Lets talk about Wales!

First topic message reminder :

We knew Wales can win European grand slams and championships, but the monkey on the back of the players was for them to win in the Southern hemisphere. In all fairness that has now been accomplished.

So many of them have played a huge part in this series, surely now Gatland and these players can go to the next level?

15 Leigh Halfpenny
14 Alex Cuthbert
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Jamie Roberts
11 George North
10
9 Mike Phillips
8 Toby Faletau
7 Sam Warburton
6 Dan Lydiate
5
4 Alun-Wyn Jones
3 Adam Jones
2 Richard Hibbard
1

It's quite incredible that all of these players have now started a test game and won in Australia. While Gethin Jenkins probably would of played some role had he stayed fit.

This could be a massive shot in the arm to these players and maybe a new golden era dawn for us!  

RubyGuby wrote: I'm not sure it's about learning from our experiences - from your example it's about not succumbing to arrogance from the well to do's in life - that shows a strong sense of self and a strong will - They are very good traits to have. It means you can't be bought and money and cowpat doesn't impress you. I like that. Although I'm sure some of my BS in the past has certainly hit a chord (in a rugby sense that is)

It's been said by a few fans who appreciated the Welsh Lions endeavours this summer that they lack the arrogance and swagger of previous dominant teams, that find that would give them the edge they are missing?

Just looked at Tickets for the Wales vs Australia match, not many left...

maestegmafia wrote:Just looked at Tickets for the Wales vs Australia match, not many left...

I agree but for some reason I'm really not fancying any of the games this november. Tonga and Argentina are not the most attractive teams too watch

Lets not talk about Talk About Wales.

majesticimperialman wrote:Lets taslk about Talk About Wales

Are you remixing there MC Madge? Talk about, talk about. Talk about, talk about. Talk about, talk about Wales  

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Lets taslk about Talk About Wales

Are you remixing there MC Madge? Talk about, talk about. Talk about, talk about. Talk about, talk about Wales  

I must stop posting when i have had beer. fixed it now though. 

Shifty wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Just looked at Tickets for the Wales vs Australia match, not many left...

I agree but for some reason I'm really not fancying any of the games this november.  Tonga and Argentina are not the most attractive teams too watch

Argentina vs Gatlandball - can't wait!

I don't care what's on show as long as we beat those Argies. The players shouldn't be as disinterested as they were in last years horror series, hopefully.

What will it mean if Wales lose yet another last minute heartbreaker to Australia? Will the shrinks be called in?

GloriousEmpire wrote:What will it mean if Wales lose yet another last minute heartbreaker to Australia? Will the shrinks be called in?

Different game, we will see though, Australia will be shattered after facing all those teams in November!

I think we'll be shattered as well, and we could see two rag-tag teams going at it just like the last encounter. Never mind the players needing a shrink, I don't think I could take another last minute heartbreaker to said team...

I don't think I'd care too much. Familiarity breeds indifference.

Bring back old-fashioned tours when they'd only come a couple of times a decade and it was a Big Deal.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't think I'd care too much. Familiarity breeds indifference.

Bring back old-fashioned tours when they'd only come a couple of times a decade and it was a Big Deal.

LP,

   

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't think I'd care too much. Familiarity breeds indifference.

Bring back old-fashioned tours when they'd only come a couple of times a decade and it was a Big Deal.

LP,

   

Wouldn't be able to pay off the loan so quickly and we might go bankrupt. I do reminis of better days and like you I fondly remember the international fixture list of the ammatuer era very fondly.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't think I'd care too much. Familiarity breeds indifference.

Bring back old-fashioned tours when they'd only come a couple of times a decade and it was a Big Deal.

LP,

   

Wouldn't be able to pay off the loan so quickly and we might go bankrupt.........

Insolvent.

Irish.  

Woodward has said Wales could win the RWC...!

http://www.espnscrum.com/?CMP=m_scrum

Shifty wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Just looked at Tickets for the Wales vs Australia match, not many left...

I agree but for some reason I'm really not fancying any of the games this november.  Tonga and Argentina are not the most attractive teams too watch

We have moved from our regular position mid tier halfway line to upper tier corner...! Cheaper tickets but a fantastic view if you have a head for heights.

Upper tier corner aswell for the SA game. I've seen Wales V Aus twice, won the first , lost the second.

Seen Wales SA once and we lost. So we should def win this one

munkian wrote:Upper tier corner aswell for the SA game. I've seen Wales V Aus twice, won the first , lost the second.

Seen Wales SA once and we lost. So we should def win this one

I like those odds mate...!

We can't make the SA match at the moment due to work commitments that I have.


I have a good feeling that Wales have a realistic chance of a clean sweep. Just have to hope there are fewer injuries this year than last. We were at our fourth choice TH and fifth choice lock at one point...!

Injury wise bar Warburton we are looking very healthy, post Lions Tour..

 

munkian wrote: 

That too...!

maestegmafia wrote:Woodward has said Wales could win the RWC...!

http://www.espnscrum.com/?CMP=m_scrum

Surely we'll win it then, now that Sir Clive believes.

He's an authoritarian on all red-related things. The English rose, the Lions, Wales, shame, apples (the red delicious variety), fire engines, humiliation, my bookshelf, World Cup.

Yes, he was caught red handed with it in 2003.  

I hope Wales do well in the AIs. However, Wales are a team of dips and peaks so its really hard to know whether they are moving up or down. Sometimes their progress doesnt follow logic. I wouldnt bet on them or against them at the moment.

GunsGerms wrote:I hope Wales do well in the AIs. However, Wales are a team of dips and peaks so its really hard to know whether they are moving up or down. Sometimes their progress doesnt follow logic. I wouldnt bet on them or against them at the moment.

Very true, a credit to their opposition as much as a slight against Wales.

The teams from second to twelfth in the IRB rankings are closely matched. Wales do well on a series of games, they do well when not suffering from multiple injuries in one position. (Last autumn we had to select fourth or fifth choice players at lock and Tighthead due to injuries). The same would seriously affect any team.

This does though help give game time to up and coming players, it increases the strength and depth, we will be better positioned for the future.

I am sure all of us would love to see Wales at full strength in the Autumn, the prospect is exciting. Injury will be the key factor. We know Warburton is already a doubt, should Tipuric and, say, Nalvidi or Shingler also pick up injuries we would be looking weak at openside.

I am sure we are all just hoping for the best.

GunsGerms wrote:The teams from second to twelfth in the IRB rankings are closely matched. Wales do well on a series of games, they do well when not suffering from multiple injuries in one position. (Last autumn we had to select fourth or fifth choice players at lock and Tighthead due to injuries). The same would seriously affect any team.

It would, be especially Wales. Let's not forget Australia have beaten us five times without a host of their first choice players. Wales are affected so greatly by injuries because there is a serious drop off in ability between the top 20 to 30 Welsh players and those beneath them.

I'd also say we'd be looking weak if Shingler, a blindside, or Navidi, who is average, were our openside options.

GunsGerms wrote:I hope Wales do well in the AIs. However, Wales are a team of dips and peaks so its really hard to know whether they are moving up or down. Sometimes their progress doesnt follow logic. I wouldnt bet on them or against them at the moment.

It's part of the fun of being a Welsh rugby fan! The highs feel great when you've experienced such lows (there's a similar saying there somewhere). It must be boring being an All Blacks fan, winning all the time, etc.  

miaow wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:The teams from second to twelfth in the IRB rankings are closely matched. Wales do well on a series of games, they do well when not suffering from multiple injuries in one position. (Last autumn we had to select fourth or fifth choice players at lock and Tighthead due to injuries). The same would seriously affect any team.

It would, be especially Wales. Let's not forget Australia have beaten us five times without a host of their first choice players. Wales are affected so greatly by injuries because there is a serious drop off in ability between the top 20 to 30 Welsh players and those beneath them.

I'd also say we'd be looking weak if Shingler, a blindside, or Navidi, who is average, were our openside options.

I think thats a bit harsh on Shignler he has had few good games or spells in games and I think he will only get better.

The t/head issue is entirely one of our own making, in recent season when Jones has been injured Gatland insisted on playing Jenkins or James out of position at t/head rather than blooding a new specialist there

Griff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I hope Wales do well in the AIs. However, Wales are a team of dips and peaks so its really hard to know whether they are moving up or down. Sometimes their progress doesnt follow logic. I wouldnt bet on them or against them at the moment.

It's part of the fun of being a Welsh rugby fan! The highs feel great when you've experienced such lows (there's a similar saying there somewhere). It must be boring being an All Blacks fan, winning all the time, etc.  

I tell you the losses hurt more the less you experience them. It's never boring being an All Black fan. Being an Atletico Madrid supporter I do know the joy of beating a team you usually lose to. Scotland as my sentimental favourite has also introduced me to suffering

bedfordwelsh wrote:

miaow wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:The teams from second to twelfth in the IRB rankings are closely matched. Wales do well on a series of games, they do well when not suffering from multiple injuries in one position. (Last autumn we had to select fourth or fifth choice players at lock and Tighthead due to injuries). The same would seriously affect any team.

It would, be especially Wales. Let's not forget Australia have beaten us five times without a host of their first choice players. Wales are affected so greatly by injuries because there is a serious drop off in ability between the top 20 to 30 Welsh players and those beneath them.

I'd also say we'd be looking weak if Shingler, a blindside, or Navidi, who is average, were our openside options.

I think thats a bit harsh on Shignler he has had few good games or spells in games and I think he will only get better.

The t/head issue is entirely one of our own making, in recent season when Jones has been injured Gatland insisted on playing Jenkins or James out of position at t/head rather than blooding a new specialist there

That's not so

Last year we had Jarvis and Andrews take the reigns, year before we saw Mitchell do a good job. Jenks and james haven't crossed over in three years.

Sampson Lee had a good first season, even got some time with the welsh squad. Joe Rees looked promising for Ospreys before his injury.

Maes,

Thats two seasons, Jones has been getting knocks long before that, why wasnt someone like Mitchell given the chance 3 seasons back etc.

You can tell me at the time we had no one who they considerd even worth giving crack to

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

Thats two seasons, Jones has been getting knocks long before that, why wasnt someone like Mitchell given the chance 3 seasons back etc.

You can tell me at the time we had no one who they considerd even worth giving crack to

Craig Mitchell was a nobody three seasons back, Cai Griffiths was the back up at the Ospreys. We didnt have options.

There has been a lot of good work going into areas that Wales have had weaknesses to build our strenth.

Think of Martyn's Williams being coaxed back into the game by Gatland in 2007 for one more RWC, by 2012 we have Warbs and Tips both exceptional talents. Likewise at lock, backrow and fullback

Maes,

In those areas I agree but I am still believe more could have been done during the periods where we moves L/Heads across.

Even now I am still not convinced by Mitchell (off field antics aside) and whilst Andrews impressed and surprised me last season before that I dreaded seeing his name on a team sheet.

Lee (along with Joe Ress is it) does seem to be touted as the up and coming new kid on the block so lets hope he gets some gametime.

I still wish more had been done to work with Lewis-Roberts

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

In those areas I agree but I am still believe more could have been done during the periods where we moves L/Heads across.

Even now I am still not convinced by Mitchell (off field antics aside) and whilst Andrews impressed and surprised me last season before that I dreaded seeing his name on a team sheet.

Lee (along with Joe Ress is it) does seem to be touted as the up and coming new kid on the block so lets hope he gets some gametime.

I still wish more had been done to work with Lewis-Roberts

Beds mate

That list is a better one than any Northern Hemispere country can conspire and to be honest as better than a couple of SH nations too.

We are in a very different place than we were in the last decade, I wouldn't see front row as a weakness for Wales, especially when you compare ourselves to the other nations around us. Other than Wales in the NH only France actually have decent reserve props.

Maes,

We will have to agree to dis-agree on this one as if Adam is out then I am not yet convinced that the back up we have would really be upto it against the big guns.

L/Head I am happy with in that we have James Jenkins and Gill

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

In those areas I agree but I am still believe more could have been done during the periods where we moves L/Heads across.

Even now I am still not convinced by Mitchell (off field antics aside) and whilst Andrews impressed and surprised me last season before that I dreaded seeing his name on a team sheet.

Lee (along with Joe Ress is it) does seem to be touted as the up and coming new kid on the block so lets hope he gets some gametime.

I still wish more had been done to work with Lewis-Roberts

Beds mate

That list is a better one than any Northern Hemispere country can conspire and to be honest as better than a couple of SH nations too.

We are in a very different place than we were in the last decade, I wouldn't see front row as a weakness for Wales, especially when you compare ourselves to the other nations around us. Other than Wales in the NH only France actually have decent reserve props.

Apart from England and France's list?

I would agree with you Bedford, our reserve props haven't really had real tests on a consistent basis yet. Gill and Mitchell probably have the most potential. Jarvis has previously picked up some decent experience but can he come back after that injury? Andrews wouldn't have got a look-in if it wasn't for the TH crisis and while he did a good job I don't think he can cut it.

I think we are being a bit negative about our most recent Tighthead replacements for Adam, I am pretty certain that Jarvis had an excellent match against Argentina last Autumn and they are no mean scrummagers. And then when Jarvis went of injured in the first scrum agains the All Blacks we all covered our eyes when Scott Andrews came on only for him to have a very sound and effective match. I am not sure on Jarvis' fitness at the moment but Andrew's is showing the classic prop traits of continuing to mature and improve throughout his career, so if both of them are fit I think that with Mitchel there is some reasonable cover for Adam.

I agree on Andrews but he needs to do it consistently for the Blues and give them a platform.

At 20 years of age, Samson Lee is one of the best tight head prospects in the world. How many other 20 year olds are playing at the level he is with the scarlets? He was holding his own in the scrum by the end of the season too and was dynamic in the loose.

If last season is anything to go by his improvement over the next two seasons is likely to be rapid.

I cannot see any reason why he won't be challenging adam jones for the number 3 jersey at the 2015 world cup or even earlier.

I'm surprised that he isn't ahead of Scott Andrews and Craig Mitchell for Wales.

Scrum,

He does seem to be the next hot thing and I hope you are right but how much exposure at International level is he going to get?

Realistically, injury permitting Adam is likely to play against the Boks, Oz, Pumas and all 6 Nations games.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Scrum,

He does seem to be the next hot thing and I hope you are right but how much exposure at International level is he going to get?

Realistically, injury permitting Adam is likely to play against the Boks, Oz, Pumas and all 6 Nations games.

I don't think he'll play much in the autumn series. However, he'll be playing 6 heineken cup games against clermont, racing metro and harlequins, whatever happens with Wales. If he survives those examinations then surely he'll be challenging strongly come the six nations.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think thats a bit harsh on Shignler he has had few good games or spells in games and I think he will only get better.

Not at all. Shingler's a quality player, not far behind Lydiate in my opinion, albeit offering something completely different, at 6. I'd say he's like a more physical (and potentially better...?) version of Tom Croft.

maestegmafia wrote:Other than Wales in the NH only France actually have decent reserve props.

England comfortably have better depth in the front row. At loosehead alone they have Marler, Corbisiero, Vunipola and Matt Stevens (a 2013 Lion...). Perhaps they're a little less obviously well stocked at tighthead, but through sheer numbers alone they have better depth than Wales.[/quote]

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

We will have to agree to dis-agree on this one as if Adam is out then I am not yet convinced that the back up we have would really be upto it against the big guns.

L/Head I am happy with in that we have James Jenkins and Gill

Bevington too.

Our back up tightheads are obviously not as strong as Adam Jones, not many first choice international Tightheads are.

But we have a few lads who have proven they can fill the roll at international level, as you said yourself. That is a far better situation to be in than mist countries who literally have no depth whatsoever at Tighthead.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

We will have to agree to dis-agree on this one as if Adam is out then I am not yet convinced that the back up we have would really be upto it against the big guns.

L/Head I am happy with in that we have James Jenkins and Gill

Bevington too.

Our back up tightheads are obviously not as strong as Adam Jones, not many first choice international Tightheads are.

But we have a few lads who have proven they can fill the roll at international level, as you said yourself. That is a far better situation to be in than mist countries who literally have no depth whatsoever at Tighthead.

Never one to slip into exaggeration and hyperbole for effect, eh maes?

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

We will have to agree to dis-agree on this one as if Adam is out then I am not yet convinced that the back up we have would really be upto it against the big guns.

L/Head I am happy with in that we have James Jenkins and Gill

Bevington too.

He's proved time and time again that he can't scrum when playing for the Ospreys. He was one of the worst players in Japan despite one of ones with the most experience. He's well down the pecking order and Gill should be near the top.

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

We will have to agree to dis-agree on this one as if Adam is out then I am not yet convinced that the back up we have would really be upto it against the big guns.

L/Head I am happy with in that we have James Jenkins and Gill

Bevington too.

He's proved time and time again that he can't scrum when playing for the Ospreys. He was one of the worst players in Japan despite one of ones with the most experience. He's well down the pecking order and Gill should be near the top.

I thought he had a good season and that his scrummaging had progressed well since 11/12 season

Cyril wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

We will have to agree to dis-agree on this one as if Adam is out then I am not yet convinced that the back up we have would really be upto it against the big guns.

L/Head I am happy with in that we have James Jenkins and Gill

Bevington too.

Our back up tightheads are obviously not as strong as Adam Jones, not many first choice international Tightheads are.

But we have a few lads who have proven they can fill the roll at international level, as you said yourself. That is a far better situation to be in than mist countries who literally have no depth whatsoever at Tighthead.

Never one to slip into exaggeration and hyperbole for effect, eh maes?

Sa actually falls in that category. After Jannie du Plessis we have not one experienced tight head. So yeah, we have no depth at tight head.

maestegmafia wrote:

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

We will have to agree to dis-agree on this one as if Adam is out then I am not yet convinced that the back up we have would really be upto it against the big guns.

L/Head I am happy with in that we have James Jenkins and Gill

Bevington too.

He's proved time and time again that he can't scrum when playing for the Ospreys. He was one of the worst players in Japan despite one of ones with the most experience. He's well down the pecking order and Gill should be near the top.

I thought he had a good season and that his scrummaging had progressed well since 11/12 season

You might think that but the fact of the matter is he was outdone against Leicester and against Treviso, and was poor against Japan which lead to him being replaced by Gill who done very well (like he previously did when asked, against Ireland).

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

We will have to agree to dis-agree on this one as if Adam is out then I am not yet convinced that the back up we have would really be upto it against the big guns.

L/Head I am happy with in that we have James Jenkins and Gill

Bevington too.

He's proved time and time again that he can't scrum when playing for the Ospreys. He was one of the worst players in Japan despite one of ones with the most experience. He's well down the pecking order and Gill should be near the top.

I thought he had a good season and that his scrummaging had progressed well since 11/12 season

You might think that but the fact of the matter is he was outdone against Leicester and against Treviso, and was poor against Japan which lead to him being replaced by Gill who done very well (like he previously did when asked, against Ireland).

No denying Gills Talents at all, I rate him very highly. Bevington is still a young guy, and is progressing well, another season at the Ospreys and he will develop again. He did have a tough time vs Tigers and Treviso, good Italian Tightheads to test him there. He'll learn from it and move onwards and upwards.

Very happy to see us have four good players at loosehead and to be honest there is not too much between three of them, Gill, Jenkins and James.