Eng v Aus match thread + build up

[DeludedOptimistorjustDave]

First topic message reminder :

Chance to chat about the game.
I think it will be a real cracker with England to take it by around 8 points or more.
I know every game is important but the management must have this penciled in as a must win because they can win it if they play it right.

[tigerleghorn]

Forecast is (unsurprisingly) for rain. That should suit England's slower more plodding percentages based game.

Yep, it does rain here in November. Will you be supporting England in your local English Pub or at home in your adopted England GE?

[quinsforever]

When I mentioned lightweight I meant in terms of experience at test level. After seeing the actual heights and weights maybe I should  have said overweight. But what have these guys done at the test level? Against SH sides. If club form is being touted in terms of their ability then the backs are certainly lacking. Oz may have lost some but they've played and lost to only the very best...the lions, ABs and the boks. England don't rate up there with the 3 yet either other than their win last year.

At six N time England failed to score more than one try in about five hours of rugby. That was with a better back line than this one. Where us this confidence coming from? Sure gets me.

yawn. so IRB rankings are obviously done by a bunch of english blokes down the pub then? they play daily with and against SH players. and lets not forget they are playing australia missing many 1st choice picks and on a run of bad form.

[ChequeredJersey]

Let's just be civil and see what happens

[stub]

Let's just be civil and see what happens

Yep, best not to rise to the bait with some of these posters. Although it amazes me how much the fixture and the hopes and expectations of the England supporters seems to matter to some of them... Still it builds the anticipation for Saturday.

[quinsforever]

Let's just be civil and see what happens

Yep, best not to rise to the bait with some of these posters. Although it amazes me how much the fixture and the hopes and expectations of the England supporters seems to matter to some of them... Still it builds the anticipation for Saturday.

LOL. they are probably just bricking it in case an untested england somehow manages to overcome the almighty, all-conquering ABs...again.

[ChequeredJersey]

Guys, making snide comments about non-England supporting posters isn't very civil either, there's no need

[quinsforever]

Guys, making snide comments about non-England supporting posters isn't very civil either, there's no need

oh but there is... 

[Jhamer25]

Jhamer, no need to call people idiots fella.

If you can't form a non abusive debate your not welcome on here.

Look i don't care frankly what you say, I made a point and someone wanted to make an argument of it. It's just pathetic really.

[Sgt_Pooly]

No, resorting to personal attacks is pathetic.

[BamBam]

Jhamer, no need to call people idiots fella.

If you can't form a non abusive debate your not welcome on here.

Look i don't care frankly what you say, I made a point and someone wanted to make an argument of it. It's just pathetic really.

So disagreeing with you is "making an argument"?

Your backs don't really set me alight; Mike Brown ok good attacker, don't even understand why you waist your time with Ashton and a gamble with Yarde who hasn't really played or proven himslef in a game as big as this yet. Cppmared to the Australian back three, the English look really weak..

With this team Ashton will be popping up all over the shop running off peoples shoulders looking for the off loads...and Marlon was outstanding last season...and has blizted the start of this season top scoring so far. If he was any other nationality you'd be saying different things...

The back threes...well lets hope your eating your words after Saturday...

I hardly see anything terribly argumentative in GF's post.

[Jhamer25]

No, resorting to personal attacks is pathetic.

Personal attacks, you make it sound like i've threatened him
I was trying to give support to a team i never usually support and then someone decides to be cocky and arrogant towards me.
Maybe you would have taken it, but i've been on this forum long engouh to know that some people just like to case arguments and i'm not sitting down and taking it sorry.

[Sgt_Pooly]

So form a constructive argument if you disagree.

I see nothing wrong with GF disagreeing with you, certainly not to warrant being called an idiot.

[Jhamer25]

So form a constructive argument if you disagree.

I see nothing wrong with GF disagreeing with you, certainly not to warrant being called an idiot.

Ok sorry if it came across as too harsh but as i said, ive been on hear long enough to know people like to start arguments with others for no reason. All i did was try and ive some support to your team and being told to eat my words or it for no reason.

[stub]

So form a constructive argument if you disagree.

I see nothing wrong with GF disagreeing with you, certainly not to warrant being called an idiot.

Ok sorry if it came across as too harsh but as i said, ive been on hear long enough to know people like to start arguments with others for no reason. All i did was try and ive some support to your team and being told to eat my words or it for no reason.

Probably just a bad initial choice of words I guess Jan? And, to be fair, you did go on to explain that you felt that Yarde was untested rather than weak. I think it's great if you are supporting England against Aus. Must be a strange feeling for you though I guess? You mentioned it wouldn't be your usual choice.

[stub]

I should add I'll certainly be cheering the Welsh on against SH opposition...

[Sgt_Pooly]

GF is a good bloke (as are all Falcons fans!), I'm sure he wasn't looking to antagonise.

[stub]

GF does always come over as a thoroughly decent bloke.

[Jhamer25]

So form a constructive argument if you disagree.

I see nothing wrong with GF disagreeing with you, certainly not to warrant being called an idiot.

Ok sorry if it came across as too harsh but as i said, ive been on hear long enough to know people like to start arguments with others for no reason. All i did was try and ive some support to your team and being told to eat my words or it for no reason.

Probably just a bad initial choice of words I guess Jan? And, to be fair, you did go on to explain that you felt that Yarde was untested rather than weak. I think it's great if you are supporting England against Aus. Must be a strange feeling for you though I guess? You mentioned it wouldn't be your usual choice.

First time yes, hope it doesn't catch on though. They should win, we need to start beating these Northern Hemisphere teams.

[stub]

So form a constructive argument if you disagree.

I see nothing wrong with GF disagreeing with you, certainly not to warrant being called an idiot.

Ok sorry if it came across as too harsh but as i said, ive been on hear long enough to know people like to start arguments with others for no reason. All i did was try and ive some support to your team and being told to eat my words or it for no reason.

Probably just a bad initial choice of words I guess Jan? And, to be fair, you did go on to explain that you felt that Yarde was untested rather than weak. I think it's great if you are supporting England against Aus. Must be a strange feeling for you though I guess? You mentioned it wouldn't be your usual choice.

First time yes, hope it doesn't catch on though. They should win, we need to start beating these Northern Hemisphere teams.

Ha ha! Yes we do, as a hemisphere, need to start breaking the SH stranglehold at the top. 

[GloriousEmpire]

Brown will pick a line that enables him to take the tackle on his own terms, which will usually result in him getting past or at least behind the first defender, and often draws in a second.

As long as someone is on his shoulder for the offload, that will create breaks. A big problem last year was that Brown and Ashton really didn't know how to run support lines for each other meaning that too often the supporter wasn't in position to take the pass. As long as they've worked on that, I expect them to be a handful for the Aussies.

But when does he? And when is there? He just looks like yet another ho-hum middle of the road English back to me. I really hope I'm never in the position of basing so much confidence on such a mediocre player.

[Jhamer25]

GF is a good bloke (as are all Falcons fans!), I'm sure he wasn't looking to antagonise.

Sorry if i came across as a di*k then, just thoguht it was a stupid thing to say even though I was supporting the same team.

[ChequeredJersey]

Brown will pick a line that enables him to take the tackle on his own terms, which will usually result in him getting past or at least behind the first defender, and often draws in a second.

As long as someone is on his shoulder for the offload, that will create breaks. A big problem last year was that Brown and Ashton really didn't know how to run support lines for each other meaning that too often the supporter wasn't in position to take the pass. As long as they've worked on that, I expect them to be a handful for the Aussies.

But when does he? And when is there? He just looks like yet another ho-hum middle of the road English back to me. I really hope I'm never in the position of basing so much confidence on such a mediocre player.

As you support a team in whom my 14 year old, 5 foot 5 brother would still look good if not top class, I doubt you need to worry.

[ChequeredJersey]

By the way, he's not good

[ChequeredJersey]

And I broke my own rule, sorry

[stub]

And I broke my own rule, sorry

Ha ha! Easily done CJ!!

[Cumbrian]

This thread turned (excuse my Blackadder bit) uglier than a ugly Maryport lass who got turned away from the ugly section of the Egremont Crab Fair.


That's ugly for the uninitiated.

[quinsforever]

This thread turned (excuse my Blackadder bit) uglier than a ugly Maryport lass who got turned away from the ugly section of the Egremont Crab Fair.


That's ugly for the uninitiated.

uglier than a chavettte who fell from the top of the ugly tree, striking every single ugly branch on the way to an even uglier landing

[stub]

This thread turned (excuse my Blackadder bit) uglier than a ugly Maryport lass who got turned away from the ugly section of the Egremont Crab Fair.


That's ugly for the uninitiated.

Shudder...  

[Cumbrian]

This thread turned (excuse my Blackadder bit) uglier than a ugly Maryport lass who got turned away from the ugly section of the Egremont Crab Fair.


That's ugly for the uninitiated.

uglier than a chavettte who fell from the top of the ugly tree, striking every single ugly branch on the way to an even uglier landing

Uglier than a lass that has been hit numerous times by a bat carved out of branches of the ugly tree.

EDIT: In the face.

[Taylorman]

When I mentioned lightweight I meant in terms of experience at test level. After seeing the actual heights and weights maybe I should  have said overweight. But what have these guys done at the test level? Against SH sides. If club form is being touted in terms of their ability then the backs are certainly lacking. Oz may have lost some but they've played and lost to only the very best...the lions, ABs and the boks. England don't rate up there with the 3 yet either other than their win last year.

At six N time England failed to score more than one try in about five hours of rugby. That was with a better back line than this one. Where us this confidence coming from? Sure gets me.

yawn. so IRB rankings are obviously done by a bunch of english blokes down the pub then? they play daily with and against SH players. and lets not forget they are playing australia missing many 1st choice picks and on a run of bad form.

Which is exactly why I ask where the confidence has come from. Most here are picking England to win by 8, 9 etc.
To be honest I havnt even heard of a couple of those backs. Not sure where the attacks are going to cone from if the A side couldn't do it last 6N. Yawn all you want but dismiss that point and you may as well join the lads down the pub. They'll probably know more.

[quinsforever]

most posters here have not expressed much confidence. guarded hopefulness is my reading of the average. the 8 or 9 point win is the single most optimistic result predicted on this entire thread. yet you say thats the average confidence. your post speaks for itself in terms of trying to find negative things to say.

[stub]

When I mentioned lightweight I meant in terms of experience at test level. After seeing the actual heights and weights maybe I should  have said overweight. But what have these guys done at the test level? Against SH sides. If club form is being touted in terms of their ability then the backs are certainly lacking. Oz may have lost some but they've played and lost to only the very best...the lions, ABs and the boks. England don't rate up there with the 3 yet either other than their win last year.

At six N time England failed to score more than one try in about five hours of rugby. That was with a better back line than this one. Where us this confidence coming from? Sure gets me.

yawn. so IRB rankings are obviously done by a bunch of english blokes down the pub then? they play daily with and against SH players. and lets not forget they are playing australia missing many 1st choice picks and on a run of bad form.

Which is exactly why I ask where the confidence has come from. Most here are picking England to win by 8, 9 etc.
To be honest I havnt even heard of a couple of those backs. Not sure where the attacks are going to cone from if the A side couldn't do it last 6N. Yawn all you want but dismiss that point and you may as well join the lads down the pub. They'll probably know more.

Well despite GE's comments on other threads I think us English are a generally optimistic and upbeat bunch Taylorman. Therefore we'll naturally be hopeful that we can beat Australia at home - not that I'm saying that we're arrogant enough to expect to beat them you understand... In terms of where our tries will come from well who knows? I saw Yarde earlier this season and he looked electric - strong, fast and balanced. However Saturday will be a step up and I was a little worried  about his temperament. Sounds like Ashton is finally getting his stuff together and he's been known to score. Failing that some big crashing Vunipolas perhaps... I don't care - just hope we get some.

[Taylorman]

Ok...will have to read up on some of those players. Just looks awfully thin on the experience side. Oz for all their troubles have definitely put their worst behind them and if everyones at all honest this tours a step down for them, hence the chance to build on the meagre takings for 2013. Theyve had a year to forget so far so only way is up for them.

A first up England side will need to click fast in terms of combinations and they look untried as yet.

makes for a very interesting match.

[Taylorman]

most posters here have not expressed much confidence. guarded hopefulness is my reading of the average. the 8 or 9 point win is the single most optimistic result predicted on this entire thread. yet you say thats the average confidence. your post speaks for itself in terms of trying to find negative things to say.

Fair comment. Still looks a very underprepared side and more than a few will need to step up from anything theyve played recently.

[doctor_grey]

I do worry a bit about Genia, Folau and Kuridrani.  In particular, having watched Kuridrani in Super Rugby, he seems a big strong lad with a nose for the line.  I wouldn't underestimate him, but I think he would be more effective at 13.

For England, I think Dickson is an interesting call.  The last time he played for England he was not allowed to play to his strengths, primary of which is fast delivery.  The game plan required every player to stand in virtually exact positions before passes could take place (slight exaggeration).  Bad usage of a player like Dickson, who attacks a ruck and looks to get the ball out fast to keep things moving.  If this is not the game plan, then someone else should be picked.  He was clearly uncomfortable in the game plan last year.  Hopefully this means a more attacking plan?  

Yarde is also interesting.  I am not sure he would be my first choice here, but no time like the present to blood a youngster with talent and potential, eh lads and laddesses?

I have seen Saracens a few times this season, but I do not recall Tompkins standing out.  Hopefully I missed something and he does very well.  I really want to see some cutting edge stuff from our backs (as long as they don't muck it up).  Twelvetrees deserves a nice run at 12 and I expect good things there.

Brown still scares me and I still think he should not be allowed around women and children.  

And finally (not picking on you jhammer25)................

Think England will struggle with the injuries they have at the moment.
Have a good storng ball carrying pack wit Vunipolo's, Lawes, Youngs and Robshaw but for once, the aussie will have the stornger scrum.
Yes Vunipolo is a great prop around the park, but come scrum time he is going to really struggle. I know Ben Alexander isn't known for his scrummaging but he is tactical prop. Then We all know James Slipper has already given Dan Cole a torrid time this year. You will really miss Corbs and Tuilagi..............

The Aussies have a stronger scrum?  Impossible!
It has been proven the English pack have the largest testicles. Will not be pushed back.

[aucklandlaurie]

I've just seen the Australian team, McKenzie has taken the vice captaincy off Genia and given it to Quade....Mckenzie will never die wondering.

[stub]

[quote="doctor_grey"]I do worry a bit about Genia, Folau and Kuridrani.  In particular, having watched Kuridrani in Super Rugby, he seems a big strong lad with a nose for the line.  I wouldn't underestimate him, but I think he would be more effective at 13.

For England, I think Dickson is an interesting call.  The last time he played for England he was not allowed to play to his strengths, primary of which is fast delivery.  The game plan required every player to stand in virtually exact positions before passes could take place (slight exaggeration).  Bad usage of a player like Dickson, who attacks a ruck and looks to get the ball out fast to keep things moving.  If this is not the game plan, then someone else should be picked.  He was clearly uncomfortable in the game plan last year.  Hopefully this means a more attacking plan?  

Yarde is also interesting.  I am not sure he would be my first choice here, but no time like the present to blood a youngster with talent and potential, eh lads and laddesses?

I have seen Saracens a few times this season, but I do not recall Tompkins standing out.  Hopefully I missed something and he does very well.  I really want to see some cutting edge stuff from our backs (as long as they don't muck it up).  Twelvetrees deserves a nice run at 12 and I expect good things there.

Brown still scares me and I still think he should not be allowed around women and children.  

And finally (not picking on you jhammer25)................

Think England will struggle with the injuries they have at the moment.
Have a good storng ball carrying pack wit Vunipolo's, Lawes, Youngs and Robshaw but for once, the aussie will have the stornger scrum.
Yes Vunipolo is a great prop around the park, but come scrum time he is going to really struggle. I know Ben Alexander isn't known for his scrummaging but he is tactical prop. Then We all know James Slipper has already given Dan Cole a torrid time this year. You will really miss Corbs and Tuilagi..............

The Aussies have a stronger scrum?  Impossible!
It has been proven the English pack have the largest testicles. Will not be pushed back.[/quote]

Excellent stuff!! 

[The Saint]

Having seen the teams, I think Aus look good on paper but probably won't be that good on the pitch, though they'll get a lot better as the series goes on. As for England, would you say that's the form team?

[Jhamer25]

I do worry a bit about Genia, Folau and Kuridrani.  In particular, having watched Kuridrani in Super Rugby, he seems a big strong lad with a nose for the line.  I wouldn't underestimate him, but I think he would be more effective at 13.

For England, I think Dickson is an interesting call.  The last time he played for England he was not allowed to play to his strengths, primary of which is fast delivery.  The game plan required every player to stand in virtually exact positions before passes could take place (slight exaggeration).  Bad usage of a player like Dickson, who attacks a ruck and looks to get the ball out fast to keep things moving.  If this is not the game plan, then someone else should be picked.  He was clearly uncomfortable in the game plan last year.  Hopefully this means a more attacking plan?  

Yarde is also interesting.  I am not sure he would be my first choice here, but no time like the present to blood a youngster with talent and potential, eh lads and laddesses?

I have seen Saracens a few times this season, but I do not recall Tompkins standing out.  Hopefully I missed something and he does very well.  I really want to see some cutting edge stuff from our backs (as long as they don't muck it up).  Twelvetrees deserves a nice run at 12 and I expect good things there.

Brown still scares me and I still think he should not be allowed around women and children.  

And finally (not picking on you jhammer25)................

Think England will struggle with the injuries they have at the moment.
Have a good storng ball carrying pack wit Vunipolo's, Lawes, Youngs and Robshaw but for once, the aussie will have the stornger scrum.
Yes Vunipolo is a great prop around the park, but come scrum time he is going to really struggle. I know Ben Alexander isn't known for his scrummaging but he is tactical prop. Then We all know James Slipper has already given Dan Cole a torrid time this year. You will really miss Corbs and Tuilagi..............

The Aussies have a stronger scrum?  Impossible!
It has been proven the English pack have the largest testicles. Will not be pushed back.[/quote]

Excellent stuff!! 

haha  

[Poorfour]

Brown will pick a line that enables him to take the tackle on his own terms, which will usually result in him getting past or at least behind the first defender, and often draws in a second.

As long as someone is on his shoulder for the offload, that will create breaks. A big problem last year was that Brown and Ashton really didn't know how to run support lines for each other meaning that too often the supporter wasn't in position to take the pass. As long as they've worked on that, I expect them to be a handful for the Aussies.

But when does he? And when is there? He just looks like yet another ho-hum middle of the road English back to me. I really hope I'm never in the position of basing so much confidence on such a mediocre player.

Have you actually watched him play in the last 18 months, or are you just posting from prejudice? I've got confidence that Brown will be hard to tackle because he's been consistently staying on his feet in the tackle and driving through the defender game after game at both international and club level. He did it repeatedly in last year's AIs and it sometimes resulted in a great break, but it often also resulted in turnovers because there was no-one in support to take the ball.

As I said in my original post, I hope it's been worked on.

[ChequeredJersey]

Don't rise to it Poorfour, he knows what he's said will get a rise

[sirtidychris]

He was great out of position on the wing, he ll go even better in his best spot, what's the issue, hes much better than goode and less prone to mistakes than foden.

[GloriousEmpire]

Brown will pick a line that enables him to take the tackle on his own terms, which will usually result in him getting past or at least behind the first defender, and often draws in a second.

As long as someone is on his shoulder for the offload, that will create breaks. A big problem last year was that Brown and Ashton really didn't know how to run support lines for each other meaning that too often the supporter wasn't in position to take the pass. As long as they've worked on that, I expect them to be a handful for the Aussies.

But when does he? And when is there? He just looks like yet another ho-hum middle of the road English back to me. I really hope I'm never in the position of basing so much confidence on such a mediocre player.

Have you actually watched him play in the last 18 months, or are you just posting from prejudice? I've got confidence that Brown will be hard to tackle because he's been consistently staying on his feet in the tackle and driving through the defender game after game at both international and club level. He did it repeatedly in last year's AIs and it sometimes resulted in a great break, but it often also resulted in turnovers because there was no-one in support to take the ball.

As I said in my original post, I hope it's been worked on.

My bet is he will be frequently isolated and turned over, or will run it into touch as I've seen him do in almost every game I've watched. A real sin for a for anyone playing in the back three - even at junior level. These kind of things shouldn't be "work ons" they should be innate.

[Hood83]

To be fair Doctor Grey that's not a bad plan. Farrell looks better when he kicks less.

Hood83 your dad is not a professional rugby player is he? I don't understand your dislike of Tomkins. He gets less hype than the likes of Eastmond and Joseph.

Tomkins might well not deliver but you have to give him a chance.

Is Tomkins a professional rugby player? I'm kidding. I honestly don't see it with him, and as such I don't feel we do have to give him a chance, but I guess we'll agree to disagree. I will be cheering him on and hoping he proves me wrong on Sat. If he does so, I will hold my hands up.

[ChequeredJersey]

For any England fans interested in Brown this season, he has averaged 1.4 turnovers per game this season. I do not know if this includes running into touch. He gives away an average of less than 1 penalty every 2 games this season.

[ChequeredJersey]

I literally keep a stat book on some of Quins players

[splenetic]

I don't know why people bother replying to ghost. You know he doesn't know what he is talking about and just posts to get a rise, so simply ignore him. The more you respond the more nonsense he will write and help drag this forum down further.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

[ChequeredJersey]

Sorry, thought some other people might like some facts though

[GloriousEmpire]

This season? Club rugby you mean?

It's amazing how some players look ok in the shallow pool but are shark bait in the big tank isn't it? 12 trees is another in that category.

[Hound of Harrow]

I really do think a lot of lessons have been learned by the England coaches and players after Cardiff. Most importantly the intensity with how you have to play the game at this level, and an emphasis on taking the right decisions at the right time.

It's an interesting Aussie team, not least in the change of captain and vice captain, which could well backfire. Sticking AAC on the wing is a waste, though Kurudrani is a dangerous customer.

I would have liked to see an out and out 7 in the team to put some pressure on Cooper. Not knocking Robshaw, but he's not that type of player, and we can't allow Cooper to settle into a rhythm.

Farrell will need to marshal our backline defence as we don't have any other leaders in there, which worries me. The Aussies are great at creating space and gaps.

Unless our forwards really can stick it to Aus I'm a bit apprehensive tbh.

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