Gatland blasts critics...good on ya Gats

First topic message reminder :

http://www.allblacks.com/news/22679/Gatland-blasts-critics

Back home for you Gats, if they can't respect ya, we've plenty of teams that will.

.

I have been critical of how Gatland has handled this tour from initial squad annoncement to test selection and tactics.

The fact that the team won yesterday changes none of the things that I was concerned about so I do not feel any need to apologise for raising any of my concerns.

And I can not for the life of me see why we should be eulogising over a coach who, but for a slippy bit of grass at Suncorps, very nearly lost the most winnable Lions series of recent times. And that is how close we came to losing. One slip.

Now, if all the "Real" rugby fans out there are happy to dub him Sir Warren then go right ahead but don't expect those of us with genuine concerns to apologise for expressing them

Were the other coaches criticised for dropping BOD?

Griff wrote:Were the other coaches criticised for dropping BOD?

So we only congratulate coaches if they were previously criticised?

MrsP wrote:I have been critical of how Gatland has handled this tour from initial squad annoncement to test selection and tactics.

The fact that the team won yesterday changes none of the things that I was concerned about so I do not feel any need to apologise for raising any of my concerns.

And I can not for the life of me see why we should be eulogising over a coach who, but for a slippy bit of grass at Suncorps, very nearly lost the most winnable Lions series of recent times. And that is how close we came to losing. One slip.

Now, if all the "Real" rugby fans out there are happy to dub him Sir Warren then go right ahead but don't expect those of us with genuine concerns to apologise for expressing them

I love it keep 'em coming Record win, record number of points and it just aint enough         

I have to say I was wrong, not about the dropping of BOD, I thought that if Jamie was fit, that was justifiable. I just didn't think he was, or that he could paly at Test tempo having been out for so long.

I was also wrong about the back row, I would have played Heaslip on Felatau. We don'y know what would have happened with a ManU BOD combo, of SOB, Heaslip, Lydiate, but the sidw that was picked worked. END OF STORY.




Except for Phillips, he was woeful. Only Youngs has managed to put real pace on the game in the series, Murray not far behind. Youngs would have made far more of the quick ball the forwards were producing and made the Aussie'e pain even worse.



I also have to say that this was possibly the worst performance I have seen from an Australian side in my 60 years. Once Poite decided they were faking it, they didn't have a clue or a chance over a full match period.


Pluses for England, Farrell can actually play on the gain line. With Flood and Burns, that makes a big problem for any opposition with 36 and Manu outside and the likes of Wade,, Foden, Brown, Yarde supporting them.


The futures bright, the futures white... Sorry Cherry

.

nathan wrote:

Griff wrote:Were the other coaches criticised for dropping BOD?

So we only congratulate coaches if they were previously criticised?

Congratulate who you like. You don't need my permission. My point is that Rowntree, Farrell, Jenkins, Howley have not blasted their critics (title of this thread) because they didn't really have any. Keith Wood was not tearing down their families doors to give them hell, so the apologies, backtracking, holding up of hands from posters and angry parties with cross looking eyebrows is not warranted for them as it is for Gatland (in the context of this thread).

They deserve just as many plaudits as Gatland and the players. But, like the players, effigies of them hanging were not displayed in anger.

LondonTiger wrote:

Griff wrote:Were the other coaches criticised for dropping BOD?

Farrell and Rowntree have had just as much criticism over the entire tour.

Absolute bollix. Rowntree had a little bit. I barely heard Farrell's name. Can you honestly, hand on heart look at yourself in the mirror and say that those two had exactly the same amount of criticism as Gatland. Honestly? Really?

Griff wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Griff wrote:Were the other coaches criticised for dropping BOD?

Farrell and Rowntree have had just as much criticism over the entire tour.

Absolute bollix. Rowntree had a little bit. I barely heard Farrell's name. Can you honestly, hand on heart look at yourself in the mirror and say that those two had exactly the same amount of criticism as Gatland. Honestly? Really?

No not generally, but my point was specifically to maestegmafia, who has given the Farrells plenty of grief during the tour and doesn't seem to have posted anything admitting to being wrong about it, despite posting comments criticising other people for the exact same behaviour towards Gatland.

I agree with you Thomh. It was Nathan and LT picking up on your theme and taking it down a different, dark alley!

 
The futures bright, the futures white
This fellas talking a load of sense !!!!

RubyGuby wrote:

MrsP wrote:I have been critical of how Gatland has handled this tour from initial squad annoncement to test selection and tactics.

The fact that the team won yesterday changes none of the things that I was concerned about so I do not feel any need to apologise for raising any of my concerns.

And I can not for the life of me see why we should be eulogising over a coach who, but for a slippy bit of grass at Suncorps, very nearly lost the most winnable Lions series of recent times. And that is how close we came to losing. One slip.

Now, if all the "Real" rugby fans out there are happy to dub him Sir Warren then go right ahead but don't expect those of us with genuine concerns to apologise for expressing them

I love it keep 'em coming Record win, record number of points and it just aint enough         

Well if you are happy to have Gatland take all the credit for Beale's studs giving you the series...enjoy!

History keep repeating.  This Lions tour was a repeat of other controversial years.  Anyone remember a man named Woodward?  A guy who even now gets his history thrown in his face every time he speaks.  It wasn't so inoffensively jocular either at the time of his actual misfortune?  Anyone remember themselves moaning then or 'fail' to remember those moans now?  Anyone going to be honest that they weren't all so understanding of a coach's gameplans and selections then?

Well, I'll tell you, the law of averages suggests a good few of those who are 'shocked' by Gatland's treatment during this tour weren't exactly reticent in their criticisms back then.  Only difference now is that this is a multi-media world where people can publish their whines in an instant....they don't have to whine to their pub buddy, the get international coverage.

Also, anyone remember the vilification of a referee who made a courageous call during a very important game not so long ago?  Are all people here ready to claim they weren't most vocal then in a vicious and personal way?  

I'll tell you what was often going over-board in recent days and through the week, the righteous over-reaction to criticism that goes with high intensity professional coaching.  

The vast majority of moans and groans, and complaints, and tears, and Facebook 'campaigns' were completely within the range of normal and expected drama of an intense sporting occasion - it's a passionate sport.  Anyone who can't handle its passion, get off the train.
Indeed, many of the contributions this week were actually some of the best humour posts and threads too that this oh so ultra serious joint of 606V2 has experienced since I joined.  

So...over-reaction from both sides is an accurate version of the last week of Lions.  Lovely, you'll all remember this one for a long time because of it.  Drawma colours history....and you all loved every moment of it

Don't really get the whole point of this post Taylorman. Gats gets to give his critics a two finger salute? Really? Not JUST enjoy winning a Lions series. Why is everything boiled down to a 'You were wrong, apologise' 'You showed me no respect, boo hoo'

Since when did people have to apologise for having an opinion? Isn't a congratulations all that's required? Something I'm pretty certain most posters did, whether they backed his selections and tactics or not.

Feels like some Welsh and Kiwi posters have circled the wagons and decided criticism of Gatland is a personal slight. Bottom line is, unless it's Geech, whoever manages the Lions is going to come in for some pretty fierce criticism - win or lose.

SecretFly wrote:History keep repeating.  This Lions tour was a repeat of other controversial years.  Anyone remember a man named Woodward?  A guy who even now gets his history thrown in his face every time he speaks.  It wasn't so inoffensively jocular either at the time of his actual misfortune?  Anyone remember themselves moaning then or 'fail' to remember those moans now?  Anyone going to be honest that they weren't all so understanding of a coach's gameplans and selections then?

Well, I'll tell you, the law of averages suggests a good few of those who are 'shocked' by Gatland's treatment during this tour weren't exactly reticent in their criticisms back then.  Only difference now is that this is a multi-media world where people can publish their whines in an instant....they don't have to whine to their pub buddy, the get international coverage.

Also, anyone remember the vilification of a referee who made a courageous call during a very important game not so long ago?  Are all people here ready to claim they weren't most vocal then in a vicious and personal way?  

I'll tell you what was often going over-board in recent days and through the week, the righteous over-reaction to criticism that goes with high intensity professional coaching.  

The vast majority of moans and groans, and complaints, and tears, and Facebook 'campaigns' were completely within the range of normal and expected drama of an intense sporting occasion - it's a passionate sport.  Anyone who can't handle its passion, get off the train.
Indeed, many of the contributions this week were actually some of the best humour posts and threads too that this oh so ultra serious joint of 606V2 has experienced since I joined.  

So...over-reaction from both sides is an accurate version of the last week of Lions.  Lovely, you'll all remember this one for a long time because of it.  Drawma colours history....and you all loved every moment of it

I should have written this...excellent.

Lookie here friends.  A Lions win is rare enough where I will thoroughly enjoy it regardless how we get it and who is involved.  And I couldn't be happier.  

But that doesn't mean we can't discuss objectively things which were well done and which were not.  Also who played well and who did not.  And we can do this without engaging with silly parochial commentary.  And not every comment about a player is nationalistic in origin.  We should give each other enough credit.  

Or if we talk about whether this was the best series win ever or not doesn't matter.  We won.  The first two matches were so close, we could have just as easily lost the series right there or won right there.  Tiny breaks.  And that in the last match Australia had fought back to 16-19, before the Lions put them away.  And the players on the pitch at that time deserve credit for that.

As an English guy, when people were slamming Parling or Andy Farrell and Graham Rowntree I wasn't taking it an an attack on Mother England (to be fair, Parling might actually be a Martian, not sure).

        
"Well if you are happy to have Gatland take all the credit for Beale's studs giving you the series...enjoy!"

Keep 'em coming please; more more

SecretFly wrote:History keep repeating.  This Lions tour was a repeat of other controversial years.  Anyone remember a man named Woodward?  A guy who even now gets his history thrown in his face every time he speaks.  It wasn't so inoffensively jocular either at the time of his actual misfortune?  Anyone remember themselves moaning then or 'fail' to remember those moans now?  Anyone going to be honest that they weren't all so understanding of a coach's gameplans and selections then?

Well, I'll tell you, the law of averages suggests a good few of those who are 'shocked' by Gatland's treatment during this tour weren't exactly reticent in their criticisms back then.  Only difference now is that this is a multi-media world where people can publish their whines in an instant....they don't have to whine to their pub buddy, the get international coverage.

Also, anyone remember the vilification of a referee who made a courageous call during a very important game not so long ago?  Are all people here ready to claim they weren't most vocal then in a vicious and personal way?  

I'll tell you what was often going over-board in recent days and through the week, the righteous over-reaction to criticism that goes with high intensity professional coaching.  

The vast majority of moans and groans, and complaints, and tears, and Facebook 'campaigns' were completely within the range of normal and expected drama of an intense sporting occasion - it's a passionate sport.  Anyone who can't handle its passion, get off the train.
Indeed, many of the contributions this week were actually some of the best humour posts and threads too that this oh so ultra serious joint of 606V2 has experienced since I joined.  

So...over-reaction from both sides is an accurate version of the last week of Lions.  Lovely, you'll all remember this one for a long time because of it.  Drawma colours history....and you all loved every moment of it

Fly - are you suggesting the abject failure of Woodward and Alastair Campbells circus which resulted in record defeats all round is on a par with this tour. Sometimes critcism is warranted. Gatland did not warrant what was levelled at him on this tour; particularly in the last few days. Keith Wood was man enough to come straight out to say he got it wrong. The result speaks for itself. The criticism levelled at Woodward in comparison to Gatland are worlds apart IMO  

I think the reason why Gatland has gotten so much flax is due to his previous anti-irish comments.

RubyGuby wrote:

SecretFly wrote:History keep repeating.  This Lions tour was a repeat of other controversial years.  Anyone remember a man named Woodward?  A guy who even now gets his history thrown in his face every time he speaks.  It wasn't so inoffensively jocular either at the time of his actual misfortune?  Anyone remember themselves moaning then or 'fail' to remember those moans now?  Anyone going to be honest that they weren't all so understanding of a coach's gameplans and selections then?

Well, I'll tell you, the law of averages suggests a good few of those who are 'shocked' by Gatland's treatment during this tour weren't exactly reticent in their criticisms back then.  Only difference now is that this is a multi-media world where people can publish their whines in an instant....they don't have to whine to their pub buddy, the get international coverage.

Also, anyone remember the vilification of a referee who made a courageous call during a very important game not so long ago?  Are all people here ready to claim they weren't most vocal then in a vicious and personal way?  

I'll tell you what was often going over-board in recent days and through the week, the righteous over-reaction to criticism that goes with high intensity professional coaching.  

The vast majority of moans and groans, and complaints, and tears, and Facebook 'campaigns' were completely within the range of normal and expected drama of an intense sporting occasion - it's a passionate sport.  Anyone who can't handle its passion, get off the train.
Indeed, many of the contributions this week were actually some of the best humour posts and threads too that this oh so ultra serious joint of 606V2 has experienced since I joined.  

So...over-reaction from both sides is an accurate version of the last week of Lions.  Lovely, you'll all remember this one for a long time because of it.  Drawma colours history....and you all loved every moment of it

Fly - are you suggesting the abject failure of Woodward and Alastair Campbells circus which resulted in record defeats all round is on a par with this tour. Sometimes critcism is warranted. Gatland did not warrant what was levelled at him on this tour; particularly in the last few days. Keith Wood was man enough to come straight out to say he got it wrong. The result speaks for itself. The criticism levelled at Woodward in comparison to Gatland are worlds apart IMO  

Most disappointed in you, Ruby.  Fixed you for a smarter man.  Dropped into a trap.  I knew I'd catch a slider

Are you suggesting the win was already written in the star maps and therefore criticisms in the lead up to the last game was null, void and unwarranted?  Rather arrogant view of how the present moves into the future.  Saying 'don't criticise a coach who you know is going to win ' isn't much in the way of logic.
Are you also suggesting that personal attacks and vilification of selection choices and tactics are all fair and above board when the coach is losing?  - or is about to lose because the stars say so?  
So only winners are nice men who don't deserve critics who moan and whinge their way?  A failing coach deserves all he gets, the f**ckin' useless sh*it!  That's a fine theory of selective bollicking Ruby, another principle that isn't too concerned about logic though.

The truth is probably that you remember you were once a vocal vilifier of past selections, events and coaches.  Good, that's one person who has owned up.  Any more takers???

BTW, your opinion of what went down with Woodward is just that - your opinion.  My opinion has a different memory.  As it does about the referee I alluded to.

tecphobe wrote:I think the reason why Gatland has gotten so much flax is due to his previous anti-irish comments.

No, Gatland himself alluded to the reason in interview the following morning after the test...and he finally admitted the truth. I applaud him for that at least as the implication of his decision was the burning issue.

 My opinion on SCW and that tour is just that, my opinion based on what he said and what he did. I am happy with my opinion. Whether the Lions won or lost on Saturday; Gatland did not deserve the vitriol from all quarters just because he didn't pick one of their faviourites. The result helped a little bit but Gatland is still suffering from the vitriol - It was incomparable to what SCW endured when his circus finally returned .

SecretFly wrote:

tecphobe wrote:I think the reason why Gatland has gotten so much flax is due to his previous anti-irish comments.

No, Gatland himself alluded to the reason in interview the following morning after the test...and he finally admitted the truth.  I applaud him for that at least as the implication of his decision was the burning issue.

lost me their care to explain

Nah...wrong. As I explained Ruby - the junk Woodward was getting at the time in pubs and homes all over the four Nations mightn't have been all published seconds after being spoken ...but that doesn't mean he didn't get it in the neck from present Net Etiquette Warriors who now feel slighted that their coach was getting it in the neck. Just because comments weren't published as much then as now doesn't preclude offenders from the suggestion that hypocrisy might have been running rampant here in the last few days.

As a traditionalist the Lions as an entity is very important to me selection of a multi- country team will always be debatable.Since I only saw the final stages of the First,Second,Brumbies and Waratahs matches I cannot comment much on it.
BUT the devalueing of the last two Tours has been marked.Hither to several matchs
were played pre -Tests at FULL strength by Provinces inter spersed with Tests.
WHY is it now you face 6 or so Provincial matches,ALL of which[ormost]have the
hosts Test players.Wrapped up in cotton wool in a training camp then the play 3 tests
on following weeks.
THE traditional format made at least in theory for a more even contest and a sensible
yard stick on relative form.
Finally congratulations on a successful tour.

 I see your point but in there somewhere will be people with valid reasons to criticise a coach based on rugby decisions and management alone. The staging of the Henson photo for example for me was unethical and borderline - it was a shameful act. Gatland in comparison would never entertain such a thing. There are many other instances but I really don't want to go there as its all been said and I'm comfortable with it.

Just as a matter of course I was incensed when Wales appointed Ruddock over Gareth Jenkins in 2005 and I mean incensed !!!!! (How funny does that seem now -

tecphobe wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

tecphobe wrote:I think the reason why Gatland has gotten so much flax is due to his previous anti-irish comments.

No, Gatland himself alluded to the reason in interview the following morning after the test...and he finally admitted the truth.  I applaud him for that at least as the implication of his decision was the burning issue.

lost me their care to explain

The implication of the notable drop (and he admits he knew it would go viral) of a notable player was that he wasn't the player to hack the kind of game Gatland was going to play (finally!!) to win the series.  
The implication to the world was that old man O'Driscoll was kidding himself trying to live with young speedos and must now give the field to the genuine new generation to finish it off.  
It was an insult that wasn't explained away sufficiently in the first interview as Gatland was more interested in getting across how ruthless a coach he is - first time in 15 years O'Driscoll was dropped and all that jazz.

His more recent interview says this directly - later than it might have been but welcome anyway: "if we had selected Brian we probably still would have won the game given the way we played".  The important bit is "given the way we played".  So he's admitting O'Driscoll wouldn't have hindered or hampered the game played, the very game O'Driscoll and indeed Davies probably expected to get to play in all tests - not just the last one. 
Gatland doesn't like being insulted, his fans don't like him being insulted.  Neither does O'Driscoll like being insulted and neither do we like him being insulted - his fans

Until he ends his career, that won't change.  We'll be there to defend him.  No apologies.  But Warren Gatland stepped up a tad again in my estimation for at least admitting what everyone already knew. It needed to be said.

Fly, I read the comments he made ... sounds to me like he wanted to let everyone know who the boss is.

gatland wrote:"Making a call like that was difficult," Gatland said. "We knew there was going to be some fallout.

"To be honest, if we had selected Brian we probably would have won the game the way we played.

"I felt the call was the right rugby decision, not a sentimental decision, but a rugby decision.

"I spoke to Brian after the game and said I knew how disappointed he was, but he was part of a winning series.

Oh... and this is his excuse:

gatland wrote:"A number of years ago I was involved with Ireland and we lost an away game to Scotland, which cost Ireland a grand slam," Gatland said. "Tactically, I changed the way we played, was influenced by some selections and we lost the game.

"I promised myself I would never do that again. Never back down from what I felt was the right decision. On 50-50 calls sometimes you'll be swayed by other coaches and be influenced, but when you really believe deep down it's the right decision, you have to back yourself 100 per cent.

Sounds to me like he made the decision to drop Brian to show that he was the boss.

MrsP wrote:I have been critical of how Gatland has handled this tour from initial squad annoncement to test selection and tactics.

The fact that the team won yesterday changes none of the things that I was concerned about so I do not feel any need to apologise for raising any of my concerns.

And I can not for the life of me see why we should be eulogising over a coach who, but for a slippy bit of grass at Suncorps, very nearly lost the most winnable Lions series of recent times. And that is how close we came to losing. One slip.

Now, if all the "Real" rugby fans out there are happy to dub him Sir Warren then go right ahead but don't expect those of us with genuine concerns to apologise for expressing them

It's not Gatland's fault a goalkicker wore the wrong studs.

It's all ifs and buts though mentioning that. For another thing, it's fair to assume that the second test could have ended up different if we firstly weren't holding a lead and were chasing a win like yesterday and the first test and also if we hadn't have finished the second test with a lopsided backrow. Plus, if Halfpenny's kick had gone a few inches higher (the one that hit the bar) that would've made a difference too. All ifs and buts like I say. I'll take the win and not feel the need to over analyse anything.

So according to a few Gatland would have to leave international rugby to coach a Super 15 Basketrugby team before getting a chance as AB coach utter rubbish? The NZRU are not that precious or stupid, anyway if the WRU want him that badly and I hope they do, they will have bigger wallets of that you can be sure.

RubyGuby wrote: My opinion on SCW and that tour is just that, my opinion based on what he said and what he did. I am happy with my opinion. Whether the Lions won or lost on Saturday; Gatland did not deserve the vitriol from all quarters just because he didn't pick one of their faviourites. The result helped a little bit but Gatland is still suffering from the vitriol - It was incomparable to what SCW endured when his circus finally returned .

 
Gatland isn't suffering from anything other than delusions of grandeur.
 
He's just doing his usual attention seeking behaviour. If he had any dignity he'd let the thing go, as Brian has done, and let the players enjoy their time in the sun.
 
He's won his Lions series and proved to the world that his young Welsh charges are superior specimens than the rest, the Brian O'Driscoll is not a demi-god but a expendible like the rest. He's developed his Welsh players confidence and slaughtered a few sacred cows from the other Unions. He's got his own back on the IRFU for sacking him and the SRU for the Shingler incident.
 
The fact that this isn't enough and he wants to drag it on, and remain in the spotlight, shows how pathetic and bitter Gatland is.

Hood83 wrote:Don't really get the whole point of this post Taylorman. Gats gets to give his critics a two finger salute? Really? Not JUST enjoy winning a Lions series. Why is everything boiled down to a 'You were wrong, apologise' 'You showed me no respect, boo hoo'

Since when did people have to apologise for having an opinion? Isn't a congratulations all that's required? Something I'm pretty certain most posters did, whether they backed his selections and tactics or not.

Feels like some Welsh and Kiwi posters have circled the wagons and decided criticism of Gatland is a personal slight. Bottom line is, unless it's Geech, whoever manages the Lions is going to come in for some pretty fierce criticism - win or lose.

The again maybe some Welsh and Kiwi posters circled the wagons as they decided criticism of Gatland was totally shortsighted, unwarranted,destructive and as time later shows proven to be utterly incorrect.

Hail Gatland!

But let’s be honest until the 2nd half of the 3rd test we laboured against a very poor/injury depleted Aus, the warm up game were a joke either through poor opposition (Not Gatlands fault) or poor selections.

Great that we won don't get me wrong but let’s not go over the top for a tour which apart from the result and one or two moments was very poor.

I have been critical of Gatland and was frustrated at BOD being left out because of Davies form, the captaincy issue and the tactical statement that seemed to give. AWJ showed that he is a very capable leader so no issues there. The decision to drop BOD made no difference in the end. As expected Davies didnt let us down nor did he really shine.

The most frustrating thing about the first two tests was the very negative tactics. The Lions seemed to be holding back, playing percentages, lacking ambition.

While Id like to say that the difference in the third test was a real shift in tactics, creativity and ambition on the part of the Lions backs I would have to admit that that is only part of it. The forwards really dominated and as a result we have the chance to see what the Lions backs were really like.

They didnt disapoint as I knew they wouldnt. I have said from day 1 that the Lions have a much stronger squad of player than Australia and they really should be looking at a convincing series win. Finally with a mix of forward dominance and willingness to attack in the backs they let loose. Great to see well done to all the squad.

Rodders,which sacred cows were slaughtered?
Do you really think that Warren was that bothered by the Shingler incident to wage some sort of vendetta that may have cost the victory?
Does not finishing higher than Ireland year after year satisfy him?Why would he drag his bitterness that you perceive into the Lions tour?
There are conspiracies and their is bovine excrement!

With Gatlands selection he proved anyone who had doubts completely wrong. The sheer numbers that criticised his selection were made fools of with that complete and utter victory.

Say what you want about this or that would have happened had they been selected. That aint the point. That aint how it works. He made the tough calls, he put the players on the field and simply made fools of a lot ( a LOT) of people.

Simple as that.

Backtrack to save your own dignity in trying to justify your comments, but in the end Gats had the last word, on the field as it should be.

Taylorman, not sure why you are so defensive of Gatland. You have stated before that you dont rate him at all. Why do you care if he was slated?

I suspect you are just upset the Lions won so convincingly as it simply doesnt fit into your general prejudices against NH rugby.

GunsGerms wrote:Taylorman, not sure why you are so defensive of Gatland. You have stated before that you dont rate him at all. Why do you care if he was slated?

I suspect you are just upset the Lions won so convincingly as it simply doesnt fit into your general prejudices against NH rugby.

Probably because he does not like it when people are out of order. 

LordDowlais wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Taylorman, not sure why you are so defensive of Gatland. You have stated before that you dont rate him at all. Why do you care if he was slated?

I suspect you are just upset the Lions won so convincingly as it simply doesnt fit into your general prejudices against NH rugby.

Probably because he does not like it when people are out of order. 

The level of some of the criticism was out of order, but are you really saying that Gatland and coaches deserved no criticism at all?

The coaches made mistakes, to pretend otherwise is counterproductive. they hopefully will look back at the tour with a critical eye and learn from the mistakes made. In the end a series win suggests that the mistakes were outweighed by the correct calls - but in hindsight perhaps we really should have been looking at a 3-0 whitewash.

Well done to Gatland, his coaches and his players for the success.

LordDowlais wrote:
Probably because he does not like it when people are out of order. 

Define out of order? I think Gatland deserved some criticism after tests 1 and 2. For the first two tests tactically the Lions were quite poor. The Aussies were always there for the taking yet we made quite hard work of it.

Coaches 'deserve' criticism when they are judged to have made poor selections or chosen unsuitable tactics. They also 'deserve' praise when they've done things right.

It could certainly be judged that things weren't going too well in the first two tests and it did appear that it would go a similar way for the 3rd test. It didn't and Gats, the other coaches and the players should be praised for that. That doesn't mean, however, that all the criticism should be taken back when things weren't going very well.

I'm sure Gats can enjoy his winning series without needing public apologies from anyone (least of all 606v2ers).

I agree coaches and players should shoulder responsibility and receive criticism when things do not go right, but the battering that Gatland took on here and other social networks/media for his decisions for the third test, before a ball was kicked, was out of order, and I am just waiting for people to come on here to stand up and be counted, I have only seen one member do it on here so far, this site should be flooded with apologies from certain posters on here, a lot of humble pie is needed.

Can we get a hairshirt emoticon please for all the penitents?

Taylorman wrote:With Gatlands selection he proved anyone who had doubts completely wrong. The sheer numbers that criticised his selection were made fools of with that complete and utter victory.

Say what you want about this or that would have happened had they been selected. That aint the point. That aint how it works. He made the tough calls, he put the players on the field and simply made fools of a lot ( a LOT) of people.

Simple as that.

Backtrack to save your own dignity in trying to justify your comments, but in the end Gats had the last word, on the field as it should be.

 
He didn't prove anything.
 
If he'd have picked Ryan Grant, Sean O'Brien, Manu Tuilagi and put a lock on the bench for the second test we'd have won 3- nil.
 
If O'Driscoll had started the final test, he could have went out as a winning captain, Davies could have come off the bench and the world would be a better place.
 
That was a very poor Australian side. To beat them in that manner is impressive and historically any Lions win is of huge significant but lets get real here, this wasn't the 1974 invincibles here or even the 97 team. The performances in 09 against a fantastic springbok side were much more impressive than this.
 
A win is a win and credit to all involved but Gatland has done nothing to enhance his reputation here. He's a decent but limited coach, who with the right players to implement his style can produce teams very difficult to beat. Thats not to be dismissed but he'd no tactical genius and his man management is appalling at times.
 
He's a lucky man to be blessed with such good players at Wales, and an understudy like Edwards who is the real brains behind things imo.

LordDowlais wrote:I agree coaches and players should shoulder responsibility and receive criticism when things do not go right, but the battering that Gatland took on here and other social networks/media for his decisions for the third test, before a ball was kicked, was out of order, and I am just waiting for people to come on here to stand up and be counted, I have only seen one member do it on here so far, this site should be flooded with apologies from certain posters on here, a lot of humble pie is needed.

No I think he deserved criticism. Why do you need people to apologise to him? I doubt he cares himself.

No no no

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23218013

Scrumpy wrote:No no no

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23218013

He should join a queue behind Andy Murray. They seem to give knighthoods out to anyone these day.

Some people can't take pleasure in anything. Just give over and look forward to the rugby championship and the new season

rodders wrote:

Taylorman wrote:With Gatlands selection he proved anyone who had doubts completely wrong. The sheer numbers that criticised his selection were made fools of with that complete and utter victory.

Say what you want about this or that would have happened had they been selected. That aint the point. That aint how it works. He made the tough calls, he put the players on the field and simply made fools of a lot ( a LOT) of people.

Simple as that.

Backtrack to save your own dignity in trying to justify your comments, but in the end Gats had the last word, on the field as it should be.

 
He didn't prove anything.
 
If he'd have picked Ryan Grant, Sean O'Brien, Manu Tuilagi and put a lock on the bench for the second test we'd have won 3- nil.
 
If O'Driscoll had started the final test, he could have went out as a winning captain, Davies could have come off the bench and the world would be a better place.
 
That was a very poor Australian side. To beat them in that manner is impressive and historically any Lions win is of huge significant but lets get real here, this wasn't the 1974 invincibles here or even the 97 team. The performances in 09 against a fantastic springbok side were much more impressive than this.
 
A win is a win and credit to all involved but Gatland has done nothing to enhance his reputation here. He's a decent but limited coach, who with the right players to implement his style can produce teams very difficult to beat. Thats not to be dismissed but he'd no tactical genius and his man management is appalling at times.
 
He's a lucky man to be blessed with such good players at Wales, and an understudy like Edwards who is the real brains behind things imo.

He was rightly dragged over the coals for the second test, but just because he dropped BOD for the last test all the Irish want him hung,drawn and quartered, instead of now saying ok fair enough we still won, the Irish are still up in arms over the whole fiasco, as what is posted above, lets enjoy this series victory and look forward to the new season. 

I dont see why he shouldnt be criticised for not apointing BOD captain but instead apointing a guy with one test cap as captain 4 years ago as captain. Is that in itself not worthy of criticism? Granted it worked out but a real test of a cpatains mettle is when a test is tight. The third test was a blow out.

Gatland certainly hinted it would be the case that BOD would be made captain. BOD played marginally better than Davies in game 1 and 2. Davies almost lost us the series with his missed tackle on AAC. Again should this not be questioned?

I dont see how winning the third test proves he made the right call re Davies given that he had a quiet enough game compared to all the other backs on Saturday.

To be honest though the decision to drop BOD didnt annoy me as much as the tactics in the 1st and 2nd test.