AUSTRALIA v B&I LIONS - TEAMS FOR 2ND TEST

by alive555 Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:24 am

First topic message reminder :

flyhalffactory wrote:British & Irish Lions
15 Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues, Wales)
14 George North (Scarlets, Wales)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster, Ireland)
12 Jonathan Davies Scarlets, Wales)
11 Tommy Bowe (Ulster, Ireland)
10 Jonathan Sexton (Leinster, Ireland)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, England)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster, Ireland)
7 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, Wales, Cap)
6 Dan Lydiate (Newport G Dragons, Wales)
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, England)
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, Wales)
3 Adam Jones (Ospreys, Wales)
2 Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, England)
1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England)

16 Richard Hibbard (Ospreys, Wales)
17 Ryan Grant (Glasgow, Scotland)
18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, England)
19 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers, England)
20 Sean O'Brien (Leinster, Ireland)
21 Conor Murray (Munster, Ireland)
22 Owen Farrell (Saracens, England)
23 Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues, Wales)

Australia
15 Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels)
14 Israel Folau (NSW)
13 Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW)
12 Christian Leali'ifano (ACT Brumbies)
11 Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
10 James O'Connor (Melbourne Rebels)
9 Will Genia (Reds)
8 Wycliff Palu (NSW)
7 Michael Hooper (NSW)
6 Ben Mowen (ACT)
5 Kane Douglas (NSW)
4 James Horwill (Reds - Cap)
3 Ben Alexander (ACT)
2 Stephen Moore (ACT)
1 Benn Robinson (NSW)

16 Saia Fainga'a (Reds)
17 James Slipper (Reds)
18 Sekope Kepu (NSW)
19 Rob Simmons (Reds)
20 Liam Gill (Reds)
21 Nick Phipps (Rebels)
22 Rob Horne (NSW)
23 Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

So that's it folks
Representation Split
9 Wales - 3 Cardiff Blues, 2 Ospreys, 2 Scarlets, 1 NG Dragons
7 England - 5 Leicester, 2 Saracens
6 Ireland - 4 Leinster, 1 Munster, 1 Ulster
1 Scotland - 1 Glasgow

That's FIVE CHANGES for Saturday's second Test in Melbourne. Two positional Lydiate in and Croft dropping to the bench, while Bowe replaces the unlucky Cuthbert who is benched with Maitland dropping out after ironically his best game on Tuesday. Injuries see Ben Youngs replaces Mike Phillips at scrum-half, while lock Geoff Parling and prop Mako Vunipola step in for the injured Paul O'Connell and Alex Corbisiero.

Nothing unexpected but Gatland has laid his cards on the table, he is shoring up the defence with Bowe and Lydiate, whilst possibly the shock coming in with Mako Vunipola starting at Loose Head instead of Ryan Grant. The bench however is a different story with no specialist cover at Lock, Centre, or Full Back, and no enterprise, versatility, or speed on the bench with Evans, Gray, Tuilagi, Hogg, Maitland all not considered.

Come on the Lions ROOOAR

by Mad for Chelsea Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:41 am

George Carlin wrote:Selecting players out of position. The killer of coaches everywhere. Like those heady Andy Robinson days we used to know.

or Tom Wood at n°8 for 4 of the 5 matches this year? Wink

still amazed we managed to win three of them...

To be fair, the only truly "out of position" selection that Gats has made is Croft. With only one bench cover for 11-15 (and I think we all agree we need specialist SH and FH cover on the bench) you're always going to be a little short there. However, it is somewhat surprising that considering this Gats didn't go with a more versatile option (Maitland, Hogg, even Tuilagi)...

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:42 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:1. Bowe can cover fullback and 13. He doesn't have much experience here.

I remember Bowe playing 13 a few times a couple of years back, but never seen him at FB? How is he there? Doesn't really have a kicking game...

It's suspect I'd say. He is rock solid under the high ball tho prob better than 1/2p in that regard and he can counter well too.

by Heuer27 Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:43 am

Decent enough team. Looks like Gatland wants them to play at a higher tempo than last week.
The bench is a brain fart though. When the injuries come, the lions will struggle to maintain control of the game. There are too many holes in the cover on the bench as others have stated. I can see the Aussies taking control in the last 20 mins

by RubyGuby Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:45 am

Bowe and Farrell can cover 10-15 with ease so I'm not sure what the problem is here. Croft is the "gamble" but that's Gatlands decision and if we have parity in the scrums then it's not such a bad option. In Gats we trust - let's bring it on

by Guest Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:58 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:1. Bowe can cover fullback and 13. He doesn't have much experience here.

I remember Bowe playing 13 a few times a couple of years back, but never seen him at FB? How is he there? Doesn't really have a kicking game...

It's suspect I'd say. He is rock solid under the high ball tho prob better than 1/2p in that regard and he can counter well too.

Is this a typo Pete?! Bowe better than 1/2p under the high ball?

by GunsGerms Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:59 am

Happy with the team. Think it makes sense to bring in Lydiate and Bowe. Hopefully Lydiate has been brought in to put pressure on Genia and JOC. Bowe is a very classy player and is made for matches like this.

SOB deserves his spot on the bench but surprised Croft was included too. I guess cause he is a line out jumper. Surprised Philips was left out altogether even though he did have a bad game last week.

POC is a massive loss and swings the balance back to the Aussies even though in Melbourne it will probably be like a home game for the Lions.

Lions scrum will be targeted.

by GunsGerms Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:01 am

Griff wrote:
Is this a typo Pete?! Bowe better than 1/2p under the high ball?

Bowe is a GAA man. Made for catching high balls.

Anyone notice how Folau caught high balls in his hands ala Aussie rules rather than letting it drop into the bread basket?

by Higher_Ground Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:23 am

I hope Grant gets on and plays well, the Scottish deserve something to cheer about. I think I would be very put out if I was Scottish, given that there is only one player o the bench, but...........
If you are perfectly honest, although Grey has played exceptionally well this tour, he was perhaps one of the more lucky tourists this time around, given his form for club and country has been fairly poor for over a year.
I would have been happy to see him start the game, but in Gats I trust I suppose, and Grey will come home with his confidence renewed, and his reputation enhanced.

Hogg is the 3rd choice fullback, and was never a realistic contender for a test place, given that Gatland had his wingers (North and Bowe) in mind, and Halfpenny at
Fullback. He's like, 15 years old, so will have his chance.

As usual, lets try and keep the coach slating until after we've lost. Everyone makes valid points, but if you think that you're thinking of something that the 5 international rugby coaches picking the team haven't, you're wrong.

by tigertattie Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:38 am

The Gatland bashing is down to his bare faced lies!

"I will pick on form"

Yeah. Ok Warren! Yer pal Lydiate has been on great form! Gatland is becoming the next Clive Woodward and making a mockery of the Lions!

Stat of the week: Gray made one less tackle than Lydiate in the game on tuesday!

We all know Maku cannot scrummage and with a lightweight 2nd row behind him, Ooooft. That scrum is gonna struggle! And there is 2nd row cover!!!!

Thats just silly!

If a 2nd row goes down, or a centre or a fullback then the Lions could be struggling big time!

by Thomond Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:46 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Griff wrote:
Is this a typo Pete?! Bowe better than 1/2p under the high ball?

Bowe is a GAA man. Made for catching high balls.

Anyone notice how Folau caught high balls in his hands ala Aussie rules rather than letting it drop into the bread basket?

He has played Aussie rules so that explains it. Leamy was the same, you get a lot more kids playing btoh and getting a great all round skillbase. It's good to see.

by GunsGerms Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:49 am

Thomond wrote:
He has played Aussie rules so that explains it.

Yah was aware of that alright. Though aparently he wasnt outstanding.

by GunsGerms Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:53 am

tigertattie wrote:The Gatland bashing is down to his bare faced lies!

"I will pick on form"

Yeah. Ok Warren! Yer pal Lydiate has been on great form! Gatland is becoming the next Clive Woodward and making a mockery of the Lions!

Stat of the week: Gray made one less tackle than Lydiate in the game on tuesday!

We all know Maku cannot scrummage and with a lightweight 2nd row behind him, Ooooft. That scrum is gonna struggle! And there is 2nd row cover!!!!

Thats just silly!

If a 2nd row goes down, or a centre or a fullback then the Lions could be struggling big time!

Lydiate is a tactical selection. He has been off form but it makes sense. Genia caused the Lions the most problems last week. Lydiate's strength is his tackling and defensive work around the fringes. There is talk that Sexton is injured and not defensively as useful as he normally is or perhaps they just want to protect him as Gatland sees him as a key man for a series win. Either way Lydiate has been brought in to do a specific tactical job it seems.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:53 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Thomond wrote:
He has played Aussie rules so that explains it.

Yah was aware of that alright. Though aparently he wasnt outstanding.

True. He had a pretty good high-ball reputation in RL too though - hence why he got recruited by AFL. Granted they had one eye on marketing potential in Sydney (they grabbed Karmichael Hunt for the Brisbane market) but they made sure to look at skillsets while recruiting.

by Comfort Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:53 am

Hmmm, my thoughts:

No Phillips - injured or not, the right call, but what you lose with no Phillips is an extra fringe defender, meaning Croft had to go for someone like Lydiate (Croft doesnt act like a winger like some make out, but he does like defending in the wider channels and using his pace). Lydiate loves defending the close channels from the breakdown to the midfield. If you're taking that covering defence from Croft out of the equation the defence out wide simply has to be more secure, see Tommy Bowe.

No second row replacement is odd, I guess Gatlands hoping Croft can be the lineout cover and we'll be looking to open it up rather than tighten. SOB will come on to punch holes and carry ball at tired legs and Cuthberts there because he is an excellant finisher on turnover ball, he's scored a number of important tries for Wales and his try in the last test would undoubtedly be why hes made this team over someone like Hogg/Maitland who can cover a number of positions. North and Bowe can both to an extent cover the centres. There's enough kickers and wingers to defend the back field later in the game.

Im optimistic. Gatlands put his cards out to go and win this game rather than not to lose it. Mako coming in is an attacking option, Parling is a straight replacement for POC who will be missed (and is why I incidentally think Heaslip is there, leadership - he has the experience Faletau doesnt).

Looking forward to a good game, fingers crossed Gatlands plans come to fruition and we're not left shorthanded in certain areas

by GunsGerms Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:01 am

I agree re Heaslip. Once POC got injured it was unlikely Heaslip would be dropped otherwise it would be quite an inexperienced pack devoid of ample leadership, with respect to Warb who is a good leader.

by Taffineastbourne Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:02 am

tigertattie wrote:The Gatland bashing is down to his bare faced lies!

"I will pick on form"

Yeah. Ok Warren! Yer pal Lydiate has been on great form! Gatland is becoming the next Clive Woodward and making a mockery of the Lions!

Stat of the week: Gray made one less tackle than Lydiate in the game on tuesday!

We all know Maku cannot scrummage and with a lightweight 2nd row behind him, Ooooft. That scrum is gonna struggle! And there is 2nd row cover!!!!

Thats just silly!

If a 2nd row goes down, or a centre or a fullback then the Lions could be struggling big time!

Surely you must have twigged that Gats wasn't picking on form when Gray was selected to tour in the first place!
Yet another bitter Scots fan,don't you just love em:roll:

by Comfort Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:04 am

GunsGerms wrote:I agree re Heaslip. Once POC got injured it was unlikely Heaslip would be dropped otherwise it would be quite an inexperienced pack devoid of ample leadership, with respect to Warb who is a good leader.

Absolutely and be fair he's played well and there's nothing to choose between him and Faletau imo, both playing well, perhaps not in their top form though.

I'd be happy with either if POC was fit, I'd take Heaslip in this situation all day.

by GunsGerms Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:07 am

Gray has been unlucky. I dont understand the subtleties re second row and their contrabution to scrummaging but this seems to be why he is missing out. Pity because he is an awesome player to watch for his mobility and enterprise around the park.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:15 am

I hope Gatland's right with his choices. With that bench, though, we do look an unfortunate injury away from having people playing out of position.

I'm a bit worried that we'll be short of old heads on the pitch. BOD is a leader, but, when he's not captain, he tends to play like a madman rather than acting as a calming influence. You hope AWJ, Heaslip and Bowe can give Warburton some additional support.

Our decision making in the first Test wasn't great. I listened again to the Talksport commentary. David Campese and Brian Moore warned the Lions would need to clear that last scrum quickly, pointing out it was just in kicking range, so it wouldn't be wise to keep it in and risk giving away a penalty.

I don't know who called that move but it could have lost us the game. We will need to be smarter if we find ourselves either chasing the game or trying to close it out.

by flyhalffactory Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:16 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:I've merged the two teams up threads so everyone can comment in one place.

Ozzy mate understand what you have one, but if you are going to merge threads at least put the content of the thread in at the start.

The title which is Australia v B&I Lions Teams - 2nd Test has now being morphed into the Lions team only (I put the both teams up for debate and discussion) what a waste of time and effort

by tigertattie Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:19 am

Taffineastbourne wrote:
tigertattie wrote:The Gatland bashing is down to his bare faced lies!

"I will pick on form"

Yeah. Ok Warren! Yer pal Lydiate has been on great form! Gatland is becoming the next Clive Woodward and making a mockery of the Lions!

Stat of the week: Gray made one less tackle than Lydiate in the game on tuesday!

We all know Maku cannot scrummage and with a lightweight 2nd row behind him, Ooooft. That scrum is gonna struggle! And there is 2nd row cover!!!!

Thats just silly!

If a 2nd row goes down, or a centre or a fullback then the Lions could be struggling big time!
Surely you must have twigged that Gats wasn't picking on form when Gray was selected to tour in the first place!
Yet another bitter Scots fan,don't you just love em:roll:

Gray had a good start to the 6N's and missed a game and half through injury! Lydiate missed a whole season!

I'd rather be a bitter Scots fan with reason than to be a one eyed welshman! (disclaimer, I know not all welsh fans are one eyed!)

by MarcusHalberstram Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:27 am

Team seems a little odd, but always happens come the second test.

I hope Youngs has a good game - I think Phillips must be injured, or there's no way he'd drop out of the 23 - despite not having a great game last week.

I think we missed a big ball carrier in the centre last week - was hoping Roberts or Tuilagi would maybe slot in, but drop Davies or BOD - Davies is in better form but BOD is a leader and a must really - especially now they've lost POC (and Phillips, who is another warrior).

Bowe has to come in if he's fit - he's world class - though Cuthbert is slightly unlucky (I can't help getting the feeling people notice his mistakes more than others simply because of his lumbering caveman physique) - his try last week was very underrated. Bench spot is fine. Not sure why people are still banging on about Hogg - he may have a future, but he's clearly not ready for this level yet, and has been more noted for his frailties than strengths on this tour (and I'm not talking about him playing at fly-half). The Scots fans need to stop whining about him "being messed around by Gatland" - he's been done a massive favour by being exposed to so much rugby at this level, but he's not ready for a Lions test yet, I feel.

Croft on the bench - not really sure of the point in that.

Hope Mako has a stormer!

Come on Lions.

by Mad for Chelsea Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:27 am

someone made the comment that with Phillips out we needed a bit more defence around the fringes, and that was why Lydiate was brought in. I understand that reasoning. The problem you get with Lydiate is that aside from his tackling - which is fantastic, not merely the number of tackles he makes but how effective they are - you don't really get much else. Having said that, I'm not fussed about him being picked here. What I am concerned about is Gats seemingly feeling both Croft and SOB deserve a spot in the matchday squad and thus putting both on the bench. Gray can certainly feel very unlucky not to make the bench IMO, he's had a perfectly good Tour so far.

by Higher_Ground Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:35 am

Not sure Gatland is making a mockery of the Lions. Losing every series is what does that.

by Comfort Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:38 am

Mad for, that was me. I was more tryping aloud to get to grips with the reasoning as I saw it. Not saying I necessarily agree with it, but with POC and Phillips bot hout (huge fringe defenders in their own rights) I think Croft is a luxury the Lions could not afford. Genia was a constant threat anywhere up to 10m/15m out from the breakdown, thats where Lydiate likes to prowl. I'm assuming thats why he got the nod over SOB.

Also think Croft should be replaced by Grey on the bench. Nothing against Croft, but I'd just prefer SOB to cover across all the backrow and a genuine second row to come in for a bit more grunt than the mobility that croft brings. Ale

by GunsGerms Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:40 am

Surely Tipuric is the forgotten man. The one guy who really deserves to be in the team but hasnt even made the bench yet. He must be quite frustrated.

by flyhalffactory Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:43 am

MarcusHalberstram wrote:Team seems a little odd, but always happens come the second test.

Not sure why people are still banging on about Hogg - he may have a future, but he's clearly not ready for this level yet, and has been more noted for his frailties than strengths on this tour (and I'm not talking about him playing at fly-half).

Do you care to expand for the whole forum of course, and not just us very very bitter one eyed Scottish posters.

I really would like you to expand on your statement if you please

by Comfort Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:43 am

He's probably getting used to it to be fair with Wales at first and now the Lions......

he must have a dartboard with warb's face on somewhere.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:46 am

flyhalffactory wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:I've merged the two teams up threads so everyone can comment in one place.

Ozzy mate understand what you have one, but if you are going to merge threads at least put the content of the thread in at the start.

The title which is Australia v B&I Lions Teams - 2nd Test has now being morphed into the Lions team only (I put the both teams up for debate and discussion) what a waste of time and effort

I thought I had mate, but must have got the threads the wrong way round. Apologies, will see if I can alter it.

by Newsilure Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:50 am

Looks to me like Gatland is taking a speculative punt at this one, hoping this team can pull off a win but with half his mind on being in the best postion to win the third test if they don't. As far as I can tell Gatland only had one game plan when he came on this tour and that was to split the Australian back row cover between Phillips carrying the ball around the tight and Jamie Roberts smashing into the 12 channel. That didn't work last week because without Robert's there the defence could concentrate on Phillips(and maybe he was a bit injured).

So this week we put out all our footballers on the field in Youngs, Bowe, O'Driscoll and Davies and hope their individual skills win the game. If that doesn't come off he hopes to have Phillips and Roberts fit next week to allow him to have one go at the way he wants to play.

I might be talking rubbish here but if so can anyone tell me what the game plan was last week, I know we won but what was the plan?

by Scarpia Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:51 am

I would have Phillips on the bench because he's such a different type of player at No9. if we need to change tactics he's the man.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:51 am

Not sure why it put the other post first in the this thread FHF, I think it may have been to do with the times of the posts. Hopefully I have rectified the situation now.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:57 am

Newsilure wrote:Looks to me like Gatland is taking a speculative punt at this one, hoping this team can pull off a win but with half his mind on being in the best postion to win the third test if they don't.

I don't see how that's a bad thing. Surely he has to have an eye on the third Test?

by GunsGerms Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:59 am

Scarpia wrote:I would have Phillips on the bench because he's such a different type of player at No9. if we need to change tactics he's the man.

Murray is just a younger uninjured version of Philips. Shouldnt make too much difference.

by Mad for Chelsea Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:04 pm

Comfort wrote:Mad for, that was me. I was more tryping aloud to get to grips with the reasoning as I saw it. Not saying I necessarily agree with it, but with POC and Phillips bot hout (huge fringe defenders in their own rights) I think Croft is a luxury the Lions could not afford. Genia was a constant threat anywhere up to 10m/15m out from the breakdown, thats where Lydiate likes to prowl. I'm assuming thats why he got the nod over SOB.

Also think Croft should be replaced by Grey on the bench. Nothing against Croft, but I'd just prefer SOB to cover across all the backrow and a genuine second row to come in for a bit more grunt than the mobility that croft brings.

yeah I get the reasoning. Genia though is a classy player, and I fancy will still be a threat this week-end, though hopefully Lydiate can get under his skin a bit. Is it wrong to suggest that maybe not alsways respecting the back foot could be a good ploy, try to get him rattled...

Totally agree with your second para, but I feel Gats's thinking is that Croft doesn't deserve to be dropped completely...

by flyhalffactory Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:11 pm

Cheers Ozzy mate.....

by SecretFly Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:17 pm

I just think Gatland should refrain from doing that second half signature move of sending in most of his bench at the same time. It's too predicatble, it knocks out rhythm and it gives Australia a five or six minute window of opportunity they're smart enough to use before the other guys really get up to speed.

by Taffineastbourne Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:50 pm

tigertattie wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:
tigertattie wrote:The Gatland bashing is down to his bare faced lies!

"I will pick on form"

Yeah. Ok Warren! Yer pal Lydiate has been on great form! Gatland is becoming the next Clive Woodward and making a mockery of the Lions!

Stat of the week: Gray made one less tackle than Lydiate in the game on tuesday!

We all know Maku cannot scrummage and with a lightweight 2nd row behind him, Ooooft. That scrum is gonna struggle! And there is 2nd row cover!!!!

Thats just silly!

If a 2nd row goes down, or a centre or a fullback then the Lions could be struggling big time!
Surely you must have twigged that Gats wasn't picking on form when Gray was selected to tour in the first place!
Yet another bitter Scots fan,don't you just love em:roll:

Gray had a good start to the 6N's and missed a game and half through injury! Lydiate missed a whole season!

I'd rather be a bitter Scots fan with reason than to be a one eyed welshman! (disclaimer, I know not all welsh fans are one eyed!)

We seem to be managing without too many Scots in the side and I do not think that Lydiate has let anyone down,do you?
Just watch him on Saturday.You may just see why Scotland haven't got the better of Wales for years and years.
We are 1-0 up at the moment;pretty fortunate to be honest but Wales have earned that bit of luck against Oz!About time that red jerseys nicked a close one.

by lostinwales Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:53 pm

I hope Lydiate does do well, and if he doesnt I hope the same kind of forensic examination is made of his performance as has been made of Croft's to date.

by GunsGerms Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:55 pm

lostinwales wrote:I hope Lydiate does do well, and if he doesnt I hope the same kind of forensic examination is made of his performance as has been made of Croft's to date.

Everyone in the backrow has been scrutanised.

by Mad for Chelsea Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:57 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
lostinwales wrote:I hope Lydiate does do well, and if he doesnt I hope the same kind of forensic examination is made of his performance as has been made of Croft's to date.

Everyone in the backrow has been scrutanised.

true enough, do feel Croft and Warbs have come in for a lot of undeserved criticism though...

with Lydiate his defenders will bring out the whole "unseen work" thing, which while true can be a bit of a killer as there's no real way to discuss it.

by lostinwales Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:57 pm

In which case can you tell me what Warburton did in the 1st test apart from going 'Please Sir - Please Sir - Can we have a penalty try please'..

by funnyExiledScot Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:14 pm

I think it's quite an odd selection from Gatland, particularly the bench. If AWJ gets injured the front 5 is in a mess. Croft and Parling together do not a boiler room make. I think SOB should have started at 6 with Croft on the bench, and Gray on the bench covering the locks.

I'm concerned about the Aussies targeting Vunipola in the scrum, particularly with Joubert reffing. As Adam Jones knows full well after the Murrayfield debacle this year, once Joubert has picked his scrum, it's very difficult to change his mind. If there's more than 3 completed scrums in this game I'd be very surprised, and I expect the Aussies to really target Vunipola's technique and timing.

Also surprised to see Phillips dropped completely. Youngs starting doesn't surprise me, but not having Phillips on the bench is a big surprise in my opinion.

The bench makes me really nervous. An injury to either AWJ or Halfpenny and the side is in a mess already. Who is Cuthbert there to cover for? If Bowe isn't fully fit he shouldn't be starting.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:15 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:
tigertattie wrote:The Gatland bashing is down to his bare faced lies!

"I will pick on form"

Yeah. Ok Warren! Yer pal Lydiate has been on great form! Gatland is becoming the next Clive Woodward and making a mockery of the Lions!

Stat of the week: Gray made one less tackle than Lydiate in the game on tuesday!

We all know Maku cannot scrummage and with a lightweight 2nd row behind him, Ooooft. That scrum is gonna struggle! And there is 2nd row cover!!!!

Thats just silly!

If a 2nd row goes down, or a centre or a fullback then the Lions could be struggling big time!
Surely you must have twigged that Gats wasn't picking on form when Gray was selected to tour in the first place!
Yet another bitter Scots fan,don't you just love em:roll:

Gray had a good start to the 6N's and missed a game and half through injury! Lydiate missed a whole season!

I'd rather be a bitter Scots fan with reason than to be a one eyed welshman! (disclaimer, I know not all welsh fans are one eyed!)
We seem to be managing without too many Scots in the side and I do not think that Lydiate has let anyone down,do you?
Just watch him on Saturday.You may just see why Scotland haven't got the better of Wales for years and years.
We are 1-0 up at the moment;pretty fortunate to be honest but Wales have earned that bit of luck against Oz!About time that red jerseys nicked a close one.

Two questions.

1. How/why have Wales earned a bit of luck against Australia?
2. You do know that it's not Wales playing them it's the Lions right?

by **George Carlin** Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:21 pm

Here are some numbers for you, courtesy of ESPN Scrum.com. They tend to be wrong, but at least with a single source you stand your best chance of uniform wrongness.

In 2001, second test our boiler room against Australia was Martin "ligind" Johnson (6'7", 18 stone 6) and Danny "are you looking at my bird?" Crewcock (6'6", 18 stone 7).

As FES mentioned on the other thread, if AWJ has to hobble off, our mighty equivalents would be Thomas Richard Croft (6'6", 16 stone 5) and Geoffrey Matthew Parling (6'6", 17 stone 9).

As I keep telling my wife, size isn't everything, but still: picard

by funnyExiledScot Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:24 pm

Allow me to answer those questions on his behalf:

1. Errmmmmmm...dohhhh.... I dunno.....

2. Ermmmmmm...dohhhhhh......I'm so confused.....

by tatterd Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:28 pm

lostinwales wrote:I hope ~~Lydiate~~ Youngs does do well, and if he doesnt I hope the same kind of forensic examination is made of his performance as has been made of ~~Croft's~~Phillips' to date.

Could equally apply I feel - everyone's been bashing Mike - let's hope Ben can step up to the plate in a pressure cooker situation..............

by funnyExiledScot Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:31 pm

I think Deans has to take some credit for the Phillips dropping. He set a pretty strong trap for him in the 1st Test - the Aussies covered him around the rucks brilliantly, particularly Mowen. Phillips needed to react by varying his approach and didn't, getting caught out a few times.

I think Youngs is the right call, but he's certainly going to have to play out of his skin to match Genia. His quicker service should help Sexton though - we need to see the Lions play a bit more on Saturday.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:32 pm

tatterd wrote:
lostinwales wrote:I hope ~~Lydiate~~ Youngs does do well, and if he doesnt I hope the same kind of forensic examination is made of his performance as has been made of ~~Croft's~~Phillips' to date.

Could equally apply I feel - everyone's been bashing Mike - let's hope Ben can step up to the plate in a pressure cooker situation..............

Would that be a hot plate?

by MarcusHalberstram Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:17 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
MarcusHalberstram wrote:Team seems a little odd, but always happens come the second test.

Not sure why people are still banging on about Hogg - he may have a future, but he's clearly not ready for this level yet, and has been more noted for his frailties than strengths on this tour (and I'm not talking about him playing at fly-half).

Do you care to expand for the whole forum of course, and not just us very very bitter one eyed Scottish posters.

I really would like you to expand on your statement if you please

I just don't think he's been very good! Neither does anyone else I've watched games with. I was looking forward to seeing him on tour, and a lot of people had him in their test team before the tour, but I just think he's looked out of his depth in attack and defence.

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