England Squad for NZ Tour and 6N

First topic message reminder :

And I've posed it in that order for a reason. England have already said that their objective is to win the 6N (with France away first up, that's a pretty big ask...) but thy also have a 3 game tour to NZ coming up in which the first game will be played without the AP finalists.

So the challenge is - how do you put together the 6N squad so that whoever makes the final, you have enough players who've played together by the end of the 6N that England can field a half-decent side with players from the top two sides missing? I suppose the good news is that for once the EPS is a nice mix of players from various teams, but a Saints-Sarries final would be a serious hindrance.

The EPS on 1 Aug looked like this. Who would be your squad? And how would you prepare them?

England senior EPS:

Forwards: David Attwood (Bath Rugby), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints), Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), David Wilson (Bath Rugby), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs: Chris Ashton (Saracens), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby), Danny Care (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Alex Goode (Saracens), Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), Christian Wade (London Wasps), Marland Yarde (London Irish), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

England Saxons:

Forwards: Calum Clark (Northampton Saints), Jordan Crane (Leicester Tigers), Paul Doran Jones (Harlequins), Will Fraser (Saracens), James Haskell (London Wasps), Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers), George Kruis (Saracens), Kearnan Myall (London Wasps), David Paice (London Irish), George Robson (Harlequins), Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks), Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers), Luke Wallace (Harlequins), Rob Webber (Bath Rugby), Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)

Backs: Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints), Elliot Daly (London Wasps), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Ugo Monye (Harlequins), Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby), Joe Simpson (London Wasps), David Strettle (Saracens), Mathew Tait (Leicester Tigers), Joel Tomkins (Saracens), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

Flood confirmed as off abroad and therefore out of the RWC. Farrell must not be sent to NZ and should instead spend the summer resting and complete a full pre season whilst England look at Burns and Ford in the pressure cooker environment to see if either of the young 10s has the ability to step up as a contender. We cannot enter a RWC with only Farrell having any international experience.

Agreed Sam. I would have rested Farrell anyway for NZ given that if he plays the remainder of the season then went on tour he'd have played more than 24months straight. Not good leading up to a RWC.

Farrell and probably Cole as well I'd have in the definitely rest category with a few others such as the Youngs brothers, Mako Vunipola, Corbs (may not be available anyway), Launchbury and Robshaw considered for it.

Personally I'd look to take a big squad and rotate so that the above sort of players don't have to play all 3 tests when it would risk burnout. That would allow us to still field a strong side:

1.Marler, Vunipola and one of Mullan, Wood and Waller
2.Hartley, Youngs, Webber
3.Wilson, Brookes and one of Thomas, Doran-Jones, Knight
4.Launchbury, Attwood, Slater
5.Lawes, Parling, Kitchener
6.Wood, Haskell, Garvey
7.Robshaw and two from Kvesic, Fraser and Wallace
8.Billy V, Morgan

9.Youngs, Care, Dickson - I'd love to see Robson there though
10.Ford, Burns

11.Yarde, May
12.Twelvetrees, Eastmond and whoever is playing best between Allen and Barritt
13.Tuilagi, Trinder, Daly
14.Wade, Nowell, Ashton
15.Brown and two from Foden, Tait and Watson - let form separate them at the time

A big squad like above could cover for missing players in the first test and allow a strong side to be played in each game whilst getting a look at new players/combinations. Obviously picking players is academic now due to injury and form nearer the time but it does demonstrate that we have the quality in many positions to name such a large squad.

My feeling is that England need a new backs coach. The forwards have done the job, but there's just nothing behind the scrum.

Not PDJ. He's not good enough to play for Quins yet never mind England

I do under stand when people say we should rest players for the NZ tour. But can we honestly afford to rest hour best players when playing against the NO 1 team in the world.

Also i do agree with taking a large squad, you cannot afford to go out the with out sufficent back up.

We need to bring players on more often than we do at present in my opinion. England need to blood players put them in the England set up, get them used to being in and around the squad.

England cannot afford too hang on to players that are out of Form just because is is no one to take their place... Their should all ways be some one ready to come in and take their place.

I'd have Brookes a bit further down the pecking order. He's 2nd choice at Newcastle.

Chequered and Driver

Re the THs I'd agree having the likes of Brookes and PDJ there wouldn't be ideal but the bottom line is we're struggling for THs after Cole and Wilson.

Brookes - Looked great for Falcons when he's played but has been rotated throughout the season - wouldn't say he's necessarily second choice given the rotation Richards has stuck with.

PDJ - Showed great promise for several years and has improved in recent seasons but struggled for Quins this year.

Thomas - Great promise for Sale and the Saxons but big questions over his scrummaging.

Knight - I've rated him highly for several years but is part of a Gloucester scrum that has struggled massively this season.

After those you've got the likes of Collier, Sinckler and Scott Wilson who whilst showing huge promise are just starting out in their Prem careers. Out of them Collier is the most experienced and playing well for Quins.

GloriousEmpire wrote:My feeling is that England need a new backs coach. The forwards have done the job, but there's just nothing behind the scrum.

I don't know if that's intended as a wind-up, but I think it betrays a loack of understanding about what Lancaster is doing. The initial focus in his teams has always been on defence, followed by set moves and then encouraging them to play what's in front of them. Over last season the team gradually built up until by the NZ, Scotland and Ireland games the back division was playing pretty well. But this season he had to start again with a back division that had a different scrum half, a centre pairing with about half the caps that, say, even Piutau has, and Brown moving across to fullback. The emphasis went back to defence and the understanding between the players didn't come as quickly.

We need to see whether the back division starts to perform in attack once the squad has a full complement of players who are used to playing together. We're not like the All Blacks where a new player can slot into an established system. England are still trying to establish a system with some very inexperienced players.

Poorfour I actually agree with Glorious empire aka the Ghost.

Mike Catt is just not doing the job as an attacking coach, perhaps Andy Farrell is stifling things too but there's definitely something going wrong in that area. I think are players are good enough in the back division.

Just need to be utilised more effectively. Sometimes it's tough because you have players with differing styles but it's the attack coaches job to turn them into an effective attacking unit.

Does anyone honestly think England have utilised the back three properly for example since Lancaster has taken charge?

I think Lancaster's done a good job overall but the backline has been incohesive.

Owen Farrell is supposedly a fly half who can't get his backline going yet his team are top try scorers in the AP, top try scorers in the HC too.

Ashton is supposedly hopeless yet he has 4 tries in 7 AP games and 4 tries in 4 HC games.

Beshocked -  Out of interest from a Sarries fan what do you think of Farrell Snr as a coach? General consensus from many seem to be he's good for defence but tends to stifle the attack. Do you feel Sarries have been better or worse of for him leaving?

Mike Catt I'm not sold on either. He had little more experience as a coach than MJ did when he was given the top job, and personally I think it has showed. Injuries to key attacking players have taken their toll no doubt but at the same time we have still seen FB's on the wing, a lack of pace in the backs in general and Farrell apparently being ordered to stand pointlessly deep which neuters the centres. The above is not a formula that is going to offer any sort of threat to international defences. As attack coach Catt should be screaming for it too change but you can't really see the effects if he is.

On Ashton, I agree he is better than many admit and in the right game plan can be devastating but at the same time the deficiencies in his core skills compared to some younger challengers can't be ignored. His handling, passing, tackling and positioning in defence are all a fair way behind the guys like Wade, Yarde, May, Nowell and Benjamin who have spent significant time in the age groups sides and academies as youngsters. Can also be argued those 5 are all faster than him and have better footwork.

In a side that is punching holes for him to run lines off in attack and experienced/savy enough in defence to hide those flaws he can work very well. Unfortunately for the Splash the current England side, especially with the injury issues, isn't the sort of team which he seems likely to excel in.

Absolutely agree on Ashton. Seeing Wade's handling skills on the argy tour was a revelation

See Eastmond got the RFU try of the year , Hope he gets a go at 12.

Utterlly agreed LIW watching Wade's soft hands for, I think it was 12Trees try, I very nearly shed a tear of delight.

My question on Ashton's try scoring form, perhaps a Sarries fan can enlighten me: Are the tries he has scored ones which any other premiership winger would score relatively easily?

By this I mean that any winger can walk a ball over the line/dive for the line, but I have watched Wade score some tries that I defy almost anyone to score. I am not a Wasps fan by the way and I respect Sarries dominance but in that team it's pretty easy for a winger to look good.

king carlos sometimes it's obviously difficult to tell how much the gameplan/input comes from Farrell Sr but I do think he has a significant influence. You are probably right - defensively he's good, attacking wise he's a bit restricting but surely that's where Mike Catt comes in.

Sarries seem to have scored more tries without Farrell Sr.

Disagree completely about Ashton's passing and handling being behind other candidates. I would say he's very good actually. Wouldn't say they are faster either - Ashton is still very quick. Seems to be enjoying himself at Sarries now.

little badger the thing about Ashton is that he gets himself in the right positions to take that try scoring pass. He makes it look easy but his support play is excellent. He's either there to help keep the move alive or he scores himself.

He's a different winger to Wade, he doesn't generally skip out of tackles like Wade but he's still pacy (see his recent try vs Zebre). Once he's up to top speed he's very difficult to stop.

Plus for example he created Ransom's try vs Exeter.

Yes Sarries utilise their wings well but you could argue - why don't other sides and why don't England?

Ashton is a different type of winger to Wade, I certainly wouldn't say Wade has better basic skills.

What Wade can do is create things from nothing, he'd probably suit the current England set up as the wingers live off scraps.

Ashton is more of a poacher, if a team is generating chances he'll get himself in the right positions to finish. That in itself is a skill, not as obvious as Wade dancing through tackles but used correctly just as potent.

It's a good point beshocked regarding his support play and I haven't been able to watch the Zebre game so I can't comment. He obviously enjoys his club environment but I do feel when it comes to England he goes off the boil. Is it game plan, confidence, being stifled, who knows but increasingly it doesn't seem to fit together. The autumn centre partnership did not work and would have made any winger look off, but it has been happening longer than that.

Ashton has umm 35 caps (?) we know what he can do, what his strengths are, what his weaknesses are. Is he the first name on the team sheet? No. Is there cultivated (i.e caps) depth in his position. No. For me that means we have to blood youngsters now.

Without a fit Wade though who are the right wingers pushing for Ashtons place? I can only think of Walker and Nowell. Given that we're probably going to see a new 10 (who also need to be blooded) an outside centre and a left winger is there a case for some continuity at least in the starting 15?

Can't we just play Goode foden brown across the back 3?

Or get Cuerto out if retirement. Monye on the bench.

England just don't have enough utility wingers.

7%1/2 - what's the alternative? We wait a bit longer, end of the 6 nations, tour to the best team in the world?

I'm not saying we make all those changes at once, we have to start a new 13 that's for sure, but start the new wings when Farrell plays, not the new 10. It's not ideal playing a new set of wings and a 13, but TBH I think there might be blood on the streets if England continue with a back line resembling the autumn.

I think we might see Anthony Watson on the wing, SL clearly rates him.

Exactly sgt pooly.

little badger the back three overall hasn't been good for England with Lancaster in charge has it? The centres haven't really given the back three enough ball - Ashton has scored when England's given him and the back three a decent platform - e.g. NZ and Scotland.

I would suggest England needs to try out a new 13 - perhaps Joseph and May at 11. Leave the rest of the backline the same.

That means Dickson,Farrell,May,36,Joseph,Ashton,Brown.

Two new players - you can't completely rehaul the backline in one game.

I like the look of that backline Beshocked.

I'd quite fancy a look at Burrell too, we don't possess too many players who run hard and straight.

beshocked wrote:king carlos sometimes it's obviously difficult to tell how much the gameplan/input comes from Farrell Sr but I do think he has a significant influence. You are probably right - defensively he's good, attacking wise he's a bit restricting but surely that's where Mike Catt comes in.

Sarries seem to have scored more tries without Farrell Sr.

Disagree completely about Ashton's passing and handling being behind other candidates. I would say he's very good actually. Wouldn't say they are faster either - Ashton is still very quick. Seems to be enjoying himself at Sarries now.

little badger the thing about Ashton is that he gets himself in the right positions to take that try scoring pass. He makes it look easy but his support play is excellent. He's either there to help keep the move alive or he scores himself.

He's a different winger to Wade, he doesn't generally skip out of tackles like Wade but he's still  pacy (see his recent try vs Zebre). Once he's up to top speed he's very difficult to stop.

Plus for example he created Ransom's try vs Exeter.

Yes Sarries utilise their wings well but you could argue - why don't other sides and why don't England?

I can see we won't agree on Ashton's handling as I've always viewed it as below par! His passing game is pretty limited (tends to be a catch it and put your head down type player) and his handling especially when under pressure from a quick defence is suspect as well IMO.

As for his speed he's certainly not slow (far from it) but I'd say he's slower than Yarde, Wade and May at full tilt and probably just slower off the mark than those three and Nowell/Benjamin as well. Doesn't make him a slouch as all those guys have been considered impressive athletes right from the age group sides.

I agree his support play is good but in the international arena in recent years I've always had the feeling that pressure on other aspects of his game has caused him too get involved in the game less. Then again the depth Farrell stands at (whether his choice or the coaches) makes it difficult for him to run support lines as we lack any penetration to make use of them.

As I've said I don't think he's a terrible player as many make out and I certainly don't feel his international career should be at an end as some have suggested. I just think we have enough talent in the likes of May, Nowell and Benjamin, as well as Wade and Yarde when fit, that we should start bringing those guys through and seeing what they can do.

Regardless of why he's struggling, repeatedly picking Ashton when he's continuing to struggle at international level isn't going to tell us anything new about what the youngsters are capable of. Also importantly for the player himself it will likely see his confidence continually drop given the scrutiny he is currently under every time he runs out for England.

Hmm

I think Burrell needs to be looked at. Big powerful direct guy, yet he's showed a good bit of handling skills this season. HIm and Tuilagi could be a powerhouse in there.

BUt i still think in Twelvetrees we have a crackin players and id really like to see Eastmond develop.

With regards to Ashton...i think its unfair to judge him when hes not getting any ball. Im not sure Wade, May etc would do much better with the quality and quantity of ball / chances he's getting.

I also think Farrell needs to play more on the gainline not in the pocket.

Not convinced about Cipriani...

Geordie - We've got a few centres I'd like to see given a shot with Burrell and Eastmond offering something different in the 12 shirt and Trinder offering some guile at 13 that we've been missing for a while.

The one thing I hope we don't see is Eastmond or Burrell played out of position at 13 in their first caps as I don't thing it would be a good decision for them or the side.

12.Twelvtrees 13.Trinder or 12.Burrell/Eastmond 13.Twelvtrees

That's what I'd be looking at personally. Billy has played OC before and has the passing game to use the wings as well as the bulk and power to carry it up when needed. He's also got a decent step on him. You could argue that he'd be vulnerable to being beaten for pace on the outside but if Barritt is fit he will likely be at 13 and pretty much the same pace as Billy if not slightly slower off the mark. His positioning in defence is better though in fairness.

We certainly have options...but so many of them are unproven as of yet. Truthfully aside from Tuilagi and Barritt we dont know how any of them will really perform at this level. Like wise many of the wigners being touted.

little badger I am not against blooding youngsters but when you lose the two frontrunners to injury - Wade and Yarde there's not too many options left on the wing.

May - perhaps deserves a chance but was ineffectual on the weekend vs the worst side in the league. Can't judge a player on one game of course but current form is important. Still at least he's got 4 tries in the AP.

Nowell - simply too inexperienced,been a bit of hype going around but I feel he needs more gametime under his belt. Also would be nice if he could score some tries while at it!

Just 5 games - 0 tries, let's start him for England!  

Benjamin - has done little so far this season.

Sgt Pooly would be a risk but have Burrell at 13 or instead of 36 could be an option.

king carlos you can't know how quick each player is unless they have a race or look at their stats (that none of us have).

Can't say that any of the centre options fill me with confidence.

If only Daly or Tait had been playing some centre recently...

Nowell does look good but too early for him yet. If May doesn't get his chance in the 6N I think he must have insulted Lancaster's mum. Centre does remain the big issue though. Will Burrell help the creativity or do we go for someone like Trinder? I hope some more emphasis will be placed on creativity and speed as I think the pack is strong enough now to secure some good possession so we shouldn't have to pick the becks on how good at defending they are (well not all of them at least).

Still unproven though CJ...as was Lowe etc.

All these players should have been looked at already...and thats bad planning from Lancaster and his team. If Tuilagi is undisputed starting 13...we should now know exactly who is his understudy..or even main challenger for the position. We dont.

Same for severl other positions...namely FH, Wing...

Not sure Lancaster can be completely blamed as you only have a certain amount of games and you don't want to discard people and judge them too early. He has tried serveral options but for 1 reason or another it's not happened yet.

NZ no doubt will have Snake back. That means the Ben Smith experiment ends at 13 and he moves back to the wing and so has free range to express himself with the Highlanders. So that will likely mean Piutau moves to the utility back position and with Benji Marshall with the Blues, he may even get some time in the centres if Hansen asks Kirwan and Ted nicely. Crotty is another option to cover for the centres.

So barring injury and form issues, a backline of A Smith, Cruden / Barrett, Nonu, C Smith, Savea, B Smith, Dagg is what in all likelihood England faces. England face the coming 6N with quite a few injuries. I don't expect SL to experiment with players in that tournament unless his hand is forced by injury. That is already the case, which suggests to me that the players around those enforced changes will be more likely to be experienced players to give those young players the best possible amount of confidence.

Come the first test against NZ and you have to factor out some test players due to club commitments. Here is where I think SL will be most likely willing to experiment. Not only do injuries force his hands but also club commitments. Perfect justification to throw some players into the deep hand, remove the pressure of winning by emphasising that England has nothing to lose by giving the ABs a crack, and then assessing where England stands at the end of the first test.

NZ take a while to settle into test rugby. I wouldn't call them slow starters but the cohesion and combinations are not quite there in the opening tests, notably on attack. France, for example in the June series, without many of their test players held NZ to respectable scores in the 1st and 3rd tests. NZ won't be in any mood to start the international season after this year and with a RWC in England looming with charitable intentions. They will feel England will grow as a threat the more time they have together on the tour. Players arriving late and a mid week game against the Crusaders side will most likely see a lift in performance.

Conditions could well play a start. Night games and rain are quite likely to occur on tour and that plays into the hands of England who will feel they have an edge in the pack. I don't think SL will want to experiment on attack the more the tour goes on but the first test is an ideal time to ambush the ABs with a game plan they won't see coming with players they know very little about. But as the tour goes on, rest assured NZ will sniff out any weaknesses to exploit and this is where, particularly on defence, England will have to be rock solid.

But what does 'looking at' another player actually mean? After all - the England rugby team is in the business of winning games. Its not in the business of experimenting for the sake of it.

We are also in the situation where there are a lot of potential young talents out there but very few older experienced internationals.

We have also been unlucky. Take the positions GF mentions. Tuilagi is a one off. There are arguably 2 main understudies/ challengers in Joseph and Trinder. The former is off form (at least compared to where he was at a little while ago) and the latter seems to suffer from JSD disease (I wonder if its contagious...)

FH- undisputed 1st choice is Farrell and the two main challengers have been Burns and Flood - see above just change the names around

I agree LIW its not in the business of experiementing...however the total lack of offensive rugby, Tuilagis enforced ommision has left everyone clueless as to who should be in there. There should have been some experiementation to see how these players do in games that arent as critical. I would accept a defeat if we saw just how well some ofthe pretenders handled it against the Kiwis etc..

Through the last few years only Joseph (and most recently Tomkins) has really been checked out at 13...and that so far has fallen flat on its face.

Who advised Daly to play 15 needs shooting.

No 7 &1/2 or perhaps Lancaster might have watched Gloucester - May might suffer because of this.

Trinder? Really another player part of the famed under performing Gloucester back division?

Sounds like I am really bashing Gloucester but I continually baffled that so many people want to fill the England backline with so many players from a team performing so badly.

Geordiefalcon that's the problem though. None of the other 13 candidates are anywhere near as good as Manu at the moment. There's no obvious replacement because of this.

If Nowell was tearing up the AP and HC with tries galore a risk might be warranted but he's not. In terms of tries and appearances, Ashton is emphatically outperforming him.


None of the names mentioned in my opinion have stood out from our current options.

I am pessimistic because there seems to be a lack of decent contenders to challenge the likes of Ashton and Farrell. Both who have had decent seasons in my opinion.

Of course I am biased but when you think they are part of the side currently top of the league and top try scorers some of the credit must go to them.

I think sometimes you've got to look beyond stats. May's been playing really well and Nowell does look good. You look at Yarde coming into the team; tries scored suggests he didn't deserve that chance but he's looked good so far. Someone like Sharples or Strettle have scored lots of tries and then looked decidely average when given the chance. I know you're a Saracens fan but there are several players who could come into your backline and outperform your current players in my opinion.

Tait clearly not unproven at 13, just unproven whether he is the player he was before injury (his performances at 15 imply so), and Daly looked pretty good for a poor Baabaas side against England and the Lions

no 7 & 1/2 I do look beyond stats.

May had a poor game on the weekend and foolishly got himself sin binned for two dangerous tackles.

You say Yarde has looked good so far. He's barely played for England.

Sharples has not scored lots of tries, I am sure if he had people would claim he's the messiah.

Strettle has only scored lots of tries in the last year. Before then his try scoring form was pretty poor.

I am used to the Saracens' backline being underrated. I do find it quite amusing though - because most of the time they outplay their opposite numbers despite being seen as not as exciting. Perhaps it's because defence is as important as attack?

They have a good platform but no more than Bath,Saints or Tigers.

Even the unfashionable players have been in good form this season. Wigglesworth outclassed B.Youngs despite not being rated by many.

Individually the Saracens backline might not be as rated highly as others but they are in form, well organised and have been effective in their roles.

I think only two Saracens backs should start in the 6 nations as it is anyway - Farrell and Ashton. I have a quite strong case I would say.

I would only have the 2 you say as well. It's not a dig at Saracens as I don't really support any 1 club. I like watching saracens but they are built on defence and organisisation. If you could bring that organisation and sprinkle a few mavericks in the mix also it would be ideal for me. Sarries are where they are because they have got a great set of forwards not backs.

When Sharples got his chance I thought he was top scorer or there abouts, I may be wrong. Yarde has looked as good a left winger for a long while to me.

When it comes to wings I'm firmly of the view that when you're good enough you are old enough and experienced enough to be given a go. Especially guys who have come through the age group sides and academies with a high standard of coaching and therefore strong core skills.

There is a reason that NZ tend to bring wingers through young and cut them loose earlier than many sides do. It's because once wingers reach their early 30's, build up of niggling injuries and age rapidly take their toll on the players potency as it relieves them of a yard of pace and bit of agility very quickly. For a winger at international level that is detrimental to their potency in attack.

Incidentally that is also why I wouldn't look to Strettle for the 6N. A few years ago I rated him extremely highly and desperately wanted him in the side when Cueto lost a yard of pace. Sadly I feel his time to make an impact in an England shirt has passed due to poorly timed injuries.

beshocked - Whilst it's hard to judge a players outright pace (as you'd see in a race) during a match it is possible to see how they use their pace (especially acceleration) in how they play.

For the sake of interest with the limited stats I can find Jonny May is regarded as one of the fastest over 40m clocking 4.6s which is only a tenth of a second slower than Adam Gemilli (4.5s) and quicker than Dan Norton (4.8s) who's one of the quickest on the sevens circuit. May has also clocked 10.7s for the 100m with Charlie Sharples reportedly neck and neck with him in Gloucester speed testing so we can assume he's a similar pace.

I can't find any stats for Wade, but he and Varndell (around 10.5s for 100m) are said to be pushing each other very close in speed training at Wasps which is no mean feat. Sadly I can't find anything for Benjamin, Nowell and Ashton though as it would be interesting to compare times especially over 40m as acceleration is vital in rugby, especially in their positions.

Are there mid week games?

Crusaders game between 2nd and 3rd tests.

Ironic that there's been so much talk about how the SH sides have failed to put out full strength franchises for the Lions games, and yet England needed their arm twisted to play the Crusaders.

Did they?

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3824_9032722,00.html

Looks to me as though it was all down to NZRU as most of the payers are central contracted?

Such a shame Hamish doesn't have a B starting his name instead of a R. That would sadly have made my year...

Another miss by greyghost.

Sam Smith the Harlequins wing impressed again yesterday, actually right now I'd place him ahead of May who can look a little Balshaw'ish in his shot selection at times.

May has bags of potential and with good coaching should be ok.....I do worry about the coaching....'just go out and express yourself 'boyo'.....and if he's really lucky......'have you read the this coaching manual', 'and here's a letter from great aunt Edna'.

Sam Smith is a solid young winger who's deceptively physical. To be honest though he's had a fairly hit and miss time at Quins and while he's coming good now probably needs another season at least before he's looked at even for the Saxons.

On the other hand i'm going to be totally hypocritical and say Charlie Walker needs to be in the Saxons ASAP. Btw he scored another on Sat too.

I do fear we will see Splash Goode and Brown as the back three in Paris.

For me Only Brown would be a nailed down selection, obviously at fb - he had a really interestingly frustrating game yesterday - he definitely has a blind spot in his mindset and spatial vision, and it will very intersting to see if he can overcome his inability to give the pass? Otherwise it maybe his and our downfall.