England *EPS 2014* and 6N Squad

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EPS

Forwards (17)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints) Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) David Wilson (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (16)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Ben Foden (Northampton Saints) Alex Goode (Saracens) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Christian Wade (London Wasps) Marland Yarde (London Irish) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England RBS 6 Nations squad (35)

Forwards (18)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Matt Mullan (London Wasps) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers) Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) Rob Webber (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (17)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Alex Goode (Saracens) Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby) Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints) Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby) Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England Saxons squad:
Forwards (17): C Clark (Northampton), J Crane (Leicester), P Doran Jones (Harlequins), W Fraser (Saracens), J Haskell (Wasps), T Johnson (Exeter), G Kitchener (Leicester), G Kruis (Saracens), K Myall (Wasps), D Paice (London Irish), G Robson (Harlequins), E Slater (Leicester), H Thomas (Sale), T Waldrom (Leicester), L Wallace (Harlequins), R Webber (Bath), N Wood (Gloucester).

Backs (15): A Allen (Leicester), L Burrell (Northampton), E Daly (Wasps), G Ford (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), J May (Gloucester), U Monye (Harlequins), S Myler (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter), C Sharples (Gloucester), J Simpson (Wasps), D Strettle (Saracens), M Tait (Leicester), J Tomkins (Saracens), R Wigglesworth (Saracens).

GeordieFalcon wrote:Id just like to see Farrell play a bit more flatter...and attack the gain line...put pressure on the opposition defence...and with Eastmond or Twelvetrees at 12 making the plays...with Mako Hartley and Billy crashing through..

This would then open up the lines Ashton loves to run...and that May is very capable of playing...add in Brown to that and suddenly it becomes very interesting...especially when you add in the marauding mobility and breakdown ability of Launchbury, Robshaw and Wood supporting should it breakdown

Its not rocket science...so why on earth aren't we doing it.

Have we really had a settled side yet though? i think they have been trying players out and then they'll work more on improving the game plan. Pointless spending loads of time on players if your unsure if they'll feature in the future.

Having said all that, i do wish we'd show more attacking spirit. Also regarding you asking for Lancasters head, it won't happen. Simple, it would be stupid this close to a world cup.

No your right I don't want Lancaster out yet...that's excessive and im just overreacting......but I do want to see more now .

And in general the backline has been...

9 Youngs
10 Farrell
11
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15

Only really 11 and 15 have been uncertain.

Lancaster's head is secure - what alternative is there 18 months from RWC - but if England do worse than last year and have a mare in NZ then RWC looks to be beyond him as he will be heading in the wrong direction.

England have become a very difficult team to play against...and have built the knack of winning games...that's a huge thing to have.

Im just concerned that against the big teams in the important games is that going to be enough...

yappysnap wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Again, Yappy i accept that despite seemingly having been around forever he is still young...and yes (ill go further) no back has really looked good under lancasters regime...however my point still stands...hes yet to really set the world alight, like most of us think he could.

I'll put Care in that bracket aswell Yappy...in any other country in the world Care would be hailed as a revelation we'd be screaming oh for a SH like him a playmaking 9 in the french mould...etc etc. Well we have one and ....ppft we waste it...

Even more ludicrous is the thought that Care is a big part of Quins creativty ...and when England have a ten with barely any, should we not be utilising this...!!!

I want to see huge improvments in the back play this 6n...or ill be asking for Lancs head now...personally this is the time we need to see where he's taking this England team...and he's had long enough now.  

Agree wholeheartedly with the above Geordie. Whilst Bomber has no doubt built a strong pack and efficient defence the attack is woefully predictable for a side with the options we have available.

So really we have to thank Rowntree for an awesome pack and Farrell for the defense. If only Catt could manage something with those 'attack skills' coaching sessions!

  In fairness to Lancaster when he first came in his biggest challenge was 'changing the culture' (apologies as I usually hate that phrase in sport!) within the team. He came in with a very young and inexperienced group of players at his disposal and has instilled in them massive determination, a winning attitude and real ability to fight for games when needed.

Problem is that for us to progress from where we our now I feel we will need to add a lot more precision and finesse in attack to what we've already got. If Bomber and his three musketeers can start showing they are capable of that we could have a really strong side on our hands. If not we could really stagnate and start to waste some of the talent being shown by players such as Yarde, Wade, May, Nowell, Daly and Watson coming through in the outside backs.

GeordieFalcon wrote:No your right I don't want Lancaster out yet...that's excessive and im just overreacting......but I do want to see more now .

And in general the backline has been...

9 Youngs
10 Farrell
11
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15

Only really 11 and 15 have been uncertain.

I'd take Youngs out of that. You'd say he's been Lancaster's first choice overall, but all three scrum halves have been given plenty of chances to prove themselves without injuries forcing his hand.

It would be interesting to see the stats on which SH has played the most...started the most etc under Lancasters reign. Im pretty sure Youngs would have the most starts of the SH's..

I just wish one of the SH would make the shirt their own, all too often one of them has a good game followed by a poor one, its almost like they don't want it enough.

Scrumpy wrote:I just wish one of the SH would make the shirt their own, all too often one of them has a good game followed by a poor one, its almost like they don't want it enough.

I know what you mean about consistency, but I doubt it is a lack of desire. Although I have no idea what the problem actually is. It is bloody frustrating to watch.

GeordieFalcon wrote:It would be interesting to see the stats on which SH has played the most...started the most etc under Lancasters reign. Im pretty sure Youngs would have the most starts of the SH's..

Wasn't arguing that, just saying that like 11 and 15 it has been uncertain. Lancaster has dropped Youngs more than once.

Or when they do get their chance, they know they need to make an impact to stay, so try too hard. Trying too hard to do something can ruin your game just as much as not trying enough

ChequeredJersey wrote:Or when they do get their chance, they know they need to make an impact to stay, so try too hard. Trying too hard to do something can ruin your game just as much as not trying enough

But these guys are Pro players and have been around long enough to know what to do by now.

I used to think it was really great having two SHs (Care and Youngs) fighting each other for the England shirt etc. But now I am almost a bit exasperated and wish one of them would just nail down the shirt and give us some continuity.

At the start of the season Dickson was playing well and gave Saints good quick ball. However, he still just gets on my nerves and I don't think he'll ever be a world-class scrum-half. I really dislike the way he flaps at the ref.

GeordieFalcon wrote:No your right I don't want Lancaster out yet...that's excessive and im just overreacting......but I do want to see more now .

And in general the backline has been...

9 Youngs
10 Farrell
11
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15

Only really 11 and 15 have been uncertain.

Id disagree on Youngs. Lancaster has never settled on a first choice scrum half.
Ashtons place was arguably only saved by injuries to others when they were supposed to get capped, still the case now ...hes only secure in the absence of the two wingers who would most likely take his place.
Brown is pretty secure in the team, although flip flops between wing and fullback but he is seen as the top performer in the backs.

Obviously the injuries in the centers have provoked a great deal of uncertainty now, and players could grab their chances especially Twelvetrees

The pack is pretty settled, the backs arent.

Thank god you can still win games with a decent Pack!

Easier said than done.

Youngs is our best SH imo but doesn't work too well with Farrell. His game is based around testing the fringes and allowing his FH time and opportunity to attack.

Farrell sits so deep and rarely threatens the line so Youngs needs to adapt which isn't natural to him.

I'd personally persist with Youngs with Care as impact. Get shot of Dickson who's nowhere near Int class and develop Robson over next few years.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Easier said than done.

Youngs is our best SH imo but doesn't work too well with Farrell. His game is based around testing the fringes and allowing his FH time and opportunity to attack.

Farrell sits so deep and rarely threatens the line so Youngs needs to adapt which isn't natural to him.

I'd personally persist with Youngs with Care as impact. Get shot of Dickson who's nowhere near Int class and develop Robson over next few years.  

Def agree with that, Youngs is still our best SH but he's not yet adapted his game well enough OR made himself such a key component that the FH is changed to suit him. Lancs is a FH sort of guy and I feel prefers a SH in the mould of Stringer. In fact I think he'd be his ideal scrum half.

Youngs' varying form hasn't helped, after his games on tour in South Africa I thought he'd finally arrived as one of the world's best but he's failed to hit those heights again. We'd see a much better Youngs were he paired with Burns or Ford. The only issue I can foresee is his variation in running and passing from the base, sometimes that will encroach on either of those two's tendency to run.

Its great news for england and Youngs that Burns has signed for Tigers. if those 2 can click they may well become the starting half back combo that can kick englands attacking game along. Many of englands best performances came with Youngs and Flood playing together, they knew each others game and they complimented each other well. This also gave Ashton plenty of running lines to pick from and was when he played his best in an england shirt.

Robson is another player worth keeping an eye on, he's been looking very good for Glos. I'd give him another season after this one before he gets close to the EPS but its nice knowing theres another option coming through.

belovedfrosties wrote:Its great news for england and Youngs that Burns has signed for Tigers.  if those 2 can click they may well become the starting half back combo that can kick englands attacking game along.  Many of englands best performances came with Youngs and Flood playing together, they knew each others game and they complimented each other well.  This also gave Ashton plenty of running lines to pick from and was when he played his best in an england shirt.

Robson is another player worth keeping an eye on, he's been looking very good for Glos.  I'd give him another season after this one before he gets close to the EPS but its nice knowing theres another option coming through.

has it been confirmed?

nathan wrote:

belovedfrosties wrote:Its great news for england and Youngs that Burns has signed for Tigers.  if those 2 can click they may well become the starting half back combo that can kick englands attacking game along.  Many of englands best performances came with Youngs and Flood playing together, they knew each others game and they complimented each other well.  This also gave Ashton plenty of running lines to pick from and was when he played his best in an england shirt.

Robson is another player worth keeping an eye on, he's been looking very good for Glos.  I'd give him another season after this one before he gets close to the EPS but its nice knowing theres another option coming through.

has it been confirmed?

Not confirmed yet Nathan. All the signs are there though and increasing by the day it seems with the latest being Cockers stating in an interview that "Burns would be a good fit at Welford Road".

DT reporting that Marlon Yarde is recovering more quickly than expected & is back running. he should get a couple of games in for LI before the last 2 games of the 6Ns. so he is targeting the Wales game for a start.
Would love to see him start with Watson (as Wade won't be available) at some stage.

That's good news. If we are performing well up to then, would you start him over the incumbent wingers?

I'm inclined to say no, unless the back 3 hasn't shown anything at all and we are winning purely on the strength of our forwards

Just so long as he is totally completely fit..and match fit...no point rushing him back if he's not, just for two games at the end...

Besides we'll have had 3 games by then and will know whether our wings are even being used or not...

I think he'll have to show some form too.

Absolutely...

Could be a very different backline for Wales then with Tuilagi likely to be available as well.

Is he really Peter?

Lets not rush these guys back into International rugby, give them time.

Lets think long term.

Agreed re not rushing!!

Interesting article on the rugby paper about SL's recent press conference and him saying about the attacking strategy of runners on the shoulder and getting the new players up to speed with the systems.

Now he talks a good game so let's see some of that attacking strategy!!!

little_badger wrote:Agreed re not rushing!!

Interesting article on the rugby paper about SL's recent press conference and him saying about the attacking strategy of runners on the shoulder and getting the new players up to speed with the systems.

Now he talks a good game so let's see some of that attacking strategy!!!

Wow - news just in - they have a strategy!

Didn't we hear that before the last 6 Nations ?

5 tries to England - 4 of those at home against Scotland and 1 against France - and that was with Manu playing.

Bar the NZ game last year, which showed an over reliance on Tuilagi breaking the line...and a few brief glimpses in a couple of other games, i havent seen a huge amount of attacking purpose mind.

I hope im firmly put in my place this 6n...as i do think Lancs and his team have done a good job in other areas of the team.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Bar the NZ game last year, which showed an over reliance on Tuilagi breaking the line...and a few brief glimpses in a couple of other games, i havent seen a huge amount of attacking purpose mind.

I hope im firmly put in my place this 6n...as i do think Lancs and his team have done a good job in other areas of the team.

I agree - your break down is much better (when you have the right players) and your lineout has improved (when Hartley throws)

Attacking wise.... not great - Italy outscored you 1 try to 0 at Twickenham. Wales got 9 to your 5 tries in the tournament and that was with 3 games away

munkian wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Bar the NZ game last year, which showed an over reliance on Tuilagi breaking the line...and a few brief glimpses in a couple of other games, i havent seen a huge amount of attacking purpose mind.

I hope im firmly put in my place this 6n...as i do think Lancs and his team have done a good job in other areas of the team.

I agree - your break down is much better (when you have the right players) and your lineout has improved (when Hartley throws)

Attacking wise.... not great - Italy outscored you 1 try to 0 at Twickenham. Wales got 9 to your 5 tries in the tournament and that was with 3 games away

I think that describing it as "not great" could be considered a kindness. I can only hope that changes in the coaching have been made, and that as we are mostly satisfied with our forward play more attention has been given to what we do with the ball once we've secured it.

Yes but Munkian dont forget the manshaming Wales gave us at the end...how many tries did they score?

I dont think it'll be so big a gap this time round mind...think Lancaster was quite naive with his selection that day...regardless of injuries...

We (Cuthbert) got 2 against you but they were all created by our back row I think - a steal off the floor and a run and dummy by Tipuric and a great break by Warbs which ended up in Cuthberts hands.

And yes, I think it will be a much closer game.

i don't think it will be close at all.



warburton and gatland will do their usual pre-match chat about how wales are the best team in europe.

and SL will remind whoever he picks that this is an exact dress rehearsal to the group of death in RWC2015 at HQ and to treat it with that level of intensity.

and as i said, not that close at all.

Let's see where both teams are by that point

we will only know where they are at that point after the final whistle. and even then that wont tell us much other than the score.

quinsforever wrote:i don't think it will be close at all.



warburton and gatland will do their usual pre-match chat about how wales are the best team in europe.

and SL will remind whoever he picks that this is an exact dress rehearsal to the group of death in RWC2015 at HQ and to treat it with that level of intensity.

and as i said, not that close at all.

Arrogance bordering on the obtuse.

Hilarious that you are slating Gats/Warbs for pre match chat yet all you are engaged in here is the same pre match dick waving

And like it or not ours is bigger than yours , best team in europe, tick, 9/10 wins in 6 nations since 2012, tick, beaten England twice in last 2 comps, tick, 10 winning Lions, tick, beaten England away in 2012, tick, successfully defended the Championship by murdering England, tick.

While you talk about the intensity Enland will bring, don't kid yourself that Wales will just roll over

my dick waving or yours doesnt have any impact on motivating the opposition. warbs and gatland's does and did.

would be arrogant if lancaster expressed this view, from a fan it's just an opinion.

england are the best team in europe. you can see it on the irb rankings.

quinsforever wrote:my dick waving or yours doesnt have any impact on motivating the opposition. warbs and gatland's does and did.

would be arrogant if lancaster expressed this view, from a fan it's just an opinion.

england are the best team in europe. you can see it on the irb rankings.

by quinsforever Today at 9:43 am

why would the 5N not be relevant? has the addition of italy really changed that much about finishing order apart from padding the wooden spoon slot most years?

don't be a pedant.

04-05 grandslam!
05-06 5th out of 6, including a draw with italy
06-07 5th out of 6, avoiding bottom spot on points difference, including a loss to italy
07-08 grandslam!

is this a basis for predicting 3 in a row, or, instead, more empirical evidence in favour of a fall from grace?

everyone can see what they want from statistics, but wales are by no means a dominant force in rugby, yet in vocally targeting 3 in a row (most recently after getting dominated by Australia) they have placed a comic-book target on their foreheads, and i don't think everyone is going to miss.

So true   

 

Regarding the SH discussion earlier on this page, just watched the Bath Amlin game and thought Micky Young was looking good and teaming nicely with Ford (don't know how much they played/trained together at Leicester). It would be great to see him put his troublesome last few years behind him and show more from his earlier years of promise over the next couple of seasons, maybe pushing for a Saxons or EPS spot.

Best team in Europe NOT to have dominated the European competition in 10 years...maybe   

munkian wrote:We (Cuthbert) got 2 against you but they were all created by our back row I think - a steal off the floor and a run and dummy by Tipuric and a great break by Warbs which ended up in Cuthberts hands.

And yes, I think it will be a much closer game.

You are right - created by the backrow but finished by Cuthbert.

Actually both tries were scored by exploiting Brown's poor positioning when he was shunted to the wing.

A poor selection by Lancaster.

Wales also exploited the picking of Croft at 6 (who had just come back from a long term injury) and Wood out of position at 8.

Another foolish selection.

No coincidence that it was the Welsh backrow and the Welsh winger did the damage.

Let's hope that Lancaster gets his selections correct this time round.

12 months ago we didn't know our best pack and certainly couldn't put it out in that last game, so at least that's one step in the right direction. I keep coming back to 12 and 13 it's even boring me, but until we get a good balance there (more than a stop gap) I think any back 3 will struggle.

no 7 7&1/2 the whole backline issue depresses me.

9 looks no closer to being resolved. There seems to be no stand out candidate.

10 - Farrell is an okay option but everyone knows his strengths and weaknesses, his rivals are very inexperienced.

11 and 14 - Yarde and Wade who are inexperienced themselves are both injured,Ashton - still worries us all defensively, Watson and Nowell - aren't even that experienced at club level let alone international level!

12 and 13 - There are no 13s in the squad - no surprise there with the standout 13 (Manu) injured. That gives us 3 12s, Burrell is in form but inexperienced, 36 who floats along and Barritt who's strengths and weaknesses are known.

15 - Brown is the starting XV. He does what Lancaster asks of him.

Goode is the back up with Foden injured. Arguably not pacy enough for international level and not big enough attacking threat.

I thought Watson showed again last night why he's so highly thought even considering the opposition. Eastmond looked good as well. I think Dickson, Farrell, Eastmond, Burrell, May, Ashton and Brown has a nice balance. but lets face it until some combos get tried in the acid test of test rugby we're still very uncertain.

no 7 &1/2 he still didn't score! I know you'll say to me - tries don't matter. They do.

I suppose everyone is hoping he'll be one of those players who will score more tries at international level. My worry is that if he can't score against weaker sides what chance will he have vs the top ones?

Plus he hasn't been tested against a back three like that of Toulouse.