England *EPS 2014* and 6N Squad

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EPS

Forwards (17)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints) Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) David Wilson (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (16)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Ben Foden (Northampton Saints) Alex Goode (Saracens) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Christian Wade (London Wasps) Marland Yarde (London Irish) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England RBS 6 Nations squad (35)

Forwards (18)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Matt Mullan (London Wasps) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers) Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) Rob Webber (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (17)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Alex Goode (Saracens) Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby) Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints) Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby) Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England Saxons squad:
Forwards (17): C Clark (Northampton), J Crane (Leicester), P Doran Jones (Harlequins), W Fraser (Saracens), J Haskell (Wasps), T Johnson (Exeter), G Kitchener (Leicester), G Kruis (Saracens), K Myall (Wasps), D Paice (London Irish), G Robson (Harlequins), E Slater (Leicester), H Thomas (Sale), T Waldrom (Leicester), L Wallace (Harlequins), R Webber (Bath), N Wood (Gloucester).

Backs (15): A Allen (Leicester), L Burrell (Northampton), E Daly (Wasps), G Ford (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), J May (Gloucester), U Monye (Harlequins), S Myler (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter), C Sharples (Gloucester), J Simpson (Wasps), D Strettle (Saracens), M Tait (Leicester), J Tomkins (Saracens), R Wigglesworth (Saracens).

GeordieFalcon wrote:Thats the critical part Sarge...Englands currently tactics dont suit Ashton. This is where one of my big issues is with Lancaster and his selection policies.

Surely he must select players that are going to suit the style he wants to play...even though its barely more entertaining than watching the Falcons play  

I agree with this but... realistically which wingers fit in with the England game plan?

The tactics in the backs seem to just involve giving it to Manu and then hoping he has sucked in a few defenders leaving spaces elsewhere. While I would love to see Yarde and Wade get game time, part of me thinks that they will end up not really getting the ball and end up losing confidence etc. The national team has a habit of taking promising young players and then spitting them out, setting them back a season or so. Its taken Tait years to recover!

I missed the game, but heard about one terrible attempted tackle on Gear, anyone got a link or will it be in the highlights?

Cumbrian wrote:'Wingers' in the 6N Squad:

Chris Ashton
Jonny May
Anthony Watson
Jack Nowell

From that list only May is a left winger. You'd imagine he'd start although we still have the option of Foden. We could still see...

11. Foden (hopefully May will start here)
15. Brown
14. Ashton

It doesnt matter though does it...they can still bring players up...just not for the full training weeks...or they could simply opt to replace Tuilagi with Strettle etc? There are options.

But if we're just going on the squad players...then i guess it'll be May and Ashton on the wings.

I don't think they'd bring Strettle up after making the point of not including him. Strettle himself has stated he's been dropped.

Ah right...wasnt aware of that.

Well its irrlevant who plays anyway...as they wont get many chances...better have their long johns on... 

Falcons school of wing play

Might as well play a FB on the wing

I thought Foden was out too

I think your right Foden is out im sure...

Foden is out

Yep Watson is an injury replacement for Foden in the EPS.

Come on guys, this is the time of year to be optimistic. There is youth in the squad, exciting young players!!

The time to get depressed is when the first team is announced!

As long as the team doesn't have Goode and Brown in tandem and a real backrow, I'm happyish

I know i joke on...but on a serious note..it really is irrelevant who plays if we continue with the current tactics...Farrell standing deep etc...

backrow will be (baring an act of God) Wood, Robshaw and Vunipola. I'm happy with that! I heard good things about B Vunipola putting himself about in the loss to Toulouse, I think he's really improved and Sarries has been a good move for him, sorry Wasps fans!

little_badger wrote:Yep Watson is an injury replacement for Foden in the EPS.

Come on guys, this is the time of year to be optimistic. There is youth in the squad, exciting young players!!

The time to get depressed is when the first team is announced!

  

It's times like this I wish we could be more like the v2 Welsh fans.

"We're world beaters (on our day) and if the Ref doesn't rob us etc etc...."

Yeah, cos English fans NEVER blame the ref....

munkian wrote:Yeah, cos English fans NEVER blame the ref....

Glass houses etc...

Lets all just keep calm.

We all blame the Ref from time to time (some of us more than others though!)
I think they do a great job btw.

So starting the first 6n game is going to be?

1 Marler / Mako (Too close to call)
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Launchbury
5 Lawes
6 Wood
7 Robshaw (C)
8 Vunipola

9 Youngs
10 Farrell
11 May
12 Barritt
13 Twelvetree
14 Ashton
15 Brown

GeordieFalcon wrote:So starting the first 6n game is going to be?

1 Marler / Mako (Too close to call)
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Launchbury
5 Lawes
6 Wood
7 Robshaw (C)
8 Vunipola

9 Youngs
10 Farrell
11 May
12 Barritt
13 Twelvetree
14 Ashton
15 Brown

Can't argue with that as thats what I came up with.

GeordieFalcon wrote:So starting the first 6n game is going to be?

1 Marler / Mako (Too close to call)
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Launchbury
5 Lawes
6 Wood
7 Robshaw (C)
8 Vunipola

9 Youngs
10 Farrell
11 May
12 Barritt
13 Twelvetree
14 Ashton
15 Brown

I would take that as an adventurous Stewie side, and a bit of a moral (or is that morale) victory for us English fans. Don't discount the possibility that he'll go for a Ashton/Goode/Brown back 3.

I bet it will be Burrell /36 in some combo in the centers with Barritt on the bench. Not going to bet that much but...

I also think there is an outside chance that it will be Watson not May. I am not convinced that SL rates May. Performances in training could be significant.

GeordieFalcon wrote:So starting the first 6n game is going to be?

1 Marler / Mako (Too close to call)
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Launchbury
5 Lawes
6 Wood
7 Robshaw (C)
8 Vunipola

Think it will be Mako to start and Marler on the bench due to his superior carrying ability otherwise Billy V is going to have to be everywhere. With Tom Youngs & Morgan expected to be on the bench we have carrying options there, just think it gives a better balance. Just hope that Mako holds up in the scrum against Mas (assuming he's selected) as I think Marler is slightly stronger in the set piece at this time.

Lawes & Hartley will also have to step up in terms of carrying as well. Robshaw, Wood & Launchbury are willing but generally not massively effective and Cole is a pilfering TH prop as opposed to a wrecking ball (and I'm good with that ).

Barney McGrew did it wrote:
Don't discount the possibility that he'll go for a Ashton/Goode/Brown back 3.

You could colour me amazed if that doesnt happen given the injuries and Lancasters comments re: group of players to carry us forward and others training for experience.

May, Nowell Watson and Birds eye custard werent in his first 3 wingers and he never picks more than one specialist wing.
One of the kids may get on the bench through versatility.

That back 3 will be enough to lose me as a SL supporter

2 weeks of arguing the toss and welsh baiting til we find out!

None of the kids are specialist wingers though, all are WG/FBs, 2/3 are predominantly FBs playing wing at the moment

Some good news is that Nigel Owens and not Alain Rolland will be looking after the France vs England game.

The bad news is that Alain is one of the assistant refs.


Poor Wales get Alain in round 3.

We avoid Steve Walsh too.

http://www.therugbyblog.com/six-nations-2014-referees-confirmed

Do we not think Dickson could still start ahead of Youngs?

Agree with others that if Goode and Brown both start i'll be fecked off!

beshocked wrote:Some good news is that Nigel Owens and not Alain Rolland will be looking after the France vs England game.

The bad news is that Alain is one of the assistant refs.


Poor Wales get Alain in round 3.

We avoid Steve Walsh too.

http://www.therugbyblog.com/six-nations-2014-referees-confirmed

Rolland has been terrible for a while now and seems happy to get worse and worse. He's also one of the most meddling AR's out there as well so i'm sure he'll stick his nose in a few times!

Nigel Owens is usually quality at least and good for a couple of funny comments a game.

yappysnap wrote:Do we not think Dickson could still start ahead of Youngs?

Agree with  others that if Goode and Brown both start i'll be fecked off!

For Englands sake I would hope Dickson doesn't start. Looks out of his depth in test rugby IMO. Difficult to know who is playing well in club rugby from my own point of view but Youngs for me is the best 9 England has... needs to take the ball at pace though.

When he first started out he was chomping at heels of the opposition, darting in and out and causing havoc.... been a bit quiet for England of late.

How has Webber been playing for Bath? Not trying to start another thread but surely they can't keep faith with Youngs at 2 for long. He lost the game for England vs. NZ almost single handedly... one of the worst cameo's in memory. Until he improves his key skills all his apparent around the field play is worthless.

One off is ok but its become a habit. Can't hook, can't throw, lightweight in the scrum and gets turned over a lot.

Its like watching Lee Mears career nightmare again and again.

Fa, Youngs has been very quiet for England...but hes always either carrying an injury or just getting over one and not fit.

Are we missing Steve Walsh altogether? Hallelulujlia..... He's the worst referre in the world and shouldnt be allowed to referee a school boy game let alone any top level internationals.

Fa i rate Tom Youngs way more than Mears.

He's might lack height...but he's a bruiser. His lineout throwing is getting better...its just unfortunate that in the AI's Hartley finally seemed to transform his amazing Norhampton form to the international scene...and if he can keep that up consistantly....he's can be one of the best hookers in the world simple as that. But we need to see the same levels in the 6n games....big ask for hartley.

Lots of respect for Hartley for me. Old school bruiser but his core skills are exceptional. Really gets around the park too. Gets involved a lot off the ball but thats what you want hookers to do... they have to be a bit mad to play the position in the first place.... Moore, Kearns, Dalton, Thompson, Hore, Bismarck... they're all nuts.

But SL often brings on most of his subs.... no doubt Youngs will get game time. Always been one for core skills first. No point lauding someone for their rucking skills when they make the key possession retention skill (lineouts) something to be avoided. He almost lost the AUS match due to his throwing, he lost the NZ match due to his throwing, we could go on from there to the car crash event that happened in cardiff all those months ago. Lion or not he's a liability at the moment (yet talented if he gets it right I agree).

GeordieFalcon wrote:...its just unfortunate that in the AI's Hartley finally seemed to transform his amazing Norhampton form to the international scene...

I know you were speaking from Youngs' perspective, but I take issue with the word in bold. From an England point of view it's brilliant news that Hartley seems to have clicked at international level. Obviously some fans will always think he's a tool, but he's a wonderful player when on form.

He is a tool, but he's our tool!!!

Great to have 2 options, if Youngs can fix his throwing then he will be a brilliant impact player with that rucking and carrying

That's forgetting Webber, who looks a real physical unit and should also be right in the mix

I'd take Mako every time over Marler, he's superior at everything imo.

Be great to see Burrell in there, he's came on so much this season. His offloading game was superb at the weekend.

Id expect (not want) to see:

1 Marler / Mako
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Launchbury
5 Lawes
6 Wood
7 Robshaw (C)
8 Vunipola

9 Dickson
10 Farrell
11 Brown
12 Barritt
13 Twelvetrees
14 Ashton
15 Goode


Youngs Ford and a utility kid as impact subs.

Its pretty inevitable the game plan will be :
Hit them physically early and look to play a tight game. Get the crowd bored and restless, go for a penalty game and kick. Get the French bored then open up later if its gone horribly wrong.
Lancaster will want the players he trusts on the pitch. Hes fairly conservative for a radical.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Id expect (not want) to see:

1 Marler / Mako
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Launchbury
5 Lawes
6 Wood
7 Robshaw (C)
8 Vunipola

9 Dickson - Youngs / Care
10 Farrell - Burns / Cipriani / Ford
11 Brown - May / Varndell
12 Barritt - Twelvetrees / Burrell / Eastmond
13 Twelvetrees - Burrell / Trinder / Eastmond
14 Ashton - Watson / Nowell / Eastmond
15 Goode - Brown / Watson / May

Youngs Ford and a utility kid as impact subs.

Its pretty inevitable the game plan will be :
Hit them physically early and look to play a tight game. Get the crowd bored and restless, go for a penalty game and kick. Get the French bored then open up later if its gone horribly wrong.  
Lancaster will want the players he trusts on the pitch. Hes fairly conservative for a radical.

White orcs on steriods...........GO BOMBER GO........back to Leeds

yappysnap wrote:

beshocked wrote:Some good news is that Nigel Owens and not Alain Rolland will be looking after the France vs England game.

The bad news is that Alain is one of the assistant refs.


Poor Wales get Alain in round 3.

We avoid Steve Walsh too.

http://www.therugbyblog.com/six-nations-2014-referees-confirmed

Rolland has been terrible for a while now and seems happy to get worse and worse. He's also one of the most meddling AR's out there as well so i'm sure he'll stick his nose in a few times!

Nigel Owens is usually quality at least and good for a couple of funny comments a game.

Even better, Romain Poite has the Wales-England game. For my money, he's the best ref around at the moment - not swayed by the crowd consistently makes sharp judgement calls (that are shown to be right on replay) and most importantly he knows what a scrum looks like. Walsh is one of the ARs, but he can only do limited harm from there.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Again, Yappy i accept that despite seemingly having been around forever he is still young...and yes (ill go further) no back has really looked good under lancasters regime...however my point still stands...hes yet to really set the world alight, like most of us think he could.

I'll put Care in that bracket aswell Yappy...in any other country in the world Care would be hailed as a revelation we'd be screaming oh for a SH like him a playmaking 9 in the french mould...etc etc. Well we have one and ....ppft we waste it...

Even more ludicrous is the thought that Care is a big part of Quins creativty ...and when England have a ten with barely any, should we not be utilising this...!!!

I want to see huge improvments in the back play this 6n...or ill be asking for Lancs head now...personally this is the time we need to see where he's taking this England team...and he's had long enough now.  

Agree wholeheartedly with the above Geordie. Whilst Bomber has no doubt built a strong pack and efficient defence the attack is woefully predictable for a side with the options we have available.

Similar to the problems with the back row vs Wales in the 6N last year it comes down to balance though I think. If we have a pack containing guys like Cole, Launchbury, Wood and Robshaw (amongst others) with huge work rates in groundwork and defence then we can afford to mix things up in the backs a give players a go to offer something in attack.

Haven't been on here in a while so to summarise my thoughts on the 6N squad - I thought the pack picked itself (though would have likes to see Haskell, Fearns or Garvey in there) but in the backs I felt the selection of 4 inside centres and no outside centres was a mistake given our struggles in that area. Trinders injury makes it even more infuriating that Daly is playing 15 at Wasps! Was happy with selections in the back 3 though.

9.Care - If fit
10.Farrell
11.May
12.Eastmond or Burrell
13.Twelvetrees
14.Nowell or Watson
15.Brown

No chance of seeing it I fear, but would love to see something such as the above in the first 6N game.

Is Glenn Jackson an int ref yet?

king_carlos wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Again, Yappy i accept that despite seemingly having been around forever he is still young...and yes (ill go further) no back has really looked good under lancasters regime...however my point still stands...hes yet to really set the world alight, like most of us think he could.

I'll put Care in that bracket aswell Yappy...in any other country in the world Care would be hailed as a revelation we'd be screaming oh for a SH like him a playmaking 9 in the french mould...etc etc. Well we have one and ....ppft we waste it...

Even more ludicrous is the thought that Care is a big part of Quins creativty ...and when England have a ten with barely any, should we not be utilising this...!!!

I want to see huge improvments in the back play this 6n...or ill be asking for Lancs head now...personally this is the time we need to see where he's taking this England team...and he's had long enough now.  

Agree wholeheartedly with the above Geordie. Whilst Bomber has no doubt built a strong pack and efficient defence the attack is woefully predictable for a side with the options we have available.

So really we have to thank Rowntree for an awesome pack and Farrell for the defense. If only Catt could manage something with those 'attack skills' coaching sessions!

thomh wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:...its just unfortunate that in the AI's Hartley finally seemed to transform his amazing Norhampton form to the international scene...

I know you were speaking from Youngs' perspective, but I take issue with the word in bold. From an England point of view it's brilliant news that Hartley seems to have clicked at international level. Obviously some fans will always think he's a tool, but he's a wonderful player when on form.

Sorry Thomh, I didn't make that clear...that was unfortunate from Tom Youngs point of view...
I think even Hartleys biggest critic for his discipline issues etc would agree that for Saints he never or very rarely has a bad game...the guy is simply immense...but for a long time now we have become unhappy with his performances for England and his inability to take those Saints performances to the next level with England.

In the Ai's we finally saw those performances. He was everywhere...physical in the close , huge in the scrum, hit the lineout perfectly, carried with pace and purpose (at gaps as well not just collisions)...tackled ferociously....it was like he had finally made it. Having him like that is a MASSIVE boost to England.
The big thing for him now though is to see him carry that form through the 6n and show the consistent level of excellence that he shows for Saints.

yappysnap wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Again, Yappy i accept that despite seemingly having been around forever he is still young...and yes (ill go further) no back has really looked good under lancasters regime...however my point still stands...hes yet to really set the world alight, like most of us think he could.

I'll put Care in that bracket aswell Yappy...in any other country in the world Care would be hailed as a revelation we'd be screaming oh for a SH like him a playmaking 9 in the french mould...etc etc. Well we have one and ....ppft we waste it...

Even more ludicrous is the thought that Care is a big part of Quins creativty ...and when England have a ten with barely any, should we not be utilising this...!!!

I want to see huge improvments in the back play this 6n...or ill be asking for Lancs head now...personally this is the time we need to see where he's taking this England team...and he's had long enough now.  

Agree wholeheartedly with the above Geordie. Whilst Bomber has no doubt built a strong pack and efficient defence the attack is woefully predictable for a side with the options we have available.

So really we have to thank Rowntree for an awesome pack and Farrell for the defense. If only Catt could manage something with those 'attack skills' coaching sessions!

Yappy, I think we all know Rowntree has been doing a very good job. Likewise I guess Farrell is doing his job with the defence...and indeed we should praise Lancaster for overseeing all this but the question still begs...who on earth is working on attacking play.

We have been critical of players like Ashton and Farrell...yet for their clubs they are playing well ...creating or scoring tries - prompting Beshocked to rightfully defend them. This suggest the tactics are restricting these players....and again we need to ask WHY?

What is going on there...?

king_carlos wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Again, Yappy i accept that despite seemingly having been around forever he is still young...and yes (ill go further) no back has really looked good under lancasters regime...however my point still stands...hes yet to really set the world alight, like most of us think he could.

I'll put Care in that bracket aswell Yappy...in any other country in the world Care would be hailed as a revelation we'd be screaming oh for a SH like him a playmaking 9 in the french mould...etc etc. Well we have one and ....ppft we waste it...

Even more ludicrous is the thought that Care is a big part of Quins creativty ...and when England have a ten with barely any, should we not be utilising this...!!!

I want to see huge improvments in the back play this 6n...or ill be asking for Lancs head now...personally this is the time we need to see where he's taking this England team...and he's had long enough now.  

Agree wholeheartedly with the above Geordie. Whilst Bomber has no doubt built a strong pack and efficient defence the attack is woefully predictable for a side with the options we have available.

Similar to the problems with the back row vs Wales in the 6N last year it comes down to balance though I think. If we have a pack containing guys like Cole, Launchbury, Wood and Robshaw (amongst others) with huge work rates in groundwork and defence then we can afford to mix things up in the backs a give players a go to offer something in attack.

Haven't been on here in a while so to summarise my thoughts on the 6N squad - I thought the pack picked itself (though would have likes to see Haskell, Fearns or Garvey in there) but in the backs I felt the selection of 4 inside centres and no outside centres was a mistake given our struggles in that area. Trinders injury makes it even more infuriating that Daly is playing 15 at Wasps! Was happy with selections in the back 3 though.

9.Care - If fit
10.Farrell
11.May
12.Eastmond or Burrell
13.Twelvetrees
14.Nowell or Watson
15.Brown

No chance of seeing it I fear, but would love to see something such as the above in the first 6N game.

Yeah and the Aussies keep banging on about how Cipriani would have 50 caps by now, right before they drop Cooper for the 50th time.

Id just like to see Farrell play a bit more flatter...and attack the gain line...put pressure on the opposition defence...and with Eastmond or Twelvetrees at 12 making the plays...with Mako Hartley and Billy crashing through..

This would then open up the lines Ashton loves to run...and that May is very capable of playing...add in Brown to that and suddenly it becomes very interesting...especially when you add in the marauding mobility and breakdown ability of Launchbury, Robshaw and Wood supporting should it breakdown

Its not rocket science...so why on earth aren't we doing it.