England vs Ireland

by adambarney Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:06 am

First topic message reminder :

Could be game of the six nations what do you think?

by Geordie Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:19 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Gibson wrote:Is Courtney Lawes an over-hyped, poor mans, POM? Can he compete with him at the high-end?
Tune in.
...
??

Well he might just be a better 6 than Lawes but considering POM is just a poor man's copy of Wood lets see how he deals with the original before wondering how he compares with Lawes.

+1

by Scrumpy Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:27 pm

Cyril wrote:This POM better be good.

I've never heard so much hype since Lydiate.

Spot on fella

by Cyril Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:31 pm

Mickado wrote:
Cyril wrote:This POM better be good.

I've never heard so much hype since Lydiate.

Do you only watch England games?

Yes. I sit at home draped in the flag of St George steadfastly avoiding anything un-English.

606 is my Bible.

Wink

by **rodders** Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:33 pm

Scrumpy wrote:
Cyril wrote:This POM better be good.

I've never heard so much hype since Lydiate.

Spot on fella

Generally speaking the Irish don't hype their players unless they are fantastically brilliant.

by fa0019 Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:34 pm

For those who rave about POM I would stress they should go back to the video of 12 months ago when England played in Dublin. Perhaps one of the worst individual performances in memory in an Ireland shirt.

Done better since but nothing to make me think he is a giant in the making.

I'd have a fully fit Ferris over him every day of the week (although given his track record its probably a pipe dream now).

by Scrumpy Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:36 pm

rodders wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:
Cyril wrote:This POM better be good.

I've never heard so much hype since Lydiate.

Spot on fella

Generally speaking the Irish don't hype their players unless they are fantastically brilliant.

Come on you do!

not as much as our Welsh friends mind, but you do.

by gregortree Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:36 pm

Ferris has not been the same since Hartley had a nibble censored

of him.

by GunsGerms Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:40 pm

fa0019 wrote:For those who rave about POM I would stress they should go back to the video of 12 months ago when England played in Dublin. Perhaps one of the worst individual performances in memory in an Ireland shirt.

Done better since but nothing to make me think he is a giant in the making.

I'd have a fully fit Ferris over him every day of the week (although given his track record its probably a pipe dream now).

Wholehearted agree with you Fa. Dont think anyone thinks POM is a better player though while he is playing 6 at the moment he is playing the role of a 7 IMO and doing it really well at the moment. Last year POM was very industrious but a bit of a Jack of all trades master of none. Under Schmidt his role is much more focussed and he is massively more effective as a result.

Ferris by contrast is an out and out 6 and probably the best one to ever play for Ireland.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:42 pm

rodders wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:
Cyril wrote:This POM better be good.

I've never heard so much hype since Lydiate.

Spot on fella

Generally speaking the Irish don't hype their players unless they are ~~fantastically brilliant.~~ from their home Province

by GunsGerms Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:43 pm

..........Particularly Munster. Dunnes Stores in Limerick is selling POM pajamas. Think O'Connell bought a pair.

by beshocked Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:55 pm

fa0019 wrote:For those who rave about POM I would stress they should go back to the video of 12 months ago when England played in Dublin. Perhaps one of the worst individual performances in memory in an Ireland shirt.

Done better since but nothing to make me think he is a giant in the making.

I'd have a fully fit Ferris over him every day of the week (although given his track record its probably a pipe dream now).

Really? I thought the worst Irish backrower that day was Heaslip - he kept on dropping the ball. He's bounced back emphatically in this 6 nations though.

by GunsGerms Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:56 pm

Question and I dare to dream: If Ireland beat England in Twickers. Is that the championship over?

Ireland will more than likely beat Italy well in Landsdowne and based on recent history push France close. Could France/Wales catch up on goal difference?

by No 7&1/2 Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:59 pm

It's a pretty big hurdle to get over GG but I would think you'd be on for a slam. France haven't impressed consistantly. Their big ten min a game gets them a lot of points though.

by ChequeredJersey Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:02 pm

If we believed Irish hype on their players, they'd have 3 almost entirely separate teams better than the All Blacks, such is the amount of intraprovincial love

by Scrumpy Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:03 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:If we believed Irish hype on their players, they'd have 3 almost entirely separate teams better than the All Blacks, such is the amount of intraprovincial love

by **rodders** Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:04 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Question and I dare to dream: If Ireland beat England in Twickers. Is that the championship over?

Ireland will more than likely beat Italy well in Landsdowne and based on recent history push France close. Could France/Wales catch up on goal difference?

No the championship is over when...I mean if we beat France.

With so many fantastically brilliant (mainly Ulstermen) players to pick from and the best coach in the history of the omniverse at the helm I think we have one hand and 3 fingers on the title.

by ChequeredJersey Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:04 pm

If POM's benchmark is Lawes at 6, I think we can safely say we have nothing to worry about. Lawes is a poor 6. He'll be playing lock though.

by ChequeredJersey Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:05 pm

rodders wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Question and I dare to dream: If Ireland beat England in Twickers. Is that the championship over?

Ireland will more than likely beat Italy well in Landsdowne and based on recent history push France close. Could France/Wales catch up on goal difference?

No the championship is over when...I mean if we beat France.

With so many fantastically brilliant (mainly Ulstermen) players to pick from and the best coach in the history of the omniverse at the helm I think we have one hand and 3 fingers on the title.

Or in Munster, 2 hands

by Mickado Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:05 pm

Good thing POM can step in at lock so.

by Scrumpy Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:06 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
rodders wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Question and I dare to dream: If Ireland beat England in Twickers. Is that the championship over?

Ireland will more than likely beat Italy well in Landsdowne and based on recent history push France close. Could France/Wales catch up on goal difference?

No the championship is over when...I mean if we beat France.

With so many fantastically brilliant (mainly Ulstermen) players to pick from and the best coach in the history of the omniverse at the helm I think we have one hand and 3 fingers on the title.

Or in Munster, 2 hands

All 12 fingers then!

by ChequeredJersey Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:07 pm

Mickado wrote:Good thing POM can step in at lock so.

Let's hope he does. thumbsup

Nick Easter can play lock. He shouldn't. Much like POM

by SecretFly Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:21 pm

Scrumpy wrote:
rodders wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:
Cyril wrote:This POM better be good.

I've never heard so much hype since Lydiate.

Spot on fella

Generally speaking the Irish don't hype their players unless they are fantastically brilliant.

Come on you do!

not as much as our Welsh friends mind, but you do.

Of course we hype some of our players. Some of them are infinitely hypeable. More Irish players are probably known around Europe (in Germany, Spain, Georgia, Romania etc (anywhere were there is a reasonable interest in rugby and they can get to watch HEC) than English players on the current English team...or indeed even the Welsh players on the current Welsh one. Quite a number of Irish players have earned a reputation....long term.
Should we be ashamed to mention it? (much too much over-confidence from a little potato growing piece of turf in the North Atlantic? - too big for our little Leprechaun made boots? - forgetting the famine and Punch magazine skits of the 1800s? - not knowing our lowly place?)

I always go back to a game between Clermont and Leinster on SKY a few years ago. Before the game all the hype was about the 'superstars' on the Clermont team (no shame at over-hyping there Wink

) - whilst the real HEC 'superstars' were limbering up quietly in their area of the field (winners of two HECs at that point and on their way to a third). I was laughing that the pretenders to the crown were called the 'superstars'.

Go figure. Sometimes you're just never good enough in the minds of some....well, superior minded brains.

by Scrumpy Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:More Irish players are probably known around Europe (in Germany, Spain, Georgia, Romania etc (anywhere were there is a reasonable interest in rugby and they can get to watch HEC) than English players on the current English team...or indeed even the Welsh players on the current Welsh one. Quite a number of Irish players have earned a reputation....long term.

Pure speculation and not fact! Very Happy

by Cyril Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:29 pm

Scrumpy wrote:
SecretFly wrote:More Irish players are probably known around Europe (in Germany, Spain, Georgia, Romania etc (anywhere were there is a reasonable interest in rugby and they can get to watch HEC) than English players on the current English team...or indeed even the Welsh players on the current Welsh one. Quite a number of Irish players have earned a reputation....long term.

Pure speculation and not fact!

I think that if these players are known the folk in Germany, Spain etc probably assume they are English.

by GunsGerms Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:31 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's a pretty big hurdle to get over GG but I would think you'd be on for a slam. France haven't impressed consistantly. Their big ten min a game gets them a lot of points though.

It certainly is a big hurdle but I have a good felling about this one. Englands game plan is highly effective but a little predictable which makes strategy against them easier.

I think Schmidt just like against Scotland and Wales will come up with a plan to nullify Englands strengths and exploit their weaknesses. However, like any plan it is up to the players to execute.

by SecretFly Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:32 pm

Fact.

But there you go...English over-hyping believes the English players are International stars already.

Yes - ...... in English minds. Wink

by SecretFly Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:33 pm

Cyril wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:
SecretFly wrote:More Irish players are probably known around Europe (in Germany, Spain, Georgia, Romania etc (anywhere were there is a reasonable interest in rugby and they can get to watch HEC) than English players on the current English team...or indeed even the Welsh players on the current Welsh one. Quite a number of Irish players have earned a reputation....long term.

Pure speculation and not fact!
I think that if these players are known the folk in Germany, Spain etc probably assume they are English.

Yeah Cyril... cling to it for comfort Wink

by Scrumpy Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:34 pm

SecretFly wrote:Fact.

But there you go...English over-hyping believes the English players are International stars already.

Yes - ...... in English minds.

I have never hyped a English player. fact!

by SecretFly Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:36 pm

But you're only one English man, Scrumpy. I've read the threads and I've certainly read the English papers Wink

by Scrumpy Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:39 pm

With all the hype around this Irish team they have to be favourites for the England game and the 6 Nations. Wink

by GunsGerms Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:45 pm

Scrumpy wrote:With all the hype around this Irish team they have to be favourites for the England game and the 6 Nations.

Well they are top of the table with a large goal difference. They have also not conceded a try yet and only conceded 9 points so far. Not bad going?

by lostinwales Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:46 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:With all the hype around this Irish team they have to be favourites for the England game and the 6 Nations.

Well they are top of the table with a large goal difference. They have also not conceded a try yet and only conceded 9 points so far. Not bad going?

Goal difference? hang your head in shame!

by GunsGerms Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:47 pm

What game plan will England adopt against Ireland? Will it be their usual or will they focus on certain things? What game plan should they adopt?

by GunsGerms Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:47 pm

lostinwales wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:With all the hype around this Irish team they have to be favourites for the England game and the 6 Nations.

Well they are top of the table with a large goal difference. They have also not conceded a try yet and only conceded 9 points so far. Not bad going?

Goal difference? hang your head in shame!

Haha sowee.

by Geordie Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:49 pm

English overhyping?

I think you'll find most of the recent England threads have been critical of picking a host of new players, our props not scrummaging like they have previously...Cole being out of form etc.

Ive seen a few players hyped like Lawes, Billy Vunipola, Care and Brown and rightly so they have played exceptionally well.

But who else has been hyped?

Nowell? He has been praised for a good start to his international career and yet also been criticised for a few issues in the first 20 mins of his first ever game at this level.

Burrell? Again been praised for good lines etc..but also criticsied for lack of pace, that he is a 12 etc..

Twelvetrees has been slated full stop.

Tom Youngs chastised over his basics as a hooker

Even our captain Mr Robshaw is slated as "not being a true 7"... Erm

I can go on....

So where is all this English overhype?

by Scrumpy Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:49 pm

lostinwales wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:With all the hype around this Irish team they have to be favourites for the England game and the 6 Nations.

Well they are top of the table with a large goal difference. They have also not conceded a try yet and only conceded 9 points so far. Not bad going?

Goal difference? hang your head in shame!

Lol

Please keep hyping them. Very Happy

by Chjw131 Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:50 pm

Hyperbole seems to be the watch-word from every quarter!

Let's get this thread finished so we can start another. That will surely prove that this game is the biggest, most anticipated, best game of the six, or even five nations competition ever in the history of sport, the World nay the Universe.

by Scrumpy Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:50 pm

'Tom Youngs' Geordie unless thats the reason Ben is out of the team!

by Chjw131 Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:51 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:English overhyping?

I think you'll find most of the recent England threads have been critical of picking a host of new players, our props not scrummaging like they have previously...Cole being out of form etc.

Ive seen a few players hyped like Lawes, Billy Vunipola, Care and Brown and rightly so they have played exceptionally well.

But who else has been hyped?

Nowell? He has been praised for a good start to his international career and yet also been criticised for a few issues in the first 20 mins of his first ever game at this level.

Burrell? Again been praised for good lines etc..but also criticsied for lack of pace, that he is a 12 etc..

Twelvetrees has been slated full stop.

Ben Youngs chastised over his basics as a hooker

Even our captain Mr Robshaw is slated as "not being a true 7"...

I can go on....

So where is all this English overhype?

Perhaps if we did put Ben Youngs on the bench GF, we might fair a little better in the line-out. That's if he's stopped eating pies yet.

by **Notch** Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:52 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:

So where is all this English overhype?

Same place as the Irish overhype- in the minds of the opposition fans.

by gregortree Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:52 pm

Total rugby, as in Dublin 2003, as in most of the Paris game, as in Edinburgh, mud and blatant Scots infringing allowing.
We hope for a dry Twickenham, the Thames to have subsided, no nematodes in the roots, and decent reffing of the breakdown.
Who is the ref btw?

by lostinwales Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:52 pm

GunsGerms wrote:What game plan will England adopt against Ireland? Will it be their usual or will they focus on certain things? What game plan should they adopt?

Much the same as the last two games I would expect. Probably with the usual number of defensive mess ups and handling errors, but looking really dangerous when they actually manage to string a couple of passes together. I would expect Bully Vunipola to have another huge game. I think you are also going to have to police May very carefully, as he seems quite capable of making a lot of decent players look stupid if given any space

by Chjw131 Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:53 pm

gregortree wrote:Total rugby, as in Dublin 2003, as in most of the Paris game, as in Edinburgh, mud and blatant Scots infringing allowing.
We hope for a dry Twickenham, the Thames to have subsided, no nematodes in the roots, and decent reffing of the breakdown.
Who is the ref btw?

Steve Walsh...

by MissBlennerhassett Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:53 pm

It seems to me that Schmidt"s "master tactics" seem to be 9 man old school rugby - very effective and well executed. Nothing particularly enlightening there. I think England's post modern 15 man game will prove too much. We outplayed France for 70 minutes in their own backyard and should have closed out the game easily but didn't because we are by no means the finished article.
The Irish game will be however the toughest test for England, as any team with good players playing to a simple game plan are always hard to beat.

by Chjw131 Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:54 pm

MissBlennerhassett wrote:It seems to me that Schmidt"s "master tactics" seem to be 9 man old school rugby - very effective and well executed. Nothing particularly enlightening there. I think England's post modern 15 man game will prove too much. We outplayed France for 70 minutes in their own backyard and should have closed out the game easily but didn't because we are by no means the finished article.
The Irish game will be however the toughest test for England, as any team with good players playing to a simple game plan are always hard to beat.

Indeed, as I said earlier in the thread BORING rugby again from Ireland.

by lostinwales Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:55 pm

Chjw131 wrote:Hyperbole seems to be the watch-word from every quarter!

Let's get this thread finished so we can start another. That will surely prove that this game is the biggest, most anticipated, best game of the six, or even five nations competition ever in the history of sport, the World nay the Universe.

I dont know about best game but after some ups and downs this is turning into one of the best threads I have seen on here for a long time. Good quality banter

by gregortree Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:55 pm

Chewie ! is it really Walsh ?

by Chjw131 Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:57 pm

gregortree wrote: Chewie ! is it really Walsh ?

Just ribbing you! Might encourage a bit more comment though. It's Joubert!

by GunsGerms Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:58 pm

I think Burrell has been very good to be honest.

by Geordie Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:58 pm

Please tell me thats a joke....its not Steve Walsh is it???

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