What the hell is going on in Wales?

by Intotouch Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

Hello knowledgeable Welsh friends. I've read some extraordinary things lately about the war between the regions and the union in Wales, but being an outsider, and not following this closely for years I'm not sure what's real and what's nonsense. Can someone please help clarify a few things for me?

1. I read that the WRU have a deal with the regions that they will each be given the same amount of money annually by the union for the next five years. This was interpreted by some as the union deciding to slowly let the regions go bust so they can set up new regions that they would own. Is this really the case? It sounds completely crazy to me! Wouldn't this be a disaster in Welsh rugby and couldn't they try to buy the regions instead since they have more money now? Could this really be a plan?

2. The WRU is making a profit and with the millenium stadium paid off should have plenty of money to splash about in the future. (Or do they?) As they won't give more money to the regions this suggests that they want the regions to founder (see above).

3. Although the WRU pay millions to the regions annually they have little or no say in how they are run so are deeply frustrated with the regions. Also the regions can't stand the WRU even though they're keeping them afloat. Is this true and why?

4. The WRU offered central contracts to the players in the regions but the regions rejected this. Even though they would have a smaller wage bill if it went ahead. Why?
The regions have the lowest salary cap in Europe and keep losing their best players. But the regions won't let the WRU pay the internationals out of a central contract. As players have to be released anyway to play for Wales I don't see why the clubs wouldn't be delighted to do this. Are they afraid that they would lose them to too many training camps? I don't follow the logic of this. If the WRU paid the players then surely the regions would be able to keep more of their best players playing in Wales which surely would benefit them as they'd have stronger teams. Again I don't get why this is such a problem.

(Please don't include the possible move to the AP on this thread. It's being debated elsewhere.)

by Cardiff Dave Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:44 pm

Munchkin wrote:Why no success when they had stronger teams? Enough of the excuses.

Leinster 12-17 Ospreys
"The Ospreys won the first-ever Magners League Grand Final by beating Leinster at the RDS in Dublin on Saturday night."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8713104.stm

by HammerofThunor Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:52 pm

Sin é wrote:Compare the Welsh Regions to the Irish Provinces in how they are run.

The IRFU give each of the Provinces 5M per annum The regions get 4M (big 3 anyway, Connacht has a different set-up) and the IRFU have total control of the provinces who have to develop other streams of income from ticket sales, Jersey sales, sponsorship etc. When I say control, the Ireland management can call in any player to hold tackle bags for the national squad and the provincial coaches have to deal with it. The WRU can call on the players whenever they want as well, in the current PA

The IRFU take all the money that the provinces earn from the Pro12 & the Heineken Cup (about 12M per annum I think). The Provinces can keep the gate money in the group stages.Same with the Regions

For home QFs in the Heineken Cup, the gate money is split between the competing teams, but wait for it, the IRFU take 50% of the provincial share of the gate (for example, Leinster home QF v Leicester a few years ago in the Aviva - Leicester got more out of it than Leinster). The ERC take the gate money for semi finals/finals.No idea with the regions

The Welsh Regions should count themselves lucky they get such an easy ride from the WRU. So the Regions get less money, don't have best players paid for with Central Contracts AND have to give up players in the same way as the Provinces AND should count themselves lucky?

by doctornickolas Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:58 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Oh and just to be clear as well Roger has had 20 years of top level experience. There is no one at regional level who can even remotely boast his commercial background. Instead they appointed a former "jobs for the boys" in Gallagher.

I'd rather see well educated, experienced and business minded people running the game. I dont want to see Gwyn from down the road start negotiating our commercial deals with commerical giants.

Thanks for that. Have you not heard the name Peter Thomas, the multimillionaire?
Seen his house on the outskirts of Cardiff? Fecking huge it is. Bet it's bigger than Dodgers.

Is that Peter Thomas the multi-millionaire who inherited his dad's multi millionaire business and that was run by his brother and sister before they all sold up. he has done nothing on his own other than run Cardiff rfc and the Blues badly. The only commercial deal I know of him signing is the 25 year lease with no get out clause to play at CCS for a small fortune each year. That Peter Thomas you mean.

by Guest Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:59 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Why no success when they had stronger teams? Enough of the excuses.

Leinster 12-17 Ospreys
"The Ospreys won the first-ever Magners League Grand Final by beating Leinster at the RDS in Dublin on Saturday night."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8713104.stm

They had the players, Dave, and still have teams that can do serious damage. Just not consistent though. I had the Ospreys to finish top 4 this season, and they still might, but reckon if the regions had better coaching tickets in the past then they could have challenged HEC final spots. Especially the Ospreys. When I look at the success of Wales in the 6N I can believe that the regions have underperformed. When I look at the success of the provinces I can believe that Ireland have underperformed. We will find out the truth of that with Schmidt now in control, I guess.

by Guest Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:14 am

HammerofThunor wrote:
Sin é wrote:Compare the Welsh Regions to the Irish Provinces in how they are run.

The IRFU give each of the Provinces 5M per annum The regions get 4M (big 3 anyway, Connacht has a different set-up) and the IRFU have total control of the provinces who have to develop other streams of income from ticket sales, Jersey sales, sponsorship etc. When I say control, the Ireland management can call in any player to hold tackle bags for the national squad and the provincial coaches have to deal with it. The WRU can call on the players whenever they want as well, in the current PA

The IRFU take all the money that the provinces earn from the Pro12 & the Heineken Cup (about 12M per annum I think). The Provinces can keep the gate money in the group stages.Same with the Regions

For home QFs in the Heineken Cup, the gate money is split between the competing teams, but wait for it, the IRFU take 50% of the provincial share of the gate (for example, Leinster home QF v Leicester a few years ago in the Aviva - Leicester got more out of it than Leinster). The ERC take the gate money for semi finals/finals.No idea with the regions

The Welsh Regions should count themselves lucky they get such an easy ride from the WRU. So the Regions get less money, don't have best players paid for with Central Contracts AND have to give up players in the same way as the Provinces AND should count themselves lucky?

Yup, I have to agree with Hammer. The regions get less than the Irish regions (£15m split by 4) but also do not have any contracts centrally funded. Under the welsh central contract proposal that £15m would go, whereas the Irish provinces still get £5m each after central contracts are paid for. Sweet. Give me some of that action.

The only advantage the regions get is with 100% of gate receipts (not sure if the dragons have to give up half to the WRU?). However, as they say: 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing! What I mean is that due to low crowds, that 100% gate receipt on a 6,000 crowd is probably less income than the provinces get for their 50% taking. The WRU can't be blamed for that though I guess.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:20 am

Said on Newstalk the other night that a lot of Welsh players had moved to France and England for very similar money.

by Cardiff Dave Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:23 am

doctornickolas wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Oh and just to be clear as well Roger has had 20 years of top level experience. There is no one at regional level who can even remotely boast his commercial background. Instead they appointed a former "jobs for the boys" in Gallagher.

I'd rather see well educated, experienced and business minded people running the game. I dont want to see Gwyn from down the road start negotiating our commercial deals with commerical giants.

Thanks for that. Have you not heard the name Peter Thomas, the multimillionaire?
Seen his house on the outskirts of Cardiff? Fecking huge it is. Bet it's bigger than Dodgers.

Is that Peter Thomas the multi-millionaire who inherited his dad's multi millionaire business and that was run by his brother and sister before they all sold up. he has done nothing on his own other than run Cardiff rfc and the Blues badly. The only commercial deal I know of him signing is the 25 year lease with no get out clause to play at CCS for a small fortune each year. That Peter Thomas you mean.

Aye
http://www.apdplc.com/people.html

and the move to CCS had no get out clause I guess because there was no intention of getting out. CAP was to be flattened and a swanky building attached to the MS for the use of the WRU. Kerching!

by Sin é Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:23 am

HammerofThunor wrote:
Sin é wrote:Compare the Welsh Regions to the Irish Provinces in how they are run.

The IRFU give each of the Provinces 5M per annum The regions get 4M (big 3 anyway, Connacht has a different set-up) and the IRFU have total control of the provinces who have to develop other streams of income from ticket sales, Jersey sales, sponsorship etc. When I say control, the Ireland management can call in any player to hold tackle bags for the national squad and the provincial coaches have to deal with it. The WRU can call on the players whenever they want as well, in the current PA

The IRFU take all the money that the provinces earn from the Pro12 & the Heineken Cup (about 12M per annum I think). The Provinces can keep the gate money in the group stages.Same with the Regions

For home QFs in the Heineken Cup, the gate money is split between the competing teams, but wait for it, the IRFU take 50% of the provincial share of the gate (for example, Leinster home QF v Leicester a few years ago in the Aviva - Leicester got more out of it than Leinster). The ERC take the gate money for semi finals/finals.No idea with the regions

The Welsh Regions should count themselves lucky they get such an easy ride from the WRU. So the Regions get less money, don't have best players paid for with Central Contracts AND have to give up players in the same way as the Provinces AND should count themselves lucky?

WRU grant £16.8M to the Regions (and they get to keep all their gate money)
IRFU grant €20M to the provinces (have to share some of their gate money).

Not that big a difference really in the funding.

(IRFU give out very few central contracts anymore. At the moment - BOD, Heaslip, Kearney, Ross, Healy for Leinster. POC, POM, Murray, Ryan & Earls for Munster. Best, Bowe & Trimble for Ulster).

The WRU have offered to put 6 players on WRU contracts, but the Regions won't have it.

by Guest Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:26 am

I don't doubt that Jenifer. Those on decent contracts already, for example. However, I know others have gone for the cash. Hook is one. Lydiate is a great example - still only on £80k as his first contract (after his development one) and not offered an increase so was, in his words, forced to take the money elsewhere.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:36 am

Sin é wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
Sin é wrote:Compare the Welsh Regions to the Irish Provinces in how they are run.

The IRFU give each of the Provinces 5M per annum The regions get 4M (big 3 anyway, Connacht has a different set-up) and the IRFU have total control of the provinces who have to develop other streams of income from ticket sales, Jersey sales, sponsorship etc. When I say control, the Ireland management can call in any player to hold tackle bags for the national squad and the provincial coaches have to deal with it. The WRU can call on the players whenever they want as well, in the current PA

The IRFU take all the money that the provinces earn from the Pro12 & the Heineken Cup (about 12M per annum I think). The Provinces can keep the gate money in the group stages.Same with the Regions

For home QFs in the Heineken Cup, the gate money is split between the competing teams, but wait for it, the IRFU take 50% of the provincial share of the gate (for example, Leinster home QF v Leicester a few years ago in the Aviva - Leicester got more out of it than Leinster). The ERC take the gate money for semi finals/finals.No idea with the regions

The Welsh Regions should count themselves lucky they get such an easy ride from the WRU. So the Regions get less money, don't have best players paid for with Central Contracts AND have to give up players in the same way as the Provinces AND should count themselves lucky?

WRU grant £16.8M to the Regions (and they get to keep all their gate money)
IRFU grant €20M to the provinces (have to share some of their gate money).

Not that big a difference really in the funding.

(IRFU give out very few central contracts anymore. At the moment - BOD, Heaslip, Kearney, Ross, Healy for Leinster. POC, POM, Murray, Ryan & Earls for Munster. Best, Bowe & Trimble for Ulster).

The WRU have offered to put 6 players on WRU contracts, but the Regions won't have it.

Wow, put like that, it doesn't seem that the regions are particularly hard done by, or am I missing something? Headscratch

by Welshmushroom Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:42 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Oh and just to be clear as well Roger has had 20 years of top level experience. There is no one at regional level who can even remotely boast his commercial background. Instead they appointed a former "jobs for the boys" in Gallagher.

I'd rather see well educated, experienced and business minded people running the game. I dont want to see Gwyn from down the road start negotiating our commercial deals with commerical giants.

Thanks for that. Have you not heard the name Peter Thomas, the multimillionaire?
Seen his house on the outskirts of Cardiff? Fecking huge it is. Bet it's bigger than Dodgers.

Your getting confused with ownership and management there. I can own a business as primary shareholder and make all the profits. As pointed out Peter inherited an already succesful business. I'm sure the business had a operating manager who would have dealt with the day to day running of that business. Roger by contrast comes from a background of such management positions and unlike Peter has always been answerable to majority shareholders and a totally different business outlook.

Also before you start heralding Peter as the Welsh answer to Bill Gates keep in mind that the guy sold pie's and not good ones at that.

by quinsforever Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:46 am

doctornickolas wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Oh and just to be clear as well Roger has had 20 years of top level experience. There is no one at regional level who can even remotely boast his commercial background. Instead they appointed a former "jobs for the boys" in Gallagher.

I'd rather see well educated, experienced and business minded people running the game. I dont want to see Gwyn from down the road start negotiating our commercial deals with commerical giants.

Thanks for that. Have you not heard the name Peter Thomas, the multimillionaire?
Seen his house on the outskirts of Cardiff? Fecking huge it is. Bet it's bigger than Dodgers.

Is that Peter Thomas the multi-millionaire who inherited his dad's multi millionaire business and that was run by his brother and sister before they all sold up. he has done nothing on his own other than run Cardiff rfc and the Blues badly. The only commercial deal I know of him signing is the 25 year lease with no get out clause to play at CCS for a small fortune each year. That Peter Thomas you mean.

didnt Roger Lewis work for the BBC? hardly the bastion of entrepreneurialism and commercial success. more the epitomy of central command and control if you ask me

by Welshmushroom Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:57 am

Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:58 am

by Sin é Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:59 am

quinsforever wrote:
doctornickolas wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Oh and just to be clear as well Roger has had 20 years of top level experience. There is no one at regional level who can even remotely boast his commercial background. Instead they appointed a former "jobs for the boys" in Gallagher.

I'd rather see well educated, experienced and business minded people running the game. I dont want to see Gwyn from down the road start negotiating our commercial deals with commerical giants.

Thanks for that. Have you not heard the name Peter Thomas, the multimillionaire?
Seen his house on the outskirts of Cardiff? Fecking huge it is. Bet it's bigger than Dodgers.

Is that Peter Thomas the multi-millionaire who inherited his dad's multi millionaire business and that was run by his brother and sister before they all sold up. he has done nothing on his own other than run Cardiff rfc and the Blues badly. The only commercial deal I know of him signing is the 25 year lease with no get out clause to play at CCS for a small fortune each year. That Peter Thomas you mean.
didnt Roger Lewis work for the BBC? hardly the bastion of entrepreneurialism and commercial success. more the epitomy of central command and control if you ask me

Career History
2004 to date:

Managing Director, ITV Wales
Board Director, HTV Ltd
Director, HTV group Ltd
Director, Carltonco 120 Ltd

Formerly:
Managing Director Classic FM
Board Director, GWR group plc
President, Decca Record Company
Managing Director, EMI Premier
Head of BBC Radio One

Current trusteeships:
2006 Member of the Wales Arts Review Panel
2006 Chairman, Arts and Business Wales

2004 to date - Trustee, Wales Millennium Centre
2003 to date - Chairman, Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Society
2003 to date - Director, Liverpool European Capital of Culture
1996 to date - Chairman, Ogmore Centre Trust

by Cardiff Dave Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:02 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Wow, put like that, it doesn't seem that the regions are particularly hard done by, or am I missing something?

From my point of view as a Cardiff supporter and without mentioning cash, the following are a pain in the backside;

1) the 13 day rule (ie the regions have to release players 13 days prior to a team wales game).
2) the 4th AI (leaves little time for HEC prep).
3) regionalism itself as it's caused nothing but aggro from day one. Needs addressing in my view.
4) the LV=, aka Anglo-Welsh is pants now compared to what it used to be like.

You could add 7s rugby and arbitrary NWQ limits to that list too I suppose.

by Cardiff Dave Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:09 am

Welshmushroom wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Oh and just to be clear as well Roger has had 20 years of top level experience. There is no one at regional level who can even remotely boast his commercial background. Instead they appointed a former "jobs for the boys" in Gallagher.

I'd rather see well educated, experienced and business minded people running the game. I dont want to see Gwyn from down the road start negotiating our commercial deals with commerical giants.

Thanks for that. Have you not heard the name Peter Thomas, the multimillionaire?
Seen his house on the outskirts of Cardiff? Fecking huge it is. Bet it's bigger than Dodgers.

Your getting confused with ownership and management there. I can own a business as primary shareholder and make all the profits. As pointed out Peter inherited an already succesful business. I'm sure the business had a operating manager who would have dealt with the day to day running of that business. Roger by contrast comes from a background of such management positions and unlike Peter has always been answerable to majority shareholders and a totally different business outlook.

Also before you start heralding Peter as the Welsh answer to Bill Gates keep in mind that the guy sold pie's and not good ones at that.

Me heralding the Pieman? Shewerly not. I wanted to shoot him for the CCS debacle and isn't he answerable to shareholders at Cardiff RFC get togethers?

by Cardiff Dave Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:12 am

Sin é wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
didnt Roger Lewis work for the BBC? hardly the bastion of entrepreneurialism and commercial success. more the epitomy of central command and control if you ask me

Career History
2004 to date:

President, Decca Record Company

Decca turned down The Beatles. Doh

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:25 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Sin é wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
didnt Roger Lewis work for the BBC? hardly the bastion of entrepreneurialism and commercial success. more the epitomy of central command and control if you ask me

Career History
2004 to date:

President, Decca Record Company

Decca turned down The Beatles.

That may have been before his time, Dave?

by Cardiff Dave Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:51 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

That may have been before his time, Dave?

Before my time too mun.

More doom and gloom....

Italians are questioning;

"the Italian Rugby Federation debating whether to keep its two professional teams, Treviso and Zebre, in the tournament. Its participation agreement with the three Celtic unions runs out at the end of the season and there is deadlock over its renewal."

and the Welsh;

"The legal advice they have received is that to roll the participation agreement on would be a financially reckless decision"

"There is no meeting planned between the WRU and the regions between now and 31 December and no hint that the deadline will be extended. The four have had regular talks with Premiership Rugby about a 16-team Anglo-Welsh league, going so far as to consider whether reverting to their clubs names, Llanelli for the Scarlets, Swansea rather than Ospreys, Cardiff dropping the Blues and Newport losing the Gwent Dragons, although there would be legal issues to address and clubs with those names exist in the Welsh Premiership, a competition of potential that generates little in the way of publicity."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/19/rugby-union-wales-deadline-heineken-cup

by Guest Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:01 am

Sin é wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
Sin é wrote:Compare the Welsh Regions to the Irish Provinces in how they are run.

The IRFU give each of the Provinces 5M per annum The regions get 4M (big 3 anyway, Connacht has a different set-up) and the IRFU have total control of the provinces who have to develop other streams of income from ticket sales, Jersey sales, sponsorship etc. When I say control, the Ireland management can call in any player to hold tackle bags for the national squad and the provincial coaches have to deal with it. The WRU can call on the players whenever they want as well, in the current PA

The IRFU take all the money that the provinces earn from the Pro12 & the Heineken Cup (about 12M per annum I think). The Provinces can keep the gate money in the group stages.Same with the Regions

For home QFs in the Heineken Cup, the gate money is split between the competing teams, but wait for it, the IRFU take 50% of the provincial share of the gate (for example, Leinster home QF v Leicester a few years ago in the Aviva - Leicester got more out of it than Leinster). The ERC take the gate money for semi finals/finals.No idea with the regions

The Welsh Regions should count themselves lucky they get such an easy ride from the WRU. So the Regions get less money, don't have best players paid for with Central Contracts AND have to give up players in the same way as the Provinces AND should count themselves lucky?

WRU grant £16.8M to the Regions (and they get to keep all their gate money)
IRFU grant €20M to the provinces (have to share some of their gate money).

Not that big a difference really in the funding.

(IRFU give out very few central contracts anymore. At the moment - BOD, Heaslip, Kearney, Ross, Healy for Leinster. POC, POM, Murray, Ryan & Earls for Munster. Best, Bowe & Trimble for Ulster).

The WRU have offered to put 6 players on WRU contracts, but the Regions won't have it.

I read on a Munster thread that it used to be around 30 contracts, reducing to around 22 in 2012. Someone on the other thread just posted that it's about 20 central contracts. Can anyone confirm?

If it is 20, and let's be honest it is the top players contracted centrally not rubbish guys, then I expect they're on decent wages. Would an average central contract of around 200,000 be an appropriate estimate (with players like POC and BOD getting more and some getting less)? The same Munster forum suggested POC was on 350,000! If so, the funding may be around 4 million (200,000 x 20) - a cost that the provinces don't have to incur. Or another way of looking at it, another 4 million more than the welsh regions, who would have to incur this cost themselves out of their £16m.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:06 am

Griff wrote:

I read on a Munster thread that it used to be around 30 contracts, reducing to around 22 in 2012. Someone on the other thread just posted that it's about 20 central contracts. Can anyone confirm?

16 and falling. Currently 9 signed past the end of the season and possibly 3 re signs. Perhaps a few added. Who knows.

Discussing it on the other thread as I didn't want to fock up this one.

by Allty Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:17 am

[quote="doctornickolas"][quote="Cardiff Dave"][quote="Welshmushroom"]Oh and just to be clear as well Roger has had 20 years of top level experience. There is no one at regional level who can even remotely boast his commercial background. Instead they appointed a former "jobs for the boys" in Gallagher.

I'd rather see well educated, experienced and business minded people running the game. I dont want to see Gwyn from down the road start negotiating our commercial deals with commerical giants.[/quote]

Thanks for that. Have you not heard the name Peter Thomas, the multimillionaire?
Seen his house on the outskirts of Cardiff? Fecking huge it is. Bet it's bigger than Dodgers.

[/quote]

Is that Peter Thomas the multi-millionaire who inherited his dad's multi millionaire business and that was run by his brother and sister before they all sold up. he has done nothing on his own other than run Cardiff rfc and the Blues badly. The only commercial deal I know of him signing is the 25 year lease with no get out clause to play at CCS for a small fortune each year. That Peter Thomas you mean.[/quote]

I think that is the Peter Thomas he is talking about Very Happy

by Jenifer McLadyboy Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:24 am

I think we were very lucky on several counts in Ireland.

1/ We had tailor made provinces which had existed for a thousand years.

2/ We had representative games featuring these provinces all through the 100 and odd years of amateur rugby.

3/ Rugby was always controlled by these "branches of the IRFU" all clubs in a province have always been answerable to the "Leinster branch" "Ulster branch" etc.

3/ The decision to go with these provinces at the dawn of the Pro era was inspired.

4/ All this leaves us with a functioning pyramid structure which includes the lowliest club right up to the national team and includes the 4 provinces.

There are parallel arms controlling the pro and amateur games in each province, which allows say the Leinster team to go about the province having training sessions or events in local rugby clubs round the province which makes the clubs feel part of the gig.

by quinsforever Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:38 am

Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.

he didnt run the bbc, he ran a radio 1 music show as far as i am aware. that's hardly the top of the pile, especially when one considers what been happening to former radio 1 DJs recently.

by quinsforever Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:40 am

Mr Roger Lewis
Chair, International Advisory Board - Welsh Rugby Union
Roger Lewis is the Group Chief Executive of the Welsh Rugby Union and the Millennium Stadium, appointed in 2006.

Prior to this he was the Managing Director of ITV Wales (2004-06), Managing Director and Programme Controller of Classic FM and a Board Director of its parent company GWR plc (1998-2004), a Managing Director at EMI Records and Worldwide President of the Decca Record Company (1990-1998), Head of the BBC Radio 1 Music Department and a Producer (1985 - 1990), Producer at Capital Radio, London (1984-85) and a presenter at Radio Tees (1981 -84).
Roger studied music at the University of Nottingham, graduating in 1976 with a B.Mus (Hons). He worked as a musician between 1976 and 1980.

Over the past twenty years Roger has held a number of non-executive positions in the private, public and voluntary sectors, including that of Chair of the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic, Chair of the Ogmore Education Centre Trust, Chair of the Music and Dance Scheme at the DFES, Chair of the BPI Classical Committee, and Chair of Arts and Business Cymru, as well as Deputy Chair of Boosey and Hawkes. He has also held a number of non-executive directorships and trusteeships, including the Barchester Group, the Beacon Fellowship, Liverpool Capital of Culture and the Wales Millennium Centre. Roger was a member of the Welsh Assembly Government's Arts Funding Review Panel in 2006.

In 2010/11 he chaired the successful cross-party Yes Campaign in the referendum in Wales which granted certain law making powers to the Welsh Assembly.

Currently he sits on the Advisory board of the D Group, and is a non-executive director of the European Rugby Cup Ltd and Celtic Rugby Ltd.

Roger holds a number of honorary degrees, including doctorates from the Universities of Nottingham and Glamorgan, honorary fellowships from Cardiff University and the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama, and honorary membership of the Royal College of Music.

by quinsforever Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:43 am

seems to me he got the job on the basis of having been a serial board junkie, plus 2 years as MD of ITV Wales. fair enough, but let's not all get over-excited about his actual business acumen. he's clearly a good networker and self-promoter. is he the final word on all things welsh rugby? methinks not.

by Guest Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:45 am

quinsforever wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.
he didnt run the bbc, he ran a radio 1 music show as far as i am aware. that's hardly the top of the pile, especially when one considers what been happening to former radio 1 DJs recently.

He was interviewed about the recent scandal because he was the boss of those radio 1 dj's at the time!

by quinsforever Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:50 am

Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.

i've never said anything about peter thomas. but it's interesting to me that the same people who slate the bbc for its biased coverage of the HC debate and all things to do with english rugby, then turn to it as an endorsement for the qualifications of WRU CEO.

the reality is you don't care about the relative and relevant qualifications as you have already made clear you side with the WRU completely. whatever Roger Lewis's qualifications you would find a way to see them as backup.

to me as a neutral however, Roger Lewis characterises the worst kind of power-hungry, self-promoting ego maniac that the RFU was finally well shot of when they ditched Martyn Thomas. For him to think that he can just move pieces around on some kind of a contractual chess board is going to be a massive miscalculation. if they ditch the regions, welsh professional rugby will never recover. too much water under the bridge, and nobody would ever want to be the outside investors alongside an WRU that holds all the cards.

by quinsforever Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:51 am

Griff wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.
he didnt run the bbc, he ran a radio 1 music show as far as i am aware. that's hardly the top of the pile, especially when one considers what been happening to former radio 1 DJs recently.

He was interviewed about the recent scandal because he was the boss of those radio 1 dj's at the time!

i thought that may have been the case from the timeline of his CV.

maybe we should rename him roger teflon lewis

by Allty Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:52 am

He is an employee of the WRU and I should think he acts on behalf of the WRU board, a group of 18 including RL, Gerald Davies and Pickering.

The witch-hunt towards RL taking place on a number of Welsh Rugby forums is unjustified and foolish

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:56 am

quinsforever wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.
i've never said anything about peter thomas. but it's interesting to me that the same people who slate the bbc for its biased coverage of the HC debate and all things to do with english rugby, then turn to it as an endorsement for the qualifications of WRU CEO.

the reality is you don't care about the relative and relevant qualifications as you have already made clear you side with the WRU completely. whatever Roger Lewis's qualifications you would find a way to see them as backup.

to me as a neutral however, Roger Lewis characterises the worst kind of power-hungry, self-promoting ego maniac that the RFU was finally well shot of when they ditched Martyn Thomas. For him to think that he can just move pieces around on some kind of a contractual chess board is going to be a massive miscalculation. if they ditch the regions, welsh professional rugby will never recover. too much water under the bridge, and nobody would ever want to be the outside investors alongside an WRU that holds all the cards.

You're not really a neutral tho, quins, are you now?!?!

by Sin é Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:02 am

Griff wrote:
Sin é wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
Sin é wrote:Compare the Welsh Regions to the Irish Provinces in how they are run.

The IRFU give each of the Provinces 5M per annum The regions get 4M (big 3 anyway, Connacht has a different set-up) and the IRFU have total control of the provinces who have to develop other streams of income from ticket sales, Jersey sales, sponsorship etc. When I say control, the Ireland management can call in any player to hold tackle bags for the national squad and the provincial coaches have to deal with it. The WRU can call on the players whenever they want as well, in the current PA

The IRFU take all the money that the provinces earn from the Pro12 & the Heineken Cup (about 12M per annum I think). The Provinces can keep the gate money in the group stages.Same with the Regions

For home QFs in the Heineken Cup, the gate money is split between the competing teams, but wait for it, the IRFU take 50% of the provincial share of the gate (for example, Leinster home QF v Leicester a few years ago in the Aviva - Leicester got more out of it than Leinster). The ERC take the gate money for semi finals/finals.No idea with the regions

The Welsh Regions should count themselves lucky they get such an easy ride from the WRU. So the Regions get less money, don't have best players paid for with Central Contracts AND have to give up players in the same way as the Provinces AND should count themselves lucky?

WRU grant £16.8M to the Regions (and they get to keep all their gate money)
IRFU grant €20M to the provinces (have to share some of their gate money).

Not that big a difference really in the funding.

(IRFU give out very few central contracts anymore. At the moment - BOD, Heaslip, Kearney, Ross, Healy for Leinster. POC, POM, Murray, Ryan & Earls for Munster. Best, Bowe & Trimble for Ulster).

The WRU have offered to put 6 players on WRU contracts, but the Regions won't have it.

I read on a Munster thread that it used to be around 30 contracts, reducing to around 22 in 2012. Someone on the other thread just posted that it's about 20 central contracts. Can anyone confirm?

If it is 20, and let's be honest it is the top players contracted centrally not rubbish guys, then I expect they're on decent wages. Would an average central contract of around 200,000 be an appropriate estimate (with players like POC and BOD getting more and some getting less)? The same Munster forum suggested POC was on 350,000! If so, the funding may be around 4 million (200,000 x 20) - a cost that the provinces don't have to incur. Or another way of looking at it, another 4 million more than the welsh regions, who would have to incur this cost themselves out of their £16m.

The central contracts are worth a lot less now (all of the players had to take a reduction) including POC & BOD. I recall hearing that Luke Fitz's Central contract was reduced from 180K to 120K (then he got injured and lost it completely). Conor Murray's recent contract is believed to be work 250K. That includes image rights as well (The main sponsor O2 usually makes a couple of ads that feature the likes of POC, BOD - Murray tweeted a photo of himself making an ad over in London recently).

Now, the Welsh boys all get extra match fee money from the WRU, which the Irish boys on central contract wouldn't.

by Sin é Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:04 am

quinsforever wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.
i've never said anything about peter thomas. but it's interesting to me that the same people who slate the bbc for its biased coverage of the HC debate and all things to do with english rugby, then turn to it as an endorsement for the qualifications of WRU CEO.

the reality is you don't care about the relative and relevant qualifications as you have already made clear you side with the WRU completely. whatever Roger Lewis's qualifications you would find a way to see them as backup

to me as a neutral however, Roger Lewis characterises the worst kind of power-hungry, self-promoting ego maniac that the RFU was finally well shot of when they ditched Martyn Thomas. For him to think that he can just move pieces around on some kind of a contractual chess board is going to be a massive miscalculation. if they ditch the regions, welsh professional rugby will never recover. too much water under the bridge, and nobody would ever want to be the outside investors alongside an WRU that holds all the cards.

Quinns - did you not look at his cv. He was MD of ITV, not the BBC.

by quinsforever Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:06 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.
i've never said anything about peter thomas. but it's interesting to me that the same people who slate the bbc for its biased coverage of the HC debate and all things to do with english rugby, then turn to it as an endorsement for the qualifications of WRU CEO.

the reality is you don't care about the relative and relevant qualifications as you have already made clear you side with the WRU completely. whatever Roger Lewis's qualifications you would find a way to see them as backup.

to me as a neutral however, Roger Lewis characterises the worst kind of power-hungry, self-promoting ego maniac that the RFU was finally well shot of when they ditched Martyn Thomas. For him to think that he can just move pieces around on some kind of a contractual chess board is going to be a massive miscalculation. if they ditch the regions, welsh professional rugby will never recover. too much water under the bridge, and nobody would ever want to be the outside investors alongside an WRU that holds all the cards.

You're not really a neutral tho, quins, are you now?!?!

well i have an opinion if thats what you mean. but i dont have an inherent allegiance to either side of the welsh rugby debate. am very happy with the balance of power between union and club in england Smile

And in a fully neutral fashion, i would be very keen on seeing an expanded AP with the 4 welsh regions in Wink

by quinsforever Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:09 am

Sin é wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.
i've never said anything about peter thomas. but it's interesting to me that the same people who slate the bbc for its biased coverage of the HC debate and all things to do with english rugby, then turn to it as an endorsement for the qualifications of WRU CEO.

the reality is you don't care about the relative and relevant qualifications as you have already made clear you side with the WRU completely. whatever Roger Lewis's qualifications you would find a way to see them as backup

to me as a neutral however, Roger Lewis characterises the worst kind of power-hungry, self-promoting ego maniac that the RFU was finally well shot of when they ditched Martyn Thomas. For him to think that he can just move pieces around on some kind of a contractual chess board is going to be a massive miscalculation. if they ditch the regions, welsh professional rugby will never recover. too much water under the bridge, and nobody would ever want to be the outside investors alongside an WRU that holds all the cards.

Quinns - did you not look at his cv. He was MD of ITV WALES, not the BBC.

made that correction for you, no charge as usual. tell me, does sin e mean misquote? i pasted his whole cv just above and you cant even faithfully copy 2 consecutive words...

by Sin é Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:13 am

quinsforever wrote:
Sin é wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.
i've never said anything about peter thomas. but it's interesting to me that the same people who slate the bbc for its biased coverage of the HC debate and all things to do with english rugby, then turn to it as an endorsement for the qualifications of WRU CEO.

the reality is you don't care about the relative and relevant qualifications as you have already made clear you side with the WRU completely. whatever Roger Lewis's qualifications you would find a way to see them as backup

to me as a neutral however, Roger Lewis characterises the worst kind of power-hungry, self-promoting ego maniac that the RFU was finally well shot of when they ditched Martyn Thomas. For him to think that he can just move pieces around on some kind of a contractual chess board is going to be a massive miscalculation. if they ditch the regions, welsh professional rugby will never recover. too much water under the bridge, and nobody would ever want to be the outside investors alongside an WRU that holds all the cards.

Quinns - did you not look at his cv. He was MD of ITV WALES, not the BBC.
made that correction for you, no charge as usual. tell me, does sin e mean misquote? i pasted his whole cv just above and you cant even faithfully copy 2 consecutive words...

Only pointing out that you had got the wrong organisation completely. His last job was not working for the BBC which you seem to have something against!

quinsforever wrote:i've never said anything about peter thomas. but it's interesting to me that the same people who slate the bbc for its biased coverage of the HC debate and all things to do with english rugby, then turn to it as an endorsement for the qualifications of WRU CEO.

You'll need to explain why you posted this if you didn't think he was MD of some BBC organisation.

by quinsforever Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:18 am

if you read my posts sin e, i specifically said that he didnt run the BBC (which someone just prior had claimed) but that he worked there in radio 1 music. the bbc is where he got his big jump up.

anything else i can help you with today?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:22 am

quinsforever wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.
i've never said anything about peter thomas. but it's interesting to me that the same people who slate the bbc for its biased coverage of the HC debate and all things to do with english rugby, then turn to it as an endorsement for the qualifications of WRU CEO.

the reality is you don't care about the relative and relevant qualifications as you have already made clear you side with the WRU completely. whatever Roger Lewis's qualifications you would find a way to see them as backup.

to me as a neutral however, Roger Lewis characterises the worst kind of power-hungry, self-promoting ego maniac that the RFU was finally well shot of when they ditched Martyn Thomas. For him to think that he can just move pieces around on some kind of a contractual chess board is going to be a massive miscalculation. if they ditch the regions, welsh professional rugby will never recover. too much water under the bridge, and nobody would ever want to be the outside investors alongside an WRU that holds all the cards.

You're not really a neutral tho, quins, are you now?!?!
well i have an opinion if thats what you mean. but i dont have an inherent allegiance to either side of the welsh rugby debate. am very happy with the balance of power between union and club in england

And in a fully neutral fashion, i would be very keen on seeing an expanded AP with the 4 welsh regions in

You're about as neutral as a left-footed, left-winged and left-billed duck! Wink

by quinsforever Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:29 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.
i've never said anything about peter thomas. but it's interesting to me that the same people who slate the bbc for its biased coverage of the HC debate and all things to do with english rugby, then turn to it as an endorsement for the qualifications of WRU CEO.

the reality is you don't care about the relative and relevant qualifications as you have already made clear you side with the WRU completely. whatever Roger Lewis's qualifications you would find a way to see them as backup.

to me as a neutral however, Roger Lewis characterises the worst kind of power-hungry, self-promoting ego maniac that the RFU was finally well shot of when they ditched Martyn Thomas. For him to think that he can just move pieces around on some kind of a contractual chess board is going to be a massive miscalculation. if they ditch the regions, welsh professional rugby will never recover. too much water under the bridge, and nobody would ever want to be the outside investors alongside an WRU that holds all the cards.

You're not really a neutral tho, quins, are you now?!?!
well i have an opinion if thats what you mean. but i dont have an inherent allegiance to either side of the welsh rugby debate. am very happy with the balance of power between union and club in england

And in a fully neutral fashion, i would be very keen on seeing an expanded AP with the 4 welsh regions in

You're about as neutral as a left-footed, left-winged and left-billed duck!

i am indeed left footed and left handed, but probably more right winged than left Wink

by Sin é Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:32 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

That may have been before his time, Dave?

Before my time too mun.

More doom and gloom....

Italians are questioning;

"the Italian Rugby Federation debating whether to keep its two professional teams, Treviso and Zebre, in the tournament. Its participation agreement with the three Celtic unions runs out at the end of the season and there is deadlock over its renewal."

and the Welsh;

"The legal advice they have received is that to roll the participation agreement on would be a financially reckless decision"

"There is no meeting planned between the WRU and the regions between now and 31 December and no hint that the deadline will be extended. The four have had regular talks with Premiership Rugby about a 16-team Anglo-Welsh league, going so far as to consider whether reverting to their clubs names, Llanelli for the Scarlets, Swansea rather than Ospreys, Cardiff dropping the Blues and Newport losing the Gwent Dragons, although there would be legal issues to address and clubs with those names exist in the Welsh Premiership, a competition of potential that generates little in the way of publicity."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/19/rugby-union-wales-deadline-heineken-cup

The PRL's mouthpiece attempting to stir up Poopie again!

From a recent meeting of FIR.

Italian participation in the RaboDirect Pro12
The President gave a report about the continuation of contacts with the board of Celtic Rugby for reaching a new agreement for the Italian participation in the RaboDirect Pro12 for the years 2014-2018.

Selection for Italian quadrangular Twickenham
The Italian Rugby Federation is considering the invitation of the Society Saracens RFC (RFU) to participate January 21 at Twickenham to a quadrangular tournament with the English club and two franchises in South Africa.

by HammerofThunor Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:06 am

The 2013 IRFU annual report has the annual funding to the Provinces as over 22M euros (so probably 22M). It worked out to be about £18.5M compared to £15M.

And it doesn't matter what the Central contracts are now. Now they can be reduced because the 3 big clubs all average more than 10000 at their games and generate a lot of their own income. The IRFU gave them the resources when they didn't have this. How much did Leinster get when they weren't getting an average of 14000? That's the question because that's where the Regions were/are.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:25 am

HammerofThunor wrote:The 2013 IRFU annual report has the annual funding to the Provinces as over 22M euros (so probably 22M). It worked out to be about £18.5M compared to £15M.

Don't forget Connacht. Probably about 6M each (about 5M in funny money) for the big 3 and the balance for Connacht.

by Luckless Pedestrian Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:26 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:Pontypridd MP and ~~shadow secretary of state for Wales~~ Valleys Rugby cheerleader Owen Smith has claimed the club game in the country is in "crisis" and is "failing".

Smith said: "Our game is failing because Pontypridd RFC fans have never truly warmed to the regional concept and want a game based on Pontypridd RFC identities and the centuries of fraternal rivalry that exists between them.

"In Pontypridd fans, players and the volunteers who are the backbones of Pontypridd RFC feel totally alienated from the elite, professional game."Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/209387.html#gCYPv2R7WmMsdqJP.99

by Guest Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:35 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Pontypridd MP and ~~shadow secretary of state for Wales~~ Valleys Rugby cheerleader Owen Smith has claimed the club game in the country is in "crisis" and is "failing".

Smith said: "Our game is failing because Pontypridd RFC fans have never truly warmed to the regional concept and want a game based on Pontypridd RFC identities and the centuries of fraternal rivalry that exists between them.

"In Pontypridd fans, players and the volunteers who are the backbones of Pontypridd RFC feel totally alienated from the elite, professional game."Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/209387.html#gCYPv2R7WmMsdqJP.99

He has got a very workable plan though Luckless. Make up a region that apparently can operate on a third of the costs of the other regions.

by Luckless Pedestrian Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:50 am

I thought it was poor of BBC Wales not to mention his vested interests when they interviewed him the other night.

by Sin é Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:13 am

HammerofThunor wrote:The 2013 IRFU annual report has the annual funding to the Provinces as over 22M euros (so probably 22M). It worked out to be about £18.5M compared to £15M.

And it doesn't matter what the Central contracts are now. Now they can be reduced because the 3 big clubs all average more than 10000 at their games and generate a lot of their own income. The IRFU gave them the resources when they didn't have this. How much did Leinster get when they weren't getting an average of 14000? That's the question because that's where the Regions were/are.

And p.73 of the WRU Annual Report says that the Regions got £16,849M (20.1m euro) last year.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:27 am

quinsforever wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.
i've never said anything about peter thomas. but it's interesting to me that the same people who slate the bbc for its biased coverage of the HC debate and all things to do with english rugby, then turn to it as an endorsement for the qualifications of WRU CEO.

the reality is you don't care about the relative and relevant qualifications as you have already made clear you side with the WRU completely. whatever Roger Lewis's qualifications you would find a way to see them as backup.

to me as a neutral however, Roger Lewis characterises the worst kind of power-hungry, self-promoting ego maniac that the RFU was finally well shot of when they ditched Martyn Thomas. For him to think that he can just move pieces around on some kind of a contractual chess board is going to be a massive miscalculation. if they ditch the regions, welsh professional rugby will never recover. too much water under the bridge, and nobody would ever want to be the outside investors alongside an WRU that holds all the cards.

They still employ rob Andrew though yeah ?

by maestegmafia Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:46 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:Still a better organisation than a glorified pie shop. I know who I'd rather in charge. Besides running an organisation such as the BBC isnt something that becomes a reality for most of us. Lets be fair here to even apply for such a position in the first place would require a long list of achievements and accolades. I'm more confident of the success of a applicant for such a position than an businessman who inherited his sucess due to his parents.

If thats the template you want to follow, maybe we can get Paris Hilton to have a go. I'm sure she's looking for a new challenge.
i've never said anything about peter thomas. but it's interesting to me that the same people who slate the bbc for its biased coverage of the HC debate and all things to do with english rugby, then turn to it as an endorsement for the qualifications of WRU CEO.

the reality is you don't care about the relative and relevant qualifications as you have already made clear you side with the WRU completely. whatever Roger Lewis's qualifications you would find a way to see them as backup.

to me as a neutral however, Roger Lewis characterises the worst kind of power-hungry, self-promoting ego maniac that the RFU was finally well shot of when they ditched Martyn Thomas. For him to think that he can just move pieces around on some kind of a contractual chess board is going to be a massive miscalculation. if they ditch the regions, welsh professional rugby will never recover. too much water under the bridge, and nobody would ever want to be the outside investors alongside an WRU that holds all the cards.

They still employ rob Andrew though yeah ?

It's that prat McCafferty that's causing more problems than Rob Andrew.

by **Notch** Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:34 pm

You've got to love this place. Roger Lewis is a 'controlling egomaniac' because he won't bail out the regions with union funding without strings attached.

The regions are failing as businesses. The Union can rescue them, but why should they do that without getting something back? Right now the regions are working directly against the interests of welsh rugby and against the Pro12 and they expect the WRU to hand over the cash. They are selling off the crown jewels to keep themselves afloat. They can't get the crowds through the doors. Is it really so hard to see what has to be done? Buy them out. The people running things at the regions are not competent at their jobs. They need to be seriously rebuilt from the bottom up.

by Sponsored content