Sam Burgess for England 2015

by EngInAuck Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:31 am

First topic message reminder :

My news feed has just been bombarded with news that NRL superstar Sam Burgess has signed a 3 year deal with an english premiership club.

It is also reported that the RFU paid a significant part in raising the money to ensure his release from his contract, he will be heading to Bath according to reports.

I haven't seen much of him in the NRL perhaps someone with better knowledge could comment on how good he actually is?

The big Questions on my mind are:

Where will he play ?

Does England have room for him ?

Exciting times. rose

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:30 pm

Why why why?????
You England fans fall for the spin every single time, 12trees was the second coming now you all hate him!
England always have a token poster boy who everyone kisses up to for around a season or two, then they fall massively out of favour.
Some suggesting he is the next SBW?
Please give the guy a chance.

Also does Lancaster watch any union games? It looks like he watches league to scout for new English caps.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:36 pm

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Why why why?????
You England fans fall for the spin every single time, 12trees was the second coming now you all hate him!
England always have a token poster boy who everyone kisses up to for around a season or two, then they fall massively out of favour.
Some suggesting he is the next SBW?
Please give the guy a chance.

Also does Lancaster watch any union games? It looks like he watches league to scout for new English caps.

OK ignoring that we all know you are an anti english troll ...Lancaster has explicitly stated this signing is nothing to do with him. As have the RFU.

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:39 pm

But they funded it, which means head hunted.

by ChequeredJersey Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:40 pm

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Why why why?????
You England fans fall for the spin every single time, 12trees was the second coming now you all hate him!
England always have a token poster boy who everyone kisses up to for around a season or two, then they fall massively out of favour.
Some suggesting he is the next SBW?
Please give the guy a chance.

Also does Lancaster watch any union games? It looks like he watches league to scout for new English caps.

Are we falling for it?

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:45 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Why why why?????
You England fans fall for the spin every single time, 12trees was the second coming now you all hate him!
England always have a token poster boy who everyone kisses up to for around a season or two, then they fall massively out of favour.
Some suggesting he is the next SBW?
Please give the guy a chance.

Also does Lancaster watch any union games? It looks like he watches league to scout for new English caps.

Are we falling for it?

it's not bait ,it is my honest opinion. Are you denying the English fan base build one player before they done anything then shoot him down when it all goes wrong?
Also this attitude of your one player away from world domination is just laughable.

by ChequeredJersey Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:48 pm

I haven't really seen the latter attitude. We definitely do build players up as a fanbase before falling on them, driven on by our irredeemable press, and I do not like it. But in this specific case, I think lots of fans are being skeptical about this move. I'd like GB to do well in League too and would rather Burgess stayed there

by lostinwales Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:49 pm

There is no proof that any RFU money is involved this time. There was some in previous times but then they had a policy which backfired.

I think Andy Farrell would have been a success in Union if he had moved when younger and if they could have found the right position for him (and that is a big IF). The way he kicked Sarries to victory over the scarlets a few years back showed a great deal of intelligence and a fair amount of ability. But yes overall switching codes have given us one shining light in billy whizz, a couple of decent or more than decent players in Myler and Ashton and not a lot else

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:50 pm

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:But they funded it, which means head hunted.

Wheres your evidence that they did?

Rabbitohs statement

"The club has had no contact from Sam's management, the Rugby Football Union or any rugby union clubs in the UK regarding a release for Sam Burgess from his NRL contract with the Rabbitohs,"

ESPN report

...the RFU has since denied any approach.

Stuart Lancaster said: "I can't comment on it, other than the fact that I haven't, or no one from the RFU, has approached the Rabbitohs. We'll have to wait and see, it's not for me to decide. He's under contract at the Rabbitohs as far as I'm aware."

The RFU also formally ended their policy of funding league switches way back in 2008, and the PRL is against it.

OK explicit statements to the contrary arent always evidence that something isnt happening but can anyone actually provide anything other than baseless conjecture that it is?

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:51 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:I haven't really seen the latter attitude. We definitely do build players up as a fanbase before falling on them, driven on by our irredeemable press, and I do not like it. But in this specific case, I think lots of fans are being skeptical about this move. I'd like GB to do well in League too and would rather Burgess stayed there

Lets not forget it was the Ospreys fans who started the whole cult over Twelvetrees before he was ebven a regular squad member for Tigers

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:05 pm

The news paper said the rfu helped fund it in the link earlier in the thread.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:11 pm

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:The news paper said the rfu helped fund it in the link earlier in the thread.

What evidence do we have so far that the Daily Mail is right?

by BamBam Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:15 pm

If he could play fullback we could get on with having fullbacks in the back row for England as well as the rest of the backline

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:16 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:The news paper said the rfu helped fund it in the link earlier in the thread.
What evidence do we have so far that the Daily Mail is right?

it is a national newspaper who employ sir Clive Woodward so I imagine they try a bit with rugby journalism.

I personally hope they are wrong because this is such a slap in the face for all the hard working English lads in the English prem who deserve a call up for England.

by fa0019 Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:17 pm

whats wrong with spending money with the hope it improves the team? How else could the RFU spend say 500k and see a significant impact on the pitch? They can't throw money at their current playing staff and expect a huge return as coaches etc are already in place. They can spend it on grassroots but its an indirect LT cost-return scenario.

But if they spend it acquiring players outside of their scope then it will have an impact.... whether or not its positive or negative is up to the player himself.... but he's good enough to succeed in my opinion. He's young enough and versatile enough... something Farrell etc was not.

If he improves the team its money well spent.

Will he be the sole answer? No

But then again neither was SBW... he was on the bench for most of his tenure in union... but he was still worth it.

by belovedfrosties Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:18 pm

BBC Sport were reporting this morning that the RFU were paying half of the £500,000 transfer fee after Lancaster told them he wanted him to play 12 for england. I've just gone back to the article now and its been changed, the RFU are now denying it and it just says

"England rugby union head coach Stuart Lancaster is a known admirer of Burgess and sees him playing at centre if he switches codes"

No idea whats going on but i'm sure we'll find out in the next few days

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:18 pm

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:The news paper said the rfu helped fund it in the link earlier in the thread.
What evidence do we have so far that the Daily Mail is right?
it is a national newspaper who employ sir Clive Woodward so I imagine they try a bit with rugby journalism.

I personally hope they are wrong because this is such a slap in the face for all the hard working English lads in the English prem who deserve a call up for England.

True George North is probably gutted.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:20 pm

belovedfrosties wrote:BBC Sport were reporting this morning that the RFU were paying half of the £500,000 transfer fee after Lancaster told them he wanted him to play 12 for england. I've just gone back to the article now and its been changed, the RFU are now denying it and it just says

"England rugby union head coach Stuart Lancaster is a known admirer of Burgess and sees him playing at centre if he switches codes"

No idea whats going on but i'm sure we'll find out in the next few days

People are going by a few speculative reports made in the Aussie press and reprinted elsewhere, then fact checking them and back tracking in the face of statements form those actually involved.

Even things like the Daily FAil article say "it is understood" and " reports suggest" rather than " we have some form of actual evidence"

by munkian Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:21 pm

There was a huge clamour for twelve trees on here to be fair. And Eastmond..who hasn't even played yet.

by munkian Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:22 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
belovedfrosties wrote:BBC Sport were reporting this morning that the RFU were paying half of the £500,000 transfer fee after Lancaster told them he wanted him to play 12 for england. I've just gone back to the article now and its been changed, the RFU are now denying it and it just says

"England rugby union head coach Stuart Lancaster is a known admirer of Burgess and sees him playing at centre if he switches codes"

No idea whats going on but i'm sure we'll find out in the next few days

People are going by a few speculative reports made in the Aussie press and reprinted elsewhere, then fact checking them and back tracking in the face of statements form those actually involved.

Even things like the Daily FAil article say "it is understood" and " reports suggest" rather than " we have some form of actual evidence"

Peter, there are fairly decent journalists reporting it all over Twitter too.

by munkian Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:25 pm

Obviously NOT Twitter (cant get it in work) but http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/26064628

by ChequeredJersey Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:26 pm

This is all based on the assumption there are any fairly decent Journalists, munkian...

by Geordie Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:36 pm

Id rather stick with what we have....Burrell, Barritt, Twelvetrees, Eastmond, Daly, maybe Joseph should give us a decent centre.

Burrell
Daly

Looks the one...

by munkian Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:42 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:This is all based on the assumption there are any fairly decent Journalists, munkian...

True, but also on the assumption that a rugby coach and his Union are whiter than white...

by ChequeredJersey Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:44 pm

munkian wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:This is all based on the assumption there are any fairly decent Journalists, munkian...

True, but also on the assumption that a rugby coach and his Union are whiter than white...

Both silly. I got told off on CAW for implying that Lancaster MIGHT have not been telling the truth regarding his substitution policy, because the only evidence I had against him was that what he actually consistently does is at odds with what he says!

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:45 pm

munkian wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:This is all based on the assumption there are any fairly decent Journalists, munkian...

True, but also on the assumption that a rugby coach and his Union are whiter than white...

To be fair they havent worn the black kits since 2011

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:46 pm

munkian wrote:Obviously NOT Twitter (cant get it in work) but http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/26064628

Lancaster told reporters on Thursday: "The RFU hasn't made any approach for Sam. We don't centrally contract players so it will be up to a club to sign him."
He also said it would be "a challenge" for a rugby league player to make a successful transition into union in time for the 2015 World Cup.

by munkian Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:59 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
munkian wrote:Obviously NOT Twitter (cant get it in work) but http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/26064628

Lancaster told reporters on Thursday: "The RFU hasn't made any approach for Sam. We don't centrally contract players so it will be up to a club to sign him."
He also said it would be "a challenge" for a rugby league player to make a successful transition into union in time for the 2015 World Cup.

Ok, so thats God's given then ?

by ChequeredJersey Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:06 pm

Lancaster also said: "I’ll make the substitutions next weekend (v Scotland) the way I have always done; based on my intuition and the way I see the game unfolding" and

"It (Subbing Care) wasn't a predetermined substitution, but he hasn't played that many minutes between now and the autumn internationals, We felt Lee Dickson would come on and bring energy and momentum to our game, and work defensively as well."

So, yeah, he doesn't ALWAYS say things are that are. He might think he's telling the truth, but that just means he lacks insight, which is worrying...

by dummy_half Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:24 pm

I can't see Burgess making any impact by the next RWC. No matter how good a league player he is (and he is an outstanding one), and how well his physical attributes should allow him to cross codes, he has no significant RU experience even as a kid. It takes time to gain the instinctiveness required to do the right thing at the right time in Union - my feeling has always been that it needs at least a couple of years, no matter how much playing intelligence you have. Things like deciding whether to join a ruck or stand off in support, whether to commit to taking a ball into and through contact or slow and wait for your supporting forwards - it all needs to be done instinctively without conscious thought slowing you down.

by fa0019 Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:32 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Lancaster also said: "I’ll make the substitutions next weekend (v Scotland) the way I have always done; based on my intuition and the way I see the game unfolding" and

"It (Subbing Care) wasn't a predetermined substitution, but he hasn't played that many minutes between now and the autumn internationals, We felt Lee Dickson would come on and bring energy and momentum to our game, and work defensively as well."

So, yeah, he doesn't ALWAYS say things are that are. He might think he's telling the truth, but that just means he lacks insight, which is worrying...

Lee Dickson and "energy & momentum" don't quite go together. Well as much as a square peg into a round hole does anyhow.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:51 pm

munkian wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
munkian wrote:Obviously NOT Twitter (cant get it in work) but http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/26064628

Lancaster told reporters on Thursday: "The RFU hasn't made any approach for Sam. We don't centrally contract players so it will be up to a club to sign him."
He also said it would be "a challenge" for a rugby league player to make a successful transition into union in time for the 2015 World Cup.

Ok, so thats God's given then ?

Its a statement from someone actually involved which is corroborated by statements form the RFU and the club. Its also stated RFU policy that they would only fund such moves in extreme circumstances.

Id say its stronger evidence that "it is believed" which is the sole source of information for the news reports many of which are now being pulled

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:52 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Lancaster also said: "I’ll make the substitutions next weekend (v Scotland) the way I have always done; based on my intuition and the way I see the game unfolding" and

"It (Subbing Care) wasn't a predetermined substitution, but he hasn't played that many minutes between now and the autumn internationals, We felt Lee Dickson would come on and bring energy and momentum to our game, and work defensively as well."

So, yeah, he doesn't ALWAYS say things are that are. He might think he's telling the truth, but that just means he lacks insight, which is worrying...

Right but youd think hed have a vague idea if hed chosen to ask the RFU for half a million quid to buy a playewr for his world cup squad or not wouldnt you?
If not we have serious problems.

by Barney McGrew did it Thu 06 Feb 2014, 5:08 pm

Jeez, who cares who flung what? If Sam B wants to come over to the light side and compete for an England shirt I'm happy as Larry. The more top players we have to choose from the better we'll get. Welcome Sam!

As for whether the RFU contribute financially - well they can afford it.

by kingelderfield Thu 06 Feb 2014, 5:57 pm

I've just read through the TotalRL Sam Burgess thread and for all the disquiet it obviously has caused, I am still far from convinced this is even close to a done deal. Too many things just don't logically add up, top of the list being any RFU financial involvement.

Obviously time will tell, but am I the only one who feels a little sickened by this whole affair? I don't know, I don’t think I felt this way when Kyle Eastmond came across and certainly not when Jason Robinson signed for Sale. It all just seems ironically a bit 'cheap'.

by dragonbreath Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:29 pm

ebop wrote:He's a big brute and dominates the physical stuff. Can give away a few pens with silly stuff but I rate him in the NRL. Good league player.

I agree an excellent League player. In Union he would have to learn to tackle (legally) and makes a lot of his breaks with the use of a forearm smash. Big Strong man but ready in 12ish months? Its a big ask, he is no SBW

by **Rugby Fan** Fri 07 Feb 2014, 1:00 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10623350/RFU-faces-fast-tracking-row-over-Sam-Burgess-planned-switch-from-rugby-league-to-join-Bath.html

Negotiations were on Thursday night said to be at a “delicate stage”, with a decision not expected until early next week and it is still possible the deal could fall through.

The RFU has not ruled out making a financial contribution as it did previously when players such as Andy Farrell and Jason Robinson switched codes. However, any decision will almost certainly have to be approved by the Premiership Rugby board.

Club sources on Thursday night indicated it could lead to a split vote, with some clubs ready to voice concern that Bath would be given an unfair advantage if the governing body assisted in Burgess’s move.

One RFU source also suggested on Thursday night that a move to contribute to the deal would be “unlikely” given the message it would send to the other professional clubs in the Premiership and Championship as well as the grassroots game.

There is also a sense of frustration at some Premiership clubs that they had not been made aware that Burgess was keen on a move to England, despite making his interest clear to the England management.

Burgess’s representatives contacted a number of Premiership clubs after it made been made clear to him that the RFU would not be able to offer him a central contract following his declaration of a strong interest to switch codes during the autumn. Bath quickly became his preferred destination.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 07 Feb 2014, 1:04 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10623350/RFU-faces-fast-tracking-row-over-Sam-Burgess-planned-switch-from-rugby-league-to-join-Bath.html

Negotiations were on Thursday night said to be at a “delicate stage”, with a decision not expected until early next week and it is still possible the deal could fall through.

The RFU has not ruled out making a financial contribution as it did previously when players such as Andy Farrell and Jason Robinson switched codes. However, any decision will almost certainly have to be approved by the Premiership Rugby board.

Club sources on Thursday night indicated it could lead to a split vote, with some clubs ready to voice concern that Bath would be given an unfair advantage if the governing body assisted in Burgess’s move.

One RFU source also suggested on Thursday night that a move to contribute to the deal would be “unlikely” given the message it would send to the other professional clubs in the Premiership and Championship as well as the grassroots game.

There is also a sense of frustration at some Premiership clubs that they had not been made aware that Burgess was keen on a move to England, despite making his interest clear to the England management.

Burgess’s representatives contacted a number of Premiership clubs after it made been made clear to him that the RFU would not be able to offer him a central contract following his declaration of a strong interest to switch codes during the autumn. Bath quickly became his preferred destination.

Articles been pulled.

by fa0019 Fri 07 Feb 2014, 1:41 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
ebop wrote:He's a big brute and dominates the physical stuff. Can give away a few pens with silly stuff but I rate him in the NRL. Good league player.

I agree an excellent League player. In Union he would have to learn to tackle (legally) and makes a lot of his breaks with the use of a forearm smash. Big Strong man but ready in 12ish months? Its a big ask, he is no SBW

Any player who the aussie's tout as the best forward in the NRL is a seriously good player even if he isn't SBW. Burgess came up against him in the SF RLWC recently.... Burgess looked rather dominant from memory.

by Geordie Fri 07 Feb 2014, 1:55 pm

Then Burgess should stay there and make himself one of the NRL greats.

by fa0019 Fri 07 Feb 2014, 2:00 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Then Burgess should stay there and make himself one of the NRL greats.

I don't doubt that money has a big thing to do with it.... just like the 80s in reverse. Also things like a home world cup is also a major incentive.
People always want to be challenged, sometimes being the biggest fish in the pool isn't good enough.

If he wants to go to union, is dedicated to the challenge and not just the green then fair play to him.

by **Rugby Fan** Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:02 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/26091835

England rugby union assistant coach Andy Farrell believes "warrior" Sam Burgess can make a successful cross-code switch. England league international Burgess, 25, is in talks with union side Bath. "Sam can make an impact," said Farrell, who denies approaching Burgess over a potential move to union during last year's rugby league World Cup. "He's certainly a fighter and a warrior. He's very similar to the likes of Billy Twelvetrees and Manu Tuilagi."

It has been reported that Burgess would be signed with a view to playing in the 2015 World Cup. However Farrell, himself a rugby league convert, believes that would be difficult. "It's a tough ask, but some people can take to things more quickly than others," he added. "Mentality-wise you're trying to get ready for a battle, especially at international level, but the game does take some time to get used to as far as instinct is concerned. I'm not saying that somebody of the calibre of player we are talking about couldn't."

by aucklandlaurie Fri 07 Feb 2014, 11:10 pm

If Sam Burgess does go to Bath, it would happen very quickly before the NRL season starts.

If Sam Burgess does go to bath there will be some at South Sydney who cant wait to see the back of him.

by GloriousEmpire Fri 07 Feb 2014, 11:35 pm

He should at least consider a shower.

by GloriousEmpire Fri 07 Feb 2014, 11:37 pm

Moving right along...what the hell does Andy Farrell know? He's a rank ordinary coach who suspiciously can't see past his own son for England's benefit...nepotistically indulging his own psychological need to live out his own failed career objectives through his son, whilst England's Backline wastes some of the most promising talent for a generation.

by Hood83 Sat 08 Feb 2014, 11:12 am

Are people mentioning Burgess as an inside centre? Hmm, can't see it myself. 6 possibly, but not a back.

I'd be very happy to see him come across but can't see him making a WC squad.I'm a bit torn on the general league players coming across. I do have some sympathy for supporters of the game, it's just not got the money, but it's seems a shame if what is essentially a regional game gets bulldozed by southern moneybags...on the other hand I find it incredibly dreary to watch, so.

by Hood83 Sat 08 Feb 2014, 11:14 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:Moving right along...what the hell does Andy Farrell know? He's a rank ordinary coach who suspiciously can't see past his own son for England's benefit...nepotistically indulging his own psychological need to live out his own failed career objectives through his son, whilst England's Backline wastes some of the most promising talent for a generation.

An excellent question, the answer is nothing.

Do you really believe the 'most promising talent for a generation' comment? I'm not sure that amounts to much given our backs have been pish poor for about a decade. I do think our coaches have spectacularly failed to get the most out of the players we have, but I'm increasingly sceptical that they are good as I'd led myself to believe.

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 08 Feb 2014, 11:27 am

A far more sensible question to ask would be who could possibly know more than Andy Farrell about the challenge Sam Burgess will face if he switches codes.

He was one of the world's top League players who faced the same positional options as Burgess when he made his own switch.

Farrell didn't make much impact in union as a player, but still made it to a World Cup. Given his injury record and limited career, he will have strong views on the best time to look to change codes.

He has gone on to coach club, country and Lions, and, as part of the current England set-up, will have an excellent perspective on what Burgess would need to do in order to have a chance of breaking into the squad.

You don't have to admire Farrell's coaching contributions to recognize how much he would know about the decision Burgess is apparently making.

by Hood83 Sat 08 Feb 2014, 11:36 am

Rugby Fan wrote:A far more sensible question to ask would be who could possibly know more than Andy Farrell about the challenge Sam Burgess will face if he switches codes.

He was one of the world's top League players who faced the same positional options as Burgess when he made his own switch.

Farrell didn't make much impact in union as a player, but still made it to a World Cup. Given his injury record and limited career, he will have strong views on the best time to look to change codes.

He has gone on to coach club, country and Lions, and, as part of the current England set-up, will have an excellent perspective on what Burgess would need to do in order to have a chance of breaking into the squad.

You don't have to admire Farrell's coaching contributions to recognize how much he would know about the decision Burgess is apparently making.

Fair points

by aucklandlaurie Sat 08 Feb 2014, 6:26 pm

Hood83 wrote:Are people mentioning Burgess as an inside centre? Hmm, can't see it myself. 6 possibly, but not a back.
I'd be very happy to see him come across but can't see him making a WC squad.I'm a bit torn on the general league players coming across. I do have some sympathy for supporters of the game, it's just not got the money, but it's seems a shame if what is essentially a regional game gets bulldozed by southern moneybags...on the other hand I find it incredibly dreary to watch, so.

Hoody, I think its because some people saw Sonny Bill switch from a wide playing second rower in League to a second five eighth in Union, I personally thought a blindside as well.

by DaveM Sun 09 Feb 2014, 5:38 pm

I'd have thought Bath want to recruit him to play 13 outside of Eastmond. I'd expect him to take 18 months to 2 years to adapt.

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