Wales vs South Africa match buildup.

First topic message reminder :

OK boys, this weekend Wales and South Africa will both attempt to begin their Autumn Internationals with a win.

Both teams for different reasons.

Wales will want to build on their Six Nations form of the last two years, they will want to confirm to themselves that the British and Irish Lions tour was won because of their players, and they will want to progress from being Northern Hemisphere kings, to a team that has the ability to beat South Africa, New Zealand and Australia.

In my view, and possibly in the view of their supporters the time is now, it has been a while since Wales has been so dominant in Europe, the only thing missing before they can call themselves world beaters is to take the next step.

How much of it is mental, how much of it is due to the fact that they struggle to put 80 minute performances together I cannot be certain of, but what I do know is they have the ability, sadly it seems Cuthbert and Roberts will not be part of what I deem as the most talented and dangerous backline in Europe. For two reasons I might add, it is the most settled back line in Europe, and also very experienced.

Since the World Cup in 2011, Wales have won 9 of their 10 Six Nations matches, undoubtedly a very good record, however their problem was the seven match losing streak in between the two Six Nations.

South Africa on the other hand, has a new coach, been there for near two full seasons and he has made a difference.

Still not yet consistent, the concern is always how will Meyer ensure that the springboks perform on a consistent basis. In the past 18 months under Heyneke Meyer the boks had their fair share of poor games.

Last year out of the twelve test matches played the springboks managed to win 7 tests, drew 2 and lost three.

Although the three tests they lost were against New Zealand (twice) and Australia, there were a number of other performances that were not up to par. England in the third test at home, Argentina in Mendoza and New Zealand at home, those were poor performances by South Africa.

Although they went through the Autumn internationals unbeaten the were less than convincing.

I suppose the positive out of the performances were even when they played poorly, they managed to be on the right side of the scoreboard most of the time.

Although South Africa has shown improvement this year, the consistency is still under question.

The one aspect of their game that has improved immeasurably is their positive approach to attacking play, looking at the number of tries scored this year in comparison to last year it makes for astounding reading, in 2012 during 12 matches South Africa managed only 23 tries, conceding 16. This year in 9 tests they have managed 39 tries, conceding 18 tries.

Only New Zealand have managed to score regular tries against SA, totalling 15 tries in the last two years, the rest of their opponents only managed 19 tries in 17 matches.

Wales during 2012 managed to score 20 tries in conceding 17 in their 13 matches. During 2013 in their seven tests to date, they managed 11 tries, conceding 7.

If South Africa continues with their positive approach  to attacking plays I believe Wales will be hard pressed, their defence will have to be up to par, there is no doubt Wales will have a positive approach to the game, so from that perspective it should be an entertaining match.

There are some questions over the selections Meyer will make, will he bring Jaque Fourie, JP Pietersen and Bakkies Botha in for the first tour match, which would add significantly to the experience of the team, or will he give debutant Pieter Steph du Toit his first cap?

Of course Willie le Roux and JJ Engelbrecht may yet be inexperienced, but in my view it would be unfair to summarily dismiss them in favour of the old hands.

Wales have a few selection issues as well, who will replace Cuthbert and Roberts, and the ultimate question, will Phillips’ disciplinary record affect his chances for selection?

I still wonder who is the best fly half in Wales.

Come what may, this match should be a tough encounter, will SA prove they have made the step up and show consistency, or will Wales make the next leap towards world domination?

Springbok team for Wales.

The Springbok team to face Wales in Cardiff is:

15. Pat Lambie 29 caps 55 points
14. JP Pietersen 48 caps 70 points
13. Jaque Fourie 69 caps 160 points
12. Jean de Villiers (captain) 93 caps 120 points
11. Bryan Habana 92 caps 265 points
10. Morné Steyn 51 caps 618 points
9. Fourie du Preez 65 caps 70 points
8. Duane Vermeulen 13 caps 5 points
7. Willem Alberts 27 caps 30 points
6. Francois Louw 25 caps 25 points
5. Flip van der Merwe 31 caps 5 points
4. Eben Etzebeth 20 caps 0 points
3. Frans Malberhe 0 caps 0 points
2. Bismarck du Plessis (v-captain) 54 caps 40 points
1. Tendai Mtawarira 50 caps 10 points
Replacements:
16. Adriaan Strauss 30 caps 25 points
17. Gurthrö Steenkamp 46 caps 30 points
18. Coenie Oosthuizen 11 caps 5 points
19. Pieter-Steph du Toit 0 caps 0 points
20. Siya Kolisi 8 caps 0 points
21. Ruan Pienaar 71 caps 130 points
22. JJ Engelbrecht 10 caps 20 points
23. Willie le Roux 9 caps 15 points

Wales team for South Africa
Wales

15 Leigh Halfpenny,
14 George North,
13 Jonathan Davies,
12 Scott Williams,
11 Eli Walker,
10 Rhys Priestland,
9 Mike Phillips,
8 Toby Faletau,
7 Sam Warburton (captain),
6 Dan Lydiate,
5 Alun Wyn Jones,
4 Bradley Davies,
3 Adam Jones,
2 Richard Hibbard,
1 Gethin Jenkins

Substitutes: 16 Ken Owens, 17 Paul James, 18 Scott Andrews, 19 Luke Charteris, 20 Justin Tipuric, 21 Lloyd Williams, 22 James Hook, 23 Liam Williams

Casartelli wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

gavstar wrote:I read today rp is liked becaue he sticks to the plan.

in other words, if it ain't working, carry on . don't you dare think for yourself.

no wonder biggar is not in favour, he thinks too much and goes off plan , plays whats in front of him, how DARE he !!!!!

Yes, and James Hook is renowned for sticking to the script.  

On your point about Priestland being liked because he sticks to the plan, have you got a link or a quotation for that? Because first of all I'd like to know who said it, and it would also be helpful to know what's meant by 'the plan'. If 'the plan' turns out to be playing in the right areas unless it's on to run it, then I'd say Priestland is the better ten for that. Biggar's all-round game has developed, no question, but Priestland's still the more natural / instinctive heads-up outside half of the two. But there's less in it than there used to be.

Priestland said it himself.  When he was having the meltdown and he kicked a ball away with a three man overlap - after the match he said it was because the instruction from Howley was to always kick the ball when in his own half.

Cas, I remember it well; but as you say yourself, he was so low on confidence at the time. When you doubt yourself, the temptation is to go with the safety-first option to cover your @rse.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Ashley Beck coming onto the bench for Liam Williams isn't exactly like-for-like. Who's covering the back three? Tipuric?

He could as well....

Priestland said it himself. When he was having the meltdown and he kicked a ball away with a three man overlap - after the match he said it was because the instruction from Howley was to always kick the ball when in his own half.

This concerns me greatly.

As Walker is probably out, Hallum Amos in ? Lyn and co are at the Welsh training camp, I'm sure he could offer some replacements

http://www.welshrugbypics.co.uk/events/4144-wales-rugby-training-051113

Gosh and I thought England were sometimes accused of being script bound.
I feel a strange mixture of relief and sadness that this script thing seems widespread, not just England.
Having said that, we still get treated to spontaneous individualistic streaks occasionally which is why we watch the game.

Surely Jordan Williams will be called to the squad now. He's been a lot better than Eli this season anyway.

munkian wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Ashley Beck coming onto the bench for Liam Williams isn't exactly like-for-like. Who's covering the back three? Tipuric?

He could as well....

James Hook.

Or Scott Williams has played on the wing for Wales before

MarcusHalberstram wrote:Surely Jordan Williams will be called to the squad now. He's been a lot better than Eli this season anyway.

I guess Walker isn't too badly injured if nobody has been called up, Jordan would be my choice - but I have a feeling that Robinson is still ahead of him.

Hopefully Cuthbert should be fit soon though

Interesting also

"The likelihood is that the roof will be closed on Saturday because in the autumn internationals the decision lies with the home team. With the rain that has been falling in Cardiff this week, it's probable the WRU will elect to close the roof."

Gutted for Eli Walker. Sanjay will do a job for us though, but I wouldn't really have Beck on the bench (especially when Hook is there and covers everything bar wing and 9 on the bench).

Missed the post off Luckless about the roof. Ah well, my post was bettererer anyway.

Has Gatland still got Shane's number?  

If the turf is going to be stuffed then scrum time will be one hell of a lottery.

Risca Rev wrote:Missed the post off Luckless about the roof. Ah well, my post was bettererer anyway.

No question.

so in fact relativity speaking we using our 3rd choice winger . just thinking of excuses  

Least is isn't Ashton

Biltong wrote:If the turf is going to be stuffed then scrum time will be one hell of a lottery.

The Milly rolls up like a fine carpet.

Impossible Standards wrote:

Priestland said it himself.  When he was having the meltdown and he kicked a ball away with a three man overlap - after the match he said it was because the instruction from Howley was to always kick the ball when in his own half.

This concerns me greatly.

me too. my point has been that rp will follow to the letter, and a sarcastic comment about hook following plan ; just look whats happened to him under the welsh management, he's on the bench because he's being used. biggar will go off plan when the plan isnt working, and that doesnt mean he's a maverick, just more of his own man than rp.

by the way , preceeding 'plan' with the word 'game' is surely not necessary when we know its the 'game ' we are writing about.  

gavstar wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote:

Priestland said it himself.  When he was having the meltdown and he kicked a ball away with a three man overlap - after the match he said it was because the instruction from Howley was to always kick the ball when in his own half.

This concerns me greatly.

me too. my point has been that rp will follow to the letter, and a sarcastic comment about hook following plan ; just look whats happened to him under the welsh management, he's on the bench because he's being used.  biggar will go off plan when the plan isnt working, and that doesnt mean he's a maverick, just more of his own man than rp.

by the way , preceeding 'plan' with the word 'game' is surely not necessary when we know its the 'game ' we are writing about.  

Care to provide some examples where Biggar goes "off plan when the plan isnt working"? Genuinely curious

WATCH THE WELSH GETTING COCKY.


 



Brave, very, very brave.

Hey, its a sub par journalist getting cocky, I'm bricking it

Ooooh, i wanted Liam to start anyway so all has worked out I say. Liam puts everything into every game. Shame for Eli but i think this was the better option.

Just hope he doesn't get wound up by the saffas and get carded

I am both terrified and excited for this game.
Terrified as watching SA during the RC especially against the all blacks was mental and I don't know how we will cope
excited as AI's, finally living in Cardiff, so get the full atmosphere and Wales have had a pretty good 2013.

must be gutting for Eli as he has missed potentially a few chances to gain his first cap, however Liam Williams is a very good player as long as he keeps his calm, especially given who is reffing.
Also am not sure why Beck is on the bench, he is hardly in form and has been defensively average for the O's, would have been tempted to bring on Cory Allen or Owen Williams on to the bench, despite their lack of experience

I wonder how Phillips will play?

He's in need of a job, he likes the physical stuff and is facing the boks. Think he could have a blinder as he's made for games such as these... I also think Eben will have him by the collar at least once in the match.

As much as I would have started with Williams I do feel for Walker, I think we would all love to experience the build up to a home debut only to have injury snatch it away, gutted wouldn't be the word.

if he just missed the SA game would have been less painful but by the looks hes out of the AI , all together . (please dont do the airplane sketch )

Poor selections litter the team in my opinion.
I never really understood the calls for Richie Rees when Mike was in his pomp, but he's playing the best rugby at scrum half in Wales. Followed by Gareth Davies at the Scarlets.
I GENUINELY believe that Gatland and co don't like the way he picks his head up and 'goes the other way' if it's on, rather than going from touch line to touch line in the hope that one of the 25 stone South Africans trips on a daisy, and a gap appears.

Andrew Coombs. A stop gap last season, an unknown. This season, abrasive, aggressive, exceptional hands, ruling the skies, and the odd head stamp for good measure. He should have partnered AWJ, Bradley Davies is probably a yellow card waiting to happen, and is extra bulk doesn't outweigh what Coombs offers. Let's hope Bradley gets back to the ball carrying beast he was.

That was Biggar's shirt, and Gats knows it. Priestland has got the moves, and the talent, but we watched a seven game meltdown by a player like I've never witnessed before. Biggar stepped in and guided us to the championship. Priestland hasn't done enough to erase those memories for me, and Biggar has been rewarded by being dumped out of the squad.
Maybe he'll get his chance against Tonga behind a scratch pack to make him look poor - AS USUAL.
I see the Ospreys shunted him to 15 to accommodate Morgan at 10. Much as I'm a huge ospreys supporter, I wouldn't blame him if he moved to France.

Y'know , I'll be going nuts as per, but I can't say the selection fills me with over confidence.

nice to read HG , if any other 10 had those 6ns games on his record, and the season he's had so far , and then lost the shirt, some posters would be spitting........imagine if it had happened to hook !!!!! darling of the romantics. rp has not done enough to win the shirt back.

as for examples of biggar off plan, ask any osprey supporter. he gets the game by the scruff when its slipping. he goes 'off 10', takes on non 10 tackling, leads by example.

one game this season he saved two certain tries by completely playing whats infront of him .

6ns france , would rp have chanced that kick for the winning try, no way !!!

HG,

My problem isn't with Phillips starting as I still think he can offer us something no one else can, my problem is if he doesn't bring his A game as they say then Ll Williams coming off the bench won't give us anything he's terrible. Gareth Davies isn't currently automatic 1st choice at th Scarlets at the moment so I am happy with R Williams being in squad just wished we had put him on the bench.

Like most I would have started with Biggar and at least had him on the bench especially now with Walker being out, I just think he must have really upset Gats somewhere along the line. That said IMO an in form Priestland is still better than an in form Biggar and Priestland is in form.

Onto the your 2nd row debate, for me if Charteris is fit enough for the bench then I would have started him with Coombs on the bench, Davies like you said is a yellow waiting to happen that said he has been one of the Blues better performers this year.

Let's hope everyone who wants Priestland to fall on his face tomorrow is disappointed.

Really excited as neutral to see how this goes. For me its about the SA pack against the Welsh backs.

SA are favourites for sure, really impressed with them over the past 12 months but if Wales can get an early lead and get the crowd behind them they've definitely got the firepower and quality to go on and win.

Two teams high on confidence and on an upward curve so it should be a belter.

Rodders, mate I think respectfully you are wrong.

It is about much more than the SA forwards. Our backs played a big role this year.

I look at Wales backs and outside of North and Phillips I see no danger.

Halfpenny kicks well but in a deathmatch vs. Morne I'd choose Morne every day of the week.
North is a real threat, big chap with good feet but with Pietersen and Habana SA have 2 good defenders and if he cuts inside JDV & Fourie will take care of him... they make their tackles.

Phillips revels in these games, I would say he's most likely to grab a try in the match. Built for games such as these.

To be honest I don't think the Welsh backs will be the definer... the welsh game relies completely on front foot ball from their pack... without it they are toothless. If they can't compete upfront then SA will just walk away with it.

Planet rugby are Predicting a 9 point win to SA. Interestingly, its only been a margin of 1 then 5 points the last couple of games. I wish we played SA more, its usually a cracking fixture

Previous results:
2011: South Africa won 17-16 in Wellington
2010: South Africa won 29-25 in Cardiff
2010: South Africa won 34-31 in Cardiff
2008: South Africa won 20-15 in Cardiff
2008: South Africa won 37-21 in Pretoria
2008: South Africa won 43-17 in Bloemfontein
2007: South Africa won 34-12 in Cardiff
2005: South Africa won 33-16 in Cardiff

Did you play us twice in Cardiff in 2010 ?

yes. first match was a june test in 2010.

fa0019 wrote:I look at Wales backs and outside of North and Phillips I see no danger.

I hope the Boks take to the field tomorrow with the same attitude.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I look at Wales backs and outside of North and Phillips I see no danger.

I hope the Boks take to the field tomorrow with the same attitude.

Lucky for us then that FA isn't the bok coach, eh?

fa0019 wrote:I look at Wales backs and outside of North and Phillips I see no danger.

Halfpenny kicks well but in a deathmatch vs. Morne I'd choose Morne every day of the week.
North is a real threat, big chap with good feet but with Pietersen and Habana SA have 2 good defenders and if he cuts inside JDV & Fourie will take care of him... they make their tackles.

Phillips revels in these games, I would say he's most likely to grab a try in the match. Built for games such as these.

To be honest I don't think the Welsh backs will be the definer... the welsh game relies completely on front foot ball from their pack... without it they are toothless. If they can't compete upfront then SA will just walk away with it.

You obviously haven't seen Scot Williams and JD2 play together that much then, or much of Liam Williams, I hope you are unpleasently surprised  

fa0019 wrote:yes. first match was a june test in 2010.

I remember that one. I had to get a train to Bristol while the match was still being played. We were leading when the train left Newport. I blame Bristol.

Biltong wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I look at Wales backs and outside of North and Phillips I see no danger.

I hope the Boks take to the field tomorrow with the same attitude.

Lucky for us then that FA isn't the bok coach, eh?

I'd be taking them out on the lash the night before... all they have to do is turn up right???

fa0019 wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I look at Wales backs and outside of North and Phillips I see no danger.

I hope the Boks take to the field tomorrow with the same attitude.

Lucky for us then that FA isn't the bok coach, eh?

I'd be taking them out on the lash the night before... all they have to do is turn up right???

As long as Wales doesn't turn up in that case all should end fine.  

Liam Williams is a fairly tasty player with ball in hand. Question for the Welsh. Does he suffer from the same sort of myopia that plagues Earls and Fitz in that he is brilliant at making breaks and beating defenders but not great at linking with team mates?

munkian wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I look at Wales backs and outside of North and Phillips I see no danger.

Halfpenny kicks well but in a deathmatch vs. Morne I'd choose Morne every day of the week.
North is a real threat, big chap with good feet but with Pietersen and Habana SA have 2 good defenders and if he cuts inside JDV & Fourie will take care of him... they make their tackles.

Phillips revels in these games, I would say he's most likely to grab a try in the match. Built for games such as these.

To be honest I don't think the Welsh backs will be the definer... the welsh game relies completely on front foot ball from their pack... without it they are toothless. If they can't compete upfront then SA will just walk away with it.

You obviously haven't seen Scot Williams and JD2 play together that much then, or much of Liam Williams, I hope you are unpleasently surprised  

I like Scot Williams actually. Caught a Scarlets Harlequins match a while back... he was good.

All I'm saying is that I see SA well versed, 3/4 way through their season and well drilled. North & Phillips are the danger men, the guys who can get SA a little hot under the collar. SA have no real weakness in their backline. How Fourie will play is a bit of a mystery... been out a long time. Otherwise they are a tough team to breadown.
Without front foot domination I think they will be 1 step behind their usual and that will have a severe impact on their attacking game.

GunsGerms wrote:Liam Williams is a fairly tasty player with ball in hand. Question for the Welsh. Does he suffer from the same sort of myopia that plagues Earls and Fitz in that he is brilliant at making breaks and beating defenders but not great at linking with team mates?

I'd say he's very good at bringing others into play. If you look at the Scarlets' games against Quins and Racing Metro, he set up / was involved in a few tries.

As an England Fan and supporter of the Lions, I thought Mike Phillips was dreadful for the Lions ( Connor Murray should have started) and he has now been turfed out his club.. Do Welsh fans feel it is time for him to be dropped from the Wales team?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

fa0019 wrote:yes. first match was a june test in 2010.

I remember that one. I had to get a train to Bristol while the match was still being played. We were leading when the train left Newport. I blame Bristol.

Its a wonderful escape goat  

pbuk0 wrote:As an England Fan and supporter of the Lions, I thought Mike Phillips was dreadful for the Lions ( Connor Murray should have started) and he has now been turfed out his club.. Do Welsh fans feel it is time for him to be dropped from the Wales team?

Won 2 tests with him starting so no, he does the job.

Its his backup I'm worried about, Williams is Poopie. Would like to see Rees or Wayne Evans given a go

Phillips is best for these big physical matches. Against slicker sides I guess there is an argument for him to be replaced but against the boks... he's nailed on.

i looked on south Africa facebook page and it seems the boks only need to turn up and it be a walk in the park

Why is this match on at the same time as the Ireland game? So inconsiderate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!