Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread II

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

A. Edinburgh
 

 
1. Pre-season
 
Fri 30 Aug 2013, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 15 - 5 Newcastle Falcons
 
Fri 23 Aug 2013, 19:30
Northampton Saints 24 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby
 
2. 2013/2014 Season - Played
 
Sat 7 Sep, 19:15
Munster Rugby 34 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 13 Newport Gwent Dragons
 
Sat 21 Sep, 18:30
Ospreys 44 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 9 - 22 Scarlets

Sun 6 Oct, 14:05
Cardiff Blues 29 - 12 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 25 Oct, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 13 Benetton Treviso

Fri 1 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 23 Zebre

Fri 22 Nov 19:05
Ulster Rugby 41 - 17 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 29 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 43 - 10 Connacht

Fri 20 Dec 19:35
Edinburgh Rugby 11 - 6 Leinster

Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors

Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby

3. 2013/2014 Season - Next 3 Games
 
Sun 9 Feb 13:05
Newport Gwent Dragons  v  Edinburgh Rugby

Sat 15 Feb 17:00
Connacht Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby

Sat 22 Feb 14:30
Scarlets v Edinburgh Rugby

B. Glasgow
 

 
1. Pre-season
 
Sat 31 Aug 2013, 15:00
Exeter Chiefs 26 - 29 Glasgow Warriors
 
2. 2013/2014 Season
 
Fri 6 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 22 - 15 Cardiff Blues
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 20 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 12 - 6 Leinster Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:30
Zebre 17 - 24 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 5 Oct, 18:30
Scarlets 12 - 17 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 25 Oct, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 6 - 13 Munster Rugby

Sat 2 Nov, 17:00
Connacht Rugby 12 - 19 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 22 Nov, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 8 - 23 Newport Gwent Dragons

Fri 29 Nov, 19:05
Ospreys 16 - 28 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 20 Dec, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors P - P Benetton Treviso

Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors

Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby

3. 2013/2014 Season - Next 3 Games
 
Sun 9 Feb 14:00
Glasgow Warriors v Connacht Rugby

Sat 15 Feb 18:30
Cardiff Blues v Glasgow Warriors

Sun 23 Feb 14:30
Newport Gwent Dragons   v   Glasgow Warriors
 
Any and all patter about these teams is welcome.
 
Any jingoism, sledging or graceless kicking of anyone whilst they are up or down will see posts deleted.
 
Be gracious and be constructive.

[RDW]

I also think we need to keep our expectations for Horne low when he comes back.  Yes he had a good season last year but being honest never looked massively comfortable at 10 - much better at 12.

Given how bad his injury is I don't think we should expect much from him until next season.

[BigGee]

I am not against beefing up the sevens squad a bit. It is a home commonwealth games at the end of the day and we need to be competitive. I have got tickets for the Saturday and don't want to be embarrassed. It will be quite an occasion for the players, playing in front of a full Ibrox, I believe it is sold out. You hope they will rise to the occasion.

With Horne coming back to fitness now and Vernon developing nicely in the new position we have got enough depth to cover it. Vernon has actually surprised me and looks as if he may well make a go of it. He had some really good touches against the scarlets. I would not rule out a cap at this stage.

Please though, don't rush Horne back too soon! The eejit doctors meant his injury was made worse.  Don't now make things worse by not letting him fully recover!

Its been 9 months, I don't think they have rushed him back. The knee should be fine now, stronger in fact than it was before. It was probably ok a couple of months ago but he needed that time to do the conditioning to get back to playing again. What he needs now is match fitness and he is only going to get that by playing. A few runs off the bench is the first step towards that.

[tigertattie]

Furrrraaaaa lineeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Will be interesting to see where he goes!

10? 12? 13?

[RDW]

I'd like him at 12 since Dunbar looks to be the long term Scotland 13. Dunbar needs to play there week in week out to become a real top class internationalist.

[RDW]

Matt Scott also needs competition at 12.

[tigertattie]

But will Horne be able to push Scott for the 12 spot?

Would a Scott 12 Horne 13 midfield not just make you jizz in your pants?

Also, hasnt Dunbar been playing 12 at glasgow all season?

[BigGee]

Dunbar seems equally happy in either centre position. There was a school of thought that suggested he was not quick enough to play 13 at international level. The tries this year fortunately put that one to bed!

[RDW]

Horne's not a 13.

Scott, Horne, Taylor - 12
Dunbar, Vernon, de Luca - 13

Boot polisher - Bennett

  

[George Carlin]

But will Horne be able to push Scott for the 12 spot?

Would a Scott 12 Horne 13 midfield not just make you jizz in your pants?

Wot no Richie Vernon?  

[tigertattie]

But will Horne be able to push Scott for the 12 spot?

Would a Scott 12 Horne 13 midfield not just make you jizz in your pants?

Wot no Richie Vernon?  

I'm talking about the 12 position Mr Carlin.

Not the 8/13 position

[RDW]

Looks like Cusiter has made a shrewd move moving to Sale - very likely to get a top 6 finish and even pushing for a top 4.

Brilliant effort from them given the lack of 'stars' in their team.

[tigertattie]

Go to the rugby banter page on Facebook. There's a video of carlin isles playing for Ayr. He makes an impressive break, gets over the try line, then makes an utter hash of things

[IanBru]

Go to the rugby banter page on Facebook. There's a video of carlin isles playing for Ayr. He makes an impressive break, gets over the try line, then makes an utter hash of things

Yeah, here's the video:
https://youtu.be/0r4jXw-tzP8

Plus, here's a post match video with an interviewer who, let's be honest, sounds like a bit of a douche.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYWk4EUgq1Q

You have to feel for Isles there - he's doing the right thing for a sevens player (i.e. getting the touchdown as close to the posts as possible), and the ball slips. Certainly not the end of the world, and it could happen anyone (I once had a clear run in to the line and got one stud caught in the laces of my other boot. I genuinely don't know how. Still cry sometimes.).

It's also worth taking in this simple fact: it's his first game at 15s. His first. Ever.

[George Carlin]

Go to the rugby banter page on Facebook. There's a video of carlin isles playing for Ayr. He makes an impressive break, gets over the try line, then makes an utter hash of things

Yeah, here's the video:
https://youtu.be/0r4jXw-tzP8

Plus, here's a post match video with an interviewer who, let's be honest, sounds like a bit of a douche.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYWk4EUgq1Q

You have to feel for Isles there - he's doing the right thing for a sevens player (i.e. getting the touchdown as close to the posts as possible), and the ball slips. Certainly not the end of the world, and it could happen anyone (I once had a clear run in to the line and got one stud caught in the laces of my other boot. I genuinely don't know how. Still cry sometimes.).

It's also worth taking in this simple fact: it's his first game at 15s. His first. Ever.

Ah Carlin. Someone should tell him that you need to be a bit more Fijian than he is to do all of that flagball malarkey.

Incidentally, I noticed that one of the scorers for the Crusaders against the Hurricaines at the weekend was a 23 year old wing/full back called Johnny McNicholl. Now don't tell me that lad doesn't have Scottish lineage. Where are you Sean Lineen?

[funnyExiledScot]

That Isles screw up is funny, but also worth noting the excellent work getting over the line. There's talent there.

[Nematode]

[quote="George Carlin"]

Go to the rugby banter page on Facebook. There's a video of carlin isles playing for Ayr. He makes an impressive break, gets over the try line, then makes an utter hash of things

Yeah, here's the video:
https://youtu.be/0r4jXw-tzP8

Incidentally, I noticed that one of the scorers for the Crusaders against the Hurricaines at the weekend was a 23 year old wing/full back called Johnny McNicholl. Now don't tell me that lad doesn't have Scottish lineage. Where are you Sean Lineen?

I had exactly the same thought! Couldn't find anything on his parents but he went to a NZ school.

[tigertattie]

That Isles screw up is funny, but also worth noting the excellent work getting over the line. There's talent there.

Aye its a giggle.

His break was excellent. he seems to be running while at a 45 degree angle.  We're always told to run with low bod angles, he seems to have an art for that!

Lesson for the youngsters, make sure you keep the ball secure.  Don't dot down with one hand. Two hands or fall onto the ball tucked under your arm.

[Majestic83]

Go to the rugby banter page on Facebook. There's a video of carlin isles playing for Ayr. He makes an impressive break, gets over the try line, then makes an utter hash of things

Yeah, here's the video:
https://youtu.be/0r4jXw-tzP8

Incidentally, I noticed that one of the scorers for the Crusaders against the Hurricaines at the weekend was a 23 year old wing/full back called Johnny McNicholl. Now don't tell me that lad doesn't have Scottish lineage. Where are you Sean Lineen?

I had exactly the same thought! Couldn't find anything on his parents but he went to a NZ school.

Yep mentioned Johnny McNicholl on here a year or 2 back. He was the guy that got Maitlands place at the Crusaders. He has been in excellent form at ITM cup level where he played a lot at full back. Used as a wing at crusaders level. Only played one game for them last season after he broke his leg. Slowly coming into form this season but he does look a very good player. Extremely quick, supposed to have a better 40m time that Habana.
He is Scottish qualified through grand parents but think he will stay in NZ a while yet to try break into the all blacks.

[tigertattie]

all this looking overseas for SQ players is a bit worrying!

the day will come where a player sues a nations union because they are not picked because they are not "qualified".  Some American (as an example) sues the IRFU as they are being racist for not picking him to play for Ireland because he's not irish (nor does he qualfy through grand-parents or residence)

[RDW]

Bad news Glasgow fans

http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/14/04/01/strauss-join-portuguese-side-caldas

[jimbopip]

Bad news Glasgow fans

http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/14/04/01/strauss-join-portuguese-side-caldas

If you believe that you'll believe that Schiz has sold his single-end and used the proceeds to buy a season ticket to watch the MFL.

[RDW]

It's a pretty poor effort from Glasgow really, they normally do a lot better than that this time of year!

[George Carlin]

Bad news Glasgow fans

http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/14/04/01/strauss-join-portuguese-side-caldas

He loves a bit of bacalhau, does our Joshua.

[MacKnocked-on]

Haven't noticed any discussion on the subject but during commentary of the Edinburgh game Piers Francis said he and a number of players were leaving at the end of the season and that the Edinburgh team would look very different next season. Obviously we know about Laidlaw and Cross (probably Rennie and De Luca) for certain but he inferred that there would be quite a few departures. I'm hoping the replacements will largely be SQ.

[RDW]

No surprise about two-names. He was the wrong player at the wrong time, and that wasn't his fault. He started showing promise before he got injured, but that was him out for the rest of the season.

Off the top of my head I think the following will be leaving (that we don't already know about):

Francis
PJP
Cox
McAlpine (maybe)
VDV
Basalaia
Leck
Black
Walker
Atiga

Then there's the questionnmarks over De Luca and Rennie.

A lot of dead wood and not much quality in that group, which is definitely a good thing.

[tigertattie]

I've always found Cox to be a decent club player!

[RDW]

Agreed, he was one of the few players who actually looked interested during the Bradley era, but he has his limitations and doesn't fit the Solomons mould

[GLove39]

Looking at that list, has Nikki Walker actually played for Edinburgh at all since we signed him?

[RDW]

Played one or two games early on, but that's it.

[Nematode]

He moved up to rekindle his international career, so given his age and the fact that he hasn't, I would expect he'll be retiring unless a championship team was interested.

[MacKnocked-on]

Hopefully Lineen has one or two gems lined up to replace some of the departing players. A mix of Scottish club players, Anglo-Scots and a couple of SQ players from elsewhere (Southern hemisphere and/or Rugby League) would be ideal I think.

[RDW]

Hopefully Lineen has one or two gems lined up to replace some of the departing players send to Glasgow. A mix of Scottish club players, Anglo-Scots and a couple of SQ players from elsewhere (Southern hemisphere and/or Rugby League) would be ideal I think.  

Fixed that for you!  

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

So MFL-faithful, what is the Edinbokke XXIII likely to look like next season assuming that they're all fit?

[MacKnocked-on]

Hopefully Lineen has one or two gems lined up to replace some of the departing players send to Glasgow. A mix of Scottish club players, Anglo-Scots and a couple of SQ players from elsewhere (Southern hemisphere and/or Rugby League) would be ideal I think.  

Fixed that for you!  

Thanks, very helpful of you but no doubt he'll soon be busy sending all the real gems to the hard cash of the 'Aberdeen Oilers' or whatever they'll be called..

[funnyExiledScot]

So MFL-faithful, what is the Edinbokke XXIII likely to look like next season assuming that they're all fit?

I'm touched you asked.

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Atkins 6.Du Preez 7.Grant 8.Denton 9.Hart 10.Bezzy 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Fife 14.Brown 15.Tonks

16.Berghan 17.Hilterbrand 18.Blaauw 19.Toolis 20.Coman 21.Hidalgo-Clyne 22.Leonard 23.Strauss

At least that's what I'm hoping it'll be, give or take.

[RDW]

Alan Dell is coming too - the young Saffer prop who recently won the under 20s world cup. Looks a very good prospect, more so than Berghan anyway who although massive hasn't got much of a playing pedigree.

[funnyExiledScot]

Alan Dell is coming too - the young Saffer prop who recently won the under 20s world cup. Looks a very good prospect, more so than Berghan anyway who although massive hasn't got much of a playing pedigree.

To be honest, having seen neither play, happy to switch them around. I assume Nel will continue to be first choice next season, at least to start off with.

[BigGee]

So MFL-faithful, what is the Edinbokke XXIII likely to look like next season assuming that they're all fit?

I'm touched you asked.

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Atkins 6.Du Preez 7.Grant 8.Denton 9.Hart 10.Bezzy 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Fife 14.Brown 15.Tonks

16.Berghan 17.Hilterbrand 18.Blaauw 19.Toolis 20.Coman 21.Hidalgo-Clyne 22.Leonard 23.Strauss

At least that's what I'm hoping it'll be, give or take.

Toinks to 10

Cuthbert to 15

Bezzy to bench

Otherwise pretty strong.

Unfortunately this team still needs a quality 10, Tonks and bezzy can do a job, but won't thake them to the next level. That needs to be the number one item on the shopping list now and over the summer. I would still like to see Haethcote up here, who does seem to have the potiential to be a quality international fly half.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

So MFL-faithful, what is the Edinbokke XXIII likely to look like next season assuming that they're all fit?

I'm touched you asked.

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Atkins 6.Du Preez 7.Grant 8.Denton 9.Hart 10.Bezzy 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Fife 14.Brown 15.Tonks

16.Berghan 17.Hilterbrand 18.Blaauw 19.Toolis 20.Coman 21.Hidalgo-Clyne 22.Leonard 23.Strauss

At least that's what I'm hoping it'll be, give or take.

So in terms of qualification for Scotland:

1.SQ 2.SQ 3.Project 4.SQ 5.Project 6.NSQ 7.SQ 8.SQ 9.SQ 10.NSQ 11.SQ 12.SQ 13.SQ 14.SQ 15.SQ

16.Project? 17.NSQ 18.Project? 19.SQ 20.Project? 21.SQ 22.SQ 23.NSQ

Is that roughly right? A lot better than I thought it would be - only 4 out of 23 not Scots-qualified

[Weegie Wizard]

Depsite all the noise, mainly in the papers from what I can tell, that team is mainly SQ or project.

I would also think 2nd row is a target for recruitment. Did Solomons have input in the Atkins and Toolis signings?

[Weegie Wizard]

Nice bit of repetition there. Sorry about that.
Is Du Preez not viewed as project as well?

[RDW]

Atkins is SQ - he played for Scotland A earlier in the year. Berghan and Dell are both SQ. Du Preez should also be counted as a project player as he's only 23, and is a complete beast.

In FES's squad, 17 SQ. Swap Blaauw for Dell and it is 18.

Edinburgh's first choice team have plenty SQ, it is the replacements that lower the number.

[MacKnocked-on]

So MFL-faithful, what is the Edinbokke XXIII likely to look like next season assuming that they're all fit?

I'm touched you asked.

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Atkins 6.Du Preez 7.Grant 8.Denton 9.Hart 10.Bezzy 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Fife 14.Brown 15.Tonks

16.Berghan 17.Hilterbrand 18.Blaauw 19.Toolis 20.Coman 21.Hidalgo-Clyne 22.Leonard 23.Strauss

At least that's what I'm hoping it'll be, give or take.

So in terms of qualification for Scotland:

1.SQ 2.SQ 3.Project 4.SQ 5.Project 6.NSQ 7.SQ 8.SQ 9.SQ 10.NSQ 11.SQ 12.SQ 13.SQ 14.SQ 15.SQ

16.Project? 17.NSQ 18.Project? 19.SQ 20.Project? 21.SQ 22.SQ 23.NSQ

Atkins is SQ and has already made his Scotland A debut this season. Pretty sure Hilterbrand is SQ already and Du preez is presumably a project player as he's been so good it would be a shame to lose him.

Is that roughly right?  A lot better than I thought it would be - only 4 out of 23 not Scots-qualified

[funnyExiledScot]

Atkins is SQ.
Du Preez is Project.
Don't know about Berghan.
Toolis is SQ.
I don't think Coman is Project. I doubt he'll be an option for Scotland.

I put Strauss on the bench, but that could easily have been Cuthbert, who is SQ and a player I know you rate highly.

But yes, it's not actually as bad as you think. The key is making sure that those who are NSQ are genuinely adding something over and above the SQ alternatives. That's ultimately where we've got it badly wrong in the past (and still aren't entirely getting it right).

[Weegie Wizard]

The NSQ that has stood out this season for me is Coman. I think he has been a real find considering I dont think he has ever played Super Rugby.
I think he is in his mid 20s already though so not a good project candidate.

[RDW]

Looking at it differently, an entirely SQ 23 would be as follows, with the problem positions highlighted in bold:

Dickinson
Ford
Berghan
Gilchrist
Atkins
Watson
Grant
Denton

Hart
Tonks
Visser
Scott
Fife
Cuthbert

Dell, Hilterbrand, McQuillan, Toolis, ?, S-H-C, Hunter, Brown

So tighthead prop, standoff and back row.  Backrow has some strong NSQ in Du Preez and Leonardi, and we have Nel at prop.

[funnyExiledScot]

Surely Leonard over Hunter RDW, and I think you're a back short. NDL at 13?

McInally can forget about being a hooker and cover the back row from the bench.

[BigGee]

The NSQ that has stood out this season for me is Coman. I think he has been a real find considering I dont think he has ever played Super Rugby.
I think he is in his mid 20s already though so not a good project candidate.

The depth of players in NZ means that you can still be a very good player even if you don't get into a super rugby team. There are probably loads of players like Conman over there who have just been short of a break in their careers. He could remain as a good squad player for Edinburgh and probably does not even cost them that much.

[RDW]

Surely Leonard over Hunter RDW, and I think you're a back short. NDL at 13?

McInally can forget about being a hooker and cover the back row from the bench.

Yeah there's Leonard,but my point is the same.

I'm assuming De Luca is leaving

[RDW]

Brown on the wing and Auld on the bench then!

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