Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread

[Dolphin Ziggler]

First topic message reminder :

Man City 3 Hull 0
Cardiff 1 Everton 2
Newcastle 1 Fulham 1
Norwich 1 S'oton 2
West Ham 1 Stoke 0
C Palace 1 Sunderland 2

Liverpool 1 man Utd 2
West Brom 1 Swansea 1
Arsenal 3 Spurs 2

[GSC]

The EPL had a period of dominance in the mid to late 2000s but since then La Liga has stormed back, and the Bundesliga looks on the way up also

[The Terror of Tylorstown]

What La Liga team other than Barcelona has done anything in the champions league, it was BARCELONAS dominance not spanish football, Madrid and the others had nothing to do with it.

[mystiroakey]

Yes thats correct the epl dominated- it had half the quarter finalists every year on year. However the other two will not dominate- its just there top 2 teams have got better.


there is no way that the bundes or La liga will ever have such a great top 6 or 7 that the pl have- The set up seem to just aid bayern in germany(borussia gift them there best players when they get close!!, ) and how can any team get past real or barca in la liga..

[kingraf]

Mata and Carzola were obscure. Silva has always been rated, but was hardly in the same breath as La Liga big dogs. Carzola even less so. Mata had a great u21, though I admit I may have exaggerated the term obscure for effect.

[kingraf]

Bundesliga, to me is the best league in the world.

[GSC]

Madrid have still been in 2 CL semi finals the last 2 seasons. Hardly exiting at the group stage annually.

[GSC]

Mata was considered better than Silva at Valencia iirc.

Cazorla was not obscure

[Ent]

Why? Last year aside they've had 1 competitive team in Europe for nearly a decade.

[mystiroakey]

You can have your opinion graf .

I prefer bundes to la liga myself. But nothing beats the PL IMO. Bundes a good second. but then i don't get to watch it that much, i would rather watch that though than barca or madrid beating another team 7-0

[The Terror of Tylorstown]

How can I possibly take your opinion seriously when you openly exaggerate for effect?

Silvas 76 caps for spain must have come out of thin air then Raf, Mata was regarded as one of the best young midfielders in world football while Cazorla had been Villereals best player for 2/3 seasons before moving to Malaga. It seems to me that unless a player plays for Madrid or Barca then they can't be worth much.

[mystiroakey]

Madrid have still been in 2 CL semi finals the last 2 seasons. Hardly exiting at the group stage annually.

that really isn't much to state dude.. the PL had that for 10 years running mate.. and different teams..(not the same two)

[GSC]

The PL was dominant. No longer can I really class it as the best

[mystiroakey]

so you prefer watching what league GSC?

[The Terror of Tylorstown]

Man United made the final 3 times and the semis once in five years, nobody was waxing lyrical about them at the time but being english and not spanish they can't have been any good.

[Ent]

The quality in it has dropped but I see no reason for it not to be considered the best compared to say 5 years ago. That is lately to do with la ligas fall from grace IMO. Madrid can spend £100 million a year on players and Valencia etc are skint.

The pl has always been one of if not the most exciting and competitive league in Europe - I don't think it's as exciting these days but it could well be the best.

[GSC]

Championship

Watford Forest was miles better than Chelsea Man Utd

[The Special Juan]

Mata and Carzola were obscure. Silva has always been rated, but was hardly in the same breath as La Liga big dogs. Carzola even less so. Mata had a great u21, though I admit I may have exaggerated the term obscure for effect.

But they went where the money was.

[GSC]

Spare me the victim act. Everyone recognises United we're a quality side then.

[mystiroakey]

Championship

Watford Forest was miles better than Chelsea Man Utd

very good point- You know i love the Championship dude- Just not in it anymore!

[GSC]

Mata and Carzola were obscure. Silva has always been rated, but was hardly in the same breath as La Liga big dogs. Carzola even less so. Mata had a great u21, though I admit I may have exaggerated the term obscure for effect.

But they went where the money was.

So did Bale.

[mystiroakey]

real and barca are the only 2 teams that will spend that big. If united/city/chelsea/arsenal/liverpool/tottenham had that sort of government backing and tax breaks then they would also pay that money. However they will still spend 40 plus on players.. the top 6 in germany or spain can't do that.

[kingraf]

Dont mention Bale.. I get violent mood swings when I consider the ride Real has been taken for. It fluctuates between extreme sadness and Real anger! I give him half the season before he smells the bench in a Torres-esque failure

[mystiroakey]

Dont mention Bale.. I get violent mood swings when I consider the ride Real has been taken for. It fluctuates between extreme sadness and Real anger! I give him half the season before he smells the bench in a Torres-esque failure

so you are a real fan then?

And you don't rate bale?

[The Special Juan]

Mata and Carzola were obscure. Silva has always been rated, but was hardly in the same breath as La Liga big dogs. Carzola even less so. Mata had a great u21, though I admit I may have exaggerated the term obscure for effect.

But they went where the money was.

So did Bale.

Only 2 teams in Spain have money. Rightly or wrongly, many more have money in the PL.

[mystiroakey]

You have to say rightly - there is no wrongly about it. However the amount real and barca get to spend is wrong and dodgy as hell.

[The Terror of Tylorstown]

If we use the examples of Barcelona and Man United, how many teams have a realistic and expected chance of taking points of them in the league?

[mystiroakey]

barca- real

united- tottenham,chelsea,city,liverpool,arsenal,palace

[kingraf]

Mystir - I am a Real fan, and its not that I dont rate Bale, I just dont think £80m is his value. I also cant see how he will be allowed to shine in a team with so many superstars. Technically, there are a few players already in our squad better than him, and he clips all their wages by at least £75k

[kingraf]

Real lost to Levante before...

[Duty281]

Mystir - I am a Real fan, and its not that I dont rate Bale, I just dont think £80m  is his value. I also cant see how he will be allowed to shine in a team with so many superstars. Technically, there are a few players already in our squad better than him, and he clips all their wages by at least £75k

I haven't stopped laughing since it was announced!

[mystiroakey]

Mystir - I am a Real fan, and its not that I dont rate Bale, I just dont think £80m  is his value. I also cant see how he will be allowed to shine in a team with so many superstars. Technically, there are a few players already in our squad better than him, and he clips all their wages by at least £75k

Your team can get hold of that money because it can- the spanish government would fight for that club- it is protected.. so in truth money is no object to madrid, it will never have to pay its debts. This is what makes me sick..

anyway- great player and he will bring in fans from asian/US markets that love brit players even if he doesn't show this 85m quality on the pitch.

[The Terror of Tylorstown]

Real lost to Levante before...

Would you expect Madrid to lose to Levante? The answer is a big unequivocal no.

[kingraf]

So expected losses prove stregth? Does the fact Usain Bolt was expected to win the Olympic gold mean that it wasnt the fastest Olympic race of all time?

[socal1976]

Kingraf are you really arguing that Mata and Cazorla were obscure before they came to england. Mata was the best young star at the #3 or #4 best team in spain at that time in Valencia and Cazorla was one of two or thre best players for Villareal when they were at their best and has played quite a number of times for Spain as a midfielder in matches that count at a time when Spain is hardly lacking in that department.

And then to follow up that up with the Bundesliga are the best league in the world. One good champions league doesn't change the structure of the league. Bundesliga and SPain are great leagues. But in Germany it is Bayern and then everyone else. I mean Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkuesen all field quality sides but you really think a league where the champions every year raid the second place and third place team of all their stars is healthy? Munich can pay double and triple and quadruple for transfers compared even to Dortmund. They win almost all the trophies pretty much every year or every other year. From top to bottom no league compares to the EPL. If I could only watch one match a year as a neutral it would be Barcelona v. Real, but if I want to watch a league and watch lets say the best team play a road game against a middle table team, well my money is on the EPL in pretty much every match. Or I could watch Barca strole through their matches 4-0 and 6-1.

[kingraf]

Mystir - even without Government backing, Real have shown they can pay off big money signings, they made back almost all of Ronaldos £152m in three years off shirt sales memorobillia and image rights.

[The Terror of Tylorstown]

So expected losses prove stregth? Does the fact Usain Bolt was expected to win the Olympic gold mean that it wasnt the fastest Olympic race of all time?

I'll change the question then I wouldn't expect any of the top 5 in england to lose to anyone other than Madrid or Barca whereas four teams in england have a chance of beating them.

[kingraf]

When they were at their best, Senna and Riquelme were better players for Villareal, as was Forlan

[The Terror of Tylorstown]

Mystir - even without Government backing, Real have shown they can pay off big money signings, they made back almost all of Ronaldos £152m in three years off shirt sales memorobillia and image rights.

Similar debt levels to United, similar revenue to United, similar global standing as United but one team is able to spend £86mil on one player whereas the other can't. The government doesn't help them at all.

[kingraf]

must have missed Citys forays in Europe then, or united being manhandled by Bilbao

[The Terror of Tylorstown]

When they were at their best, Senna and Riquelme were better players for Villareal, as was Forlan

How many years ago was that now, something like 7?

[The Terror of Tylorstown]

must have missed Citys forays in Europe then, or united being manhandled by Bilbao

We were too busy battling with City for the premier league title to bother with the europa league.

[The Special Juan]

must have missed Citys forays in Europe then, or united being manhandled by Bilbao

Fulham made the final once. Unless they can do it again and again, one good tournament is all it will be. I don't want to discredit them at all because they're my favourite Spanish club but as I said, it was somewhat a case of "one good tournament". I do appreciate they made the CDR final that year though.

[kingraf]

Must have missed Socal's statement about Villareal, as he clearly said at their best. Carzola was the best player in a sinking ship. Nothing at all like the Yellow Submarine at their best

[mystiroakey]

Mystir - even without Government backing, Real have shown they can pay off big money signings, they made back almost all of Ronaldos £152m in three years off shirt sales memorobillia and image rights.

I made the point they will make back on him. That isnt the point

The point is cashflow /funding and outlook. Man U would need to finance a deal like that that would cost heavy interest charges. Real just go to the bank that likes to say yes and don't bother paying it back. Oh and also if you make a profit don't pay it back..man u have to manage there debt.

[LastDamnation]

Some people are going a bit overboard with this Ozil signing aren't they, the third best midfield in the world you're having a laugh. The midfield has the same problems he always, it's lightweight and can be dominated quite easily, Cazorla is a good player, Ozil is a very good player but the rest are nothing special. Wilshere flatters to deceive while Ramsey, Arteta and Rosicky are ok at best.

As good as Ozil is, his signing has gone no way to remedying the problems Arsenal had and still have, lack of potency up front, a poor defence, an average goalkeeper and no physicality in the middle of the park. All well and good being good on the ball and creating chances but you need a world class striker to consistently convert them and a midfield that has no defensive instincts. They'll still be battling Tottenham for 4th and that's the best that they will do.

Man City, United and Chelsea have more quality throughout the team and in Silva, Mata and Rooney to an extent have players capable of creating as many chances as Ozil did.

Did everyone already forget how well Arsenal did at the end of last season? The defence was very solid, per and kos have a fantastic partnership. Ramsey hasn't just had "a couple of good games" as someone else put it, he's been playing very well for a while now and was arguably the best player in April/May. I do agree the jury is still out on Wilshere - he wasn't fit enough last season and hasn't looked that great so far this season. Arteta is a very underrated player, particularly when you consider the plaudits Carrick got last season.
Yes another striker is needed but I'm glad they haven't panicked and spunked away 25m on someone like Michu. Obviously some things went against Arsenal in the pursuit of a striker, but they should be able to attract a quality one in January (or next summer if they go for a Ba-type stopgap in January). Giroud has now settled in English football and is a quality player and Ozil can only boost the chances that the other players will get. The fact that there is now a quality free kick and corner taker is a massive bonus too imo, walcott's corners are terrible.

[Guest]

Mata, Silva and Cazorla obscure?.

I can't get over that  

[kingraf]

Like I said, it was an exaggeration to prove a point. They are playing in one of the top three leagues, whichever way you look at it, obscure needs to be seen its relative term.

[Bull]

Ronaldo is unhappy with Madrid selling Ozil apparently.

[mystiroakey]

I have no idea why Tottenham didn't take a player off madrid yet spent 110m on other players.

Why the heck haven't they taken ozil!!

It doesn't make much sense to me..

[kingraf]

Bull - I would expect him to be, they are apparently really close friends, and Ozil has probably created the majority of his goal, he was the McCartney to Ronaldo's Lennon, the Quincy Jones to Ronaldo's Jackson, the Simon Cowell to random reality stars....

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