Pick Your Irish XV For Scotland

First topic message reminder :

Alright, with the Wolfhounds winning 14-8 on a horrible night in Gloucester, we've no rugby left before Irelands 2014 Six Nations campaign kicks off on Sunday. Joe Schmidt has watched the 4 provinces from Rounds 3 to 6 in the Heineken Cup and tonights game was his last chance to see any player who needs game time after an injury or is on the fringes of the squad push their claim in a competitive match.

This time next week, the Ireland guys selected to play Scotland will be in a hotel in Dublin with I'd imagine some considerable amount of nerves and anticipation, all the preparation done, and we'll have seen the form of France, England and Wales on the opening day of the tournament.

So- who's gonna be in, who's gonna be out, who are the bolters, who are the conservative picks and who do you think should be there? Get cracking.

Haha fair enough rodders.

Didnt realise he was in the squad.

Great squad. And it will change over the 5 games, based on form, availability and for game-plan/technical reasons. Be assured of that.

Really excited about our chances in the 6-N this year for the 1st time in yonks. And that includes 2009.
If we beat either of England or France(my personal choice) away, and that must a prime aim for JS, then we will be in the hunt for the Championship. No SLAM this year for anyone. Even the Welsh.

Believe.

I know, right? I'm so excited I'm going to watch Against the Head- even though it has Gerry Thornley on it. That said, it also has Quinlan and Jackman who are excellent. Be much better if it was just those two without Thornley tbh.

When is that on Notch? I have an Irish IP address now... Twill be great for the 6-N. Want to hear our mate - Georgie Hook, talk total bollox and then watch him worm his way out of it when reality contradicts him. Its a no-miss show really. Quinny and Jackman talk so much sense. No BS.

Thornley is a pretentious dick. Find it hard to read his columns anymore. Loving our Franno these days though. Some good stuff of late.

It's on right now.

Bugger!

You know, sometimes when I see Gerry Thornley on TV I think... someone give that guy a bath and a Cup-A-Soup.

 

Ja, and in person hes even more of a knacker. Met him at Lansdowne last year. Looks like he slept out all his life. Maybe he does. I mean who'd live with him?

Im watching this now. Oooooh man... can you feel it?

Id love to see Italy beat one of the big ones again this year (not us). Its becoming tradition. And now they can throw the ball around and are more attack-minded, the pack giving them the space, they are even more of a  threat. Might stick a few euro on them v France, Wales and England.

I'm going to that game in Dublin, its a couple of days after my birthday so making a thing of it- got to win the home games against Scotland and Italy well! It's all about the points difference, got to score tries in these games. We lost to Scotland and Italy last year, the fear factor is probably gone after that and they'll be looking to leave Dublin with a scalp.

I'm excited.

Jackmans' analysis on the KeeWee game was spot on. Must do that to all opponents from here on in.

I have a few comments after watching the A game.


Firstly the 3 players who really put their hand up for inclusion were TOD, Henshaw and Madigan.


TOD was very good and could easily be selected ahead of Henry. Henry is a superb tackler and choke tackler but defensively TOD covers more ground and is quicker to the breakdown etc. Attack wise TOD has the advantage there and Schmidt is an attack coach so don't be surprised to see TOD start.


Henshaw played very well against the Saxons and is really looking at home in the 13 jersey. He has a big physical advantage over BOD now and if Schmidt thinks the back line are too small and then Henshaw could be a surprise choice. It would be a surprise but he is playing better than BOD.


Madigan played well in the A game and is more flexible in terms of playing position and a better kicker than jackson. It would be harsh on PJ but don't be surprised to see Madigan on the bench.


All the players mentioned will see some action in the 6 nations.


As for Zebo. He was a disgrace the last time he played for Ireland. Pulling out of challenges, more interested in being call up for the Lions. He should be dropped for that alone. Give me a less talented 100% player any day.

Notch wrote:You know, sometimes when I see Gerry Thornley on TV I think... someone give that guy a bath and a Cup-A-Soup.

...but definitely not your loose change because he looks like he'd be straight back on the sauce.....  

profitius wrote:I have a few comments after watching the A game.


Firstly the 3 players who really put their hand up for inclusion were TOD, Henshaw and Madigan.


TOD was very good and could easily be selected ahead of Henry. Henry is a superb tackler and choke tackler but defensively TOD covers more ground and is quicker to the breakdown etc. Attack wise TOD has the advantage there and Schmidt is an attack coach so don't be surprised to see TOD start.


Henshaw played very well against the Saxons and is really looking at home in the 13 jersey. He has a big physical advantage over BOD now and if Schmidt thinks the back line are too small and then Henshaw could be a surprise choice. It would be a surprise but he is playing better than BOD.


Madigan played well in the A game and is more flexible in terms of playing position and a better kicker than jackson. It would be harsh on PJ but don't be surprised to see Madigan on the bench.


All the players mentioned will see some action in the 6 nations.


As for Zebo. He was a disgrace the last time he played for Ireland. Pulling out of challenges, more interested in being call up for the Lions. He should be dropped for that alone. Give me a less talented 100% player any day.

Oh dear sounds like an embittered ex Christians boy....

I didn't think Madigan played that well in the wolfhounds game, he did brilliantly for his try but he did a lot of very poor stuff as well, although he offers more positions than Jackson so I would say he will be the more likely sub come Saturday. O'Donnell did very well v Saxons but still think that Henry is ahead of him in the pecking order at this stage.
As for Zebo this is a new time whatever he done in North America is behind us and him unless he is actively looking out or whatever now then it should be purely down to his form which I think he showed enough off to be at least in the squad today. Off course we don't really know whats going on there maybe Schmidt has seen something he doesn't like whatever the idea is I'm sure he has a good reason.

...jeebus this Zeeboitis seems to be spreading like wildfire... like he's done flip all this season, he had a wee run out for the wolfhounds and didn't do much..

Just because he plays for Munster, runs quick and smiles a lot doesn't give him a god given right to a place in the squad any more than the fact that Keith Earls plays for Munster, runs quickish and frowns a lot does.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Zebo play in this Six Nations tbh. Plenty of time yet.

I didn't think Madigan played that well in the Wolfhounds game either. Maybe it was because of the conditions but he ran everything. Cave and Henshaw barely saw the ball, and when we had the wind advantage in the first half we didn't capitalise in terms of territory- that said it seemed a treacherous wind, but I'd like him to pin teams back a bit more. We nearly lost that game because we played almost all of it in our own half.

I'd like Jackson to get the last 20 minutes off the bench if it's going well, if we're winning. Sexton has obviously had a tougher schedule than most players and we've two games in six days. Madigan would be good when you need to chase a game, but in Dublin I'd much rather bring on Jackson to steer us home. I'd trust him a lot more.

ME-109 wrote:

profitius wrote:I have a few comments after watching the A game.


Firstly the 3 players who really put their hand up for inclusion were TOD, Henshaw and Madigan.


TOD was very good and could easily be selected ahead of Henry. Henry is a superb tackler and choke tackler but defensively TOD covers more ground and is quicker to the breakdown etc. Attack wise TOD has the advantage there and Schmidt is an attack coach so don't be surprised to see TOD start.


Henshaw played very well against the Saxons and is really looking at home in the 13 jersey. He has a big physical advantage over BOD now and if Schmidt thinks the back line are too small and then Henshaw could be a surprise choice. It would be a surprise but he is playing better than BOD.


Madigan played well in the A game and is more flexible in terms of playing position and a better kicker than jackson. It would be harsh on PJ but don't be surprised to see Madigan on the bench.


All the players mentioned will see some action in the 6 nations.


As for Zebo. He was a disgrace the last time he played for Ireland. Pulling out of challenges, more interested in being call up for the Lions. He should be dropped for that alone. Give me a less talented 100% player any day.

Oh dear sounds like an embittered ex Christians boy....

I lol'ed when I read that! ;-)

rodders wrote:...jeebus this Zeeboitis seems to be spreading like wildfire... like he's done flip all this season, he had a wee run out for the wolfhounds and didn't do much..

Just because he plays for Munster, runs quick and smiles a lot doesn't give him a god given right to a place in the squad any more than the fact that Keith Earls plays for Munster, runs quickish and frowns a lot does.

  

I am liking this thread, can't contribute much on the form of the various Irish players but enjoying the craic

Based on the selection so far I can only guess what the game plan is going to be (considering our best ball carrying forward is also missing)...Maybe Darce and BOD have got new supercharged wheelchairs....because the last time either of them made a clean break in a top class game was some time ago...(maybe someone can remind me)....

Maybe Joe forgot that Isa isnt playing anymore...

Notch wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see Zebo play in this Six Nations tbh. Plenty of time yet.

I didn't think Madigan played that well in the Wolfhounds game either. Maybe it was because of the conditions but he ran everything. Cave and Henshaw barely saw the ball, and when we had the wind advantage in the first half we didn't capitalise in terms of territory- that said it seemed a treacherous wind, but I'd like him to pin teams back a bit more. We nearly lost that game because we played almost all of it in our own half.

I'd like Jackson to get the last 20 minutes off the bench if it's going well, if we're winning. Sexton has obviously had a tougher schedule than most players and we've two games in six days. Madigan would be good when you need to chase a game, but in Dublin I'd much rather bring on Jackson to steer us home. I'd trust him a lot more.

I'd agree with you there, Notch. he had the wind in his favour in the first half and yet most of the game was played in our half. It was only very well organised defence, plus some nonsense play by the Saxons (where was Wallace, their 7, all game?) that kept the Wolfhounds in the lead. I don't think Keatley is international standard, but it was noticeable that almost the first thing he did when he came on was to find a good touch which moved the game down near the Saxons 22.

I know we have been warned not to start any unnecessary rows on here during the 6Ns. But I have to admit when I saw the squad, my heart sank. I remember all those years ago on the Beeb 606 arguing with Red Stag over whether we preferred Club or International matches. I loved the 6Ns. I loved the hope and, occasionally, the expectation going into the whole tournament. the fact that for years and years, until very recently, Ireland ALWAYS played France first up (and at least every other year lost) did not dim my anticipation of the tournament. In the days of a 5-man selector panel, there was always an argument to be had once the team was picked. Since there has been a Coach in charge that has improved. The players in the provinces get more game time against good opposition through the HEC and as a result, the squad selected has borne a close fit to the relative strengths of the provinces. This squad has really disappointed me. It is not just tinged with blue, it is deep deep blue. Yes, I am particularly disappointed Zebo isn't there. To the poster who said he should be dropped because of the way he played against the USA in the summer - what about all the rubbish games J Heaslip played for Ireland over the years? Secure that there was no REAL competition for his place, he coasted, offered nothing to the team and got picked time after time after time - realistic there was no one else. He has begun to show some real form again when in green, but for a few years after that incident when he was red-carded against the ABs in NZ he went out to the pitch and did no more than go through the motions. One could say the same about Rob Kearney. After the Lions 2009, he sat back and coasted when in green. It was, if the stories are to be believed, the one who criticised the Mubnster players for doing more in red than they did in green and then went on to behave exactly the same way - playing in blue and offering very little when in green.

Zebo is a player who ENJOYS playing rugby. When on the pitch, he goes looking for the ball; he gets involved; to those who say his tackling is suspect, last Saturday he made 4 and missed none.

Why is Eoin Reddan there? every time I have seen him play this season he has passed rubbish passes; his box kicks have at times been embarrassingly poor and yet he is in the squad. Why not Marmion who is surely the future?

I could go on, but I am really so fed up with this squad I can't be bothered.

I am sure some posters will come on and have a go at me for saying these things, but here I am for the FIRST time since about 1960 (that is not a mistype - I mean nineteen sixty) I find myself not looking forward to the 5 / 6Ns and not caring how Ireland do.

The only positive I can take out of the squad chosen - fewer Munster players being exposed to potential injury.

Over half the squad are Leinster lads which is a massive portion of them.

Mad thinking that front row was a weak area for Leinster 7 years ago and now 5 out of 6 of the 6Nations front rowers come from Leinster.

Still think it is mad how many locks and backrow are in the squad.

I understand how you feel Kia- even if I do disagree. But if it does work out for us, if Ireland do get on a roll will it change your mind?

This has been how it is for Ulster for most of the last 15 years. If I didn't get excited about an Ireland team without many Ulster players, I wouldn't get excited about any test rugby at all! I've always found that whatever grievances I've had with an Irish team whenever the whistle blows at the start of the game they tend to go out the window.

Everything I'm hearing suggests the Ulster and Munster players are really enjoying working with Schmidt and there's a good buzz in the camp.

It could be back to the EOS days of ROG and the Leinster backline with...


Sexton
Darcy-BOD
Fitzgerald-Kearney-Kearney/McFadden

Rory Best, Paul O'Connell, Chris Henry, Peter O'Mahony and Conor Murray could be the only non-Leinster players in the first XV. If he substituted them for Sean Cronin, Mike McCarthy, Rhys Ruddock, Jordi Murphy and Eoin Reddan we'd still be very competitive. It would be a madhouse on here in the wake of that, of course, there'd be a real reaction!

Kia I'm not thrilled with the omission of Zebo but I don't see this being a "deep deep blue" squad. You could argue Marmion should be ahead of Reddan, but Reddan is actually in quite good form and rightly or wrongly Marmion has no international experience.
Zebo should be in over a number of players in my view, Dave Kearney and Fergus McFadden but also Andrew Trimble and Felix Jones...

profitius wrote:I have a few comments after watching the A game.


Firstly the 3 players who really put their hand up for inclusion were TOD, Henshaw and Madigan.

Funny I see it differently - Henderson, Ruddock and Boss for me.

I do think TOD and Henshaw played well as did the rest of the pack - although scrums weren't great (at least in the firsthalf)
Madigan for me was nowhere near as good as the publicity

theslosty wrote: You could argue Marmion should be ahead of Reddan, but Reddan is actually in quite good form and rightly or wrongly Marmion has no international experience.

Reddan is in superb form - a number of times I've watched Leinster and he's been the best player on the pitch, he had an excellent Autumn too so I'm not sure what games his critics have been watching? On form Boss would be ahead of Marmion too.

Jones is a specialist fullback and he and McFadden both played better than Zebo on Saturday and given Dave K was the incumbent 14 against the ABs its not surprising he's been retained...

Jones played better than no one for the Wolfhounds - he was awful

Well he didn't get injured Geoff, and given he was competing with himself for the second fullback slot that's probably good enough......

Tbh, does anyone really see Jones and Cave doing anything but holding tackle bags? Arguably Henshaw will be ahead of both of them if there's a need at 13 or 15. Henshaw, Henderson, O'Donnell, Ruddock and Tuohy were the ones who caught my eye at the weekend.

It's no wonder Schmidt has so many back rows and second rows in the squad, there'll all putting their hands up. Henderson and O'Donnell on the bench for me (yes, I changed my mind again. Sue me!)

Would anyone trust Jones to start against anyone? He isnt really good enough IMO.

Ireland could win the whole tin cup. You know it. So does everybody else. But what will that pressure to do your game? I watched the England-Ireland match outdoors in Dubai last year and was shouting at the screen by the end. A couple of bad decisions, couple of dropped passes and the forwards just seemed to fade away in the last 20. Didn't understand that at all.

Notch wrote:Tbh, does anyone really see Jones and Cave doing anything but holding tackle bags?

Are you crazy Notch?......with Jones injury profile I wouldn't be letting him near a tackle bag! - he'd do his back in lifting it!

George Carlin wrote:Ireland could win the whole tin cup. You know it. So does everybody else. But what will that pressure to do your game? I watched the England-Ireland match outdoors in Dubai last year and was shouting at the screen by the end. A couple of bad decisions, couple of dropped passes and the forwards just seemed to fade away in the last 20. Didn't understand that at all.

Ireland had no imagination in that match. They fronted up well enough in the forwards but there was no creativity or investion in our game plan. I expect it to be different this year.

Agree with GG. Schmidt is an excellent backs coach, and some of the rugby Ireland played against the ABs was absolutely first rate. I don't think Ireland will struggle for creativity.

The big blow is losing SOB, as along with Healy he provides that wrecking ball carrying which gives Ireland such great momentum and front foot ball. The conditions will also make things interesting, as heavy rain is predicted. Not the weather for slick backs moves, so Ireland will need to be careful. Sexton might have to limit the ambition of the side somewhat and put in a ROG-esque sort of performance. POC is a top class lineout operator and Ford can't throw to save his life, so kicking to the corners could be a particularly profitable tactic. Lamont usually leaves a few acres of room behind him as well.

Still, Scotland have always played the rainy conditions well, it's somewhat of a speciality of ours, and Greg Laidlaw is a canny operator. If it does pour down and SJ gets his team selection right, we'll be difficult opponents. If it's dry, it'll be tough watching for us Scots I think.

Notch wrote:You know, sometimes when I see Gerry Thornley on TV I think... someone give that guy a bath and a Cup-A-Soup.

As someone else has said so accurately, Thornley is a pretentious dick and the IRFU's pet poodle among the rugby press pack - will always back whatever the blazers want backed, following in a a long line of Irish Times rugby writers of equal useleseness - Ned Van Esbeck being the prime example.

And as for his appearance, if you saw him slugging a cheap bottle of sherry you wouldn't be surprised - don't expect journos to dress up but jeez he looks like he never changes his shirt

I see Thornley quite regularly in Costa coffee in Carrickmines. He looks like he is missing a few years sleep every time. Surely washing your hair and face once a decade isnt that hard too especially when you are on TV. Seriously Gerry.

Feic sake lads it doesn't matter what he looks like, so what if his appearance is that of a try hard bohemian, he's a good writer. Yes he was Kidneys mouthpiece for a while, and that was very annoying, but before that he was always highly respected, and since then he's back in form with some cracking articles lately.

And who doesn't enjoy a bit of Thornley bingo when they read him? When i'm hors du combat after a heavy night on the drink, i assuredly love catching up on his latest pearls of wisdom, and I don't stop till it's a fait acompli.

I usually do read many Thornley articles and he does write well but I reckon he gets it badly wrong more often than not. he is a good source of information but I dont value his opinion much to be honest. It wouldnt be relevant at all what he looks like except for the fact he works on TV. Surely a shower isnt much to ask someone with a TV job?

Its not nice to say such things about someone online. However, if he was a friend of mine I would honestly tell him he looked like a complete mess.

Mickado wrote:And who doesn't enjoy a bit of Thornley bingo when they read him? When i'm hors du combat after a heavy night on the drink, i assuredly love catching up on his latest pearls of wisdom, and I don't stop till it's a fait acompli.

  That's a full house right there.

Nah, he's lost his edge. He used to be a very good writer but I can't remember the last time I read him offering anything more than a lightweight puff piece. I prefer the twitter parody! But I do like how my joke about his dishevelled appearance sparked a full on wave of derision towards Thornley, and now the backlash is starting  

He reminds me of a disheveled David Feherty

Conversation has shifted on this thread from rugby to the exclusive discussion of Thornleys personal grooming- one could say that the thread has suffered something of a bloodless coup.

Notch wrote:Conversation has shifted on this thread from rugby to the exclusive discussion of Thornleys personal grooming- one could say that the thread has suffered something of a bloodless coup.

Yeah it has gotten ugly alright...

...sorry Gerry couldnt resist.

Notch wrote:Conversation has shifted on this thread from rugby to the exclusive discussion of Thornleys personal grooming- one could say that the thread has suffered something of a bloodless coup.

There are two sides of the argument, whoever pitches up with the whiff of cordite in their nostrils will assuredly take the spoils.

Listening to a bit of seconds captains with him now. Amore.

i can report that BBC Wales are hyping up Ireland Wales at the moment they seams to have forgot they have the Italians this weekend. Oh and Thornley was in the montage and he does look like he needs a good wash definitely getting into father Jack Territory.

Scotland have named their team; anyone know when we name ours? Today or Friday?

Scotland team:

Thought it was Thursday?

Pretty sickened that Boss is being brought up ahead of Marmion with the Reddan injury... Maybe I am the only one, but Marmion has played unreal rugby this season and I would put him ahead of Henshaw as Connacht's player of the season. Clearly Joe disagrees.

I think Boss is in good form and would also pick him ahead of Marmion, who for me is still a bit green - also Madigan/Jackson as international fly halves are fairly inexperienced so having an old head like Boss makes sense.