 am

First topic message reminder :

flyhalffactory wrote:British & Irish Lions
15 Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues, Wales)
14 George North (Scarlets, Wales)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster, Ireland)
12 Jonathan Davies Scarlets, Wales)
11 Tommy Bowe (Ulster, Ireland)
10 Jonathan Sexton (Leinster, Ireland)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, England)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster, Ireland)
7 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, Wales, Cap)
6 Dan Lydiate (Newport G Dragons, Wales)
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, England)
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, Wales)
3 Adam Jones (Ospreys, Wales)
2 Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, England)
1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England)

16 Richard Hibbard (Ospreys, Wales)
17 Ryan Grant (Glasgow, Scotland)
18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, England)
19 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers, England)
20 Sean O'Brien (Leinster, Ireland)
21 Conor Murray (Munster, Ireland)
22 Owen Farrell (Saracens, England)
23 Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues, Wales)

Australia
15 Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels)
14 Israel Folau (NSW)
13 Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW)
12 Christian Leali'ifano (ACT Brumbies)
11 Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
10 James O'Connor (Melbourne Rebels)
9 Will Genia (Reds)
8 Wycliff Palu (NSW)
7 Michael Hooper (NSW)
6 Ben Mowen (ACT)
5 Kane Douglas (NSW)
4 James Horwill (Reds - Cap)
3 Ben Alexander (ACT)
2 Stephen Moore (ACT)
1 Benn Robinson (NSW)

16 Saia Fainga'a (Reds)
17 James Slipper (Reds)
18 Sekope Kepu (NSW)
19 Rob Simmons (Reds)
20 Liam Gill (Reds)
21 Nick Phipps (Rebels)
22 Rob Horne (NSW)
23 Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

So that's it folks
Representation Split
9 Wales - 3 Cardiff Blues, 2 Ospreys, 2 Scarlets, 1 NG Dragons
7 England - 5 Leicester, 2 Saracens
6 Ireland - 4 Leinster, 1 Munster, 1 Ulster
1 Scotland - 1 Glasgow

That's FIVE CHANGES for Saturday's second Test in Melbourne. Two positional Lydiate in and Croft dropping to the bench, while Bowe replaces the unlucky Cuthbert who is benched with Maitland dropping out after ironically his best game on Tuesday. Injuries see Ben Youngs replaces Mike Phillips at scrum-half, while lock Geoff Parling and prop Mako Vunipola step in for the injured Paul O'Connell and Alex Corbisiero.

Nothing unexpected but Gatland has laid his cards on the table, he is shoring up the defence with Bowe and Lydiate, whilst possibly the shock coming in with Mako Vunipola starting at Loose Head instead of Ryan Grant. The bench however is a different story with no specialist cover at Lock, Centre, or Full Back, and no enterprise, versatility, or speed on the bench with Evans, Gray, Tuilagi, Hogg, Maitland all not considered.

Come on the Lions ROOOAR

by fa0019 Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:32 pm

When has he had chances at 15??? he was never given a real chance. When he did, he played well.

What was the point in bringing him??? Half way through they said.... 3rd flyhalf... yet I bet even now if Sexton or Farrell get injured it will be Twelvetrees who gets the bench spot, not Hogg.

He would have done better to have gone to SA and improved our chances there with 3 genuine tests... he had 2 matches at fullback.

How would halfpenny have done at 10? I'm sure you will get the pride of Wales dropping in saying... oh he would be a world class 10 etc... but lets get real, he would struggle just like nearly every other 15 in world rugby and Hogg has done well given the circumstances.

by R!skysports Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:37 pm

MarcusHalberstram wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
MarcusHalberstram wrote:Team seems a little odd, but always happens come the second test.

Not sure why people are still banging on about Hogg - he may have a future, but he's clearly not ready for this level yet, and has been more noted for his frailties than strengths on this tour (and I'm not talking about him playing at fly-half).

Do you care to expand for the whole forum of course, and not just us very very bitter one eyed Scottish posters.

I really would like you to expand on your statement if you please

I just don't think he's been very good! Neither does anyone else I've watched games with. I was looking forward to seeing him on tour, and a lot of people had him in their test team before the tour, but I just think he's looked out of his depth in attack and defence.

Well in fairness he has played most of the time in a position he has not played in since school in a team 5 mins off the plane

When he played full back he was very good (not as good a Halfpenny I admit)

And in fact his first attempt at 10, he was exceptional (weak opposition I know)

So in summary, I really do not understand what you are talking about

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:42 pm

I hope Stuart Hogg will take the positives out of this tour. He's done the best he can of the job he's been asked to do, and he's such a talent in his true position that I hope his confidence won't have been affected.

by RubyGuby Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:45 pm

It's Hogg's first season at this level and he was chosen ahead of the likes of Mike Brown, Foden and Lee Byrne among others - If he can't take the positives he needs his head examining. Unlike the fans I think he will feel privelaged to have been on this tour and he would have enjoyed every bit. I would have taken Ben Foden

by fa0019 Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:50 pm

Ruby

If Hibbard was taken on condition he played No8 do you think it would ahve been considered fair or good for his game?

Good to be selected... sure. Good to be messed around, not at all. Balshaw was ruined by his lions experience in 2001.

by Newsilure Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:54 pm

Just want to voice a bit of support for Cuthbert. He seems the most unloved of Lions players, maybe because being English and playing for Wales he doesn't have an automatic following which is then compounded by his playing for Wales' least popular team.

But you have to feel for him, what more could he have done, he is the Lions tour top try scorer, has made the second highest number of metres and the second highest number of clean breaks. But he is being dropped in favour of someone who hasn't played since he broke a bone....

I think even Gatland feels uneasy about it which is why he has left him on the bench instead of having a player with more utility value sitting there.

by R!skysports Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:57 pm

Newsilure wrote:Just want to voice a bit of support for Cuthbert. He seems the most unloved of Lions players, maybe because being English and playing for Wales he doesn't have an automatic following which is then compounded by his playing for Wales' least popular team.

But you have to feel for him, what more could he have done, he is the Lions tour top try scorer, has made the second highest number of metres and the second highest number of clean breaks. But he is being dropped in favour of someone who hasn't played since he broke a bone....

I think even Gatland feels uneasy about it which is why he has left him on the bench instead of having a player with more utility value sitting there.

If that is the case, then Gatland should not be in the job - he has to make the hard (and right decisions) and sentiment should not be part of it

I actaulyl agree, I think Cuthbert sometimes gets a bit of a raw deal, he can be a great finisher and a dangerous player

by lostinwales Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:01 pm

The problem with being on the wing is that you only have a very limited number of opportunities to impress or depress. Cuthbert has done both and very little in between

by fa0019 Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:06 pm

If North or Bowe goes off its a straight swap. If Halfpenny goes off Bowe goes to 15 and Cuthbert goes to 14. Tommy Bowe is the utility player enabling Gatland to choose an on form player. It was probably Cuthbert vs. Manu for the bench spot but Cuthberts fitness and current form weighed in his favour.

Tommy Bowe's injury was to his hand... he could still keep fit so its a lot easier to go straight into a match then had he a leg injury and couldn't train.

Cuthbert is like Ben Cohen circa 2002... great pace and impact but once first ligament injury comes.... his test career will be over. Cohen scored 29 tries in his first 40 matches but was gone by the age of 25 after injury took his toll and he lost a yard or two of pace... he only scored another 2 in his final 17 matches.

by Brendan Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:07 pm

They aren't going to drop north and bowe was better three weeks ago so hardly suprising. It wasn't like he has been sitting on his couch drink beer.

by Taffineastbourne Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:09 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:
tigertattie wrote:The Gatland bashing is down to his bare faced lies!

"I will pick on form"

Yeah. Ok Warren! Yer pal Lydiate has been on great form! Gatland is becoming the next Clive Woodward and making a mockery of the Lions!

Stat of the week: Gray made one less tackle than Lydiate in the game on tuesday!

We all know Maku cannot scrummage and with a lightweight 2nd row behind him, Ooooft. That scrum is gonna struggle! And there is 2nd row cover!!!!

Thats just silly!

If a 2nd row goes down, or a centre or a fullback then the Lions could be struggling big time!
Surely you must have twigged that Gats wasn't picking on form when Gray was selected to tour in the first place!
Yet another bitter Scots fan,don't you just love em:roll:

Gray had a good start to the 6N's and missed a game and half through injury! Lydiate missed a whole season!

I'd rather be a bitter Scots fan with reason than to be a one eyed welshman! (disclaimer, I know not all welsh fans are one eyed!)
We seem to be managing without too many Scots in the side and I do not think that Lydiate has let anyone down,do you?
Just watch him on Saturday.You may just see why Scotland haven't got the better of Wales for years and years.
We are 1-0 up at the moment;pretty fortunate to be honest but Wales have earned that bit of luck against Oz!About time that red jerseys nicked a close one.

Two questions.

1. How/why have Wales earned a bit of luck against Australia?
2. You do know that it's not Wales playing them it's the Lions right?

1) Wales have had victory snatched from them in the dying minutes of their last few games against Oz which was pretty unlucky.
2)Just to enlighten you,Wales and the Lions both wear red jerseys and both teams have a good number of Welsh players who score most of the points.

by fa0019 Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:13 pm

Well given you've lost 8 matches in a row to AUS and no doubt Wales will go back to a losing record vs. AUS I doubt you can claim the reasons for victory are all welsh.

In fact quite the opposite.. given Ireland, Scotland and England have very good recent records vs. AUS.

by The Saint Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:15 pm

fa0019 wrote:

In fact quite the opposite.. given Ireland, Scotland and England have very good recent records vs. AUS.

But they don't have very good recent records against WALES though... Nor Samoa! censored

by R!skysports Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:16 pm

Thought I would give a rating on player selection - 5 stars - Perferct decision - 1 Star - what is he thinking 'Worst decision evvver'

Anything under a 4 I will comment my reason

British & Irish Lions
15 Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues, Wales) - 5*
14 George North (Scarlets, Wales) - 5*
13 Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster, Ireland) - 4*
12 Jonathan Davies Scarlets, Wales) - 4*
11 Tommy Bowe (Ulster, Ireland) - 3* - While a great player, I really hope he is injury free. Straight back in is a risk
10 Jonathan Sexton (Leinster, Ireland) - 5*
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, England) - 5*
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster, Ireland) - 4*
7 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, Wales, Cap) - 3* Still not the best performing 7, but has to be picked - a good player still though
6 Dan Lydiate (Newport G Dragons, Wales) - 4*
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, England) - 3* - worried about the scrum, but a good lineout option
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, Wales) - 4*
3 Adam Jones (Ospreys, Wales) - 5*
2 Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, England) - 5*
1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) - 2* - really worried about the scrum. Provided little impact in the first test, in the loose or the scrum. Deserves a chance, but would probably be better on the bench for impact - really hope he proves me wrong
16 Richard Hibbard (Ospreys, Wales) - 5*
17 Ryan Grant (Glasgow, Scotland) - 3* Imo should start as the better scrummeger
18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, England) - 5*
19 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers, England) - 1* - huge gamble from Gatland as if we lose a 2nd row, we are in real trouble - Gray or Evans a huge mistake not on the bench
20 Sean O'Brien (Leinster, Ireland) - 4*
21 Conor Murray (Munster, Ireland) - 3* -While not a Phillips fan, not sure Murray offers anything better - but 50/50 for me
22 Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) - 5*
23 Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues, Wales) - 3* - Good player, but not the best player for a bench spot. Can not cover anything except wing

Starters
71 out of 75

Bench 29 out of 40

Total 100 out of 115

So from my point of view, think the starting line up is close to what I would like, but the bench is a real concern

by SecretFly Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:19 pm

The Lions!!!!

The Lions guys!!!!!!!!

Wink

Here's a Lions cynic having to keep Lions fans on message.....

Taff, go easy on the Welsh allusions as the scorers of most of the points (being wings and kickers you'd expect them to be doing that duty) need position and penalties to allow them their scores. There have been quite a number of English, Irish and Scots helping out in that department.

Rugby is a game where mostly all 15 players are required to achieve the scoring.

by fa0019 Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:20 pm

The Saint wrote:
fa0019 wrote:

In fact quite the opposite.. given Ireland, Scotland and England have very good recent records vs. AUS.

But they don't have very good recent records against WALES though... Nor Samoa!

and Wales does?

by SecretFly Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:20 pm

The Saint wrote:
fa0019 wrote:

In fact quite the opposite.. given Ireland, Scotland and England have very good recent records vs. AUS.

But they don't have very good recent records against WALES though... Nor Samoa!

Ireland does........... Whistle

by fa0019 Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:21 pm

Risky.... don't you think Lydiate will go into lock if either gets injured? He's quite a bulky lad.

by The Saint Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:22 pm

SecretFly wrote:
The Saint wrote:
fa0019 wrote:

In fact quite the opposite.. given Ireland, Scotland and England have very good recent records vs. AUS.

But they don't have very good recent records against WALES though... Nor Samoa!

Ireland does...........

1 in the last 4? Well I guess it depends on how recent FA was talking about, so I may have to get back to you once the goalposts are switched again Very Happy

.

by GunsGerms Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:24 pm

SecretFly wrote:
The Saint wrote:
fa0019 wrote:

In fact quite the opposite.. given Ireland, Scotland and England have very good recent records vs. AUS.

But they don't have very good recent records against WALES though... Nor Samoa!

Ireland does...........

Ireland has only lost to Samoa once over 20 years ago and obviously defeated Wales in Cardiff recently.

by Brendan Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:25 pm

I am guessing that with heslip and wars on the back row there will be three lineout choices. Seems like Gats beleives the hype that Oz have a rubbish scrum and you can stick anything out against it.

Surely Evans or Gray would be better and being a second row covering 6 then what he has. Both of the second rows are tackling machines and i though that was all Gats want from his six. censored

and they can carry too.

by The Saint Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:25 pm

fa0019 wrote:
The Saint wrote:
fa0019 wrote:

In fact quite the opposite.. given Ireland, Scotland and England have very good recent records vs. AUS.

But they don't have very good recent records against WALES though... Nor Samoa!

and Wales does?

It's 1 a piece in recent-ish times. But like I said, depends how recent you're talking about.

by R!skysports Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:26 pm

fa0019 wrote:Risky.... don't you think Lydiate will go into lock if either gets injured? He's quite a bulky lad.

has he ever played there before - I do not know

Is a very technical position, so could end up a complete mess

by Mad for Chelsea Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:28 pm

I must have missed the bit where the series was switched and we're now playing Samoa... though to be fair I think England's record against Samoa is pretty decent compared to Wales'? Wink

by Brendan Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:29 pm

The Saint wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
The Saint wrote:
fa0019 wrote:

In fact quite the opposite.. given Ireland, Scotland and England have very good recent records vs. AUS.

But they don't have very good recent records against WALES though... Nor Samoa!

and Wales does?

It's 1 a piece in recent-ish times. But like I said, depends how recent you're talking about.

If you say the last ten matches against every team ireland has a better record except maybe france. And italy might be a tie

by Taffineastbourne Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:32 pm

SecretFly wrote:The Lions!!!!

The Lions guys!!!!!!!!

Here's a Lions cynic having to keep Lions fans on message.....

Taff, go easy on the Welsh allusions as the scorers of most of the points (being wings and kickers you'd expect them to be doing that duty) need position and penalties to allow them their scores. There have been quite a number of English, Irish and Scots helping out in that department.

Rugby is a game where mostly all 15 players are required to achieve the scoring.

This was tongue in cheek pseudo patriotic chauvinism which seems almost de rigeur bfrom a large number of tub thumping posters.I fear for the Lions concept as the yoof simply do not get it. Crying or Very sad

by Brendan Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:33 pm

Of the top ten nations only wales and Argentina haven't beaten Oz in the last 5 games/four years.

SA and NZ are another story. Have 5 teams beaten NZ in the last 4 years, Oz, SA, Eng, Fra?

by R!skysports Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:43 pm

I am Spartacus

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:44 pm

I am Damo Suzuki.

by Brendan Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:44 pm

As far as the team goes i'm happy enough. I think youngs will work better wiyh sexton and the only reason i can see to have murray is he knows sexton better than phillips might.
Bench is all wrong but i think its a case of the team and bench were picked long ago and now with all the injuries they dont know what to do and have to do it off the cuff.
Parling might not be the biggest/strongest but if he plays start for a team like tigers that is built around the scrum/pack he will be fine. Evans and gray haven't always done it against bigger packs but its madness to have neither on the bench.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:50 pm

Yeah, I think Gary should have started. Wink

by R!skysports Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:51 pm

I am Gary.

by SecretFly Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:53 pm

Gary is another one of those Scottish guys that was all talk leading into the Lions but where has he been since? He's been so absent from showing any quaility that most of us didn't realise he was still on tour. Good spot Brendan Wink

by ChequeredJersey Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:54 pm

Where's our bench cover for lock? Croft can jump like a lock but no way can he scrummage like one!

by RubyGuby Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:55 pm

Cuthbert is the 2nd row cover

by fa0019 Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:01 pm

If Parling goes Croft can come in and its no worries, if AW Jones goes... we're toast.

by funnyExiledScot Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:01 pm

If Joubert is true to form he won't let either side scrummage properly, so you may as well stuff your second row with flankers and prepare for the free-kick festival that Joubert so likes to partake in.

by Taffineastbourne Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:05 pm

I reckon Gats is expecting plague will affect the Oz forwards this week and they will need to play their reserve scrummie in the second row.
A few ill fated injuries and our side could be a bit of a pantomime sharpish.
No need to panic just yet.

by Taffineastbourne Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:07 pm

I am Typo!

by ChequeredJersey Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:14 pm

At least Deans has managed to provide almost the worst possible set up of all the players starting in his backline. I'm willing to bet O'Connor has a stormer though, basically playing as a free-roaming winger of LLF (the actual fly-half) in attack

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:27 pm

Riskysports wrote:
Newsilure wrote:Just want to voice a bit of support for Cuthbert. He seems the most unloved of Lions players, maybe because being English and playing for Wales he doesn't have an automatic following which is then compounded by his playing for Wales' least popular team.

But you have to feel for him, what more could he have done, he is the Lions tour top try scorer, has made the second highest number of metres and the second highest number of clean breaks. But he is being dropped in favour of someone who hasn't played since he broke a bone....

I think even Gatland feels uneasy about it which is why he has left him on the bench instead of having a player with more utility value sitting there.

If that is the case, then Gatland should not be in the job - he has to make the hard (and right decisions) and sentiment should not be part of it

I actaulyl agree, I think Cuthbert sometimes gets a bit of a raw deal, he can be a great finisher and a dangerous player

Spot on comment!

The coach is not there to feel sorry for them and keep the peace.

by Sin é Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:30 pm

Why is Paul O'Connell doing weight training with a broken arm?

http://inpho.ie/assignment/British-amp-Irish-Lions-Weight-Training-Thursday/87ULnal8_WDmUfTp7mjZ2A..a?ts=VXpH43DoVboDCq79r-5_hA..a

by king_carlos Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:30 pm

The starting line-up I'm mostly ok with from the Lions perspective but Gray I really have to feel for. As a Tiger's and England fan I rate Croft very highly but an international second row he is not - Gray has put in big shifts all tour with one quieter game (in which the whole pack struggled) since which he seems to have been ignored. On Tuesday his tackle count was phenomenal plus he offers more going forwards than any other second row in the squad, really have to feel for the bloke.

Tipuric is the other guy I've got some sympathy for as I've got to think that if Warburton hadn't been captain Tipuric would've been starting 7 for the tests. Sam hasn't had a poor tour by any standards but at the same time hasn't really shone at any point and Tipuric would've complemented that pack better than Warbs IMO.

Add Gray and Tuilagi or Hogg to the bench in place of Croft and Cuthbert and the side looks balanced but I can't help thinking that one untimely injury to either second row or centre and we could be in big trouble.

by glamorganalun Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:38 pm

fa0019 wrote:If Parling goes Croft can come in and its no worries, if AW Jones goes... we're toast.

Totally agree, mad not having Evans/Gray at least on the bench. I have not been impressed with any of the 6's for the Lions to date, I prefer to put AWJ at 6 and Gray and Evans in the second row and blow the Aus pack off the park.

If the Lions win this game they need luck on their side with injuries. If the Aus target AWJ early on but do a better job than the first test they will win.

by king_carlos Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:40 pm

Sin é wrote:Why is Paul O'Connell doing weight training with a broken arm?

http://inpho.ie/assignment/British-amp-Irish-Lions-Weight-Training-Thursday/87ULnal8_WDmUfTp7mjZ2A..a?ts=VXpH43DoVboDCq79r-5_hA..a

Looks like he is doing core work (hip extensions and plank) which shouldn't put too much of a load on his wrist. Core strength links into the majority of what rugby players do and can disappear quite quickly if neglected so I'd guess he's just trying to retain what he can of his training until he's fit again.

Then again I've got no qualification to comment on that other than what my coach crow bars me into doing in training so could be completely wrong! Whistle

by RubyGuby Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:12 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
Riskysports wrote:
Newsilure wrote:Just want to voice a bit of support for Cuthbert. He seems the most unloved of Lions players, maybe because being English and playing for Wales he doesn't have an automatic following which is then compounded by his playing for Wales' least popular team.

But you have to feel for him, what more could he have done, he is the Lions tour top try scorer, has made the second highest number of metres and the second highest number of clean breaks. But he is being dropped in favour of someone who hasn't played since he broke a bone....

I think even Gatland feels uneasy about it which is why he has left him on the bench instead of having a player with more utility value sitting there.

If that is the case, then Gatland should not be in the job - he has to make the hard (and right decisions) and sentiment should not be part of it

I actaulyl agree, I think Cuthbert sometimes gets a bit of a raw deal, he can be a great finisher and a dangerous player

Spot on comment!

The coach is not there to feel sorry for them and keep the peace.

by RubyGuby Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:14 pm

Bowe has hardly been out that long and is a more experienced player and a better defender than Cuthbert - In essence he's a better player and would have been number one choice.

With Farrell and Bowe being able to cover 10-15 there is sense in having a strike runner on the bench like Cuthbert

This is easy really if you think about it and he is not there because Gats doesn't have the kahunas to drop him.

by R!skysports Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:51 pm

Sorry who covers 15 in that

I did not realise either of them did

by Mad for Chelsea Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:57 pm

Bowe apparently has played 15 on the odd occasion in the past. Whether that means he can do a good job if called upon at such a big occasion I don't know, obviously. The other problem with having a starter being used as "cover" is the whole reorganisation necessary if such cover is needed. Having said that, with only one outside back on the bench you're always going to be making sacrifices there. Would I have preferred a more versatile player than Cuthbert there? Yes. But it would have been extremely harsh had Cuthbert been left out of the squad entirely too...

by **George Carlin** Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:04 pm

All of this stuff that "Bowe can cover full back and centre" makes me positively moist with laughter. If you mean that Bowe can stand at the right place in line and occupy broadly the correct defensive channels, then 'yes', he can "cover" it.

However, if at full back (for example) you mean that Bowe can magically grow a territorial kicking game overnight that is fit to operate under test match pressure and can read the field well enough to always be correctly positioned defensively during loose play, then you must be having an enormous giraffe.

Let's not kid ourselves - having Cuthbert is a massive risk as he can only cover one position. Farrell has played at centre for club at least which gives him a case that holds water but if a player hasn't played in a particular position for at least a season, let's not pretend that they can 'cover' a position to test standard. Absolutely nobody in Scotland would have claimed that Stuart Hogg could cover 10 - least of all, Stuart Hogg. And so it proved. It's fine. He'll get back to 15 and move on.

It's a risky, risky selection by Gatland - the elephant in the room being the lack of lock cover. This will come down to the luck of the collisions as it always, always does. If two loose forwards happen to get injured, Gatland's bench will look like a masterstroke. If AWJ is carted off and Parling also picks up a knock, then we're going to be badly exposed. Why can't people just admit it?

Luck comes into it so much. When Scotland lost Horne and then Jackson in Scotland's recent international, it was only by dint of blind circumstance that we happen to have a 9 in Laidlaw who also plays 10. It's in the lap of Bill McLaren ( angel

) now.

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