Pick Your Irish XV For Scotland

First topic message reminder :

Alright, with the Wolfhounds winning 14-8 on a horrible night in Gloucester, we've no rugby left before Irelands 2014 Six Nations campaign kicks off on Sunday. Joe Schmidt has watched the 4 provinces from Rounds 3 to 6 in the Heineken Cup and tonights game was his last chance to see any player who needs game time after an injury or is on the fringes of the squad push their claim in a competitive match.

This time next week, the Ireland guys selected to play Scotland will be in a hotel in Dublin with I'd imagine some considerable amount of nerves and anticipation, all the preparation done, and we'll have seen the form of France, England and Wales on the opening day of the tournament.

So- who's gonna be in, who's gonna be out, who are the bolters, who are the conservative picks and who do you think should be there? Get cracking.

tecphobe wrote:I'M glad we can all agree now that neither ROG Stringer or Humpheries should be in the squad ;-). Would anyone else be tempted to give Copeland a game at lock ? I would like to see an option other than Kearney tried at Full Back

I think the last time Copland played lock was for St. marys in the ail. I don't think he's tall enough to play there at higher levels

tecphobe wrote:I wonder with James Coughlan if its the same issue with Dan Tuoy face doesn't fit, i do think if he was welsh he would have a shed load of caps reminds me on Michael Owen former wales backrow

I'd say its more a case that the IRFU want some return on the big bucks they're paying Heaslip - even Kieran Reid wouldn't get a game for Ireland ......   

Golden wrote:

tecphobe wrote:I'M glad we can all agree now that neither ROG Stringer or Humpheries should be in the squad ;-). Would anyone else be tempted to give Copeland a game at lock ? I would like to see an option other than Kearney tried at Full Back

I think the last time Copland played lock was for St. marys in the ail. I don't think he's tall enough to play there at higher levels

Same height as BRAD THORNE i mean its not as if Ireland are crying out for a second row  :who can carry or anything

Well they wont play Tuohy who is a carrying 2nd row and has been outstanding this year so why would they consider a player who has never played top flight rugby in the 2nd row.

Copeland has no chance of playing 2nd row - period.

Ireland have more options at second row than at 8.

Does anyone know when the real team is announced?

geoff998rugby wrote:Well they wont play Tuohy who is a carrying 2nd row and has been outstanding this year so why would they consider a player who has never played top flight rugby in the 2nd row.

Copeland has no chance of playing 2nd row - period.

Geoff i don't agree with that either the non picking of Tuohy

Notch wrote:Does anyone know when the real team is announced?

As soon as well all agree   

 

Games on a Sunday its normally Thurnday about 2 for a Saturday game so im going to guess Friday at 2 for a sunday one

Ireland v Scotland head to head last 12 years in 6 nations:

Ireland wins - 10
Scotland - 2

Ireland tries - 34
Scotland - 6

Re the Ireland loss last year:

"If I'd started against Scotland, we would have been out of sight before they came into the game" - Ronan O'Gara

Re the loss in 2010:

According to Donnacha O'Callaghan we lost because Ireland decidided "to play like the Harlem Globetrotters."

So there you have it. History says Ireland should win. The reality is it is a must win.

Remember how bad O'Gara was when he came on though? That was an ill-fitting end to his career.

rodders wrote:Ireland have more options at second row than at 8.

If Heaslip got injured I would look no further than Copeland and Murphy

High hopes of both

Notch wrote:Remember how bad O'Gara was when he came on though? That was an ill-fitting end to his career.

It was a shame but he did himself no favours making such a stupid statement after such an abject performance

Notch wrote:Remember how bad O'Gara was when he came on though? That was an ill-fitting end to his career.

Yeah I know. He is a real motor mouth but you have to admire his confidence. In fairness to him aparently in the dressing room afterwards he piped up to take responsibility for playing badly but was advised against it by teammates as it might be held against him. By who Declan Kidney?

geoff998rugby wrote:

rodders wrote:Ireland have more options at second row than at 8.

If Heaslip got injured I would look no further than Copeland and Murphy

High hopes of both

Yeah Copeland certainly Geoff but Murphy is on the small side, even for the U-20s he looked small for an 8. As with Henry I think a move to openside will benefit his career in the long term.

I think at 8 we have adequate injury cover but Copeland looks like the only guy who can push Heaslip assuming O'Mahoney is seen as a 6.

"It would take a coach with balls to pick me for Saturday Deccie!" - ROG

What a chancer!   

rodders wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

rodders wrote:Ireland have more options at second row than at 8.

If Heaslip got injured I would look no further than Copeland and Murphy

High hopes of both

Yeah Copeland certainly Geoff but Murphy is on the small side, even for the U-20s he looked small for an 8. As with Henry I think a move to openside will benefit his career in the long term.

I think at 8 we have adequate injury cover but Copeland looks like the only guy who can push Heaslip assuming O'Mahoney is seen as a 6.

Joe said Murphy was a 7 as well. This season hes looked much better at 8 though. I guess the 7 role takes longer to learn

34-man squad out; no Simon Zebo! That'll rattle a few cages.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/30561.php

Ireland Squad for the games against Scotland and Wales

Forwards (18)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Robin Copeland (Cardiff Blues)*
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)

Backs (16)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Luke Marshall (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

There is clearly some sort of issue attitude/injury or otherwise with Zebo. I certainly wouldnt have selected him behind Jones. Interesting that Cave has muscled his was in but will surely drop out of the match day squad.

Good squad....a wee bit short of pace in the backs minus Gilroy and Zebo but as I said before Joe prefers technical players who play through the middle than out and out wingers and going around sides. A lot of form picks in there.

Happy for Dan Touhy and Cave to get a chance. Ruddock and Copeland are good selections.

So between Kearney,McFadden and Trimble for the right wing spot. I'm presuming Luke will start.

Really is odd that Zebos not been inlcuded

Quite a turn around from last year for Gilroy and Zebo.

Copeland, Murphy and Moore all hoping for a chance to win their first caps.

No Archer or Fitzpatrick. So Moore and Ross are our Tightheads and Healy and McGrath our looseheads.

Could pick most of the team from that. Areas that could go either way are 4, 12, 14, 19, 22 and  23

No Zebo...hmmm...there's an awful blue look to that team. Fair enough if they deliver...

Pretty annoyed that Marmion has been dropped. I think the below is what Joe may will pick which is pretty drab...

9 Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
10 Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92)
11 Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
12 Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
14 David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
15 Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)


21 Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
22 Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
23 Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

wolfball wrote:Pretty annoyed that Marmion has been dropped. I think the below is what Joe may will pick which is pretty drab...

9 Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
10 Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92)
11 Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
12 Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
14 David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
15 Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)


21 Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
22 Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
23 Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

Cant see further than that really.

I reckon McFadden might get picked ahead of Fitz.

GunsGerms wrote:I reckon McFadden might get picked ahead of Fitz.

That would be even stranger....

Just noted that Felix Jones was included in the backs....now...that I do find strange. He has been ok this year for Munster but nothing special and he was fairly ordinary in the wolfhounds game....

ME-109 wrote:Just noted that Felix Jones was included in the backs....now...that I do find strange. He has been ok this year for Munster but nothing special and he was fairly ordinary in the wolfhounds game....

Must mean Henshaw is viewed as a 13.

You's are all Zebo-natics.

Really disappointed that Zebo isn't there, he'd be on the left wing for me every time.

Some strange calls there,the team needs to deliver now to justify them or Schmidt will come under some pressure.The only thing is that squad isn't set in stone and players can drop in and out over the course of the tournament.

What strange calls? He's picked the players who are fit and playing well and left out the one's that aren't.

We can't pick everyone. That's a decent, well rounded squad with experience and youth.

You really have to rank Leinster based on results in the Heinken cup form as the 2 or 3rd province right now, and that is no way represented in that squad. From my own biased perspective, Connacht only deserves 2 players in this squad and 1 is there so thats a 50% return I guess... but how Ulster does not dominate the Irish backline is beyond me. Also Zebo and Tuohy should start for Ireland right now also.

Notch wrote:34-man squad out; no Simon Zebo! That'll rattle a few cages.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/30561.php

Ireland Squad for the games against Scotland and Wales

Forwards (18)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Robin Copeland (Cardiff Blues)*
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)

Backs (16)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Luke Marshall (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

Just for ease.

LH: Healy-McGrath
HK: Best-Cronin
TH: Ross-Moore
LK: POC-Tuohy-Henderson-Toner-McCarthy
BR: Heaslip-POM-Henry-TOD-Ruddock-Murphy-Copeland

SH: Murray-Reddan
FH: Sexton-Jackson-Madigan
CT: Darcy-BOD-Marshall-Henshaw-Cave
WG: Kearney-Trimble-McFadden-Fitzgerald
FB: Kearney-Jones

Yeah big calls on taking out Zebo and Gilroy.

Also odd seeing so few front rows and so many back5 forwards. Was 7 BR and 5 LK really necessary??

Yep, this squad is for the first two games only ASLS.

Of course, the core of the team will likely remain the same throughout- I'm sure we can all guess 10 or so of the names.

From that I would go;

Healy, Best, Ross, Tuohy, POC, POM, Henry, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Marshall, Trimble, Kearney

I'm aware that I've changed my mind about the second row and the wing- I reserve the right to change my mind many, many times in the run up to the game   

Zebo not being picked suggests a none rugby reason to me.

Fitzpatrick has been asked, like Bowe, to play game time for Ulster before being included for games 3 to 5

Jones simply doesn't justify selection

Anyone made a note of the 10 droped from the original squad?

wolfball wrote:You really have to rank Leinster based on results in the Heinken cup form as the 2 or 3rd province right now, and that is no way represented in that squad. From my own biased perspective, Connacht only deserves 2 players in this squad and 1 is there so thats a 50% return I guess... but how Ulster does not dominate the Irish backline is beyond me. Also Zebo and Tuohy should start for Ireland right now also.

On the bolded part you could put Ulster ahead of us but not by much.

The reasons Ulster don't dominate the backline are Bowe is injured,Pienaar and Payne are NIQ,Jackson is in there but clearly behind Sexton,Trimble is only just starting to play well this season and Gilroy is returning from injury and was poor for the Wolfhounds on Saturday.

geoff998rugby wrote:
Anyone made a note of the 10 droped from the original squad?

Zebo, Kilcoyne, Marmion, Herring, Diack, Wilson, Murphy, Varley, Cronin, Boss, Keatley?

Strauss as well, though I think he only played for the Wolfhounds because Varley had a niggle.

rodders wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:
Anyone made a note of the 10 droped from the original squad?

Zebo, Kilcoyne, Marmion, Herring, Diack, Wilson, Murphy, Varley, Cronin, Boss, Keatley?

Cronin is still in the squad no?

wolfball wrote:You really have to rank Leinster based on results in the Heinken cup form as the 2 or 3rd province right now, and that is no way represented in that squad. From my own biased perspective, Connacht only deserves 2 players in this squad and 1 is there so thats a 50% return I guess... but how Ulster does not dominate the Irish backline is beyond me. Also Zebo and Tuohy should start for Ireland right now also.

Just on the point about Ulster, they have Pienaar and Payne playing in their backline, Leinster have Gopperth and ZK. The difference being Pienaar and Payne play all of Ulsters matches Gopperth and ZK only play in some of Leinsters, admittedly Gopperth has been playing more but this is reflected in Mads being 3rd choice SH behind Jackson and Sexton.

TBH I think if you took the non IQ contingent out of both Ulster and Leinster, Leinster would win hands down every time like they did recently at the RDS, you'd have to think this is factored into to Schmidts thinking on the team as well as the fact that the Leinster lads have played much more under Schmidt and know what he wants from them.

I think this will even it'self out over the next few months with players returning and the summer tour ect... there is no way Schmidt would level a fully fit Ferris or Bowe out of the Ireland squad and with Payne being IQ in November I fully expect Ulster upcoming Heineken Cup win to be reflected in the Summer tests and the November AIs

GunsGerms wrote:

rodders wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:
Anyone made a note of the 10 droped from the original squad?

Zebo, Kilcoyne, Marmion, Herring, Diack, Wilson, Murphy, Varley, Cronin, Boss, Keatley?

Cronin is still in the squad no?

Yeah I meant Jerry, wasn't he there?

GunsGerms wrote:

rodders wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:
Anyone made a note of the 10 droped from the original squad?

Zebo, Kilcoyne, Marmion, Herring, Diack, Wilson, Murphy, Varley, Cronin, Boss, Keatley?

Cronin is still in the squad no?

Murphy is too.

Ah, Jerry Cronin! Now there's an obscure rugby player. All these Johnny come-latelys propping up the bars in the Aviva don't know their Jerry Cronins from their Simon Shawes if you ask me!   

Notch wrote:Ah, Jerry Cronin! Now there's an obscure rugby player. All these Johnny come-latelys propping up the bars in the Aviva don't know their Jerry Cronins from their Simon Shawes if you ask me!   

Nice. That would catch a few out alright...

Notch wrote:Ah, Jerry Cronin! Now there's an obscure rugby player.  

Well if he wasn't in the original squad he should have been, obscurity is not a reason to be omitted Notch....  

Golden wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

rodders wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:
Anyone made a note of the 10 droped from the original squad?

Zebo, Kilcoyne, Marmion, Herring, Diack, Wilson, Murphy, Varley, Cronin, Boss, Keatley?

Cronin is still in the squad no?

Murphy is too.

Johne Murphy! Keep up lads....