Jared Payne turns Irish

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/26634497

A MIGHTY TANIWHA becomes Irish.   

Good luck Jared

Class act & worthy replacement for BOD.

Brian who?   

Payne will never be Ireland's 13.  It's impossible.  

JP?????  It doesn't work.  Ireland have their code system and Jared would need an "O'" to qualify.   He'll never be JOP so it's an uphill climb for him that I don't see him winning.

More BBC inaccuracy

'Most of his Ulster appearances have been at full-back but recently he has been operating more at outside centre. '

No he hasn't.
The vast majority of his games have continued to be at 15

SecretFly wrote:Payne will never be Ireland's 13.  It's impossible.  

JP?????  It doesn't work.  Ireland have their code system and Jared would need an "O'" to qualify.   He'll never be JOP so it's an uphill climb for him that I don't see him winning.

Jared Kiwi Payne, JKP?

Nah, rubbish, that 'o' is like a halo.

 

His middle name is Aaron so he's actually Japanese...

 

That's actually a good variation and puts him right back into contention. An honourary JAP amongst the POCs, SOBs and ....................... actually, they're a dying breed themselves now with the end of ROG and BOD!

Bit early for this as he doesnt become Irish until November. he wont feature on the summer tour unless they bring him along as a water boy.

Payne is pure class - the guy could probably turn his hand to tight head prop he's so talented....

He and Schmidt have been meeting over the past year about playing centre so he'll be a front runner ( alongside Henshaw and Cave  -who've been getting mentored by BOD secretly) to replace the great man.

Can't wait to see what this guy can do under Schmidt - he could be Irelands Isa Nacewa and will add and extra dimension to the attack.

Oh God................ we're gonna marmalise the ABs in the WC final!!!!!!!!!!

An exciting time to be Irish...................... and em............... Kiwi.

Thinking of which...maybe the ABs should simply annex us or we should annex New Zealand.  You know it makes sense folks - let's have a meeting in Moscow about the technicalities.

Another project player for Ireland...your getting as bad as us!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Another project player for Ireland...your getting as bad as us!

There wasnt one project player in the six nations squad? Project players are only really used as stop gaps or squad players. They are rarely integral parts of the team or squad. There have been very few of them too.

Payne will be 29 if and when he gets capped for Ireland. He is only ever likely to be a caretaker for the 13 position until Hendshaw comes of age.

We shall see....

GunsGerms wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Another project player for Ireland...your getting as bad as us!

There wasnt one project player in the six nations squad? Project players are only really used as stop gaps or squad players. They are rarely integral parts of the team or squad. There have been very few of them too.

Payne will be 29 if and when he gets capped for Ireland. He is only ever likely to be a caretaker for the 13 position until Hendshaw comes of age.

Dont think so Payne has been given a Central contract before he is even qualified - that is a statement of belief in his importance.

He is seen as central to the Irish set up for the next 5 years I reckon.

SecretFly wrote:Oh God................ we're gonna marmalise the ABs in the WC final!!!!!!!!!!

Shut it fly! Don't let the cat out of the bag yet.... at least not until I make it down to Paddy Power ......

GeordieFalcon wrote:Another project player for Ireland...your getting as bad as us!

Hardly other than a couple of caps for Strauss no one has played for Ireland through residency in over a decade and even then the guy concencerned, Andy Ward, still lives her so was a genuine mover not a mercenary.

Ireland are top, or should that be bottom, of the mercenary selection table

geoff998rugby wrote:
Dont think so Payne has been given a Central contract before he is even qualified - that is a statement of belief in his importance.

He is seen as central to the Irish set up for the next 5 years I reckon.

WTF, are you serious? That sends out a really bad message. How do you know?

GunsGerms wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:
Dont think so Payne has been given a Central contract before he is even qualified - that is a statement of belief in his importance.

He is seen as central to the Irish set up for the next 5 years I reckon.

WTF, are you serious? That sends out a really bad message. How do you know?

One of the first things Schmidt did as coach was sit down with Jared Payne to discuss how he felt about taking over the 13 jersey. He's the only player ever to be given a central contract in advance of him qualifying, which says a lot.

I have no doubt he has at least 3-4 seasons in him and will be a key player until well after the RWC.

How do you know this though? Never saw this reported anywhere. If he is centrally contracted already why isnt he involved in squad sessions. You dont have to be qualified to train with the team. Surely if he is being paid to be part of the team he should already be involved?

Schmidt revealed it recently. He's spoken to Jared to see how he felt about playing 13.

His central contract was announced ages ago, it led to rumours the IRFU were pushing Payne towards Leinster, when is Ulster contract expired at the end of this season.

Would like to see Henshaw at 13 in the summer.

Let him, Earls, Cave(maybe) battle out the 13 jersey.

Let Payne and Kearney sort out the 15 jersey.

What would the point be? He'd only be taking time with the squad away from a player who is eligible right now.

He's going to be a key player for us at the next World Cup, there's no doubt about it, but he's not eligible right now so there's no point in him training when he can't step in if there is an injury.

I predict Payne will be starting 13 in the RWC and will cover for Kearney at 15 too.

McFadden or Henshaw will cover from the bench. You can take that to the bank.

There'll be more caps for Darren Cave too but his inability to cover the back 3 may work against him if he can't nail a starting place.... I wouldn't be shocked to see him at 12 inside Payne or Henshaw though....

Payne was always a project player as part of his contract hence being centrally contracted as even the IRFU can see the class he exudes.
Also not only have the BBC been inaccurate about his latest match positions, they claim he was playing at 15 for the Blues when he actually had more time in his last super rugby season at 13. Not only that but he was one of NZ's outstanding 13's in that season. This caused a cafuffle with the AB's attempting to lure him back to NZ.

Notch wrote:What would the point be? He'd only be taking time with the squad away from a player who is eligible right now.

He's going to be a key player for us at the next World Cup, there's no doubt about it, but he's not eligible right now so there's no point in him training when he can't step in if there is an injury.

There is no limit to squad numbers so I dont see how that would be an issue. If we are paying him already surely he should be putting the time in already. You cant just expect to roll up to a squad session one week and expect to be in the team the next week surely?

How about a backline with Olding at 12, Payne at 13, TBowe and Zebo on the wings, Chilli at 15 with Sexton steering the ship. Hmmmmmmm

GunsGerms wrote:

Notch wrote:What would the point be? He'd only be taking time with the squad away from a player who is eligible right now.

He's going to be a key player for us at the next World Cup, there's no doubt about it, but he's not eligible right now so there's no point in him training when he can't step in if there is an injury.

There is no limit to squad numbers so I dont see how that would be an issue. If we are paying him already surely he should be putting the time in already. You cant just expect to roll up to a squad session one week and expect to be in the team the next week surely?

You're missing the point. Henshaw is 13 for the 'opposition'. If BOD has to sit out a training session, Cave is 13 for the 'opposition' and Henshaw covers for BOD. What role is there for Payne? None. There is no point in him being there. The only thing he could do is take over the job of Henshaw or Cave which is pointless as they are the guys who will have to step in if there is an injury. So all he'd be doing is sitting on the sidelines taking notes while Ulster prepare without him. No upside for Ireland, massive downside for Ulster.

As for paying him already, you do understand that the IRFU are ultimately responsible for paying every professional player in Ireland?

GunsGerms wrote:

Notch wrote:What would the point be? He'd only be taking time with the squad away from a player who is eligible right now.

He's going to be a key player for us at the next World Cup, there's no doubt about it, but he's not eligible right now so there's no point in him training when he can't step in if there is an injury.

There is no limit to squad numbers so I dont see how that would be an issue. If we are paying him already surely he should be putting the time in already. You cant just expect to roll up to a squad session one week and expect to be in the team the next week surely?

He's putting in the time on the pitch for Ulster and is in regular contact with Schmidt. That is what he is paid to do. He won't be rolling up anywhere, expecting anything.

Notch wrote:
As for paying him already, you do understand that the IRFU are ultimately responsible for paying every professional player in Ireland?

No they aren't.

GunsGerms wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:
Dont think so Payne has been given a Central contract before he is even qualified - that is a statement of belief in his importance.

He is seen as central to the Irish set up for the next 5 years I reckon.

WTF, are you serious? That sends out a really bad message. How do you know?

Why does it send out a bad message ?
We have a class player who will be qualified next year - Schmidt will pick the best players available to him - that includes Payne.

As to knowing it was in the papers a couple of months back.
Scmidt has also gone public this week saying he is looking to integrate Ryan, Ferris and Payne into the team as soon as possible.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:
As for paying him already, you do understand that the IRFU are ultimately responsible for paying every professional player in Ireland?

No they aren't.

They are. IRFU pay the players, the centrally contracted group comes out of the central budget and the provinces pay back whats owed for the provincially contracted players into that budget.

Jared A' Payne

or Jared O' Payne?

geoff998rugby wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Another project player for Ireland...your getting as bad as us!

There wasnt one project player in the six nations squad? Project players are only really used as stop gaps or squad players. They are rarely integral parts of the team or squad. There have been very few of them too.

Payne will be 29 if and when he gets capped for Ireland. He is only ever likely to be a caretaker for the 13 position until Hendshaw comes of age.

Dont think so Payne has been given a Central contract before he is even qualified - that is a statement of belief in his importance.

He is seen as central to the Irish set up for the next 5 years I reckon.

Oh, so that means Keith Earls must be central to the Irish set up because he too signed an IRFU central contract a few weeks ago. I wonder where that leaves all the others (like Luke Fitz, Ferg McFadden, Jackson, D Kearney, Devin Toner etc, etc. ) who don't have central contracts?

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:
As for paying him already, you do understand that the IRFU are ultimately responsible for paying every professional player in Ireland?

No they aren't.

They are. IRFU pay the players, the centrally contracted group comes out of the central budget and the provinces pay back whats owed for the provincially contracted players into that budget.

I'd imagine the only difference it makes is that those on central contracts are on a bigger wedge than those who are not and probably highly rated by the IRFU high command!

edit: it could also mean that the IRFU are rewarding the provinces financially for producing up and coming players who may not have huge wage demands just yet (like Jackson).

geoff998rugby wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:
Dont think so Payne has been given a Central contract before he is even qualified - that is a statement of belief in his importance.

He is seen as central to the Irish set up for the next 5 years I reckon.

WTF, are you serious? That sends out a really bad message. How do you know?

Why does it send out a bad message ?
We have a class player who will be qualified next year - Schmidt will pick the best players available to him - that includes Payne.

As to knowing it was in the papers a couple of months back.
Scmidt has also gone public this week saying he is looking to integrate Ryan, Ferris and Payne into the team as soon as possible.

I agree with Guns... not sure I like the idea.

Best case scenario for a player qualifying on residency... he moves to a country and after 3 years he thinks yeah they have given me employment, my kids are in school here etc etc.... I owe them and added to the fact I would love to play test rugby its a winner.

Worst case scenario - guy is tapped up as he exits the airport on a contract specifically designed for him to be available in 3 years. When his career ends, he packs his bags and heads home to England, South Africa, Australia, NZ.

A bit like the old varsity match... not really won on the pitch but in by the rugby scouts around the country the year before looking at lads in other uni's around the world, even those with SR or HC experience. Take a bit of the gloss off thats all. Not really in the spirit of test rugby.

I don't see how any bad message is being sent out. The guy has quality throughout and is a huge asset to Ulster Rugby. He has qualities that will absolutely transfer to international rugby and I would stake my mortgage on it. The fact that he would be playing top flight european rugby and eventually international rugby was why he signe on the dotted line. It's poaching talent yes but we'd be mad to refuse on 'moral' grounds.

It's more a case of the whole project player thing being a union sanctioned/controlled system to bring players into Ireland with the aim of them getting Irish qualified. If he had a central contract it just ties the union directly up with it even more.

It's not too bad at the moment because the project players don't tend to be THAT good (a lot of international games these days mean that most decent players are capped by their home country if show much early promise) and are from countries with a surplus of players.

At least in England the players move to England because it's a great place to live, not that they're on a union sponsored programme to come into the England team

I think it should take longer than 3 years though and should at least be eligible for citizenship (not sure about what the UK/NI criteria is, but its 5 years residency in the ROI).

In saying that, I'm happy that Rickhart Strauss got capped, because he seems to have really committed to settling here and won't be hopping on a plane to France for the big bucks now that he is capped.

HammerofThunor wrote:It's more a case of the whole project player thing being a union sanctioned/controlled system to bring players into Ireland with the aim of them getting Irish qualified.  If he had a central contract it just ties the union directly up with it even more.

It's not too bad at the moment because the project players don't tend to be THAT good (a lot of international games these days mean that most decent players are capped by their home country if show much early promise) and are from countries with a surplus of players.

At least in England the players move to England because it's a great place to live, not that they're on a union sponsored programme to come into the England team

There is no difference in English project players and irish ones except that there are more English ones.

HammerofThunor wrote:It's more a case of the whole project player thing being a union sanctioned/controlled system to bring players into Ireland with the aim of them getting Irish qualified.  If he had a central contract it just ties the union directly up with it even more.

It's not too bad at the moment because the project players don't tend to be THAT good (a lot of international games these days mean that most decent players are capped by their home country if show much early promise) and are from countries with a surplus of players.

At least in England the players move to England because it's a great place to live, not that they're on a union sponsored programme to come into the England team

I'd suggest that the many non-Irish players playing in Connacht who maybe eligible for Ireland are expecting to be capped for Ireland.  
Jeremy Manning (came over at about 18 from NZ) I think was Ireland's first project player and was never capped. Think he is playing in Dubai now.

Pete330v2 wrote:I don't see how any bad message is being sent out. The guy has quality throughout and is a huge asset to Ulster Rugby. He has qualities that will absolutely transfer to international rugby and I would stake my mortgage on it. The fact that he would be playing top flight european rugby and eventually international rugby was why he signe on the dotted line. It's poaching talent yes but we'd be mad to refuse on 'moral' grounds.

No one should be given a central contract before they are capped for Ireland. It is a slap in the face to players who have been toiling for years to get one. Also it smacks of favoritism to reward someone before they have done anything. What if he get a long term injury between now and November? Doesnt make business sense.

Nothing to do with favouritism it to do with ability - you given your central contracts to the most important players available.

Next year Payne fits that criteria.
Injury comment is a red herring - what if any player who signs a central contract this year gets injured?

HammerofThunor wrote:

At least in England the players move to England because it's a great place to live, not that they're on a union sponsored programme to come into the England team

Great line.  Shakespearean.  One of his comedies.  Congrats Hammer.

Sin é wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Another project player for Ireland...your getting as bad as us!

There wasnt one project player in the six nations squad? Project players are only really used as stop gaps or squad players. They are rarely integral parts of the team or squad. There have been very few of them too.

Payne will be 29 if and when he gets capped for Ireland. He is only ever likely to be a caretaker for the 13 position until Hendshaw comes of age.

Dont think so Payne has been given a Central contract before he is even qualified - that is a statement of belief in his importance.

He is seen as central to the Irish set up for the next 5 years I reckon.

Oh, so that means Keith Earls must be central to the Irish set up because he too signed an IRFU central contract a few weeks ago. I wonder where that leaves all the others (like Luke Fitz, Ferg McFadden, Jackson, D Kearney, Devin Toner etc, etc. ) who don't have central contracts?

Central contracts are given to players who are seen, at he time the central contract is given, as central to the Irish cause.
Will Earls get an extension - debatable
As to the others players who you list only Hackson and Toner are likely to get a central contract.
Where does that leave McFadden, D Kearney and and Fitzgerald? - with an inferior skill set to Payne I would suggest.

We do not hand central contract to players who give honest endeavour and commitment to their Provinces we given them to Irish qualified, and based, players who are best placed to enhance Irelands performances in the years ahead.

Also lets put this grooming players for Ireland nonsense to bed.
What used to be called Project players were brought over to fill in skill gaps at the Provinces concerned they were not brought in to become Irleand players - that is a very very occassional by product.
Think about it If it was about grooming players for Ireland then it would be a complete and utter sign of gross incompetance.
1 players, who is not key, playing a couple of games over a 12 year period - thats the total sum of Project International appearance.
Does that seem like part of a master plan - hardly !!

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:
As for paying him already, you do understand that the IRFU are ultimately responsible for paying every professional player in Ireland?

No they aren't.

They are. IRFU pay the players, the centrally contracted group comes out of the central budget and the provinces pay back whats owed for the provincially contracted players into that budget.

So the IRFU don't pay every professional player then because the money for the non central contracted players is funded in large part through the provinces individual revenue streams.

They do pay the players, aye. The difference is who stumps up the cash at the end of the day. But there is so much overlap between the IRFU and its branches its not a big distinction. For instance if one province had troubles with its wage bill the IRFU might increase their funding.

In a rugby sense there is no distinction; all players are contracted to the IRFU.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Sin é wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Another project player for Ireland...your getting as bad as us!

There wasnt one project player in the six nations squad? Project players are only really used as stop gaps or squad players. They are rarely integral parts of the team or squad. There have been very few of them too.

Payne will be 29 if and when he gets capped for Ireland. He is only ever likely to be a caretaker for the 13 position until Hendshaw comes of age.

Dont think so Payne has been given a Central contract before he is even qualified - that is a statement of belief in his importance.

He is seen as central to the Irish set up for the next 5 years I reckon.

Oh, so that means Keith Earls must be central to the Irish set up because he too signed an IRFU central contract a few weeks ago. I wonder where that leaves all the others (like Luke Fitz, Ferg McFadden, Jackson, D Kearney, Devin Toner etc, etc. ) who don't have central contracts?

Central contracts are given to players who are seen, at he time the central contract is given, as central to the Irish cause.
Will Earls get an extension - debatable

As to the others players who you list only Hackson and Toner are likely to get a central contract.
Where does that leave McFadden, D Kearney and and Fitzgerald? - with an inferior skill set to Payne I would suggest.

We do not hand central contract to players who give honest endeavour and commitment to their Provinces we given them to Irish qualified, and based, players who are best placed to enhance Irelands performances in the years ahead.

Also lets put this grooming players for Ireland nonsense to bed.
What used to be called Project players were brought over to fill in skill gaps at the Provinces concerned they were not brought in to become Irleand players - that is a very very occassional by product.
Think about it If it was about grooming players for Ireland then it would be a complete and utter sign of gross incompetance.
1 players, who is not key, playing a couple of games over a 12 year period - thats the total sum of Project International appearance.
Does that seem like part of a master plan - hardly !!

Keith Earls signed a new 2 year central contract in January which will keep him with Ireland & Munster until June 2016.
http://www.setanta.com/ie/earls-signs-new-two-year-contract/

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:
As for paying him already, you do understand that the IRFU are ultimately responsible for paying every professional player in Ireland?

No they aren't.

They are. IRFU pay the players, the centrally contracted group comes out of the central budget and the provinces pay back whats owed for the provincially contracted players into that budget.

So the IRFU don't pay every professional player then because the money for the non central contracted players is funded in large part through the provinces individual revenue streams.  

Wigglesworth was interviewed about it - he said that the IRFU finances every player (including NIQ) to a certain amount. The Provinces then have to top them up from their own resources.